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    How should Fifa deal with clubs poaching underage players from footy clubs?

    There's been a lot of talk going on about clubs poaching underage players from abroad, as they have different laws but what's the best way to deal with this, as we've seen Chelsea receive a transfer ban until 2011?

    It's a shame that some of these clubs scout players from primary schools and then help develop them, only for a bigger club to poach a potentially worldclass player.

    What are your views on the matter?

    34 Comments

    50 lashes?

    Original Poster

    Babbabooey;6247809

    50 lashes?



    Eye lashes?

    Original Poster

    Apparantly a couple italian clubs are considering going after United for poaching as well...sounds like every club's going to try and receive compensation or make sure poaching clubs receive harsh punishments.

    Looks like it's going to be a busy season for Fifa dealing with divers on top of this. :roll:

    nothing, fact is at that age it is up to the player who they want to play for, they are not in any kind of contract with anyone.

    realfriendlyman;6247889

    Apparantly a couple italian clubs are considering going after United for … Apparantly a couple italian clubs are considering going after United for poaching as well...sounds like every club's going to try and receive compensation or make sure poaching clubs receive harsh punishments.Looks like it's going to be a busy season for Fifa dealing with divers on top of this. :roll:



    Banish man ure to the conference :w00t:

    Another complaint about United

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    It's been going on for years, I don't really think it's right but feel it's a bit harsh if only Chelsea getting done (so far), Why hasn't any other club been done previously? If their going to penalize teams for their wrong doings they should be consistent.

    Platini hates Chelsea, He hates the English, If it was Real Madrid I doubt they'd have received the same punishment.

    again, the players at that age are not in any type of contract, if they choose to play for someone else, tough teetees!.

    If you were 16 playing for scunthorpe and were told you have to stay there till you were 21 or similar, when UTD or Chelsea want you, hmmmmmmm

    kids should only be able to sign for the club nearest to where they live or were born.
    Then at 18 could sign for who they like, but the club that have invested all the time, money and commitment to train them get a transfer fee..........simples:thumbsup:

    Our sunday side at U14 -U16 (jeez that was a long time ago) had quite a few that played for their county, a chelsea rep, an oxford united rep (were in devision 1 at the time) and a portsmouth rep came to scout some players, 3 were "sniped", none went to chelsea 2 went to oxford as that was where they lived close to and was the least change in thier lives, the other went to portsmouth.

    My point is that at that age, gettting scouted and finding out a major league team wants you is like winning the lottery, every schoolboys dream! Keeping them "tied in" somehow is absolute bullflop!

    Original Poster

    DudeyGeeza;6247897

    nothing, fact is at that age it is up to the player who they want to play … nothing, fact is at that age it is up to the player who they want to play for, they are not in any kind of contract with anyone.



    Yeah but the fact that they've invested time, effort and funds into developing the player, surely they deserve something for their investment, as that's what players have become?

    Of course if a bigger club shows interest, then they should be allowed to leave but the club should receive some form of compensation....look at how much Arsenal paid for Theo Walcott and this was before he was allowed to sign a professional contract? :?

    realfriendlyman;6248090

    Yeah but the fact that they've invested time, effort and funds into … Yeah but the fact that they've invested time, effort and funds into developing the player, surely they deserve something for their investment, as that's what players have become?Of course if a bigger club shows interest, then they should be allowed to leave but the club should receive some form of compensation....look at how much Arsenal paid for Theo Walcott and this was before he was allowed to sign a professional contract? :?



    dont get me wrong, I do believe they should get something, but there is simply no legislation that could be inforced to do so.

    It is truly up to the player at that age to decide, pee off his current club or not..

    And in most of these cases, the "player signing fee" paid to the player for moving, is usually greater than anything the club gets, as the club is entitled to nowt, but the big clubs want to give a good incentive for the player to choose them..

    Original Poster

    DudeyGeeza;6248119

    dont get me wrong, I do believe they should get something, but there is … dont get me wrong, I do believe they should get something, but there is simply no legislation that could be inforced to do so.It is truly up to the player at that age to decide, pee off his current club or not..And in most of these cases, the "player signing fee" paid to the player for moving, is usually greater than anything the club gets, as the club is entitled to nowt, but the big clubs want to give a good incentive for the player to choose them..



    Yeah and that's why the smaller clubs should get something out of it to make it worth there while, otherwise these smaller clubs will stop investing millions trying to uncoup a great young talent, as they can't obviously compete with the boys in signing established players.

    I think smaller clubs should get a tribunal fee plus a percentage of any future sales, as most of these clubs discover these talents from the age of 11 and work wonders in teaching them the essential basics, only to lose them for peanuts just as they're about to become a professional.

    Put it this way, I wouldn't be very happy if we lost Jack Wilshire now that the whole world is starting to keep a close eye on him and touting the young talent as the next Lionel Messi.

    Original Poster

    whatsThePoint;6249074

    All players should be born withing 10 miles of the club they play for



    Foreign players are going to be in big trouble then. :giggle:

    I don't think they should restrict young players from moving to bigger clubs, can you imagine if you have no footy teams within 10 miles and the next closest ones are non league but you have the potential to be the worlds best?

    whatsThePoint;6249074

    All players should be born withing 10 miles of the club they play for



    And for the thousands and thousands of people that don't live within 10 miles of a football club?

    whatsThePoint;6249525

    Ok 10 miles not set in stone, but why have foreign players at all, for … Ok 10 miles not set in stone, but why have foreign players at all, for every one here it just means one less place for a talented english player to develope



    I remember the days of only 3 foreign players in the playing line up...

    how it should be!

    Original Poster

    whatsThePoint;6249525

    Ok 10 miles not set in stone, but why have foreign players at all, for … Ok 10 miles not set in stone, but why have foreign players at all, for every one here it just means one less place for a talented english player to develope



    But look how much foreign players have improved our game, Players such as Bergkamp and Zola showed english players much needed creativity and made the best try even harder to improve their gameplay and become better players.

    Not only that but they improved the entertainment aspect of the game as a whole for the spectators, as the majority of the best players in the premier league are foreign, such as Torres, Drogba, Arshavin etc.

    Like I said, if local talent aren't good enough, then they'll play in the lower leagues, whereas if they have the right mentality, they'll learn a lot from the best players around the world and become even better players. :thumbsup:

    DudeyGeeza;6249539

    I remember the days of only 3 foreign players in the playing line … I remember the days of only 3 foreign players in the playing line up...how it should be!



    Yeah I remember them well like when United got walloped by Barca 4-0 because they could only play 3 foreigners and had to drop Schmeichel lol

    Original Poster

    DudeyGeeza;6249539

    I remember the days of only 3 foreign players in the playing line … I remember the days of only 3 foreign players in the playing line up...how it should be!



    Turkey have a rule like that and it's literally stopping them from becoming a better team.

    I think they're allowed to have a maximum of 5/6 foreign players (non turkish) within the entire squad, including back ups etc, so this isn't just restricted to players in the starting 11 and on the bench.

    There's a few turkish teams with a huge wealth behind them but the rules are preventing them from buying more players, as there's not enough quality turkish players to keep the team balanced.

    Imagine if England had the same ruling, where every team required to have at least 8 English players in the starting line up...what would happen to the league?
    There's no way 20 premier league teams are going to have quality all over the pitch, hell, I remember England had a huge problem in the left back birth before Cashley Cole came along, so what was going to happen to the 20 teams that required a left back, rely on lower league quality players?

    There simply is not enough quality players to keep a rule like that when there's so much money circulating in the game, football is a multi billion pound industry and any such rule of the sort would destroy the game.

    Original Poster

    whatsThePoint;6249617

    1966 no foreign players (that i can think of)and we win the world cup … 1966 no foreign players (that i can think of)and we win the world cup just when will this improvement start?



    That was over 40 years ago....the game has changed in many ways since then.

    The game is a lot faster, much more technical and entertaining than ever before, so the standards are a lot higher.

    Banned

    we received £5 million for 2 young players from chelsea who they poached 2 years ago which have never been heard of since...... tom taiwo and michael woods

    we also just received the following from everton deceided this week for luke garbut

    Leeds United will receive an initial payment of £600,000 from Everton for their former academy defender Luke Garbutt - with the fee potentially rising to more than £1.5million.
    United have been awarded the cash after the Professional Football Compensation Committee (PFCC) were asked to decide Garbutt's value following his move from Leeds to Everton in July.

    The Elland Road club rejected an initial offer of £200,000 from Everton and were awarded an initial fee of £600,000 at a tribunal yesterday.

    Further payments of £150,000 will be received after 16-year-old Garbutt makes 5, 10, 20, 30 and 40 appearances for Everton, up to a maximum of £750,000, and United will receive an additional £200,000 should the defender make a full international appearance for England.

    A statement read: "In setting this compensation fee, the PFCC took into account the costs of training and development, the player's age and playing record, the length of time he was registered with his former club, the terms offered by both clubs, the status of the two clubs, previous committee decisions and the interest shown by other clubs in acquiring the registration of the player."


    i sometimes think we are the only club capable of creating decent home grown talent.....shame we are not in a better position to benefit from the players.........the cash is always good tho and keeps us as 1 of the few clubs in the black

    Arsenal rarely has any English in their starting lineup

    Original Poster

    DudeyGeeza;6249720

    Arsenal rarely has any English in their starting lineup



    Don't worry, we have Gibbs and Wilshire who are both outstanding talents, plus Theo, who banged in a hattrick against Croatia the last time they played.

    Regardless, look at how Arsenal are one of the most entertaining teams to watch in world football over the last 10 odd years. :thumbsup:

    Original Poster

    casparwhite;6249696

    we received £5 million for 2 young players from chelsea who they poached … we received £5 million for 2 young players from chelsea who they poached 2 years ago which have never been heard of since...... tom taiwo and michael woods we also just received the following from everton deceided this week for luke garbutLeeds United will receive an initial payment of £600,000 from Everton for their former academy defender Luke Garbutt - with the fee potentially rising to more than £1.5million.United have been awarded the cash after the Professional Football Compensation Committee (PFCC) were asked to decide Garbutt's value following his move from Leeds to Everton in July.The Elland Road club rejected an initial offer of £200,000 from Everton and were awarded an initial fee of £600,000 at a tribunal yesterday.Further payments of £150,000 will be received after 16-year-old Garbutt makes 5, 10, 20, 30 and 40 appearances for Everton, up to a maximum of £750,000, and United will receive an additional £200,000 should the defender make a full international appearance for England.A statement read: "In setting this compensation fee, the PFCC took into account the costs of training and development, the player's age and playing record, the length of time he was registered with his former club, the terms offered by both clubs, the status of the two clubs, previous committee decisions and the interest shown by other clubs in acquiring the registration of the player."i sometimes think we are the only club capable of creating decent home grown talent.....shame we are not in a better position to benefit from the players.........the cash is always good tho and keeps us as 1 of the few clubs in the black



    I don't think the powers that be, should impose payments on player appearances, as clubs are more reluctant to give players appearances incase the talent isn't good enough, therefore costing them more money on talent they may deem useless.
    It also means they're less likely to bring up and coming players off the bench because that last 5 minutes of the game appearance could cost them an extra £100,000, where they may make no impact.

    I think a percentage of the players huge sales would be a better way to perform this, as hardly any players in the game remain at the same club for the remainder of their careers these days anyway.

    Regardless, english teams should be fielding a majority of ENGLISH players, money or not. But it will never change back now..

    Banned

    realfriendlyman;6249813

    I don't think the powers that be, should impose payments on player … I don't think the powers that be, should impose payments on player appearances, as clubs are more reluctant to give players appearances incase the talent isn't good enough, therefore costing them more money on talent they may deem useless.It also means they're less likely to bring up and coming players off the bench because that last 5 minutes of the game appearance could cost them an extra £100,000, where they may make no impact.I think a percentage of the players huge sales would be a better way to perform this, as hardly any players in the game remain at the same club for the remainder of their careers these days anyway.



    well if clubs went about the business a little bit more transparently then the powers that be wouldnt have to impose such penalties on the said clubs.....the clubs who do business like this should be punished even more than they have......manchester utd have always done business like this and are up there with chelsea as the biggest offenders.
    as for the payments......

    if a player is good enough to play for the first team and is requireed these relatively small payments mean nothing......it is compensation for not doing business the right way in the first place.....

    we invest a lot into our academy and require compensation if clubs are gonna poach our talent because most clubs arent good enough at producing their own...

    delph, milner, lennon, carson......all from leeds academy and all vying for england caps .......i dont think there is a better academy in the country tbh

    Original Poster

    casparwhite;6249933

    well if clubs went about the business a little bit more transparently … well if clubs went about the business a little bit more transparently then the powers that be wouldnt have to impose such penalties on the said clubs.....the clubs who do business like this should be punished even more than they have......manchester utd have always done business like this and are up there with chelsea as the biggest offenders.as for the payments......if a player is good enough to play for the first team and is requireed these relatively small payments mean nothing......it is compensation for not doing business the right way in the first place.....we invest a lot into our academy and require compensation if clubs are gonna poach our talent because most clubs arent good enough at producing their own...delph, milner, lennon, carson......all from leeds academy and all vying for england caps .......i dont think there is a better academy in the country tbh



    Yeah but how does young players get into the first team, they're not thrown straight into the starting 11, as they're bled through slowly?

    I agree, they need to look after the smaller clubs, which if you read my earlier comments, you'll see I was backing clubs like Leeds, as they can't compete with bigger clubs in buying established players and require to invest in academies instead.
    I still feel sell on fees should be brought in for poached players, as none of the players remain at bigger clubs forever.

    whatsThePoint;6249966

    Then get the trainers to bring our players up to those standards



    It's not a simple case of bringing in better trainers, as it's also about the mentality and players background i.e African players seem to be more rough and tough and have higher levels of desire to be successful, whereas brazilian players are more technical, as kids regularly play in the streets for any form of entertainment, as they can't afford computer games etc.

    Banned

    realfriendlyman;6249662

    That was over 40 years ago....the game has changed in many ways since … That was over 40 years ago....the game has changed in many ways since then.The game is a lot faster, much more technical and entertaining than ever before, so the standards are a lot higher.



    Absolutely true. The type of people who talk about limiting foreigners in teams are the types of people who landed us with Steve McClaren.

    FilthAndFurry;6250053

    Absolutely true. The type of people who talk about limiting foreigners in … Absolutely true. The type of people who talk about limiting foreigners in teams are the types of people who landed us with Steve McClaren.



    agree :thumbsup: i think teams should favour signing domestic players but if theres a better foriegn player why shouldnt they sign him :?

    FilthAndFurry;6250053

    Absolutely true. The type of people who talk about limiting foreigners in … Absolutely true. The type of people who talk about limiting foreigners in teams are the types of people who landed us with Steve McClaren.



    yeah, the type of people that have cow avatars are the type of people that hang around primary schools..

    Oh if only there was a young professional, or even semi-professional, player on here who could give us an opinion...............................

    Banned

    realfriendlyman;6250026

    Yeah but how does young players get into the first team, they're not … Yeah but how does young players get into the first team, they're not thrown straight into the starting 11, as they're bled through slowly?I agree, they need to look after the smaller clubs, which if you read my earlier comments, you'll see I was backing clubs like Leeds, as they can't compete with bigger clubs in buying established players and require to invest in academies instead.I still feel sell on fees should be brought in for poached players, as none of the players remain at bigger clubs forever..



    lol smaller clubs........leeds we are talking about here!!!!!!!! massiveee club mate and all clubs should be investing in academys not the smaller 1's anyways........our academy came when we were at our height and had the money to invest in the facilities etc.......small clubs dont have that kind of spare cash im afraid

    sell on fees are already incorporated into the terms mate........i feel we got a decent pay out from chelsea for 2 unknowns and the cash that everton are being made to pay is a huge increase on the 200 grand they offered us.....

    ill give master bates props there.....he knows which screws to turn when it comes to money.....shame we dont see any of it as a football club, seems to dissapear into a black hole.....premiership prices for tickets, got to pay to even listen to it on the radio and we are in the 3rd tier of football......god knows whats gonna happen when we get back up there.....

    well we do know.............he'll sell it

    btw 14 consecutive home wins and counting......:whistling:

    Banned

    Cant see what the problem is. Small clubs have always provided the bigger clubs with players. Its how it always has been and always will be.

    I'm sure teams in League 1 and 2 poach players from the even lower leagues. More fool them if they don't.

    Banned

    guv;6250379

    Cant see what the problem is. Small clubs have always provided the bigger … Cant see what the problem is. Small clubs have always provided the bigger clubs with players. Its how it always has been and always will be.I'm sure teams in League 1 and 2 poach players from the even lower leagues. More fool them if they don't.



    yes we are all aware that it goes on as that is how football works........ but its the underhand way some clubs are doing it which is not acceptable which was the mnain point of the op

    we picked up beckford from wealdston and what a bargain he turned out to be:thumbsup:

    its a shame that some of the "larger" clubs cant play by the rules or bring their own younger players through development instead of just poaching and using bully tactics.......seems ridiculous when the main culprits pay 100's of thousands of pounds in weekly wages to single players

    ban them as they have... fingers crossed that appeal is heard before the transfer window opens and it gets increased

    Banned

    whatsThePoint;6259465

    Or they are the type who think how stupid to pay £1000's a week to … Or they are the type who think how stupid to pay £1000's a week to someone just to kick a ball as little as once a match Or someone who has no interest in football and only posted a reply to see who get winded up Or someone who thinks what is there to support in a team if none of them are even english Or someone who thinks who cares its only a game Or someone like me who thinks all of the above



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    It is, I agree.
    Congratulations on multi-tasking.
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