Home heating

38
Posted 17th Dec 2019
Hi people,

What is the most efficient/economical electric heater for keeping a room warm during these cold times?

I have tried oil filled radiator but they take too long to heat up the room. Also tried halogen heater which was not too bad but is there anything better/cheaper to use?

Thanks
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I would have thought oil filled heater with a timer and thermometer would have been spot on.

Because it takes a while to heat up you just get it to come on early. You also get it to switch off early as it holds it heat.
oil filled will be most efficenet for keeping it hot and staying hot for longer.
But halogen provides more instant heat and then pretty much stops when you turn it off.

So depends what you want, heat for hours or heat for minutes.
It doesn't quite work like that sadly. Economy and efficiency are mutually exclusive. You tend to get out, whatever you put in with 'electrical' heating.

As you have found out, oil filled are better at storing and slowly distributing the heat. Same with electrical storage heating. Halogen is a more 'direct' instant heat. Lovely for a quick warm up but doesn't distribute the heat over a large area for long enough. Hence people say "as soon as you turn them off, you're cold!" I do own one myself for a speedy heat though...

Gas central heating will always be the nicest heating for a home on a 'distribution' level. That and a real wood/coal fire, that is. I have owned one of those portable gas heaters which did a lovely job of warming the room up but it's not cheap to run.

There's no easy answer I'm afraid. More 'wooly-pullies' certainly helps though!

Kind regards, Phsy.
Phsycronix17/12/2019 09:26

It doesn't quite work like that sadly. Economy and efficiency are mutually …It doesn't quite work like that sadly. Economy and efficiency are mutually exclusive. You tend to get out, whatever you put in with 'electrical' heating.As you have found out, oil filled are better at storing and slowly distributing the heat. Same with electrical storage heating. Halogen is a more 'direct' instant heat. Lovely for a quick warm up but doesn't distribute the heat over a large area for long enough. Hence people say "as soon as you turn them off, you're cold!" I do own one myself for a speedy heat though...Gas central heating will always be the nicest heating for a home on a 'distribution' level. That and a real wood/coal fire, that is. I have owned one of those portable gas heaters which did a lovely job of warming the room up but it's not cheap to run.There's no easy answer I'm afraid. More 'wooly-pullies' certainly helps though!Kind regards, Phsy.


Thanks.

I do have central heating but the radiator in the room is very small, probably about 50cm in length. Not sure if it can be replaced with a longer one.
DevilsReaper17/12/2019 09:35

Thanks.I do have central heating but the radiator in the room is very …Thanks.I do have central heating but the radiator in the room is very small, probably about 50cm in length. Not sure if it can be replaced with a longer one.



No doubt it can - but that all costs money doesn't it

Google blurb:

"Electric heaters are all considered to be 100% efficient (i.e. they turn all the electricity they use into heat), but some are more expensive to run than others because they provide more heat. The cheapest are halogen heaters and oil-filled radiators; the most expensive are bar fires and fan heaters."


The idea being that whatever money you spend on electrical heat - that's what you will get out once it's converted. Of course, the reality of that is the battle to keep and maximize that heat, once we've paid for it. Extra loft insulation, keeping doors and windows closed as much as poss (draught excluders (door sausage!) are a must!) to circulate the heat.
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deleted1447778
DevilsReaper17/12/2019 09:35

Thanks.I do have central heating but the radiator in the room is very …Thanks.I do have central heating but the radiator in the room is very small, probably about 50cm in length. Not sure if it can be replaced with a longer one.


Shouldn't be a problem at all to have it replaced, that would be your most cost effective solution in the long run
DevilsReaper17/12/2019 09:35

Thanks.I do have central heating but the radiator in the room is very …Thanks.I do have central heating but the radiator in the room is very small, probably about 50cm in length. Not sure if it can be replaced with a longer one.


Have a look at the type of radiator it is. You typically have 3 types, a 11 has one main panel with one set of 'fins' attached, a 21 with have 2 solid panels with a set of fins between and a 22 will have 2 panels with 2 sets of fins. If you have a 50cm type 11, you could get near to double the output by upgrading to a 50cm type 22.
Wickes for example have a 50cm X 60cm type 11 that gives out 1651 BTU, and the 50cm X 60cm type 22 gives 2980 BTU - close to double.

Also, if you have the height, you could also get a taller radiator that fits between the current pipes and gives more heat.

The only issue with going from a type 11 to 22 is they are slightly deeper and if your pipes have no movement in them, you would need someone to adapt them accordingly.
deleted144777817/12/2019 10:02

Shouldn't be a problem at all to have it replaced, that would be your most …Shouldn't be a problem at all to have it replaced, that would be your most cost effective solution in the long run


would be the best solution but i have wood flooring, it would have to come out to replace the radiator.
deleted144777817/12/2019 10:02

Shouldn't be a problem at all to have it replaced, that would be your most …Shouldn't be a problem at all to have it replaced, that would be your most cost effective solution in the long run


don't think there are any pipes to going further along the wall and the
Phsycronix17/12/2019 09:45

No doubt it can - but that all costs money doesn't it Google …No doubt it can - but that all costs money doesn't it Google blurb:"Electric heaters are all considered to be 100% efficient (i.e. they turn all the electricity they use into heat), but some are more expensive to run than others because they provide more heat. The cheapest are halogen heaters and oil-filled radiators; the most expensive are bar fires and fan heaters."The idea being that whatever money you spend on electrical heat - that's what you will get out once it's converted. Of course, the reality of that is the battle to keep and maximize that heat, once we've paid for it. Extra loft insulation, keeping doors and windows closed as much as poss (draught excluders (door sausage!) are a must!) to circulate the heat.


yes and alot of mess
rmjowen17/12/2019 10:25

Wickes for example have a 50cm X 60cm type 11 that gives out 1651 BTU, and …Wickes for example have a 50cm X 60cm type 11 that gives out 1651 BTU, and the 50cm X 60cm type 22 gives 2980 BTU - close to double.Also, if you have the height, you could also get a taller radiator that fits between the current pipes and gives more heat.The only issue with going from a type 11 to 22 is they are slightly deeper and if your pipes have no movement in them, you would need someone to adapt them accordingly.


Its for the living room, taller radiator would look out of place. I currently have a 21. Not sure i'd get much more if i upgrade to a 22 same size
DevilsReaper17/12/2019 10:55

would be the best solution but i have wood flooring, it would have to come …would be the best solution but i have wood flooring, it would have to come out to replace the radiator.don't think there are any pipes to going further along the wall and the


replace the radiator. no point in getting an electric heater when you have access to a radiator. the pipe work need to be changed to accommodate a bigger radiator. we had most of the radiators in our house replaced recently and we have definitely felt the difference.

you don't need the wooden floors lifted, the pipework can be done with minimum damage to the wooden floor if the plumber takes his time. we had a new radiator installed where the pipework had to go under a tiled floor and the plumber did not need to lift the tiles to get the pipe through. it took him a long time to do but he did it. he didn't factor in how long a job like that was going to take and it took him a lot longer than he had expected so i gained as he had already quoted for the job and so could not increase his price.

he tried to say that he couldn't do it without lifting a couple of tiles when he realised how difficult the job is but we asked that he doesn't do this and look at getting the pipework through as originally planned.

get a long type 21 radiator. type 22 looks too chunky for the living room.
mutley117/12/2019 12:48

replace the radiator. no point in getting an electric heater when you …replace the radiator. no point in getting an electric heater when you have access to a radiator. the pipe work need to be changed to accommodate a bigger radiator. we had most of the radiators in our house replaced recently and we have definitely felt the difference.you don't need the wooden floors lifted, the pipework can be done with minimum damage to the wooden floor if the plumber takes his time. we had a new radiator installed where the pipework had to go under a tiled floor and the plumber did not need to lift the tiles to get the pipe through. it took him a long time to do but he did it. he didn't factor in how long a job like that was going to take and it took him a lot longer than he had expected so i gained as he had already quoted for the job and so could not increase his price. he tried to say that he couldn't do it without lifting a couple of tiles when he realised how difficult the job is but we asked that he doesn't do this and look at getting the pipework through as originally planned.get a long type 21 radiator. type 22 looks too chunky for the living room.


Thanks for the input, how much did that set you back? And how many radiators got replaced?
DevilsReaper17/12/2019 10:59

Its for the living room, taller radiator would look out of place. I …Its for the living room, taller radiator would look out of place. I currently have a 21. Not sure i'd get much more if i upgrade to a 22 same size


Double radiator?
DevilsReaper17/12/2019 13:01

Thanks for the input, how much did that set you back? And how many …Thanks for the input, how much did that set you back? And how many radiators got replaced?


we moved into the house last year. i got the boiler replaced as it was a standard system boiler and i wanted a combi boiler. the house was always cold and we thought we had made a mistake with the boiler in not choosing the right boiler capacity but we had bought a boiler with the capacity that the gas engineer had advised.

the labour cost was £550 for 6 radiators, one of which was a new install under the tiled floor. all the radiators needed new pipework. i have had similar work done at another property where 7 radiators were replaced. it should work out to be £70 - £80 a radiator if it needs new pipework. if you want it done with minimal damage to the wooden floor then i would expect labour cost for the living room radiator to be about £150 - £200 as it takes a while to do without disturbing the floor or if the plumber remove a few wooden planks very carefully and then put it back.

i found the majority of the cost was not the labour, but the radiators themselves. i got very big radiators so they were very expensive. i managed to get the radiators for my house from wickes when they were on sale so saved a few hundred quid. i would recommend kudox premium radiators from screwfix as they are slimmer than the wickes radiators and they look more attractive, or less ugly if you like.
mutley117/12/2019 13:28

we moved into the house last year. i got the boiler replaced as it was a …we moved into the house last year. i got the boiler replaced as it was a standard system boiler and i wanted a combi boiler. the house was always cold and we thought we had made a mistake with the boiler in not choosing the right boiler capacity but we had bought a boiler with the capacity that the gas engineer had advised.the labour cost was £550 for 6 radiators, one of which was a new install under the tiled floor. all the radiators needed new pipework. i have had similar work done at another property where 7 radiators were replaced. it should work out to be £70 - £80 a radiator if it needs new pipework. if you want it done with minimal damage to the wooden floor then i would expect labour cost for the living room radiator to be about £150 - £200 as it takes a while to do without disturbing the floor or if the plumber remove a few wooden planks very carefully and then put it back.i found the majority of the cost was not the labour, but the radiators themselves. i got very big radiators so they were very expensive. i managed to get the radiators for my house from wickes when they were on sale so saved a few hundred quid. i would recommend kudox premium radiators from screwfix as they are slimmer than the wickes radiators and they look more attractive, or less ugly if you like.


Thats not a bad price. Rather pay a little more to get radiator replaced, will be better for the long run. Thanks for all the help. I will discuss this with the mrs and see what she thinks
DevilsReaper17/12/2019 13:49

Thats not a bad price. Rather pay a little more to get radiator replaced, …Thats not a bad price. Rather pay a little more to get radiator replaced, will be better for the long run. Thanks for all the help. I will discuss this with the mrs and see what she thinks


i would really recommend a new radiator. since we have had new radiators installed the house is so much warmer and it was well worth the money spent. any electric heaters will cost a lot of money to run if you want a decent one and they will never be as efficient as a radiator. it seems a shame not to use an existing facility that you already have.

we had a huge double radiator in the living room but it was an old style one so although it got very hot it didn't really heat the room up enough. we also have a gas fire place in the living room, which we had to use on top of the radiator but even that was not that great at heating the living room as the room is quite big with huge windows so it is not an easy room to heat up.

since the new radiator was installed i now find the room tends to get too hot and i have to go and turn the heating off. a new radiator can make a lot of difference. make sure when you get a quote from the plumber that you ask he includes re-balancing the system when the new radiator has been installed as this will give you the most efficient heat from the new radiator.
mutley117/12/2019 15:11

i would really recommend a new radiator. since we have had new radiators …i would really recommend a new radiator. since we have had new radiators installed the house is so much warmer and it was well worth the money spent. any electric heaters will cost a lot of money to run if you want a decent one and they will never be as efficient as a radiator. it seems a shame not to use an existing facility that you already have.we had a huge double radiator in the living room but it was an old style one so although it got very hot it didn't really heat the room up enough. we also have a gas fire place in the living room, which we had to use on top of the radiator but even that was not that great at heating the living room as the room is quite big with huge windows so it is not an easy room to heat up.since the new radiator was installed i now find the room tends to get too hot and i have to go and turn the heating off. a new radiator can make a lot of difference. make sure when you get a quote from the plumber that you ask he includes re-balancing the system when the new radiator has been installed as this will give you the most efficient heat from the new radiator.


Thanks, you have made my mind up. New longer radiator it is.
DevilsReaper17/12/2019 15:24

Thanks, you have made my mind up. New longer radiator it is.


when you get the quotes from the plumbers say that you specifically want minimal disturbance to the flooring as they will need to add in time to do this. they may not have the skill or inclination to do it as it is very time consuming to do a proper job.

our plumber had to measure very accurately the distance and cut the pipe with precision and feed the pipe under the floor without being able to see it and then come up through a small hole that he had drilled into the tiled floor. it took him 3 hours just to get the pipework done for this one radiator.
We’ve got heating issues so apart from throwing extra layer on and get the blankets out the other things we’ve done are: insulation wallpaper, window film and a halogen heater. Yes it does get cold this morning are thermometer read 15c but you just learn to adapt
Obviously way more expensive, but it might be the boiler needing replacing to a more efficient up to date one? We really noticed the difference when we changed our old Ideal Standard one, and fortunately no new radiators or their pipework needed replacing. Previous semi warm radiators became lovely warm ones generating much more heat.
JimboParrot17/12/2019 16:02

Obviously way more expensive, but it might be the boiler needing replacing …Obviously way more expensive, but it might be the boiler needing replacing to a more efficient up to date one? We really noticed the difference when we changed our old Ideal Standard one, and fortunately no new radiators or their pipework needed replacing. Previous semi warm radiators became lovely warm ones generating much more heat.


We looked at a new boiler system and quoted between 7-10k let’s just say a few extra layers and hot water bottles are our way forward
ndyanem17/12/2019 16:23

We looked at a new boiler system and quoted between 7-10k let’s just say a …We looked at a new boiler system and quoted between 7-10k let’s just say a few extra layers and hot water bottles are our way forward


Good grief that is one very high quote. Should be no more than half of that lower figure.
JimboParrot17/12/2019 16:36

Good grief that is one very high quote. Should be no more than half of …Good grief that is one very high quote. Should be no more than half of that lower figure.


It’s because we have 3 floors, hot tank on middle floor and cold tank on top floor. Whole new boiler system, new radiators and pipes. That quote was around 3 years ago and we’ve been living with silly heating for 19 years or so. It’s just adapt and put up with it
Edited by: "ndyanem" 17th Dec 2019
ndyanem17/12/2019 16:40

It’s because we have 3 floors, hot tank on middle floor and cold tank on t …It’s because we have 3 floors, hot tank on middle floor and cold tank on top floor. Whole new boiler system, new radiators and pipes. That quote was around 3 years ago and we’ve been living with silly heating for 19 years or so. It’s just adapt and put up with it


your quote of 7k to 10k is too much to replace a standard system to combi. even in london where labour costs are high and surrey where labour costs are even higher, you would be looking at 5k to 6k for a 3 storey property. the quote you got seem way too high.

you could significantly reduce this cost by waiting for radiators to come on sale and buy them yourself. i did this for my house and saved a few hundred pounds.

having a 3 storey house means you will need a more powerful boiler to be able to pump all the way up to the third storey and more pipework to run up the the floors but it should not be the 7k to 10k mark.
It not crazy. When you have to consider the removal of 2 water tanks and the old boiler which is nearing 30 years old we’re guessing, re wiring, new pipes, 12 radiators, installation, new boiler and to top it off not damaging the property as it’s grade listed
JimboParrot17/12/2019 16:02

Obviously way more expensive, but it might be the boiler needing replacing …Obviously way more expensive, but it might be the boiler needing replacing to a more efficient up to date one? We really noticed the difference when we changed our old Ideal Standard one, and fortunately no new radiators or their pipework needed replacing. Previous semi warm radiators became lovely warm ones generating much more heat.


Boiler is fine, got a brand new one 10 months ago
ndyanem17/12/2019 16:23

We looked at a new boiler system and quoted between 7-10k let’s just say a …We looked at a new boiler system and quoted between 7-10k let’s just say a few extra layers and hot water bottles are our way forward


That is defintely way too high
DevilsReaper18/12/2019 07:45

Boiler is fine, got a brand new one 10 months ago


If you’ve got a new boiler then you shouldn’t have an issue. Good insulation, make sure the radiators have been bleed and you should be fine
All that is done, its just that the radiator is really small
DevilsReaper18/12/2019 07:50

All that is done, its just that the radiator is really small


Can you add a second radiator instead?
JimboParrot18/12/2019 09:17

Can you add a second radiator instead?


Probably not. Current radiator is right next to the door so no space for it
DevilsReaper17/12/2019 09:35

Thanks.I do have central heating but the radiator in the room is very …Thanks.I do have central heating but the radiator in the room is very small, probably about 50cm in length. Not sure if it can be replaced with a longer one.


Yes you can get it replaced with a bigger one probably best solution, or if is a single you can get a q double or triple type heater same size that way you can do it yourself or someone should charge very little as no pipe work really needs changing.
JimboParrot17/12/2019 16:02

Obviously way more expensive, but it might be the boiler needing replacing …Obviously way more expensive, but it might be the boiler needing replacing to a more efficient up to date one? We really noticed the difference when we changed our old Ideal Standard one, and fortunately no new radiators or their pipework needed replacing. Previous semi warm radiators became lovely warm ones generating much more heat.


Probably just needed a good flush or boiler was not big enough/not on maximum heat out put. I don't think a new boiler other than possibly heatup quicker would be the culprit if everyone room is fine it is that room. They can use a btu calculator too check correct size radiator too get.
ndyanem17/12/2019 16:40

It’s because we have 3 floors, hot tank on middle floor and cold tank on t …It’s because we have 3 floors, hot tank on middle floor and cold tank on top floor. Whole new boiler system, new radiators and pipes. That quote was around 3 years ago and we’ve been living with silly heating for 19 years or so. It’s just adapt and put up with it


Still shouldn't be that much how many radiators do you need taking them out if you wanted a conbi you could do your self it's not too difficult too reduce the costs. They probably qouted you a very expensive boiler and even then I suspect the majority of price was labour. For a larger property it probably is better too get it done in plastic piping that will save alot on Labour. Not exactly sure in your property but we got a system off the Mr central heating with 7 radiator's and then bought another 3 separately, cost about £900 plus another £300-400 for pipies and fittings fitted most of the radiators and pipes ourselves and let the plumber fit the boiler for £200 but that was a family friend it usually around £400. So I reckon you should be able get a decent system in for around maximum £4k even these days fitted.
MynameisM18/12/2019 22:35

Still shouldn't be that much how many radiators do you need taking them …Still shouldn't be that much how many radiators do you need taking them out if you wanted a conbi you could do your self it's not too difficult too reduce the costs. They probably qouted you a very expensive boiler and even then I suspect the majority of price was labour. For a larger property it probably is better too get it done in plastic piping that will save alot on Labour. Not exactly sure in your property but we got a system off the Mr central heating with 7 radiator's and then bought another 3 separately, cost about £900 plus another £300-400 for pipies and fittings fitted most of the radiators and pipes ourselves and let the plumber fit the boiler for £200 but that was a family friend it usually around £400. So I reckon you should be able get a decent system in for around maximum £4k even these days fitted.


Because the house is listed we have to follow certain rules so all radiators would need to be replaced for what we get told to have, pipes can’t be plastic it’s a logistical headache so we’ve just learnt to live with it
MynameisM18/12/2019 22:29

Probably just needed a good flush or boiler was not big enough/not on …Probably just needed a good flush or boiler was not big enough/not on maximum heat out put. I don't think a new boiler other than possibly heatup quicker would be the culprit if everyone room is fine it is that room. They can use a btu calculator too check correct size radiator too get.


No it was a floor standing old gas boiler, at least 30 - 35 years old. Today's modern boilers are much more efficient.
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