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    Help: Guy is not paying for Product

    Only recently I have sold a product for the first time. And being the first time I have had a buyer taking advantage of this.

    I sold a faulty PS3 with getting a new perfectly working laser fitted in. The buyer suggested to pay for the product upon delivery as I have no feedback. I thought that’s fair enough.

    Now the buyer has come back to me stating that he is not happy with the faulty product as he has tested it and all of a sudden the laser is not working and it dates 2004.... I am thinking WTF

    Not only has he open the PS3, taken it to bits and removed the newly installed laser and ran test on it, and stating its been made 2004, but also lets not forget he hasn’t paid for any of this.

    Lets get a few things clear he has opened the product and tampered with it without paying for it. Secondly the key point, the company I fixed it with PS PROS(google them a reputable company) who I paid £82 to get it fixed, state that none of their lasers they import from China have date stamp on it. It only has a model number. The engineers stated that more than likely he has replaced it with a dud one and claiming your one is faulty.

    The guys is refusing to pay and all he says is do you want it returned.
    He has not given me his mobile number nor will ever acknowledge when I have asked for it.
    Could someone please advise, mod team?

    139 Comments

    Do you have paperwork for the replacement parts stating serial numbers, or any internal photos? They would really help you out if you did.
    Also, Google says PS3 machines were released in 2006, so having a part made in 2004 seems very strange.

    A Blu-Ray laser from 2004? I don't think so. If '070404' is the date stamp it presumable means 4th April 2007, although it could be a product number.

    I can't really see how the buyer has a leg to stand on - it was sold as faulty, and the seller seems to have been as honest as possible in their description (although 'brand new' laser probably wasn't a wise choice of words, I hardly think its deliberately misleading given what else was said in the OP).
    Edited by: "jah128" 7th Apr 2011

    Original Poster

    Cheers guys thats what he says 070404 I think. I do have paper work with it, but i am not sure if it has the serial code for the laser will check when I go home, at work now. Is there any way I can get my money of him? Yes I know my choice of words were not good but its my first time

    Original Poster

    Guys also he has opened the PS3 ran test on it apparently, surely that cannot be allowed if you have not yet purchased it?

    I

    jah128

    A Blu-Ray laser from 2004? I don't think so. If '070404' is the date … A Blu-Ray laser from 2004? I don't think so. If '070404' is the date stamp it presumable means 4th April 2007, although it could be a product number. I can't really see how the buyer has a leg to stand on - it was sold as faulty, and the seller seems to have been as honest as possible in their description (although 'brand new' laser probably wasn't a wise choice of words, I hardly think its deliberately misleading given what else was said in the OP).




    +1 The fact it was sold faulty, the buyer is in the wrong.. and also why would he buying a ps3 just for the laser surley it better to buy a new one...

    Not much you can do OP you shoud have had his address..ect, mods will most likly contact him, you can always ask people who he has dealt with for his address check his feedback!
    Edited by: "Guyver" 7th Apr 2011

    It might be wise to cut your losses and accept a return (at his cost); he's making a big deal of the 'brand new laser' part which given you are selling the machine as faulty, have clearly stated its been repaired (and who by) and have stated it failed a month after repair, seems to me to be a way of 'cashing in' - taking a risk free gamble on an easy fix and if he can't, claim it was wrongly listed. Not very fair by the buyer, they should really accept that they bought it as faulty and that is what they received, but in the long run for your sanity I'd probably just let them send it back...

    Original Poster

    jah128

    It might be wise to cut your losses and accept a return (at his cost); … It might be wise to cut your losses and accept a return (at his cost); he's making a big deal of the 'brand new laser' part which given you are selling the machine as faulty, have clearly stated its been repaired (and who by) and have stated it failed a month after repair, seems to me to be a way of 'cashing in' - taking a risk free gamble on an easy fix and if he can't, claim it was wrongly listed. Not very fair by the buyer, they should really accept that they bought it as faulty and that is what they received, but in the long run for your sanity I'd probably just let them send it back...



    Well I accept that, but honestly its not fair on me. As he taken the PS3 apart for all I know he has probably taken the newly fixed laser and replaced it with a crap one. At the end of it, the PS3 is defo worthless now. I assumed I could have got a little bit from selling the hardrive and the laser with it, now with a 40gb hardrive its worthless.

    Original Poster

    Guyver

    I +1 The fact it was sold faulty, the buyer is in the wrong.. and also … I +1 The fact it was sold faulty, the buyer is in the wrong.. and also why would he buying a ps3 just for the laser surley it better to buy a new one...Not much you can do OP you shoud have had his address..ect, mods will most likly contact him, you can always ask people who he has dealt with for his address check his feedback!



    He has a 13+ feedback so thats why I sold it to him without taking any deposit and assumed his genuiene. He probably had the intention of returning it back in the first place hence why he didnt bother paying in the first place. Got his address but not worth driving up 150miles to get £50 as thats how much travel would cost.

    Original Poster

    How does it work if I would like to escalate this? Would Mod team Ban him? I assuming he will post something in his defence tommorrow like to hear what he ahs got to say apart from "shall I return this"

    Original Poster

    There is no such date on the blue ray laser as with the company I spoke with can clarify that. I would like the full money for the PS3 please as you have clearly opened the PS3. Do you have a number I could contact?

    and this is his reply to my last message


    look here for the date t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSfu_D2GeEE179MSK2SxlUkOHDbIF_caCSQuvhYIBpMl8ZbbyWR&t=1
    a random pic of the net not yours, it's on all lasers, nuff said, nothing to discuss, do you want it back or not, end of.

    Original Poster

    Ard21

    There is no such date on the blue ray laser as with the company I spoke … There is no such date on the blue ray laser as with the company I spoke with can clarify that. I would like the full money for the PS3 please as you have clearly opened the PS3. Do you have a number I could contact?and this is his reply to my last messagethis was the last communication I have had with him, forgot to add that.look here for the datehttp://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSfu_D2GeEE179MSK2SxlUkOHDbIF_caCSQuvhYIBpMl8ZbbyWR&t=1a random pic of the net not yours, it's on all lasers, nuff said, nothing to discuss, do you want it back or not, end of.


    tell him you want the money as promised by him for the sale - keep all info on it between you both and if need be take him to the small claims court - if you know you are right then dont let him get away with it.

    1) accept the return
    2) write down serial numbers all all things before you send next time so you can verify that they are infact the same piece of equipment
    3) stop posting private messages
    4) you cant agree to £45 then say "o ok ill accept £46"

    Original Poster

    sn0ttyang3l

    tell him you want the money as promised by him for the sale - keep all … tell him you want the money as promised by him for the sale - keep all info on it between you both and if need be take him to the small claims court - if you know you are right then dont let him get away with it.



    I am right but is it worth the hassle? ideally he will pay as technically he is binded by contract where he did state he will pay once delivery. If not hope MOD bans him.

    Original Poster

    acecatcher3

    1) accept the return2) write down serial numbers all all things before … 1) accept the return2) write down serial numbers all all things before you send next time so you can verify that they are infact the same piece of equipment3) stop posting private messages4) you cant agree to £45 then say "o ok ill accept £46"



    The problem was it did not update on the screen where I was looking only until I logged in again did his message appear. I only posted private messages after the deal was made.

    Ard21

    The problem was it did not update on the screen where I was looking only … The problem was it did not update on the screen where I was looking only until I logged in again did his message appear. I only posted private messages after the deal was made.



    ye regardless you cant accept a lower price then accept a higher price just because you didnt see it......and the clue is in the words "private" message, they are to remain private unless a moderator asks you to forward on the message to them (which adam2050 or ascottishbloke might do)....it does sound pretty harsh but i think that the buyer has seen that the "brand new laser" is broken and therefore not willing to pay...without serial numbers i personally think that your best option is to get a return which the "buyer" should pay for, then take it on the chin and learn for next time.

    Original Poster

    acecatcher3

    ye regardless you cant accept a lower price then accept a higher price … ye regardless you cant accept a lower price then accept a higher price just because you didnt see it......and the clue is in the words "private" message, they are to remain private unless a moderator asks you to forward on the message to them (which adam2050 or ascottishbloke might do)....it does sound pretty harsh but i think that the buyer has seen that the "brand new laser" is broken and therefore not willing to pay...without serial numbers i personally think that your best option is to get a return which the "buyer" should pay for, then take it on the chin and learn for next time.



    Ok I don't think you read my brief clearly. I have stated that the laser was in full working condition when I did get it repaired, and it was also newly replaced. The laser was not broken, it was in full working condition. It was working perfectly fine when it went it for the second repair, there was only a problem with the oxidation build up on the circuit board. Ihe has taken my PS3 apart without paying for it, and now wants to return it after inspecting it. I am guessing I have to take it on the chin, not more I can do!

    Have you reported the thread to the mods?

    Also, follow the rules and guidelines next time you trade.
    Did you post it out to him, or did he collect it?

    If you are forced to accept the return, ask him to put up a FS/FT advert, and see if someone will buy it.
    This saves you having to pay for postage if you sell it.

    Edited by: "thesaint" 7th Apr 2011

    Banned

    I think the buyer is in the right. You advertised it as a brand new working laser.

    1. Its not brand new

    2. it doesnt work

    I'd be wanting to return it to and expect seller to pay for P&P

    A person having feedback is sadly no guarantee of a smooth deal,guy that ripped
    me off got him self some fast feedback 12 i think it was then took 7 or 8 of us to
    the cleaners on avforums,ended up in court but never got any money back!

    csiman

    I think the buyer is in the right. You advertised it as a brand new … I think the buyer is in the right. You advertised it as a brand new working laser.1. Its not brand new2. it doesnt workI'd be wanting to return it to and expect seller to pay for P&P



    Its not brand new, but its history was detailed in the thread. It doesn't say 'working' anywhere, its sold as faulty and described as such to the sellers best knowledge...

    Banned

    jah128

    Its not brand new, but its history was detailed in the thread. It … Its not brand new, but its history was detailed in the thread. It doesn't say 'working' anywhere, its sold as faulty and described as such to the sellers best knowledge...


    comment in thread:-

    This is a complete and utter lie. I have posted the faulty PS3 as requested on the basis that upon delivery payment will be made. The guy has clearly opened the PS3 and tampered with it. I rang the company who fixed my PS3, PS PROS (google them ) a reputable company who clarified to me with all the lasers they fix that there is no date stamp on it. So how peculiar that mine does have one. The engineer even told me himself we don’t use any lasers with date stamp, it only has model number on it. For all I know this guy could have put it a useless one in and taken mine out, and it does seem the case as he is so eager to return it.

    Can I have a mod team to intervene and advise what to do. I have asked the guy several times for his mobile number he has avoided the question. How can you open a product without paying for it and then after tampering with it saying they would like to return it. That’s not on. You paid for a perfectly working laser, and it was brand new when fixed. I have even been kind enough to lower the price because his being a di*k.

    Banned

    OP should take full responsibility for ensuring that the item sent is as described.

    Lets get a few things clear he has opened the product and tampered with … Lets get a few things clear he has opened the product and tampered with it without paying for it.



    Can't see how they could have checked otherwise ?


    This is a dispute about quality and as the seller, you have no proof of what you sent nor can you substantiate your claims with regards to the condition of the laser. Just as we can't comment on the facts as alleged by the seller (no direct comments to date), we'll leave this up to both parties to resolve.


    Finally, always follow the trading advice in full. You shouldn't be sending items without payment unless you're happy to take the risk.


    Edited by: "aScottishBloke" 7th Apr 2011

    aScottishBloke

    OP should take full responsibility for ensuring that the item sent is as … OP should take full responsibility for ensuring that the item sent is as described. Can't see how they could have checked otherwise ?This is a dispute about quality and as the seller, you have no proof of what you sent nor can you substantiate your claims with regards to the condition of the laser. Just as we can't comment on the facts as alleged by the seller (no direct comments to date), we'll leave this up to both parties to resolve.Finally, always follow the trading advice in full. You shouldn't be sending items without payment unless you're happy to take the risk.


    ASB you have to be more tuff on members who abuse this place.
    The buyer has no right what so ever to open the console & muck about inside the console.
    The buyer should have just said the console is not working & i want a full refund.

    It looks to me ASB that your going to be happy for the OP to be out of pocket here & also have a Console returned that has had some stranger removing parts from it with a mallet & chainsaw.
    The buyer should be held responsible for his actions & looks like another person who will Not be getting banned even if you asked him to pay the OP & he refuses.

    Poor show.

    Banned

    WheresMeNuts,

    Let's address this point by point.

    1. The buyer has no right what so ever to open the console & muck about … 1. The buyer has no right what so ever to open the console & muck about inside the console.

    The selling point was the laser - how do you think the buyer could test this ?

    2. The buyer should have just said the console is not working & i want a … 2. The buyer should have just said the console is not working & i want a full refund.


    Now I know you haven't read the thread. It was sold as not working - well an explicit reference given to the fact it wouldn't power on. Your statement just adds to the confusion.

    3. It looks to me ASB that your going to be happy for the OP to be out of … 3. It looks to me ASB that your going to be happy for the OP to be out of pocket here & also have a Console returned that has had some stranger removing parts from it with a mallet & chainsaw.The buyer should be held responsible for his actions & looks like another person who will Not be getting banned even if you asked him to pay the OP & he refuses.Poor show.

    How you can establish any facts escapes me. It's all hearsay or one way at the moment. Had the OP followed the trading rules and advice or even kept a record of the actual items being sent, then they may not be in the position they are now.


    Edited by: "aScottishBloke" 7th Apr 2011

    Banned

    WheresMeNuts

    ASB you have to be more tuff on members who abuse this place.The buyer … ASB you have to be more tuff on members who abuse this place.The buyer has no right what so ever to open the console & muck about inside the console.The buyer should have just said the console is not working & i want a full refund.It looks to me ASB that your going to be happy for the OP to be out of pocket here & also have a Console returned that has had some stranger removing parts from it with a mallet & chainsaw.The buyer should be held responsible for his actions & looks like another person who will Not be getting banned even if you asked him to pay the OP & he refuses.Poor show.



    Thats a bit unfair, theres no way the mods know who's telling the truth.

    aScottishBloke

    The selling point was the laser - how do you think the buyer could test … The selling point was the laser - how do you think the buyer could test this ?



    aScottishBloke

    How you can establish any facts escapes me. It's all hearsay or one way … How you can establish any facts escapes me. It's all hearsay or one way at the moment. Had the OP followed the trading rules and advice or even kept a record of the actual items being sent, then they may not be in the position they are now.



    Once again, the HotUKDeals moderator team display the kind of incompetence myself and many others have come to expect. This isn't so much an insult, but myself being sick of such a poor approach to keeping the trading area well covered. It's disgusting that while you're ever so vigilant when locking threads, suspending people for circumventing the swear filter or bully tactics.. You'll less proactive when helping resolving more important matters.

    I love your reply on the actual for sale thread, "Sort it out among yourselves". Great deal of support you're providing to the members who trade here, rather than considering the situation and making a judgement as what should take place.. Which i'll point out, pretty much any other sale forum or classifieds forum would do.

    Cover the facts:

    - The seller stated the PS3 was faulty
    - The seller also stated the laser has been previously repaired and replaced
    - The seller can also provide evidence as to the repair / replacement of the laser unit

    The buyer is now claiming that the laser is not "new", despite the seller being able to provide evidence to the contrary. Equally, if the buyer thinks that a manufacture stamp proves this, he is sorely mistaken.

    Most know that any repair will likely be made up of unused parts, which could of been manufactured at any point. A Western Digital HDD manufactured in 2008 and sat on a shelf in Currys, is no less new than a Western Digital HDD manufactured in 2010 and of the same model when sat right next to it.

    If the seller can provide evidence of the laser repair, i see no reason why the buyer should not be obligated to pay the seller in full or face a ban.
    Edited by: "spritey" 7th Apr 2011

    The OP stated in that thread it was Faulty & yes the buyer has the right to open it & try & fix it,but it's still sold as fault (not working).we all know the buyer is telling lies because he said 2004 & that's not true as they where not available at that time.
    Why should the buyer have the right to break something up then not pay because he can't fix it (it's like getting a free shot at a item).
    Faulty as I read it is not working & so should mean no refund.
    Would you have asked the seller to refund the buyer had the buyer paid-up first ?

    this might as well be locked

    as usual everyone with a grudge against mods,many who have been a victim of their own stupidity previously in FS/FT have started coming out of the woodwork

    Edited by: "boothy" 7th Apr 2011

    WheresMeNuts

    Would you have asked the seller to refund the buyer had the buyer paid-up … Would you have asked the seller to refund the buyer had the buyer paid-up first ?



    I can say "Yes" to this, as the seller has no proof that it was working when it was sent.

    If this was Ebay, the buyer would've got a refund.

    boothy

    this might as well be lockedas usual everyone with a grudge against … this might as well be lockedas usual everyone with a grudge against mods,many who has been a victim of their own stupidity previously in FS/FT have started coming out of the woodwork


    If you don't like open topics then stay out of the thread Numnut.

    Banned

    Spritey,

    Cover the facts:



    This is just plain silly. How you can define the sellers claim as being fact is beyond me. However we won't dispute their version of events either.

    Quite simply the OP should follow the trading advice in full, ensuring they have fully documented their items prior to posting. Alas, very little if anything has been done.

    If you're just here for a dig, then please don't do it at the expense of members with concerns.


    Edited by: "aScottishBloke" 7th Apr 2011

    thesaint

    I can say "Yes" to this, as the seller has no proof that it was working … I can say "Yes" to this, as the seller has no proof that it was working when it was sent.If this was Ebay, the buyer would've got a refund.

    If the seller said faulty then why would he need proof that it was working.I don't think we both understand each others question ?

    WheresMeNuts

    If you don't like open topics then stay out of the thread Numnut.






    whilst I appreciate you are an expert on getting scammed and attempting to scam people,I would suggest that if you don't like my opinion you should at least try to respond to it reasonably without personal insults which breach the forum code of conduct




    Edited by: "boothy" 7th Apr 2011

    aScottishBloke

    Spritey,This is just plain silly. How you can define the sellers claim as … Spritey,This is just plain silly. How you can define the sellers claim as being fact is beyond me.Quite simply the OP should follow the trading advice in full, ensuring they have fully documented their items prior to posting. Alas, very little if anything has been done.If you're just here for a dig, then please don't do it at the expense of members with concerns.



    I fail to see how the seller has no fully described / documented the item

    - He advertised it as faulty
    - Pointed out the previous laser repair

    If he can provide evidence (which from what he says, it appears he can) that the laser was indeed replaced by a repair centre, then what if anything has he said which doesn't fully and adequately describe the item he sold.

    This isn't a dig - i've made my feelings clear on many occasions how poorly i think yourself and the other moderators apply yourselves to trades gone wrong. You at least have a responsibly to evaluate the facts, inform the seller and buyer of the obligations under the rules applied to those facts and make sure both parties are aware of the possible consequences if not followed.

    The buyer has clearly taken the risk in buying a faulty PS3, as many tend to do when looking for spare parts. The seller clearly stated he was unable to turn on the PS3, he also clearly stated what the repair centre informed him of during the second inspection.

    In answer to a direct question made to the seller, he confirms that the console itself is faulty.

    Is it just the blue ray that is faulty, is it console only eg no pads or … Is it just the blue ray that is faulty, is it console only eg no pads or wires? and as above please upload some pics---------------The PS3 does not turn on completely it just stays on standby. I will be putting pictures up later on today. I am just selling the console.



    Every other trading forum i've used takes such a stance. You mess somebody about during a trade, resulting in loss of money or goods.. You get banned. It's pretty simple. Most then go as far as listing those members details publicly, so if somebody attempts to scam again using a different alias they can be identified by those personal details.

    I choose to make these comments because i hope, in some way, you'll appreciate the logic and actually help a member who is quite clearly in need of your help.
    Edited by: "spritey" 7th Apr 2011

    boothy

    whilst I appreciate you are an expert on getting scammed and attempting … whilst I appreciate you are an expert on getting scammed and attempting to scam people,I would suggest that if you don't like my opinion you respond to it reasonably without personal insults which breach the forum code of conduct


    I like how you come back with a Dig & then claim your a victim being insulted.
    BTW: your Avatar on it's own is worth the Ban,but your lucky Mods on here go easy on trolls like you.

    WheresMeNuts

    I can say "Yes" to this, as the seller has no proof that it was working … I can say "Yes" to this, as the seller has no proof that it was working when it was sent.If this was Ebay, the buyer would've got a refund.If the seller said faulty then why would he need proof that it was working.I don't think we both understand each others question ?



    Can you paste in this thread where he said the laser was faulty?

    He should have sold it as a faulty PS3, and no deviation from this. Then we wouldn't be having this conversation.



    Edited by: "thesaint" 7th Apr 2011

    [quote=aScottishBloke]

    This is just plain silly. How you can define the sellers claim as being fact is beyond me. However we won't dispute their version of events either.

    Quite simply the OP should follow the trading advice in full, ensuring they have fully documented their items prior to posting. Alas, very little if anything has been done.

    Even if the OP never followed the rules 100% like most of us that … Even if the OP never followed the rules 100% like most of us that don't,don't mean he's entitled to be out of pocket.Why is it your taken this in favour of the buyer who has not even had the decency to come on here & tell you the Mods/Admins & seller openly what is happening.Faulty is Faulty & that's why I can see how the buyer is entitled to not pay.If you're just here for a dig, then please don't do it at the expense of members with concerns.



    Edited by: "WheresMeNuts" 7th Apr 2011

    thesaint

    Can you paste in this thread where he said the laser was faulty?He should … Can you paste in this thread where he said the laser was faulty?He should have sold it as a faulty PS3, and no deviation from this. Then we wouldn't be having this conversation.


    hotukdeals.com/for…621

    WheresMeNuts

    http://www.hotukdeals.com/for-sale-trade/faulty-40gb-ps3/884621[/url]



    I said where he said it was"faulty", not "Brand new".
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