hotel (wedding venue) refusing to refund 2 nights accom

49
Posted 14th AprEdited by:"whatyadoinsucka"
hi all
some advise please, i booked some overnight accomodation for a relations wedding on the companies website, via a paypal interface.
i paid on amex end of january, for a mid May wedding.

wedding is now cancelled due to corona, and its unlikely to be rebooked any time soon. they are effectively full till october, lack of registrar etc, so its unlikely to happen for at least a year,

i emailed the company asking for a refund, they've said no, that it will be rolled over to a new wedding date.

If it was a reasonable rate upfront i'd have been happy at that, but you all know how extortionate wedding venues can charge.. the wedding is insured, but guests room payments don't appear to be.

i would prefer not to chargeback, but it seems the only option, having had to pay via paypal it could be an issue? what are your thoughts?

has anyone experience of dealing with credit card companys / paypal payments.
i avoided logging into my paypal account when making the payment, so the transaction doesnt show on my paypal account, so i cannot amend online
Community Updates
Ask

Groups

Top comments
iang00714/04/2020 09:23

I would contract Amex and see what they say, to me the PayPal bit isn’t r …I would contract Amex and see what they say, to me the PayPal bit isn’t relevant as they forced you to use it but Amex should sort it out


Sec 75 protection is usually lost when PayPal is used. That being said, my experience with raising a dispute through PayPal has been good. I called them, gave the details, then they gave the seller 8 days to respond. As expected, there was no response and I got an automated email saying they have ruled in my favour. Within a couple of days, I had the credit on my card. This happened in January; amount was £600.
49 Comments
Let paypal deal with it, shouldn't be an issue at all. Also what's the issue with charge back?
bally1234514/04/2020 09:20

Let paypal deal with it, shouldn't be an issue at all. Also what's the …Let paypal deal with it, shouldn't be an issue at all. Also what's the issue with charge back?


It’s not something I have experience with. Hence my question, I believe PayPal has timeframes to deal within
Just give them a call explain your situation and they will advise you.
I would contract Amex and see what they say, to me the PayPal bit isn’t relevant as they forced you to use it but Amex should sort it out
Edited by: "iang007" 14th Apr
Most hotels and travel companies are breaking laws and refund rules due to what's going on .
Apparently according to all these experts on TV , if travel companies refunded everyone and then have 0 money coming in for 3-4 months . Most will go out business and economy will go into a mass recession.
We have 3 holidays booked this year , the first is mid July , hope everything is up and running by then , but not sure.
Edited by: "yozzman1234" 14th Apr
Ive replied to the wedding venue, I’ll see if they come good first.

It’s one of many items I’ve had to write down as a list. Next Ryanair EasyJet ebookers etc
Alot who are refunding like P&O and TUI etc are giving refunds but a 60 day wait . Or offering 125% credit for another holiday or cruise .
Using a credit card to fund a PayPal transaction doesn't give you credit card protection on the transaction (AFAIK). I don't think PayPal covers half what CC does other than minor perks such as free returns shipping.
iang00714/04/2020 09:23

I would contract Amex and see what they say, to me the PayPal bit isn’t r …I would contract Amex and see what they say, to me the PayPal bit isn’t relevant as they forced you to use it but Amex should sort it out


Sec 75 protection is usually lost when PayPal is used. That being said, my experience with raising a dispute through PayPal has been good. I called them, gave the details, then they gave the seller 8 days to respond. As expected, there was no response and I got an automated email saying they have ruled in my favour. Within a couple of days, I had the credit on my card. This happened in January; amount was £600.
Maggy123414/04/2020 09:32

Using a credit card to fund a PayPal transaction doesn't give you credit …Using a credit card to fund a PayPal transaction doesn't give you credit card protection on the transaction (AFAIK). I don't think PayPal covers half what CC does other than minor perks such as free returns shipping.


That’s the reason I avoided signing into my account and treated it as the front end payment system using my credit card
iang00714/04/2020 09:23

I would contract Amex and see what they say, to me the PayPal bit isn’t r …I would contract Amex and see what they say, to me the PayPal bit isn’t relevant as they forced you to use it but Amex should sort it out


Amex wont help here I'm afraid (no credit card company will) as by using PayPal you have forefitted the credit card protection.

See moneysavingexpert.com/cre…75/ for info.
whatyadoinsucka14/04/2020 09:40

That’s the reason I avoided signing into my account and treated it as the f …That’s the reason I avoided signing into my account and treated it as the front end payment system using my credit card


That doesnt matter - you used it as the payment system, PayPal is now who you need to deal with - Amex wont be able to help as the protection doesnt exist.
markmc99914/04/2020 09:41

Amex wont help here I'm afraid (no credit card company will) as by using …Amex wont help here I'm afraid (no credit card company will) as by using PayPal you have forefitted the credit card protection.See https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/credit-cards/PayPal-Section75/ for info.


But have I used PayPal (in the traditional sense), the hotel website payment front end as PayPal I entered my credit card details as a regular site and made payment I did not sign into PayPal as per se
Thats imaterial. You used PayPal thats all that matters.
markmc99914/04/2020 09:45

Thats imaterial. You used PayPal thats all that matters.


ok, thanks Mark, that was my concern.. have you passed experience of this.
whatyadoinsucka14/04/2020 09:46

ok, thanks Mark, that was my concern.. have you passed experience of this.


Yes sadly. With Amex - although not a hotel / holiday etc.

They were really helpful, as they always are, but ultimately said that they couldnt help as it was paid for via PayPal.

I'd suggest going back to the PayPal confirmation email and hunting for the 'having trouble' link.
markmc99914/04/2020 09:49

Yes sadly. With Amex - although not a hotel / holiday etc. They were …Yes sadly. With Amex - although not a hotel / holiday etc. They were really helpful, as they always are, but ultimately said that they couldnt help as it was paid for via PayPal. I'd suggest going back to the PayPal confirmation email and hunting for the 'having trouble' link.


thanks Mark appreciated, i've just checked and it was actually barclaycard, but sure the same applies.
I'll get onto paypal, and update
Paypal is great for this kind of thing. Raise a dispute. The hotel will have a few days to respond. Paypal will decide. I've done 3 or 4 refunds like this, no issues and in fact, usually the company doesn't bother to reply.
whatyadoinsucka14/04/2020 09:50

thanks Mark appreciated, i've just checked and it was actually …thanks Mark appreciated, i've just checked and it was actually barclaycard, but sure the same applies.I'll get onto paypal, and update


Yes same applies, just open a case, the companies normally refund quickly when you do that.
whatyadoinsucka14/04/2020 09:50

thanks Mark appreciated, i've just checked and it was actually …thanks Mark appreciated, i've just checked and it was actually barclaycard, but sure the same applies.I'll get onto paypal, and update


Don't become too blinkered with possibility of payment card assistance. A simpler question is:
what cancellation terms did you agree with when you placed the booking? i.e. what do the t&c say about cancellations due to (insert cancellation reason)?
In the first place you can't cancel because a wedding you want to attent got cancelled and you have no legal right to do a chargeback because hotels might be open at this point and you would be able to stay there.

You can only wait and see if they cancel.
Edited by: "Buckyball" 14th Apr
Buckyball14/04/2020 10:27

In the first place you can't cancel because a wedding you want to attent …In the first place you can't cancel because a wedding you want to attent got cancelled and you have no legal right to do a chargeback because hotels might be open at this point and you would be able to stay there.You can only wait and see if they cancel.


It’s a wedding venue only, not a regular hotel
They have cancelled already
Edited by: "whatyadoinsucka" 14th Apr
AndyRoyd14/04/2020 10:16

Don't become too blinkered with possibility of payment card assistance. A …Don't become too blinkered with possibility of payment card assistance. A simpler question is:what cancellation terms did you agree with when you placed the booking? i.e. what do the t&c say about cancellations due to (insert cancellation reason)?


No mention of pandemic in the T&Cs
whatyadoinsucka14/04/2020 09:26

Ive replied to the wedding venue, I’ll see if they come good first. It’s on …Ive replied to the wedding venue, I’ll see if they come good first. It’s one of many items I’ve had to write down as a list. Next Ryanair EasyJet ebookers etc


Do not get palmed of with flight vouchers unless u r happy with them, EU law backs full flight refunds
whatyadoinsucka14/04/2020 10:30

No mention of pandemic in the T&Cs


What cancellation term permits you to obtain refund?
whatyadoinsucka14/04/2020 10:29

It’s a wedding venue only, not a regular hotelThey have cancelled already



Ok, if they cancelled they have to refund.
AndyRoyd14/04/2020 10:31

What cancellation term permits you to obtain refund?


no mention of pandemic... is a pandemic an act of god.

No refunds on overnight stays as counted towards venue hire.

The Venue will not be deemed in breach of this contract or otherwise liable to the Client in the event of the performance being rendered wholly or partially impossible due to circumstances beyond reasonable control incl, without limitation any ActofGod, any fire damage, industrial , flooding, weather, tornado , lightening, electrical or mechanical problems, gas failure, omission by Government and local authorities or other key authority, the act or omission of any party for whom the company is not responsible.
Edited by: "whatyadoinsucka" 14th Apr
whatyadoinsucka14/04/2020 10:35

no mention of pandemic... circumstances beyond The Venues reasonable …no mention of pandemic... circumstances beyond The Venues reasonable control


A pandemic is reasonably "circumstances beyond The Venues reasonable control".
Edited by: "AndyRoyd" 14th Apr
AndyRoyd14/04/2020 10:40

A pandemic is reasonably "circumstances beyond The Venues reasonable …A pandemic is reasonably "circumstances beyond The Venues reasonable control".


is it reasonable for the venue to hold money for an unbooked event in the future? when in fact they may not be in business.
(possibly due to refund requests), its a tricky one..

As i've said above if it was a small amount of money i wouldn't be so bothered, but wedding venues charge the earth for a basic room ,that is used essentially for a shower, and a few hours kip..
Edited by: "whatyadoinsucka" 14th Apr
Amex won’t help as you never paid direct, you paid third party eg PayPal... best bet is contact PayPal first, you could chance Amex fingers crossed, personally I would just put a small claims in it cost £25 and when you win they pay that as well..
whatyadoinsucka14/04/2020 10:43

is it reasonable for the venue to hold money for an unbooked event in the …is it reasonable for the venue to hold money for an unbooked event in the future? when in fact they may not be in business.(possibly due to refund requests), its a tricky one..As i've said above if it was a small amount of money i wouldn't be so bothered, but wedding venues charge the earth for a basic room ,that is used essentially for a shower, and a few hours kip..


Seems strange that a t&c should only mention "performance" and not the specific word of "cancellation".
Bargainhead14/04/2020 10:48

Amex won’t help as you never paid direct, you paid third party eg P …Amex won’t help as you never paid direct, you paid third party eg PayPal... best bet is contact PayPal first, you could chance Amex fingers crossed, personally I would just put a small claims in it cost £25 and when you win they pay that as well..


At which point though they will revert to their T&C's (which I imagine states no refunds and credits offered). I'm guessing the T&C's state this quite clearly. Especially as the Government is basically saying that credit notes are acceptable to avoid all the refunds hemorrhaging the small businesses cashflow.

PayPal are likely to be more flexible than anywhere else though to be fair - they nearly always support the consumer regardless of what the T&C's etc. state.

One thing to note aroud PayPal and chargebacks at the moment - they've extended how long businesses have to reply (its been extended quite a bit!) so dont expect it to be as quick as it is / was
markmc99914/04/2020 11:33

At which point though they will revert to their T&C's (which I imagine …At which point though they will revert to their T&C's (which I imagine states no refunds and credits offered). I'm guessing the T&C's state this quite clearly. Especially as the Government is basically saying that credit notes are acceptable to avoid all the refunds hemorrhaging the small businesses cashflow. PayPal are likely to be more flexible than anywhere else though to be fair - they nearly always support the consumer regardless of what the T&C's etc. state.One thing to note aroud PayPal and chargebacks at the moment - they've extended how long businesses have to reply (its been extended quite a bit!) so dont expect it to be as quick as it is / was


yep, i rang paypal, as you say its a longer timeframe, i've started the process so that will do..
iang00714/04/2020 09:23

I would contract Amex and see what they say, to me the PayPal bit isn’t r …I would contract Amex and see what they say, to me the PayPal bit isn’t relevant as they forced you to use it but Amex should sort it out


It’s all well and good but if you have a PayPal account and they invoiced the same email if you chargeback PayPal will give you a negative account so unless yourepay them you’re effectively black listed from paypal
markmc99914/04/2020 09:45

Thats imaterial. You used PayPal thats all that matters.


So the hotel basically tricked him by not advising they used PayPal.. very dodgy imho
dodgymix14/04/2020 12:10

So the hotel basically tricked him by not advising they used PayPal.. very …So the hotel basically tricked him by not advising they used PayPal.. very dodgy imho


Paypal offers various payment methods including account-based, gateway-based and its own credit facility. All are very obviously branded PayPal at time of use. Not a particularly dodgymix.
markmc99914/04/2020 11:33

At which point though they will revert to their T&C's (which I imagine …At which point though they will revert to their T&C's (which I imagine states no refunds and credits offered). I'm guessing the T&C's state this quite clearly. Especially as the Government is basically saying that credit notes are acceptable to avoid all the refunds hemorrhaging the small businesses cashflow. PayPal are likely to be more flexible than anywhere else though to be fair - they nearly always support the consumer regardless of what the T&C's etc. state.One thing to note aroud PayPal and chargebacks at the moment - they've extended how long businesses have to reply (its been extended quite a bit!) so dont expect it to be as quick as it is / was


If PayPal won’t help I would use small claims, t&c are open for interpretation with this virus they can’t just use a blanket get out. Goes to court it will be up to them...

where does it say credit notes are acceptable by law.. they can offer but you don’t need to accept..
Edited by: "Bargainhead" 14th Apr
Bargainhead14/04/2020 13:06

If PayPal won’t help I would use small claims, t&c are open for i …If PayPal won’t help I would use small claims, t&c are open for interpretation with this virus they can’t just use a blanket get out. Goes to court it will be up to them...where does it say credit notes are acceptable by law.. they can offer but you don’t need to accept..


Did you book via web or phone, or in person on the hotel premises? If off-premises, considering the merchant only appears to have added it t&c to its website no earlier than (possibly) 28 Feb 2020 so there may be an angle for full refund based on failure to provide mandatory disclosures related to off-premises sales if you made your booking prior to 28 Feb 2020. Maybe check what disclosures were provided at the time of your booking.
AndyRoyd14/04/2020 14:52

Did you book via web or phone, or in person on the hotel premises? If …Did you book via web or phone, or in person on the hotel premises? If off-premises, considering the merchant only appears to have added it t&c to its website no earlier than (possibly) 28 Feb 2020 so there may be an angle for full refund based on failure to provide mandatory disclosures related to off-premises sales if you made your booking prior to 28 Feb 2020. Maybe check what disclosures were provided at the time of your booking.


Thanks Andy, I rang them to pay by credit card and they told me to pay online via website
whatyadoinsucka14/04/2020 15:14

Thanks Andy, I rang them to pay by credit card and they told me to pay …Thanks Andy, I rang them to pay by credit card and they told me to pay online via website


How did the supplier provide the t&c applicable to the booking?
Post a comment
Avatar
@
    Text

    Discussions