House purchase

54
Found 18th Jan
hi I am in process of buying a property, the property has a few covenants in place like no building at the front side, no building within 8 feet of the boundaries, plus it's a in a conservation area, at the time we agreed sale price we didn't know about these, plus the main thing that's going too cost quite alot is the Insulation of the walls and roof, as the property hasnt got any cavities. we weren't given the EPC rating at the time and are considering too ask the estate agent too ask vendors reduced the agreed price is this fair or not. the main extra costs are mainly to do with having the need for planning permission even for uPVC windows and fences need repairing this is again under the covenants that they need to be approved etc. the total extra work is likely too be around 10% of the agreed sale price. just bit worried Incase sellers say no and say they don't want sell to us for being too fussy.
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You have so many concerns about this house - walk away and find a deal you can sleep with.
54 Comments
House buying is such a grey area in UK with seller not obliged to provide full and accurate property details in the listing. Buyers often must find out themselves fine details through so called searches which are not cheap.
I'm afraid you are the mercy of seller - if they are desperate to move (I know I would be from listed property in need of repairs) they will negotiate. Otherwise tuff luck.
Listed buildings in a conservation area are a minefield (and a money pit ! ) . Nearly bought one a few years back (as it was "quirky" and convenient for town ) . I pass it a few times a week ,still hasn't got double glazing and has changed hands a couple of times - Was I a lucky boy I didn't go through with the purchase .

Unless you have a large wad of cash to throw at it , or are comfortable living in a high maintenance, very cold house (planning permission for even simple things like "lookalike " UPVC windows will be difficult if not impossible ), I would do a lot more research . For example lots of houses of this type have been on and off the market for years as they are not easy to sell , so maybe the sellers could be getting desperate for a sale and a well explained lower bid may well be accepted .
I would try and renegotiate the price, you’ve got good cause because of the now known covenant restrictions. It depends how motivated the sellers ask, but even if they counter offer it would be better than nothing. In the current housing climate I would be surprised if they refused to sell to you just because you asked.
Toptrumpet22 m ago

I would try and renegotiate the price, you’ve got good cause because of t …I would try and renegotiate the price, you’ve got good cause because of the now known covenant restrictions. It depends how motivated the sellers ask, but even if they counter offer it would be better than nothing. In the current housing climate I would be surprised if they refused to sell to you just because you asked.


Shall I add the solid wall insulation in aswell that is a cost of approximately 7k plus loft insulation will be likely 2/3k as it needs new joists and cieling lowered currently it's not got much space too add loft insulation in. I am quite hopeful that there shouldn't be major issues with getting the approval through as it's next too a park and quite a few houses have had there windows changed which are in the same conservation area.
What’s the current epc rating
If you like the house then take the hit, if not then ask for a drop but be prepared that they may walk away, it happens a lot.

In terms of covenants I wouldn’t worry too much, the issue is being in a conservation area but you would have known that about the location anyway so not sure why you think the seller should pay. As for all the insulation unless the EPC is E or less I wouldn’t worry about it and they certainly won’t take the hit. Replacing UPVC windows does normally need permission anyway in most areas and as this is work you are choosing to do it’s not their fault either.

If you approached me with that I’d walk away laughing and put it back on the market and only agree to sell it back to you for 10k more than the asking price!
Edited by: "cmdr_elito" 18th Jan
Toptrumpet6 m ago

What’s the current epc rating


E 39
cmdr_elito15 m ago

If you like the house then take the hit, if not then ask for a drop but be …If you like the house then take the hit, if not then ask for a drop but be prepared that they may walk away, it happens a lot.In terms of covenants I wouldn’t worry too much, the issue is being in a conservation area but you would have known that about the location anyway so not sure why you think the seller should pay. As for all the insulation unless the EPC is E or less I wouldn’t worry about it and they certainly won’t take the hit. Replacing UPVC windows does normally need permission anyway in most areas and as this is work you are choosing to do it’s not their fault either.If you approached me with that I’d walk away laughing and put it back on the market and only agree to sell it back to you for 10k more than the asking price!


The problem is it was in as selaed buds with no EPC rating given at the time it finished they sent that across after 2 weeks, in regards the conservation area I really didn't know and don't expect other people would either it's just. Because there's a park about 300 meters away really didn't know houses close too parks where considered as conservation areas. I did offer approximately 12-15% above the guide price. So is abit complicated plus it was advertised as cash only buyers.
Edited by: "MynameisM" 18th Jan
You have so many concerns about this house - walk away and find a deal you can sleep with.
davewave3 m ago

You have so many concerns about this house - walk away and find a deal you …You have so many concerns about this house - walk away and find a deal you can sleep with.


It's at final stage now just wondering what to do that's all seen quite a few but they haven't been what we are after this seems too fit the bill apart from these things but I suppose these could pop up in another house aswell so just asking for suggestions.
MynameisM2 m ago

It's at final stage now just wondering what to do that's all seen quite a …It's at final stage now just wondering what to do that's all seen quite a few but they haven't been what we are after this seems too fit the bill apart from these things but I suppose these could pop up in another house aswell so just asking for suggestions.


can you live with it, can your partner live with it?
Tend to agree with davewave here, but let’s look at your question re solid wall insulation.
The epc certificate could be your saviour here. The ‘E’ rating is given to properties that have been rated energy efficienct between 39 and 54, and yours has just scraped in at 39. To be able to rent a property out the minimum must be an e rating, so that is a benchmark. The epc certificate should also show recommendations from the issuer on how to improve the rating and likely cost and resulting cost savings in undertaking the work.Does the epc show anything like that?
Edited by: "Toptrumpet" 18th Jan
Toptrumpet6 m ago

Tend to agree with davewave here, but let’s look at your question re solid …Tend to agree with davewave here, but let’s look at your question re solid wall insulation.The epc certificate could be your saviour here. The ‘E’ rating is given to properties that have been rated energy efficienct between 39 and 54, and yours has just scraped in at 39. To be able to rent a property out the minimum must be an e rating, so that is a benchmark. The epc certificate should also show recommendations from the issuer on how to improve the rating and likely cost and resulting cost savings in undertaking the work.Does the epc show anything like that?


Yes it does, that's how I realised it didn't have cavities and it's quite expensive too fix this issue.
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@MynameisM
Do you now think the reason that the vendors would only consider cash buyers is because of the outcome you’ve now found yourselves in? I’m not being rude, just thinking that others before you may have pulled out or not been able to get a mortgage easily and that’s why it’s cash only
Edited by: "Toptrumpet" 18th Jan
Toptrumpet4 m ago

@MynameisM Do you now think the reason that the vendors would only …@MynameisM Do you now think the reason that the vendors would only consider cash buyers is because of the outcome you’ve now found yourselves in? I’m not being rude, just thinking that others before you may have pulled out or not been able to get a mortgage easily and that’s why it’s cash only


It's in need of alot of work there is abit of a issue with structural damage at the front and theres no proper kitchen I think that's the reason for it. We already expected it will need around 40-50k spending on it but this stuff plus going through formal planning permission as opposed too a buildings notice all adds too the costs we estimate approximately 10-12k on top and then not nowing if the the pp will be granted. Due too these reasons I was thinking too revise the offer and see what they say just about worried if the sellers may have the same mind set as the other commentor on here.
Unless you are going to loose a considerable sum by not completing I would be prepared to walk away. Always read the legal pack first before any potential purchase. Considering the amount of work that should have been done by the seller indicates they may be cash poor and unless the property is in a very desirable area I would alter the bid to reflect. Rember, estate agents are all liars and would probably have you bidding against yourself and will likely say there are plenty of interested parties. Would have thought there would be hesitation in the market at the minute given Brexit.
The agent and vendor are both to be chastised here, the property should never have been marketed without the epc being advertised or readily available to Potential buyers before the sealed bids process. It just wastes everyone time and causes headaches.
This purchase may well be the most expensive thing you ever buy and you need to be able to sleep at night knowing every single wrinkle.
The property being in a conservation area, it’s one thing to put in for permissions for alterations and an entirely different matter to get approval. Just because another house has something, each property is taken on their own merit and can easily be refused.
I would add up all the costs of the epc recommendations and try and renegotiate. Also take into consideration the time and effort getting the recommendations done, would you also look at recompense for that as well. Only you can decide, but for me, with it being a cash purchase as well, I think I would pull out and continue searching for another property which has more transparency.
If that makes sense.
Just seen the major red flag ‘structural damage at the front’.
Have you had an independent full survey
Toptrumpet4 m ago

The agent and vendor are both to be chastised here, the property should …The agent and vendor are both to be chastised here, the property should never have been marketed without the epc being advertised or readily available to Potential buyers before the sealed bids process. It just wastes everyone time and causes headaches.This purchase may well be the most expensive thing you ever buy and you need to be able to sleep at night knowing every single wrinkle.The property being in a conservation area, it’s one thing to put in for permissions for alterations and an entirely different matter to get approval. Just because another house has something, each property is taken on their own merit and can easily be refused. I would add up all the costs of the epc recommendations and try and renegotiate. Also take into consideration the time and effort getting the recommendations done, would you also look at recompense for that as well. Only you can decide, but for me, with it being a cash purchase as well, I think I would pull out and continue searching for another property which has more transparency. If that makes sense.


Ok thanks for the advice I don't really want too pull out I think I just need too ask for a reduction but in a fair and reasonable manner so they can reduce the price abit due too these things.
And are you planning to live in the house whilst the work is being done, beacause from experience that really is a test of your relationship especially if you have kids.
Toptrumpet13 m ago

And are you planning to live in the house whilst the work is being done, …And are you planning to live in the house whilst the work is being done, beacause from experience that really is a test of your relationship especially if you have kids.


No got a place too live in currently luckily.
Whatever you decide, Good Luck with it.
cmdr_elito1 h, 55 m ago

If you approached me with that I’d walk away laughing and put it back on t …If you approached me with that I’d walk away laughing and put it back on the market and only agree to sell it back to you for 10k more than the asking price!


Harsh
deeky4 m ago

Harsh


It’s as cold as reality can be....
too many problems you should run even if this was next door to me I would run. How much will you lose if you walk
Is this house a place you envisage staying in for a long time?

Also you should know the your estimate of 40-50k will run over that amount in any case. It always does.
Edited by: "OllieSt" 18th Jan
Just looking at it financially, have you looked at sold prices on a comparative property on say Nethouseprices.com and worked out if after buying and spending the money on it, will be a good investment?
OllieSt31 m ago

Is this house a place you envisage staying in for a long time?Also you …Is this house a place you envisage staying in for a long time?Also you should know the your estimate of 40-50k will run over that amount in any case. It always does.


Yes hopefully will be a family home for long time like previous owners they had it since 1960s only selling as the parent's have passed away now.
MynameisM8 m ago

Yes hopefully will be a family home for long time like previous owners …Yes hopefully will be a family home for long time like previous owners they had it since 1960s only selling as the parent's have passed away now.



I say go for it as long as you can get your head around it's primarily your family home not an investment. I would certainly try for a reduction in price though. You have nothing to lose by asking. In today's world any property could be worth 75% of what it is today in 5 years time in any case.

If you have wooden framed windows I would look at Accoya wood if you want to install double glazing. You might find it easier to get it passed, and personally I hate uPVC windows.
Edited by: "OllieSt" 18th Jan
cmdr_elito3 h, 48 m ago

If you like the house then take the hit, if not then ask for a drop but be …If you like the house then take the hit, if not then ask for a drop but be prepared that they may walk away, it happens a lot.In terms of covenants I wouldn’t worry too much, the issue is being in a conservation area but you would have known that about the location anyway so not sure why you think the seller should pay. As for all the insulation unless the EPC is E or less I wouldn’t worry about it and they certainly won’t take the hit. Replacing UPVC windows does normally need permission anyway in most areas and as this is work you are choosing to do it’s not their fault either.If you approached me with that I’d walk away laughing and put it back on the market and only agree to sell it back to you for 10k more than the asking price!



You would have to know it would sell for more if you were foolish enough to do that . In the current market ,on an apparently unmortgageable property I somehow doubt it . Do you ever read the full post before commenting ?
zworld40 m ago

Comment deleted


Ok and what has that got to do with anything are you part of the pc bridge of punctuation.
zworld40 m ago

Comment deleted


By the way your English is pretty terrible aswell if that makes you feel better.
Not really read all of the thread, but just curious as to why having no cavity or wall insulation is seen as something which needs remedying? Cavities didn't really come into play until the 20's - my house and pretty much the next three streets were all built in the 1890's. We don't have cavities, wall insulation, or Upvc for that matter, and I'm pretty sure the house will still be here long after I'm gone.
Edited by: "fivegoldstars" 18th Jan
fivegoldstars6 m ago

Not really read all of the thread, but just curious as to why having no …Not really read all of the thread, but just curious as to why having no cavity or wall insulation is seen as something which needs remedying? Cavities didn't really come into play until the 20's - my house and pretty much the next three streets were all built in the 1890's. We don't have cavities, wall insulation, or Upvc for that matter, and I'm pretty sure the house will still be here long after I'm gone.


The house will be there it just costs alot of money keeping warm it's a detached property. So at the time we made the offer we hadn't realised this and it's a significant cost. I'm just wondering as really the EPC should have been disclosed before the closing of the deadline for all offers maybe they didn't disclose this due to this fact it was actually done about 15 days before the deadline i didn't realize there was a online database that can been accessed by anyone for free at anytime surely the estate agents new of this fact and didn't disclose it.
Forgetting the disclosure element, the construction and EPC rating wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. Maybe I'm being naive, but at the end of the day, we managed pretty well without EPC ratings too. My house is a 3 bed detached, and I pay £87 per month gas and electric. Maybe I could get that down a couple of hundred pounds on a 'better insulated' house, but if you're spending, I would expect, over £150k on a house , what's £200 a year?
You obviously like the house - I assume that it has more character than a Barratt home - so why let some arbitrary indicator of energy efficiency put you off?
If and when I ever sell, a buyer asked me to knock off money because it might be a bit cold in winter, I'd laugh him out of the house.
zworld11 m ago

Comment deleted


Ok I see then maybe you can take classes in English aswell. You use the word I more than necessary plus you don't always use full stops. So it's better to keep a low profile like me instead of complaining about it.
MynameisM12 m ago

The house will be there it just costs alot of money keeping warm it's a …The house will be there it just costs alot of money keeping warm it's a detached property. So at the time we made the offer we hadn't realised this and it's a significant cost. I'm just wondering as really the EPC should have been disclosed before the closing of the deadline for all offers maybe they didn't disclose this due to this fact it was actually done about 15 days before the deadline i didn't realize there was a online database that can been accessed by anyone for free at anytime surely the estate agents new of this fact and didn't disclose it.


Seriously just walk away. While you are considering the costs now and restrictions. Think how much harder it will be for you to sell in 5, 10, 20 years.

Even a house for life can need sold. Change of job, change of marital/financial status etc.

It might sound harsh but one of the first indications of how a house of fit for modern living is an EPC rating. I’d personally not consider anything less than a C and I live in an 82 B. Warmth in a home is all about comfort and keeping out damp.

Then you mention structural issues. That could be a cheap to horrendous fix.
rogparki2 h, 34 m ago

You would have to know it would sell for more if you were foolish enough …You would have to know it would sell for more if you were foolish enough to do that . In the current market ,on an apparently unmortgageable property I somehow doubt it . Do you ever read the full post before commenting ?


Yes and it’s near a park, in a conservation area, these properties unless in wales or Scotland or Northern Ireland will hold their value more vs others!!
Oneday772 h, 25 m ago

Seriously just walk away. While you are considering the costs now and …Seriously just walk away. While you are considering the costs now and restrictions. Think how much harder it will be for you to sell in 5, 10, 20 years. Even a house for life can need sold. Change of job, change of marital/financial status etc. It might sound harsh but one of the first indications of how a house of fit for modern living is an EPC rating. I’d personally not consider anything less than a C and I live in an 82 B. Warmth in a home is all about comfort and keeping out damp. Then you mention structural issues. That could be a cheap to horrendous fix.


I've owned my home for nearly 20 years, so EPC ratings have kind of passed me by. I've just checked the register, and my closest neighbour to be rated (slightly newer build in 1892, and semi vs detached) has a rating of D65. The recommendations are £6k solar heating for £24 per year saving, and £14.5k wall insulation for £181 per year saving
Two floors down from that, it's F38, with a recommendation to get cavity insulation...on solid brick walls!
Edited by: "fivegoldstars" 18th Jan
Did you not have a full search done of the property. Surely this would have found this out
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