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    How do you feel about buying DVDs?

    Banned
    Expensive Blu-rays and HD-DVDs are out, DVDs are dropping in price rapidly. Do you, with your HDTV, still feel happy about buying and viewing DVDs on it?

    I watched Million Dollar Baby (DVD) on my friends (cheap) HDTV the other day - It looked excellent, even with a cheap DVD player and expensive RGB scart cable. While I haven't had the pleasure of viewing any HD movies (apart from on my 1440x900 monitor), I don't feel the DVD > Blu-ray/HD-DVD jump is anything like the VHS > DVD jump.

    I'll FINALLY be making the move into HDTV sometime this year, most likely with the Sony D3000, after my terrible Sanyo 32" decided to stop working. Waiting for the 32" version of the D3000 to hit the £700 mark.

    26 Comments

    Personally, I think the likes of HD & Blu-Ray have come way too early.

    VHS videos came out in the early 80's and it was nearly 20 years later before dvd's really took over.
    DVD's offered a much better picture, better sound quality etc. and you didn't have to upgrade your TV to take advantage.

    DVD's still have years left of milage in them IMO but already we have these new formats, way before anyone actually asked for them.
    Yes, they're better than dvd, but the jump in quality is no-where near the jump was from VHS to DVD.

    Then there's the fact that you need to spend hundreds on a HD TV to appreciate the slightly better quality.
    Plus, I can buy about 7 or 8 used dvds for the same price as 1 HD or Blu-Ray movie.

    I'm in no rush to upgrade. If you're rich and like to have the latest technolgy (regardless of price), then go for it.
    I'll be happy with dvds for several more years, and by that time HD & Blu-Ray players will be about £20 in Tescos

    Edit : Sorry if this is slighty off-topic....

    I begrudge paying more than a fiver for a dvd to be honest!

    I wouldn't say HD DVDs are that expensive, new DVD releases are around the 15, 16 pound mark and the HD DVDs are often just a couple of quid more. When DVDs came out they were generally 25-30 pounds where VHS tapes were just a tenner, thirteen pounds.

    As for quality, yes DVDs look good - but how many HD DVD films have you watched? One of my favourite films is V for Vendetta so it's no surprise that it's my first HD DVD film as well. It looks stunning in HD DVD, this type of film particularly benefits from the higher resolution as there is a lot of grain caused by the upscaling of the many dark scenes. The HD DVD version is very sharp, blacks are properly black - V's mask stands out far more, the Norsefire red and black that surrounds the High Chancellor's screen is far more striking.

    Which do I buy now? Depends on the price, I'm trying very hard not to rebuy DVDs I already have and for cheap DVDs I'm still buying them. I've just ordered Silent Hill for a fiver as I want some of the extras, there is no HD DVD version (Blu-ray only) and I wouldn't pay 15 quid for it anyway. However I'm probably going to pick up 300 for 18 pounds when it's out on HD DVD as I think it's something which will look much better in HD as it's a very graphical film.

    John

    Iom-RF

    I begrudge paying more than a fiver for a dvd to be honest!



    Here here! has to be a really good one to spend more than that!

    With the huge growth in films for £3 or less recently I've taken to buying one of those rather than renting!

    If you dont think you'll watch it again you can usually make a couple of quid back on ebay from it!

    Well we dont have HD tv, so I guess I have to be happy with a DVD I dont see a problem with them though, I still have videos!

    wraithchild

    Here here! has to be a really good one to spend more than that!With the … Here here! has to be a really good one to spend more than that!With the huge growth in films for £3 or less recently I've taken to buying one of those rather than renting!If you dont think you'll watch it again you can usually make a couple of quid back on ebay from it!



    Same here, we dont rent because it usually costs just as much to buy! Its cheaper to buy any movies you want to see, than to subscribe to the movies on sky (since there are hardly any you want to see anyway!)

    Johnmcl7

    I wouldn't say HD DVDs are that expensive, new DVD releases are around … I wouldn't say HD DVDs are that expensive, new DVD releases are around the 15, 16 pound mark and the HD DVDs are often just a couple of quid more. When DVDs came out they were generally 25-30 pounds where VHS tapes were just a tenner, thirteen pounds.As for quality, yes DVDs look good - but how many HD DVD films have you watched? One of my favourite films is V for Vendetta so it's no surprise that it's my first HD DVD film as well. It looks stunning in HD DVD, this type of film particularly benefits from the higher resolution as there is a lot of grain caused by the upscaling of the many dark scenes. The HD DVD version is very sharp, blacks are properly black - V's mask stands out far more, the Norsefire red and black that surrounds the High Chancellor's screen is far more striking.Which do I buy now? Depends on the price, I'm trying very hard not to rebuy DVDs I already have and for cheap DVDs I'm still buying them. I've just ordered Silent Hill for a fiver as I want some of the extras, there is no HD DVD version (Blu-ray only) and I wouldn't pay 15 quid for it anyway. However I'm probably going to pick up 300 for 18 pounds when it's out on HD DVD as I think it's something which will look much better in HD as it's a very graphical film.John



    Agree 100% with John,

    I bought my HD TV and then bought my xbox 360 hd dvd player several months later, the quality is noticably different and is really quite outstanding, but there is no way I would buy any hddvd I already have on normal dvd.

    I keep thinking to myself I should stop buying all these cheap dvds, but to be honest I think it will be 5-6 years before the HD stuff takes over more of the market, and I like paying £4 for dvds :giggle:

    I'll also be buying 300 :thumbsup: will be my first hddvd, although I have rented half a dozen from good old lovefilm

    I have a HDTV and im more than happy to upscale 720p with Standerd Def DVD's.

    In my personal opinion Blu Ray and HD DVD looks that crisp and clear at times, you can see it is fake!!

    I had over 700 VHS, I got rid of them and now have over 600 DVD so you can get fooked if you think im swapping my collection so soon!

    £3 a DVD off ebay! I think ill stick to that!

    "I wouldn't say HD DVDs are that expensive, new DVD releases are around the 15, 16 pound mark and the HD DVDs are often just a couple of quid more"

    That's only true during the first few of weeks on release. After that you can usually pick up recent-release dvds dirt-cheap, either new from supermarkets etc. , or even cheaper used from the likes of Gamestation, Blockbuster etc.
    Not so with HD dvds or Blu-Ray movies.

    Like I said in my earlier post, I reckon these new formats have come out far too early and are simply not good value for the average person.
    Dvd's still have several years left in them IMO, especially at the prices you can pick them up for these days.
    The upgrade in quality compared to the price of HD/Blu Ray movies/players/TV's just isn't worth it at the moment as far as I'm concerned.

    Of course, rich people who must have the latest thing will still buy these new formats and that's fair enough. I just don't think they're getting very good value for money.

    Just my opinion

    Original Poster Banned

    Like Martin said; DVDs only stay near the £15 mark near the release. HD-DVDs/Blu-rays look like they're going to stay in that price area for quite some time, however long it takes for HD to become as normal as DVDs. You have to be fairly rich to afford to buy HD movies at those prices!!

    I'm 99% certain I'll be very happy with DVD playback on my (hopefully) future Sony D3000. Decent upscaling DVD player and cable...that's most likely all I need to be happy once I get a decent TV, HD DVDs or not.

    With my now 220 strong Find-DVD watchlist, I think I'll be staying with DVDs for awhile yet. I forsee many bargains as stores to try to get rid of 'outdated' DVD stock. :-D

    good thing about dvds they certainly became alot cheaper than vhs a lot quicker

    remember the time when 9.99 for a vhs was in the bargain bin

    I was told a pc upscales a normal dvd to 720p or 1080i anyway.

    Apparently if you use ffdshow its better quality than if its left to your graphics card aswell.

    Original Poster Banned

    Iom-RF

    I was told a pc upscales a normal dvd to 720p or 1080i anyway.Apparently … I was told a pc upscales a normal dvd to 720p or 1080i anyway.Apparently if you use ffdshow its better quality than if its left to your graphics card aswell.



    Shame my PC/DVD drive creates a grain effect when playing DVDs. Isn't visible at all when watching files that are on my HDD.

    Need a new PC. ****ing Dell E520 x2...

    Personally I wont buy a DVD over £4 now, unless I really really want it. Bad thing is this place keeps up the supply of temptation even still.

    Aion

    Shame my PC/DVD drive creates a grain effect when playing DVDs. Isn't … Shame my PC/DVD drive creates a grain effect when playing DVDs. Isn't visible at all when watching files that are on my HDD.Need a new PC. ****ing Dell E520 x2...



    You could always get a new dvd-rom drive, Or even a used dvd drive, They're pennies now!

    Original Poster Banned

    Iom-RF

    You could always get a new dvd-rom drive, Or even a used dvd drive, … You could always get a new dvd-rom drive, Or even a used dvd drive, They're pennies now!



    My computer only supports IDE drivers, so I'd need to pay money for an outdated drive.

    I suppose you wouldn't happen to really know of any decent IDE drives selling for "pennies"...wold you?

    martin_909

    "I wouldn't say HD DVDs are that expensive, new DVD releases are around … "I wouldn't say HD DVDs are that expensive, new DVD releases are around the 15, 16 pound mark and the HD DVDs are often just a couple of quid more"That's only true during the first few of weeks on release. After that you can usually pick up recent-release dvds dirt-cheap, either new from supermarkets etc. , or even cheaper used from the likes of Gamestation, Blockbuster etc.Not so with HD dvds or Blu-Ray movies.Like I said in my earlier post, I reckon these new formats have come out far too early and are simply not good value for the average person.Dvd's still have several years left in them IMO, especially at the prices you can pick them up for these days.The upgrade in quality compared to the price of HD/Blu Ray movies/players/TV's just isn't worth it at the moment as far as I'm concerned.Of course, rich people who must have the latest thing will still buy these new formats and that's fair enough. I just don't think they're getting very good value for money.Just my opinion



    You're comparing a mature technology to a brand new one - even allowing for HD DVD being a brand new technology I think it's exceptionally good value for money, far better than I expected.

    I completely disagree with it being too early for this technology, if anything it's slightly later than it should be. Since HDTVs are widespread DVD has been hanging on longer than it should have, furthermore technology doesn't become cheaper on its own - it needs people to buy into the technology and as more people buy into it, the price comes down. Hence first generation of products are expensive with successive models become cheaper and more refined. If you compare HD DVD in a fair manner against DVD, it's actually better value for money - as DVD became mainstream, a budget DVD player was 250 quid and DVDs were two to three times the price of VHS tapes.

    With value for money, I think HD DVD are far better - I can buy 300 for 15 quid on DVD or a far higher quality for 18 quid which makes the DVD look rather poor. The HD DVD will last far longer than the DVD which will continue to look worse as display resolutions increase. With regards to 'bargains', it's not that fair a comparison - as above, a technology needs market penetration before the price comes down. If you want bargains then newer technology is never going to be an option, same for DVD - I remember HMV having racks and racks of VHS tapes for pennies they couldn't shift.

    I take offence at the comment that 'rich people must have these new formats', that's possible the most incorrect part of your post - I am not a rich person (sadly). I paid 100 quid for my HD DVD drive and haven't paid more than 15 quid for any of the handful of DVDs that I own. I don't think that's a lot of money, especially when I see what people spend on disposable items such as drink or cigarettes. If you were arguing cinema prices though, I'd be in full agreement - at 14 quid for a pair of tickets, more and more I wait for the HD DVD release for a similar price.

    John

    Aion

    Shame my PC/DVD drive creates a grain effect when playing DVDs. Isn't … Shame my PC/DVD drive creates a grain effect when playing DVDs. Isn't visible at all when watching files that are on my HDD.Need a new PC. ****ing Dell E520 x2...



    Your PC has a high resolution monitor and your DVDs are low resolution - when the DVD software runs the movie at your monitor resolution, it has to fill in' all the extra pixels that are needed due to the difference in resolutions. The information simply isn't there so the PC has to guess what colour these pixels should be - if on one side it's blue and on the other it's a darker blue then clearly the software should create a blue halfway in between. But if this is being done for millions of pixels trying to fill large gaps then it's going to get these pixels wrong as it has no idea what the picture should be, hence the grainy, noise effect you get. DVDs look better on my 11 inch monitor at 1366x768 than they do on my 17 inch 1920x1200 monitor as for the latter it has to do a massive amount of upscaling.

    CRT TVs are a much lower resolution than a PC monitor (and the 'blur' of CRTs conceals some issues) which is why DVDs look fine on normal TV.

    John

    Original Poster Banned

    Johnmcl7

    I take offence at the comment that 'rich people must have these new … I take offence at the comment that 'rich people must have these new formats', that's possible the most incorrect part of your post - I am not a rich person (sadly). I paid 100 quid for my HD DVD drive and haven't paid more than 15 quid for any of the handful of DVDs that I own. I don't think that's a lot of money, especially when I see what people spend on disposable items such as drink or cigarettes. If you were arguing cinema prices though, I'd be in full agreement - at 14 quid for a pair of tickets, more and more I wait for the HD DVD release for a similar price.



    This issue all depends on your definition of expensive - Your age and how much money you get. £15 per movie seems like an awful lot to me, not even 7 movies for £100. If you compare that to £3-5 per DVD and box set prices...

    The other issue people have is how HD has forced people to upgrade everything - TV, DVD player(s), gaming console(s)...even computers. People do not like to be forced to spend something on what they don't consider a necessity, or in my case don't like to spend money they don't REALLY have.

    Johnmcl7

    Your PC has a high resolution monitor and your DVDs are low resolution - … Your PC has a high resolution monitor and your DVDs are low resolution - when the DVD software runs the movie at your monitor resolution, it has to fill in' all the extra pixels that are needed due to the difference in resolutions. The information simply isn't there so the PC has to guess what colour these pixels should be - if on one side it's blue and on the other it's a darker blue then clearly the software should create a blue halfway in between. But if this is being done for millions of pixels trying to fill large gaps then it's going to get these pixels wrong as it has no idea what the picture should be, hence the grainy, noise effect you get. DVDs look better on my 11 inch monitor at 1366x768 than they do on my 17 inch 1920x1200 monitor as for the latter it has to do a massive amount of upscaling.CRT TVs are a much lower resolution than a PC monitor (and the 'blur' of CRTs conceals some issues) which is why DVDs look fine on normal TV.



    Monitor: 1440x900

    Thanks for the in-depth explanation, appreciate it. Didn't think it was my ancient DVD drive - Don't see the problem when playing games.

    It's a very annoying issue annoying when I don't currently have a TV.

    Iom-RF

    I was told a pc upscales a normal dvd to 720p or 1080i anyway.Apparently … I was told a pc upscales a normal dvd to 720p or 1080i anyway.Apparently if you use ffdshow its better quality than if its left to your graphics card aswell.



    An upscaled picture is absolutely no comparison to an HD/BR DVD - the problem is when the PC upscales, it has no idea what the final picture should look like so it has to guess what colour the pixels should be. With small amounts of upscaling it can get away with this, but the more it upscales and the more guessing it has to do the noisy, grain effect created by the upscaling becomes more intrusive. While some software is better upscaling than others, it can still only guess and quality is not that great.

    If you take a photo at 2MP then resize it to 8MP, it will never be anywhere close to the quality of a photo taken at 8MP. It's the same with DVDs, they offer just over 0.4MP of information whereas a 720p DVD has just under one MP of information and a 1080P DVD is just over 2MP.

    John

    Ah, I thought you meant grain effect as in scratching the discs!!

    You seem to know your stuff John, So what does a standalone dvd upscaler do that a pc can't?, If its just because of resolution, Couldn't the monitor resolution be lowered to suit?

    Aion

    This issue all depends on your definition of expensive - Your age and how … This issue all depends on your definition of expensive - Your age and how much money you get. £15 per movie seems like an awful lot to me, not even 7 movies for £100. If you compare that to £3-5 per DVD and box set prices...The other issue people have is how HD has forced people to upgrade everything - TV, DVD player(s), gaming console(s)...even computers. People do not like to be forced to spend something on what they don't consider a necessity, or in my case don't like to spend money they don't REALLY have.



    It hasn't though as many people already have HD TVs - a few years ago it would have been a more difficult sell but I don't think that's so much the case now. Not quite sure why you have to upgrade your console for HD DVD, if you want to use your console as an HD DVD player you are saving money over buying a dedicated one - the Xbox 360 does not need the HD DVD for gaming. Heck, if you buy the Xbox HD DVD drive you can use it with your TV or PC all for less than the cost of a separate player. HD DVD is also progressive, you get combo discs which means you can use the DVDs in a standard player, there was no way you could ever use a video tape in a DVD drive.

    As for DVDs being 3-5 pounds, that's a completely unfair comparison as those are old DVDs - as I said, brand new DVDs are around the 15 pound mark, a pair of cinema tickets is 13 quid, HD DVDs being 15-18 quid is extremely reasonable. Furthermore, if you look at some of the older HD DVDs, they are down to around the ten pound mark already. If HD DVDs were around the 30 pound mark as DVDs were on their release, I wouldn't have invested in the system and could see your point but to me getting brand new technology with substantial improvements for a few quid more seems a bargain to me.

    I think people need to put this all in perspective, fair enough if it's too expensive currently for an individual to adopt that's perfectly understandable(I often lend my HD DVD equipment to friends so they can see if they think it's worth the extra for them, I never tell them to just go ahead and buy HD DVD) but to claim it's too early and the technology is too expensive is simply not true looking at the market as a whole.

    John

    Iom-RF

    Ah, I thought you meant grain effect as in scratching the discs!!You seem … Ah, I thought you meant grain effect as in scratching the discs!!You seem to know your stuff John, So what does a standalone dvd upscaler do that a pc can't?, If its just because of resolution, Couldn't the monitor resolution be lowered to suit?



    Nothing - they are both doing the same, what I meant was an upscaler bringing a DVD up to HD resolution will not produce as high quality a picture as a native HD source.

    If the DVD player has a good hardware upscaler and the PC is running software with a good upscaler, the quality should be comparable. The advantage of a PC is that you have choice of software to find the quality you want whereas a hardware upscaler is limited to its original setup in general.

    Unfortunately TFT monitors cannot run at lower resolutions without losing quality - if you think of a board with lots of holes and you have lots of coloured pegs, putting them into the holes to make a picture that's how a TFT works. It's fine if you get to use all the holes but if you have to produce the same picture with less holes it's harder as you have to guess where to put the pegs which is never going to be perfect causing a blur. If you set your TFT monitor to a lower resolution you'll notice text particularly or any straight lines are blurry. Ideally you want to match the resolution of your input to the resolution of the monitor.

    The older CRT technology (older TVs, 'big' PC monitors) 'paint' the screen instead which means it doesn't matter what resolution they are running at. This means the quality is the same regardless if you're running at a higher resolution or lower (ignoring issues such as refresh rate to keep it simple)

    John

    Thanks John, That was a well explained indepth answer!

    So basically an upscaled imagine is better than standard as long as the software/hardware guesses the pixel colour right, But an upscaled image isn't near the same quality as that from a HD-dvd or Blu-ray player?

    Yep - although they won't really get it right, some software algorithms for upscaling are better than others. If you'd like some more detail, I think this is a fairly good read:

    en.wikipedia.org/wik…ing

    To be clear though, upscaling is good and I'd definitely recommend it. To give a concrete example, if you have a DVD player you may well have it connected over a scart connection - the TV receives the low resolution, interlaced picture then it upscales this picture to match its own resolution. With an upscaling DVD player, it will be connected via component or HDMI and will upscale the picture to 720p/1080i which the TV will receive and display as is. It will depend on the TV but I find a separate device upscaling to work well - for a while I simply used my PC over VGA and the picture was good. I find the 360 does a reasonable job which is what I use now...the quality was initially horrendous but after one of the dashboard updates they implemented decent upscaling.

    John

    Thanks very much John, Some good info there! :thumbsup:

    Most definitely deserves rep!
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