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Hot water pipe insulation

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Posted 6th Nov
I have two 15 mm hot water copper pipes that run through the garage from an extension behind the garage before going back into the house. I need to insulate the pipes to stop the loss of heat as the pipes are part of the central heating system.

The two pipes run in parallel and are of 2 m in length. Problem is, the gap between the two pipes are about 1 cm to 1.5 cm wide.

I have looked at insulation sleeves for 15 mm copper pipes and they come in 1.3 cm thick or 0.9 cm thick. Therefore I can not put the sleeves on both pipes as there is not enough room between the pipes to allow for the thickness of the sleeves.

Anyone got any ideas what is the best way to insulate these two pipes? I have seen insulating tape but I assume they will not be as good as the standard sleeves?

I was thinking maybe put the standard sleeve on one of the pipes then insulate the other one with the insulation tape. Any better ideas will be appreciated.
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Get a gas safe registered plumber to widen the gap of the 2 parallel pipes and the job's a good'un

/thread
Edited by: "OllieSt" 6th Nov
OllieSt06/11/2019 16:04

Get a gas safe registered plumber to widen the gap of the 2 parallel pipes …Get a gas safe registered plumber to widen the gap of the 2 parallel pipes and the job's a good'un/thread


Hot water pipes so any (competent) plumber, although easiest to leave pipes as-is and just compress the insulation to fit.
one would supply and the other return, you wouldn’t really need to do both or you could cop out on the return line where your losses would be minimal
AndyRoyd06/11/2019 16:09

although easiest to leave pipes as-is and just compress the insulation to …although easiest to leave pipes as-is and just compress the insulation to fit.


What!! Is it really that easy?

Now there's a surprise.

Why didn't I/OP think of that?

/thread.
Edited by: "OllieSt" 6th Nov
Insulate with a suitable expanding foam in a can.
OllieSt06/11/2019 16:12

What!! Is it really that easyNow there's a surprise. /thread.


Well not quite. You'd still need a certified surveyor to sign it off and somehow squeeze it past the local council's jobsworths banging on about building regs.
joyf453606/11/2019 16:15

Insulate with a suitable expanding foam in a can.


Will need a very thin can.
Mr_Gus06/11/2019 16:18

No!!!!


It's the sort of stuff the insulate hot water cylinders with.
joyf453606/11/2019 16:19

It's the sort of stuff the insulate hot water cylinders with.


yes which is a completely different entity, with the JOINTS exposed. If you ever want to do anything with it you are scraping the funk off, no good if you have a leak!
Edited by: "Mr_Gus" 6th Nov
Mr_Gus06/11/2019 16:21

yes which is a completely different entity, with the JOINTS exposed.


Who said there were 'joints' in a 2m run.
Op as others have said, the wall side will compress, important thing is to wrap it, & make it a fast removal job without being hindered in future, a few mega thin zip ties (to be cut in a second or so) or a bit of suitable tape to seal key points.
Edited by: "Mr_Gus" 6th Nov
joyf453606/11/2019 16:23

Who said there were 'joints' in a 2m run.


& If you foam it everywhere the next folk / yourself will never know #diycurse because it will be hard to get at.
Mr_Gus06/11/2019 16:26

& If you foam it everywhere the next folk / yourself will never know …& If you foam it everywhere the next folk / yourself will never know #diycurse because it will be hard to get at.


Put a note on it!
Insulate the garage?
joyf453606/11/2019 16:29

Put a note on it!


I suggest you try using expanding foam around a pipe & see where it gets you in terms of "neat job vs botched job"
AndyRoyd06/11/2019 16:09

Hot water pipes so any (competent) plumber, although easiest to leave …Hot water pipes so any (competent) plumber, although easiest to leave pipes as-is and just compress the insulation to fit.


Or insulate one pipe, then run a stanley blade down the other tube of insulation and cut out a quarter-ish, so it only goes three quarters round the second pipe. Like the bottom pipe in this picture:

38918245-3J0k3.jpg
If you want you can tidy it up with some tape after.
Edited by: "hoojie" 6th Nov
Take one 0.9cm thick length.
Down the inside of the insulation cut half depth length wise in the middle.
Now open the length up, and slide it down the back of both pipes. Cut shorter to fit either side of brackets if required.
Now take thicker, 22mm insulation. Again cut half way through the insulation lengthwise from the inside. Then open and clip it over the outside of the pipes, round the 0.9cm run.
Finally use some zip ties every 0.5m or so to secure.
You can get thermal insulating adhesive backed tape which is very thin.

We had to install some at work two winters ago as we run on an outside fuel tank where there is an exposed pipe running from the tank to the boiler room and the pipe was freezing over restricting the fuel flow.

Something like this - amazon.co.uk/Arm…6BA
Edited by: "psychedelicrenegade" 6th Nov
psychedelicrenegade06/11/2019 17:05

You can get thermal insulating adhesive backed tape which is very thin.We …You can get thermal insulating adhesive backed tape which is very thin.We had to install some at work two winters ago as we run on an outside fuel tank where there is an exposed pipe running from the tank to the boiler room and the pipe was freezing over restricting the fuel flow.Something like this - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Armaflex-Pipe-Insulation-Tape-50mm/dp/B0069R66BA


i have seen these at wickes, but i wouldn't think that they were as good the standard insulation sleeves.

wickes.co.uk/The…wed
Edited by: "mutley1" 6th Nov
joyf453606/11/2019 16:15

Insulate with a suitable expanding foam in a can.


i don't think this is a good idea, as m_gus has already pointed out, but you would have to have a very steady hand while you spray along the 2 m of pipes, so that you don't end up with foam all over the garage and have to mop it up before it solidifies.
Dannyrobbo06/11/2019 16:09

one would supply and the other return, you wouldn’t really need to do both …one would supply and the other return, you wouldn’t really need to do both or you could cop out on the return line where your losses would be minimal


that was what i was thinking, as one felt hotter than the other. one is boiling hot, while the other is hot but not burning hot. i was thinking put the proper 1.3 cm thick insulation sleeve on the supply pipe and the thinner insulation tape on the return line.
mutley106/11/2019 17:13

i don't think this is a good idea, as m_gus has already pointed out, but …i don't think this is a good idea, as m_gus has already pointed out, but you would have to have a very steady hand while you spray along the 2 m of pipes, so that you don't end up with foam all over the garage and have to mop it up before it solidifies.


Possibly not but good for confined spaces and we haven't had any issues with frozen pipes since being installed and we're in deepest, darkest Arctic Scotland

The foil is different from the tape.
Edited by: "psychedelicrenegade" 6th Nov
AndyRoyd06/11/2019 16:29

Insulate the garage?


what about putting a tea cosy over the whole house?
Oneday7706/11/2019 17:02

Take one 0.9cm thick length. Down the inside of the insulation cut half …Take one 0.9cm thick length. Down the inside of the insulation cut half depth length wise in the middle. Now open the length up, and slide it down the back of both pipes. Cut shorter to fit either side of brackets if required. Now take thicker, 22mm insulation. Again cut half way through the insulation lengthwise from the inside. Then open and clip it over the outside of the pipes, round the 0.9cm run.Finally use some zip ties every 0.5m or so to secure.


do you have a youtube video demonstration for this? i got lost after the first sentence.
hoojie06/11/2019 16:46

Or insulate one pipe, then run a stanley blade down the other tube of …Or insulate one pipe, then run a stanley blade down the other tube of insulation and cut out a quarter-ish, so it only goes three quarters round the second pipe. Like the bottom pipe in this picture:[Image] If you want you can tidy it up with some tape after.


this sounds like a workable idea as it is best if i can get the 1.3 cm sleeve cover on them both as that thicker sleeve will give a better insulation result.
AndyRoyd06/11/2019 16:09

Hot water pipes so any (competent) plumber, although easiest to leave …Hot water pipes so any (competent) plumber, although easiest to leave pipes as-is and just compress the insulation to fit.


i don't think you can compress these sleeves? they are foam so they will expand and won't stay compressed even if you manage to compress them?
psychedelicrenegade06/11/2019 17:18

Possibly not but good for confined spaces and we haven't had any issues …Possibly not but good for confined spaces and we haven't had any issues with frozen pipes since being installed and we're in deepest, darkest Arctic Scotland :DThe foil is different from the tape.


You can cut the stuff to a 'nice shape' once set.
psychedelicrenegade06/11/2019 17:18

Possibly not but good for confined spaces and we haven't had any issues …Possibly not but good for confined spaces and we haven't had any issues with frozen pipes since being installed and we're in deepest, darkest Arctic Scotland :DThe foil is different from the tape.


i have looked at the wickes foil again and i think that is my best option, or a similar product, as i have just gone out to the garage to check the foil size against the pipes spacing and there is not much spacing behind the pipes as they are clipped to the wall so the sleeves won't really work properly.

the product details on wickes website claims the foil has an equivalent thermal protection as 25 mm foam sleeves, this is thicker than the 13 mm foam sleeves that i was looking at so it should be better insulation if that claim is to be believed.
joyf453606/11/2019 17:50

You can cut the stuff to a 'nice shape' once set.


i will bear this in mind as i am sure there will come a time when this product would come in use. i would think it would be useful where you want to insulate non standard shapes. i have seen these before used to block holes in woodwork but i did not know they have insulating qualities. i would think they won't be as good as the insulating sleeves as those are made of foam especially to keep in heat?
mutley106/11/2019 17:57

i will bear this in mind as i am sure there will come a time when this …i will bear this in mind as i am sure there will come a time when this product would come in use. i would think it would be useful where you want to insulate non standard shapes. i have seen these before used to block holes in woodwork but i did not know they have insulating qualities. i would think they won't be as good as the insulating sleeves as those are made of foam especially to keep in heat?


I wonder why hot water cylinders are insulated with this type of stuff then.
joyf453606/11/2019 18:15

I wonder why hot water cylinders are insulated with this type of stuff …I wonder why hot water cylinders are insulated with this type of stuff then.


there may be different types of foam. just because they come in foam does not mean they are made of the same materials. if you think of all the different sealants available, they are not made of the same materials as you need different sealants for different jobs but they all look and feel the same to the eye. i would expect decorating or bog standard expanding foam to be different to that used for hot water tanks. the former would be easy to sand down to shape and easy to paint, the ones used for the hot water tank will have heat protection and it won't be so bothered about sanding or painting.

the expanding foam will have some heat retention qualities no doubt but it won't be as efficient as foam materials designed specifically for heat insulation like a hot water tank.
mutley106/11/2019 18:23

there may be different types of foam. just because they come in foam does …there may be different types of foam. just because they come in foam does not mean they are made of the same materials. if you think of all the different sealants available, they are not made of the same materials as you need different sealants for different jobs but they all look and feel the same to the eye. i would expect decorating or bog standard expanding foam to be different to that used for hot water tanks. the former would be easy to sand down to shape and easy to paint, the ones used for the hot water tank will have heat protection and it won't be so bothered about sanding or painting.the expanding foam will have some heat retention qualities no doubt but it won't be as efficient as foam materials designed specifically for heat insulation like a hot water tank.



screwfix.com/p/s…943

The clue is in the name.
Edited by: "joyf4536" 6th Nov
I think I'd cover the pipes with something like a piece of plastic gutter with pre-drilled hoes in. Fix this VERY firmly to the wall
and fill (not over-fill) the holes with foam which will expand to fill.

Nice neat job, although it is in a garage after all.
Edited by: "joyf4536" 6th Nov
mutley106/11/2019 17:25

do you have a youtube video demonstration for this? i got lost after …do you have a youtube video demonstration for this? i got lost after the first sentence.


Think of it as cutting each length into half figure of eights, then putting one half behind and one half infront.
mutley106/11/2019 18:23

there may be different types of foam. just because they come in foam does …there may be different types of foam. just because they come in foam does not mean they are made of the same materials. if you think of all the different sealants available, they are not made of the same materials as you need different sealants for different jobs but they all look and feel the same to the eye. i would expect decorating or bog standard expanding foam to be different to that used for hot water tanks. the former would be easy to sand down to shape and easy to paint, the ones used for the hot water tank will have heat protection and it won't be so bothered about sanding or painting.the expanding foam will have some heat retention qualities no doubt but it won't be as efficient as foam materials designed specifically for heat insulation like a hot water tank.


Foam doesn’t insulate, it’s the air in the foam that does that. As long as it has many sealed pockets of air in it, the foam material, as long as heat conductive won’t make a massive difference most of the time.
foam slit pipes will compress on the "tight size" you just have to work it.

I have them all over (I did all pipes as standard H&C from the hot water tank, & also in the conservatory where we have a butler sink & washing machine etc in an adjoining section) ..it gets very cold out there & the pipes have never frozen, it is north facing, with prevailing winds coming over the fields! (context, I hope).
OllieSt06/11/2019 16:12

What!! Is it really that easy?Now there's a surprise. Why didn't I/OP …What!! Is it really that easy?Now there's a surprise. Why didn't I/OP think of that?/thread.


Compressing the insulation damages it and reduces its effectiveness. Why not get something you can wrap around both the pipes together rather than individually.
You can get thin pipe insulation or you could box it in and fill it with glass fibre
Oneday7706/11/2019 18:41

Think of it as cutting each length into half figure of eights, then …Think of it as cutting each length into half figure of eights, then putting one half behind and one half infront.


i see, this makes more sense even though it is a short sentence good idea.
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