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HELP......Penalty Charge Notices issued by "UKPC"

44
Found 21st Oct 2012
as above,i have read about parking eye,but this is different,seems to be parking nose imo.......lol,how long i have to wait so they stop chasing me?i got ticket today.
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Are they council or private? If private, just tell them to **** off. Private clampers/ticket issuers don't have s leg to stand on when it comes to enforcing their tickets, just ignore them.
Don't pay, they will stop chasing after about 2 months.
I refused to pay. They did nothing.

Original Poster
i think it is private,as it's in retail park.
Original Poster
teh arn

Don't pay, they will stop chasing after about 2 months.I refused to pay. … Don't pay, they will stop chasing after about 2 months.I refused to pay. They did nothing.


did you wrote something to them or just ignored it?
The above 2 posters are incorrect, the law has changed now and as such UKPC can now issue a court summons against you and they don't have to prove you were driving. Before the law change you just ignored them, but now ou have a gamble,ignore and hope they don't pursue, if they do they can add costs as long as the court deems the costs resonable. It is your decision
Original Poster
Aeschylus

The above 2 posters are incorrect, the law has changed now and as such … The above 2 posters are incorrect, the law has changed now and as such UKPC can now issue a court summons against you and they don't have to prove you were driving. Before the law change you just ignored them, but now ou have a gamble,ignore and hope they don't pursue, if they do they can add costs as long as the court deems the costs resonable. It is your decision


that is what i am thinking,as the law changed this month,but where can i find about the new law or in my case what shall i do?
DRIVERS have been urged to be vigilant after clamping on private land was outlawed.

Trading standards chiefs welcomed the change in the law but warned motorists still faced a threat from firms turning to lucrative parking ticket operations instead.

Private parking companies can levy fines instead of using clamps – and now have the right to track drivers down through the DVLA to force them to pay up.


Birmingham City Council’s trading standards team urged motorists to make themselves aware of the new rules and to contact the new Parking on Private Land Appeals’ Service if they felt they had been wrongly fined.



Read More birminghammail.net/new…94/
In essence the tickets are now legally enforceable in court as you agreed to the t+c when you parked there, your only decision is if you want to risk them not taking you to court, but as I said they can add costs


You will still get many people say ignore it, and my instinct is to say that as well, but be prepared to end up with a large fine if they do indeed take you to court, it all comes down to whether they think taking you to court is worth it, a roll of the dice
Edited by: "Aeschylus" 21st Oct 2012
Aeschylus

The above 2 posters are incorrect, the law has changed now and as such … The above 2 posters are incorrect, the law has changed now and as such UKPC can now issue a court summons against you and they don't have to prove you were driving. Before the law change you just ignored them, but now ou have a gamble,ignore and hope they don't pursue, if they do they can add costs as long as the court deems the costs resonable. It is your decision



They could always take you to court, they never did.
Things wont change.

I wouldn't pay and would continue not to.
Original Poster
Aeschylus

In essence the tickets are now legally enforceable in court as you agreed … In essence the tickets are now legally enforceable in court as you agreed to the t+c when you parked there, your only decision is if you want to risk them not taking you to court, but as I said they can add costs


if they take me to court and win,will that be a criminal offence stick on my life for ever?
jini will help
I work for a car and van hire company, and have just advised my branches to take this seriously - private car parks now have the legal authority to recover fees from the registered keeper of the vehicle should the fine not be paid within 28 days, but as stated above, clamping and/or towing on private land is now an offence.

As with parking tickets, you will have a certain amount of time to notify the private car park of the your details, in this case, 28 days. If you don’t provide the information, then you or the registered owner will become liable for the parking fines.
addjon

if they take me to court and win,will that be a criminal offence stick on … if they take me to court and win,will that be a criminal offence stick on my life for ever?



No, its a Civil matter dealt with in Civil courts.
Original Poster
eayragt

No, its a Civil matter dealt with in Civil courts.


thanks
teh arn

They could always take you to court, they never did.Things wont change.I … They could always take you to court, they never did.Things wont change.I wouldn't pay and would continue not to.



They never did as they had to prove you were driving, they no longer have to, now the ticket is with the registered keeper. Trust me it wont be long before ty see a news story where someone gets a £500 fine imposed by the courts
Original Poster
plumfin

I work for a car and van hire company, and have just advised my branches … I work for a car and van hire company, and have just advised my branches to take this seriously - private car parks now have the legal authority to recover fees from the registered keeper of the vehicle should the fine not be paid within 28 days, but as stated above, clamping and/or towing on private land is now an offence. As with parking tickets, you will have a certain amount of time to notify the private car park of the your details, in this case, 28 days. If you don’t provide the information, then you or the registered owner will become liable for the parking fines.


so after 28 days,will the amount be lower one or the higher?
No you have 28 days to tell them who was driving, if they have offered you a 50% discount for paying within 14 days I would seriously consider doing that, IF you are not prepared to go to court
Banned
Aeschylus

They never did as they had to prove you were driving, they no longer have … They never did as they had to prove you were driving, they no longer have to, now the ticket is with the registered keeper. Trust me it wont be long before ty see a news story where someone gets a £500 fine imposed by the courts

No private company is going to waste their time taking someone yo court over a £50 ticket, it'll more than likely cost them more than that in court fees.
roum89

No private company is going to waste their time taking someone yo court … No private company is going to waste their time taking someone yo court over a £50 ticket, it'll more than likely cost them more than that in court fees.



Exactly....... So you are saying you would 100% risk it, as they are allowed to add charges, as long as the court feels they are reasonable.

You either gamble or you don't, my logic is I would rather pay £30 than £300
As Aeschylus says, treat this like a speeding ticket. They will probably offer a discount for early payment, but after a certain amount of time, this will increase.

I have actually seen them try to take us to court, as registered owners of the vehicles where one of our branches played silly buggers and didn't reply with the renter's details, so you can't be sure they won't take action.
Oh OP I may have great news, for the ticket to be enforceable they have to be signed up to the new parking authority, they may not be so check that before you pay, if they are not signed up throw the ticket in the bin
Original Poster
Aeschylus

Exactly....... So you are saying you would 100% risk it, as they are … Exactly....... So you are saying you would 100% risk it, as they are allowed to add charges, as long as the court feels they are reasonable.You either gamble or you don't, my logic is I would rather pay £30 than £300


it is 50 or 90 pound in my case.
plumfin

As Aeschylus says, treat this like a speeding ticket. They will probably … As Aeschylus says, treat this like a speeding ticket. They will probably offer a discount for early payment, but after a certain amount of time, this will increase. I have actually seen them try to take us to court, as registered owners of the vehicles where one of our branches played silly buggers and didn't reply with the renter's details, so you can't be sure they won't take action.



Good advice, the problem with this and other forums you will always get people acting with bravado that they will never pay, easy to say when it is not their ticket, the fact remains unless you are happy to pay a large fine paying 30 quid is a much easier way out....
Aeschylus

They never did as they had to prove you were driving, they no longer have … They never did as they had to prove you were driving, they no longer have to, now the ticket is with the registered keeper. Trust me it wont be long before ty see a news story where someone gets a £500 fine imposed by the courts



Yes but nothing has essentially changed. They still have no legal right for you to disclose the driver details.

So they send you (as the registered keeper) a summons to attend court (this is the new legal bit). You arrive. "Are you the registered keeper" "Yes". "Were you the driver at the time" "No". "Who was driving at the time" "I'm not obliged under law to answer that question".

So they have no evidence as to who the driver was.



addjon

it is 50 or 90 pound in my case.



Look I can not tell you what to do, however if they are signed up to the new parking authority I woould probably pay it as I am a chicken and would to want a massive fine later on, as they may convince the judge of some hideous charges, but others on here have said ignore it, only you cand decide
GAVINLEWISHUKD

Yes but nothing has essentially changed. They still have no legal right … Yes but nothing has essentially changed. They still have no legal right for you to disclose the driver details. So they send you (as the registered keeper) a summons to attend court (this is the new legal bit). You arrive. "Are you the registered keeper" "Yes". "Were you the driver at the time" "No". "Who was driving at the time" "I'm not obliged under law to answer that question". So they have no evidence as to who the driver was.



Sorry mate, you are wrong, if you do not disclose who was driving the registered keeper becomes automatically liable regardless if you refuse to answer, this is the big change
Edited by: "Aeschylus" 21st Oct 2012
Here is the official text from a site that studied the new law


There will no longer be any ‘get out’. Vehicle keepers sent private parking charge notices will be legally liable either to identify the driver responsible or to make the payment.
Sorry op UKPC have signed up to the new body
Aeschylus

Sorry mate, you are wrong, if you do not disclose who was driving the … Sorry mate, you are wrong, if you do not disclose who was driving the registered keeper becomes automatically liable regardless if you refuse to answer, this is the big change



No you are wrong. Under the new legislation if you ignore it you as the registered keeper become liable (accept blame in your absence). But there is nothing to stop you going to court (as above). This will never change it is the essence of our legal system. It's what divides the criminal and civil court systems.
Original Poster
Aeschylus

Sorry op UKPC have signed up to the new body


so you say they are legit?
GAVINLEWISHUKD

No you are wrong. Under the new legislation if you ignore it you as the … No you are wrong. Under the new legislation if you ignore it you as the registered keeper become liable (accept blame in your absence). But there is nothing to stop you going to court (as above). This will never change it is the essence of our legal system. It's what divides the criminal and civil court systems.



That makes no sense, so you are saying go to court and refuse to answer who was driving and you think the judge will side with you? Of course you have the right not to answer, but the law clearly states the registered keeper becomes liable and when you refuse to answer the judge on who was driving he is bound by law to award the fine on the registered keeper, surely?

I think your idea is risky to say the least
Edited by: "Aeschylus" 21st Oct 2012
addjon

so you say they are legit?



Yes mate, so it is over to you, either pay or risk it.. Next time just don't park there. It would not hurt if you can getting hold of citizens advice, but I have read up on this a fair bit, and it does simply come down to, do you think they will take you to court, many think not, many think yes
Edited by: "Aeschylus" 21st Oct 2012
Original Poster
well then shall i appeal, saying something.lol
Original Poster
i got this from MSE
"The militant approach
From this point on, we're in negotiation territory.

If you don't want to use the independent appeals service, you can take the militant approach by stating in no uncertain terms you reject the charge and politely state you won't enter into any further correspondence.

Remember, BPA members CAN find owners' contact details via the DVLA, meaning you'll probably get a letter if you don't pay or appeal - so strike first.

Write to dispute the ticket, though some militant campaigners suggest you ignore the invoice completely. Importantly, in any correspondence...

Don't state you're 'appealing', merely that you're refusing to pay.

Effectively, a ticket from a private firm is an invoice as, in their words, by overstaying your welcome on their land you have agreed to pay a particular sum. By stating you are appealing, it gives unnecessary legitimacy to the ticket.

If you chose to reply, from this point on we're in negotiation territory - we've no feedback on using this method instead of following the new appeals system.

You need to make it realise you're going to be hard work, and it isn't going to get the money from you without the time and expense of court action. To put your mind at rest, as there's no credit involved, it can't hit your credit rating either (unless in the extreme circumstance you refuse to pay a court order).

A parking company has NO POWER to force you to pay an invoice unless it first chooses to take you to court, which is a hassle, and then it needs to win the case which is by no means certain. Find full info and template letters below."
Excellent idea, also dropping the letter you are unemployed I reckon. Lol they will definitely think what's the point also the UKPC in my town say all parking fines are donated to charity, if that is the case where you are I don't think they will bother, as what's the point for them if it all goes to charity
Edited by: "Aeschylus" 21st Oct 2012
Aeschylus

That makes no sense, so you are saying go to court and refuse to answer … That makes no sense, so you are saying go to court and refuse to answer who was driving and you think the judge will side with you? Of course you have the right not to answer, but the law clearly states the registered keeper becomes liable and when you refuse to answer the judge on who was driving he is bound by law to award the fine on the registered keeper, surely?I think your idea is risky to say the least



No. You now have 3 options. Pay the ticket, inform them (ticket company) of whom was driving or attend court. Then it will say something like 'If you fail to disclose the driver details you as the registered keeper will become liable" On this 99% of people will pay.

So before where you ignored it and they did nothing. Now if you ignore it they apply to the court saying you by not replying have accepted liability and issue a fine based on that. That is the loophole that has been closed. Between people paying and not wanting to go to court that will cover 99.9% of their business.

I suspect that the tiny number that do attempt to go to court will be dropped by the parking firms as not worth the investment in time.
So anyway to answer the ops question. They will stop chasing you pretty quickly as they will apply to the court and you will get fined as the registered keeper by ignoring it.
Original Poster
GAVINLEWISHUKD

So anyway to answer the ops question. They will stop chasing you pretty … So anyway to answer the ops question. They will stop chasing you pretty quickly as they will apply to the court and you will get fined as the registered keeper by ignoring it.


as reg keeper will i get big fine or same reduced one?
They are allowed to apply for "resonable costs" again how you define reasonable is open to question, court costs etc would be a given
Edited by: "Aeschylus" 21st Oct 2012
I have subscribed OP, so please keep us updated if you decide not to pay, as you will be a bit of a test case for us all

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