Hotel sued after sisters suffer horrific injuries in hammer attack

21
Posted 2nd MayEdited by:"OllieSt"
News report

Is the hotel in anyway responsible for this horrific incident?

My initial thoughts were that is completely clueless to go to sleep in a hotel room leaving the door ajar, but there are many hotels that have a key card that only allows access to your room floor. And should a non guest be able to freely access accommodation floors?
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not funny...^
even if card needed to go to a floor only need to follow someone who has accessed and its exact same
Normally you use the card to get in close the door then the card is needed to put the lights on i dont think the hotel is to be held accountable for the door being left open however her injuries at the attack in itself is horrific
I don't believe for one second that the door was ajar. Every modern hotel I've stayed in has doors that have closers and they slam shut.
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radium48 m ago

I don't believe for one second that the door was ajar. Every modern hotel …I don't believe for one second that the door was ajar. Every modern hotel I've stayed in has doors that have closers and they slam shut.



Woman is quoted as saying they left the door open - of course it is SKY, so they could be lying; however I have stayed at hotels as recently as Christmas, where the doors didnt auto close.

As much as I sympathise with them, I dont think the hotel can reasonably be held to blame, with many people coming in and out, you cannot track everyone without using devices that many people also complain infringe their privacy.

I have walked in and out of many hotels and never been challenged, even though at 2m tall, I do tend to stand out, and I also tend to dress scruffy when travelling long distance.

I dont know the hotel in question, but there may be a publicly accessible bar, restaurant, spa etc, on one of the floors; the last Marriot I stayed at had a swimming pool on the 7th floor, and public restaurants on the 4th floor.
How on Earth is the hotel responsible?
They themselves even admitted they left the door the door open themselves

What do they expect every hotel to be secured like going through the border
Edited by: "Norseg" 2nd May
Stay in hotels a lot with work around the world and been given keys to rooms with people in them and given replacement keys without id or the person knowing who I was.

A colleague was robbed at night when he “locked” his door only took sweets so none of us believe him.

Would never not fully lock the door and a chair goes in front of the door and under the handle where possible. Even bought a door alarm that you put under the door after we saw reports of people being able to get in to doors double locked.
Such a shame and a terrible incident/tragedy. The hotel can't be held responsible, sure no hotel is perfect but as adults we need to be responsible for our own safety, who would they sue if they left their own house front door open while they slept. I'm sure they would have revived criminal damages and rightfully so, but I wouldn't take money from them too.
The sisters were from UAE where due to strict laws, no one dares to even think of comitting crimes on such levels. Shame they didn't realize, this is lawless London.
The hotel is in the wrong, why, see below? (In the mitigation, the award for damages may be less as the guest should have taken reasonable measure for the guest room door. However, as we all know, there are at least two doors to a hotel for a person: the main entrance and the guest room door entrance.)

Occupiers’ Liability Act 1957 S.5 (1)

(1)Where persons enter or use, or bring or send goods to, any premises in exercise of a right conferred by contract with a person occupying or having control of the premises, the duty he owes them in respect of dangers due to the state of the premises or to things done or omitted to be done on them, in so far as the duty depends on a term to be implied in the contract by reason of its conferring that right, shall be the common duty of care.

The law applies to hotels, restaurants, theatres, fair-ground, football ground...(and these premises, except for hotel, are unlikely to have individual guest/visitor's own door as defence). The duty of care is the same for all premises.

The hotel owner is liable to ensure safety and security for his guests. Since terroism arrived on these shores, hotels in London would have been advised even more on what they should do to prevent intruders who could be terrorists...

Counter Terrorism Protective Security Advice for Hotels and Restaurants



Norseg02/05/2019 19:08

How on Earth is the hotel responsible?They themselves even admitted they …How on Earth is the hotel responsible?They themselves even admitted they left the door the door open themselvesWhat do they expect every hotel to be secured like going through the border



You said, "What do they expect every hotel to be secured like going through the border." Read the above, the law does not require any premises to be secured like going through the border in order for a person to be safe and secure.

Yours is a logical fallacy, and as such is unfair to all the British people and foreign tourists, because you implied that as we cannot secure (every) hotel like a border control, therefore, a person is liable for his own safety and security without occupier's protection.
splender04/05/2019 02:12

The hotel is in the wrong, why, see below? (In the mitigation, the award …The hotel is in the wrong, why, see below? (In the mitigation, the award for damages may be less as the guest should have taken reasonable measure for the guest room door. However, as we all know, there are at least two doors to a hotel for a person: the main entrance and the guest room door entrance.)Occupiers’ Liability Act 1957 S.5 (1)(1)Where persons enter or use, or bring or send goods to, any premises in exercise of a right conferred by contract with a person occupying or having control of the premises, the duty he owes them in respect of dangers due to the state of the premises or to things done or omitted to be done on them, in so far as the duty depends on a term to be implied in the contract by reason of its conferring that right, shall be the common duty of care. The law applies to hotels, restaurants, theatres, fair-ground, football ground...(and these premises, except for hotel, are unlikely to have individual guest/visitor's own door as defence). The duty of care is the same for all premises.The hotel owner is liable to ensure safety and security for his guests. Since terroism arrived on these shores, hotels in London would have been advised even more on what they should do to prevent intruders who could be terrorists...Counter Terrorism Protective Security Advice for Hotels and Restaurants You said, "What do they expect every hotel to be secured like going through the border." Read the above, the law does not require any premises to be secured like going through the border in order for a person to be safe and secure.Yours is a logical fallacy, and as such is unfair to all the British people and foreign tourists, because you implied that as we cannot secure (every) hotel like a border control, therefore, a person is liable for his own safety and security without occupier's protection.


So the Hotel should what? Check everyone before they enter he first door, most just work up their hotel room since you don't want to be bothered Everytime
I skim read it but I couldn't find anything what could honestly work
Even if they ask "oh sorry I forgot my keycard' "my wife has the keycard'

Hotel safe are false sense of security, they're not going to stop a terrorist, secruity may stop a drunken argument at best

Also that's UK law, not whatever country this is and I don't feel like the hotels are responsible for this, make sure all guest rooms have working doors and windows, make sure there is fire procedures, etc than I don't think they're liable what someone else does if they left their own door open

I've never thought a hotel was safe, no where is truly safe, I've always felt like I'll be robbed by the staff if a leave expensive items in the room
Edited by: "Norseg" 4th May
Norseg04/05/2019 03:32

So the Hotel should what? Check everyone before they enter he first door, …So the Hotel should what? Check everyone before they enter he first door, most just work up their hotel room since you don't want to be bothered Everytime I skim read it but I couldn't find anything what could honestly workEven if they ask "oh sorry I forgot my keycard' "my wife has the keycard'Hotel safe are false sense of security, they're not going to stop a terrorist, secruity may stop a drunken argument at bestAlso that's UK law, not whatever country this is and I don't feel like the hotels are responsible for this, make sure all guest rooms have working doors and windows, make sure there is fire procedures, etc than I don't think they're liable what someone else does if they left their own door openI've never thought a hotel was safe, no where is truly safe, I've always felt like I'll be robbed by the staff if a leave expensive items in the room


This happened in Central London.

Surely a hotel has a responsibility to ensure that non-guests cannot have access to guest room areas, otherwise we should expect our very own Big Issue salesperson on each and every floor. Whilst it is impossible to 100% police this, the hotel's goal should be paying guests and staff only. If a guest wants a friend/family to visit them then they should have to meet them in reception or something along those lines.
Edited by: "OllieSt" 4th May
OllieSt04/05/2019 04:09

This happened in Central London.Surely a hotel has a responsibility to …This happened in Central London.Surely a hotel has a responsibility to ensure that non-guests cannot have access to guest room areas, otherwise we should expect our very own Big Issue salesperson on each and every floor. Whilst it is impossible to 100% police this, the hotel's goal should be paying guests and staff only. If a guest wants a friend/family to visit them then they should have to meet them in reception or something along those lines.


But there is just no way to prevent this
Terrorists don't care about hotel staff or laws
Norseg04/05/2019 06:09

But there is just no way to prevent this Terrorists don't care about hotel …But there is just no way to prevent this Terrorists don't care about hotel staff or laws



You said, "But there is just no way to prevent this Terrorists don't care about hotel staff or laws."
We all know an attacker don't care others, which is bleedin' obvious.


Therefore, is your proposal here for all British people and tourists, I suspect your proposal is 1, if not, say so :-

1. a hotelier needs to do nothing, it is the guest to take the brunt of damage and that you are comfortable with this using your justification method: "But there is just no way to prevent..." ?

or,

2. a hotelier, such as this 4-star luxury hotel, needs to do something, to ensure his liability under laws of England & Wales : duty he owes them in respect of dangers due to the state of the premises or to things done or omitted to be done on them?

-----------------------------

Then you asked, "So the Hotel should what?" even after I gave you a comphrehensive document about what a hotel should do. This is it:
Counter Terrorism Protective Security Advice for Hotels and Restaurants

An appropriate access control is a manned CCTV system (at night when guests are asleep or when returning to room at night as a guest.) Such that an intruder could be seen walking around from ground floor and at lifts/stairs before he got to the 7th floor. Another would be, a hotel that I stayed in, the door sounds beeps until the door is shut and is not ajar. This common measure comes about because guests do not always shut their doors and lock properly. The other access control measures are stated in the above linked PDF document.
splender04/05/2019 11:58

You said, "But there is just no way to prevent this Terrorists don't care …You said, "But there is just no way to prevent this Terrorists don't care about hotel staff or laws." We all know an attacker don't care others, which is bleedin' obvious.Therefore, is your proposal here for all British people and tourists, I suspect your proposal is 1, if not, say so :-1. a hotelier needs to do nothing, it is the guest to take the brunt of damage and that you are comfortable with this using your justification method: "But there is just no way to prevent..." ?or,2. a hotelier, such as this 4-star luxury hotel, needs to do something, to ensure his liability under laws of England & Wales : duty he owes them in respect of dangers due to the state of the premises or to things done or omitted to be done on them?-----------------------------Then you asked, "So the Hotel should what?" even after I gave you a comphrehensive document about what a hotel should do. This is it:Counter Terrorism Protective Security Advice for Hotels and Restaurants An appropriate access control is a manned CCTV system (at night when guests are asleep or when returning to room at night as a guest.) Such that an intruder could be seen walking around from ground floor and at lifts/stairs before he got to the 7th floor. Another would be, a hotel that I stayed in, the door sounds beeps until the door is shut and is not ajar. This common measure comes about because guests do not always shut their doors and lock properly. The other access control measures are stated in the above linked PDF document.


Like i said they can't monitor everyone who enters and leaves at all times, probably just walked like normal than entered the room and attacked, every room with beeping doors for every hotel? That will cost way too much, what about small hotels? It's not a law for hotels to have high end secruity
Maybe if it happened because of a faulty door but it someone leaves it open than they're not responsible
Edited by: "Norseg" 4th May
Norseg22 m ago

Like i said they can't monitor everyone who enters and leaves at all …Like i said they can't monitor everyone who enters and leaves at all times, probably just walked like normal than entered the room and attacked, every room with beeping doors for every hotel? That will cost way too much, what about small hotels? It's not a law for hotels to have high end secruity Maybe if it happened because of a faulty door but it someone leaves it open than they're not responsible



A person is liable under the law, hence needing a legal decision on actual liability, even when no one can monitor every one. That's the central core of this thread and my point.

However, your central point to me was, "So the Hotel should what?"
Wow what a nutcase, I'm feeling unsafe just reading that can't imagine what they went through
It has to be said; specifically defeating the layer of security that is obviously provided by propping open a self-closing, locking room door is a conscious decision.
You can't argue that the door is not for personal/property security if the default is for it to self-close and lock. If it would only self-close; then possibly for fire reasons, but any access control is immediately for security by the key holder (intensified by the self-closing).

It doesn't matter if (or what) prior security measures there are if someone has chosen to defeat that specifically and obviously provided for them.
If there was a 'door open' alert; they would probably have defeated that by resting something against the switch.
Not only that; they were also endangering others by defeating the fire protection provided by the self-closing doors. If a fire occurred; this could both spread rapidly, and into the corridor which would be an evacuation route; endangering the lives of multiple others.

tl;dr: horrific attack by bad man, but they consciously defeated their provided obvious security, and put others at risk too
Norseg04/05/2019 12:05

Like i said they can't monitor everyone who enters and leaves at all …Like i said they can't monitor everyone who enters and leaves at all times, probably just walked like normal than entered the room and attacked, every room with beeping doors for every hotel? That will cost way too much, what about small hotels? It's not a law for hotels to have high end secruity Maybe if it happened because of a faulty door but it someone leaves it open than they're not responsible



The law is clear, as demonstrated to you in this thread. The hotel is liable for two doors. The guests removed liability for the door to their room but the hotel is still liable for the entrance, as per the law.

If establishments can't abide by the law because they, like you, believe "there's no way to police this" or "it's too expensive" then they have no business in this business.
Norseg4th May

So the Hotel should what? Check everyone before they enter he first door, …So the Hotel should what? Check everyone before they enter he first door, most just work up their hotel room since you don't want to be bothered Everytime I skim read it but I couldn't find anything what could honestly workEven if they ask "oh sorry I forgot my keycard' "my wife has the keycard'Hotel safe are false sense of security, they're not going to stop a terrorist, secruity may stop a drunken argument at bestAlso that's UK law, not whatever country this is and I don't feel like the hotels are responsible for this, make sure all guest rooms have working doors and windows, make sure there is fire procedures, etc than I don't think they're liable what someone else does if they left their own door openI've never thought a hotel was safe, no where is truly safe, I've always felt like I'll be robbed by the staff if a leave expensive items in the room



English please?
MadeDixonsCry9 h, 53 m ago

The law is clear, as demonstrated to you in this thread. The hotel is …The law is clear, as demonstrated to you in this thread. The hotel is liable for two doors. The guests removed liability for the door to their room but the hotel is still liable for the entrance, as per the law.If establishments can't abide by the law because they, like you, believe "there's no way to police this" or "it's too expensive" then they have no business in this business.



Well said. The hotel needs to ensure that Joe Public does not enter their premises and walk around as they feel like. It's unacceptable that a posh hotel such as this ( quoting the emdia ) does not have a doorman or building security.
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