Howdens

47
Posted 28th Nov
We recently purchased a kitchen from Howdens. Upon delivery we discovered 50% of the kitchen missing and the remaining items significantly damaged. On looking into this, we have just realised they should NOT of sold to us (general public) as they only sell to trade. We DO NOT have a trade account! Something fraudulently has happened here, has anyone had any similar experiences please? Its 30 days before Christmas, we have no kitchen or bathroom and are in complete turmoil. Would appreciate any replies or advice! Thanks 😔
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Go back to them.
Yes you can buy from them as non trade.
They were probably trying to do you a favour selling at discount, go back and tell them what you paid for is missing.


hotukdeals.com/dis…955
Welcome to hotukdeals. Your first post contribution is appeciated.
Could you expand on your definition of fraudulent? Thanks.
39161119-FxlRz.jpg
Its Howdens, they are crap. Where do you live, I could maybe suggest somewhere else to go.
i always thought howdens was supposed to be good. nothing fraudulent about selling to the general public when they should only sell to trade. other retailers do it at their discretion as they sell at a discount so they prefer to sell to tradespeople as they get return custom.

sorry to hear of your woes. i have had similar experience with B&Q, but not half of the kitchen missing. you will have to go back to them to get the missing items delivered and exchange of damaged items. a bit faffing about, but not much you can do, part and parcel of buying a kitchen in my experience. i really hate putting in new kitchens simply because of the drama that you normally have to go through, especially if you don't even live there.
Slightly off subject but John Lewis kitchens are made by Wentworth (or certainly used to be). If you see a range you like in JL and call Wentworth they will direct you to your nearest kitchen installer. Savings should be around 40%.

I used to have details of a company that asked you to pay the £50 JL charge for plans, then email those plans to them for even greater savings. That requires a kitchen installer to do the job for you though. If I can find the company details i'll post here
OllieSt28/11/2019 18:41

Slightly off subject but John Lewis kitchens are made by Wentworth (or …Slightly off subject but John Lewis kitchens are made by Wentworth (or certainly used to be). If you see a range you like in JL and call Wentworth they will direct you to your nearest kitchen installer. Savings should be around 40%.I used to have details of a company that asked you to pay the £50 JL charge for plans, then email those plans to them for even greater savings. That requires a kitchen installer to do the job for you though. If I can find the company details i'll post here


i am looking to put a new kitchen next year so this is very helpful information. i will note this down
OllieSt28/11/2019 18:41

Slightly off subject but John Lewis kitchens are made by Wentworth (or …Slightly off subject but John Lewis kitchens are made by Wentworth (or certainly used to be). If you see a range you like in JL and call Wentworth they will direct you to your nearest kitchen installer. Savings should be around 40%.I used to have details of a company that asked you to pay the £50 JL charge for plans, then email those plans to them for even greater savings. That requires a kitchen installer to do the job for you though. If I can find the company details i'll post here


Interested in this too. Thanks.
I'll look for the name. Meraway is also another kitchen manufacturer that John Lewis use

In fact looking around JL seemed to be using Meraway now as their main supplier.


Another thing to note nearly all of the so called high end German manufactured kitchens found in the UK are nothing more than the B&Q German equivalent at top dollar prices.
Edited by: "OllieSt" 28th Nov
I've always assumed they are trade only to avoid consumer protection laws.
Good evening.

We recently had a kitchen designed, delivered and paid for it without a trade account or consulting any kind of builder at all. A builder friend found this very strange.

When it was delivered, over half of it was missing or damaged, but before calling at the store, my partner rang head office and they were adamant, that without a trade account we should not have been able to purchase it. They checked my details and could find no trace of an account in my name, my payment or anything related to my address. The delivery firm actually had an address a 100yds or so down the road. Yet our address is on all our invoices???

Anyway, we queried how this was possible and were immediately offered a full refund!

Just 4wks before Christmas and currently without a kitchen, my partner said this was unacceptable and we would like the missing items AND it fitted as we had now lost our very busy builder!! The store manager that sold it to us is coming here tomorrow to discuss it.

But I’ve been thinking, and as I don’t have a trade account and Howdens have no record of my transaction, then who did I pay (in store) my £4.5k to???

I suspect, that the very nice designer that sold it to “us” at her first offer price has actually sold it to “Bob the Builder” through his trade account, for maybe £1000+ cheaper and I have then bought it from Bob.

Far fetched? I don’t think so.

Clever? Yes.

Devious? Definitely!!

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

matthew.hagerty29/11/2019 00:16

... Devious? Definitely!! Your thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks in …... Devious? Definitely!! Your thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.


Your partner signed up here and posted earlier? Then you signed up and posted. My thought is that I'm looking forward to the next installment after signup of Cedrick your cat, or Desmond your dog.
i think the OP is referring to the fact that Howdens CANNOT process a sale to anyone without a trade account.

Therefore I am guessing, that somebody at Howdens is creating rogue trade accounts and processing customers’ money through them at a an agreed price and then (possibly) “selling” it to the rogue trade account at a substantially lower amount and pocketing the difference. Just a hunch!!
Wtf are you talking about AndyRoyd???

The fact of the matter is, we have paid £4.5k to an imaginary person/account that has then paid Howdens for a kitchen that has been delivered to us. Ignore the damages and missing items, that is fraud. The person that conducted those events has my card details and a scanned copy of my driving licence for some unknown reason
matthew.hagerty29/11/2019 05:13

i think the OP is referring to the fact that Howdens CANNOT process a sale …i think the OP is referring to the fact that Howdens CANNOT process a sale to anyone without a trade account. Therefore I am guessing...


I'm guessing the merchant can process a sale to whoever it chooses and there is no legislation that prevents a supplier not processing a sale to any particular group, except possibly the usual discrimination groups.
matthew.hagerty29/11/2019 05:23

...The person that conducted those events has my card details and a …...The person that conducted those events has my card details and a scanned copy of my driving licence for some unknown reason


I'm guessing you gave the person that info, or are you suggesting they were a pickpocket?
matthew.hagerty29/11/2019 05:23

...we have paid £4.5k to an imaginary person/account...


What is the name of the imaginary person/company on your card statement?
AndyRoyd29/11/2019 06:02

What is the name of the imaginary person/company on your card statement?


My guess is that it was a cash transaction, very dumb if it was
Sc4mp029/11/2019 06:07

My guess is that it was a cash transaction, very dumb if it was …My guess is that it was a cash transaction, very dumb if it was


"...The person that conducted those events has my card details..." suggests card transaction, unless the card was purely for ID, but as cash is, er, cash, I doubt any ID would be reqd for a cash sale, unless Howdens is a known easy target for money laundering so Howdens has put processes in place to prevent fake customers laundering money through imaginary persons / companies. I really wanna hear what the cat has to say about this.
"We recently purchased a kitchen from Howdens. Upon delivery we discovered 50% of the kitchen missing and the remaining items significantly damaged... Its 30 days before Christmas, we have no kitchen or bathroom and are in complete turmoil..."
Did you not buy a bathroom as well as a kitchen, or do you just not have a bathroom (which would be kinda weird)?
AndyRoyd29/11/2019 06:23

"...The person that conducted those events has my card details..." …"...The person that conducted those events has my card details..." suggests card transaction, unless the card was purely for ID, but as cash is, er, cash, I doubt any ID would be reqd for a cash sale, unless Howdens is a known easy target for money laundering so Howdens has put processes in place to prevent fake customers laundering money through imaginary persons / companies. I really wanna hear what the cat has to say about this.


I completely missed that part of their paragraph, apologies.

Surely if it was card payment that went through Howdens that would all be recorded and they'd easily find the transaction then,havibh a quick read online it seems Howdens has a bit if a rep, plus a few non trade people said they opened accounts for them as well.
Sc4mp029/11/2019 06:32

I completely missed that part of their paragraph, apologies.Surely if it …I completely missed that part of their paragraph, apologies.Surely if it was card payment that went through Howdens that would all be recorded and they'd easily find the transaction then,havibh a quick read online it seems Howdens has a bit if a rep, plus a few non trade people said they opened accounts for them as well.


OP & random geezer/partner is suggesting that the person in store who processed the transaction had their own card reader, took the 4.5 large, used some of that money to buy 50% of a kitchen and some busted bits for Bob the builder down the road and pocketed the rest of the cash. Same person may or may not have lifted OPs bathroom (although my money's on Bob). Sounds like a banging genius cunning scam and I'm surprised there aren't more sales people at it.
AndyRoyd29/11/2019 04:56

Your partner signed up here and posted earlier? Then you signed up and …Your partner signed up here and posted earlier? Then you signed up and posted. My thought is that I'm looking forward to the next installment after signup of Cedrick your cat, or Desmond your dog.



Bob the Builder's cat is called Pilchard.
Farmer Percy Pickles has a dog called Scruffty.

39176684-Az8Rx.jpg
fanpages29/11/2019 09:04

Bob the Builder's cat is called Pilchard.Farmer Percy Pickles has a dog …Bob the Builder's cat is called Pilchard.Farmer Percy Pickles has a dog called Scruffty.[Image]


Ah, so Bob the builder down the road has a cat called Pilchard. Are you suggesting Pilchard has acted in collusion with OPs cat Cedrick? We've yet to hear from Cedrick but this seems quite a complex fraud using animals as stooges.
@Adele_Forbes and @matthew.hagerty : as the story of half a kitchen and a disappearing bathroom is possibly beyond the comprehension of us simpletons on a bargain hunting forum, here's my positive suggestion:
hit Howdens with a "subject access request" (SAR) from the person(s) that believes they have had a relationship with Howdens. This is a straightforward request for data. The SAR is not a vehicle for a rant; nor should your SAR state why you are submitting the SAR.
Howdens are required to supply all the personal information that Howdens hold about you(s). Your request should be for "any record that personally identifies (insert your name[s])" and additionally should ideally specifically state expected examples of:
order forms
payment processing confirmations
picking lists
delivery notes
invoices
internal communications mentioning your name(s) both in-store and with external offices (very important)
any CCTV footage (...when I attended store on dd mm yyy between approximate times of hh mm and hhh mmm, especially at the counter located at [insert description}...).
This information should typically be provided within 30days.
You can then decide if your suspicions warrant relaying of events history to a more appropriate organisation other than a bargain hunting forum.
More info at
ico.org.uk/you…ta/
with guide on how to ask at
ico.org.uk/you…st/
and you can read how Howdens are obliged to approach your SAR here:
ico.org.uk/for…ss/
ico.org.uk/med…pdf
Good luck. And my regards to Cedrick and Desmond.
matthew.hagerty29/11/2019 00:16

...The store manager that sold it to us is coming here tomorrow to discuss …...The store manager that sold it to us is coming here tomorrow to discuss it...


@matthew.hagerty Did the store manager manage to explain the management of your order today?
AndyRoyd29/11/2019 18:45

@matthew.hagerty Did the store manager manage to explain the management …@matthew.hagerty Did the store manager manage to explain the management of your order today?


I want to know how they were offered a full refund immediately without any investigation when there is no record of this transaction or the ops details on the system.
Sc4mp029/11/2019 19:19

I want to know how they were offered a full refund immediately without any …I want to know how they were offered a full refund immediately without any investigation when there is no record of this transaction or the ops details on the system.


The implication by OP and random geezer is that Howdens recognised the suggested "fraud" by its employee and has acted promptly to save face. Very commendable of Howdens I'd say. Probably find that the refund was accelerated by RG sending Desmond the dog round there to coerce a prompt response.
Still waiting for the definitive story from Howden's manager though. But we're still none the wiser about who had it away on their toes with OPs bathroom.
AndyRoyd29/11/2019 06:02

What is the name of the imaginary person/company on your card statement?


It says Howdens on my online bank statement. If Bob has a trade account with them, the card could hypothetically have been used to clear Bobs slate which he incurred when buying the kitchen, and leave him with an extra grand or so!! :/
matthew.hagerty29/11/2019 23:14

It says Howdens on my online bank statement. If Bob has a trade account …It says Howdens on my online bank statement. If Bob has a trade account with them, the card could hypothetically have been used to clear Bobs slate which he incurred when buying the kitchen, and leave him with an extra grand or so!! :/


Ah, so you paid the cost you expected to pay to the company you expected to pay, you recieved a company receipt/invoice with your name & address on, the stuff turned up but was incomplete and busted and addressed to Bob the builder down the road, and you were given a full refund from the company you originally paid? Sounds like some jobsworth just selected a previously used nearby address for the delivery address and somebody else may have attempted to correct the mistake (either way) after the event, rather than a cunning plot to extort zero money from you.
And yet it's still not clear who stole Ms. Forbes' bathroom nor when
He was extremely apologetic and empathetic throughout. He admitted that she broke company rules to push our sale through under some kind of referral from someone else that works there. She obviously did all this without our knowledge, but she only did so, according to the manager so she could give us the cheapest price possible!! Cheaper even than if we’d followed the company policy and employed a trade account holder to purchase it. He denied that there was an account set up by her (and possibly him) to take my payment. She also denied taking a photocopy of my driving licence, but the SAR CCTV would prove that she did. If we needed it that is. Because, despite his apparent honesty and integrity, as a gesture of goodwill, he is sourcing the missing items and has already issued a full refund, which I’m guessing is from her (and possibly his) pockets!! Better than losing your job and, depending on the scale of their scam, possibly going to jail. Merry Kitchen 🎄 🐈 dog
AndyRoyd29/11/2019 23:31

Ah, so you paid the cost you expected to pay to the company you expected …Ah, so you paid the cost you expected to pay to the company you expected to pay, you recieved a company receipt/invoice with your name & address on, the stuff turned up but was incomplete and busted and addressed to Bob the builder down the road, and you were given a full refund from the company you originally paid? Sounds like some jobsworth just selected a previously used nearby address for the delivery address and somebody else may have attempted to correct the mistake (either way) after the event, rather than a cunning plot to extort zero money from you.And yet it's still not clear who stole Ms. Forbes' bathroom nor when



Fraud and extortion are completely different things Andrew. I bet the cheeky buggers were claiming the VAT back on my money in Bobs account as well.
AndyRoyd29/11/2019 18:45

@matthew.hagerty Did the store manager manage to explain the management …@matthew.hagerty Did the store manager manage to explain the management of your order today?



You'll need the order manager to do that.
fanpages30/11/2019 00:22

You'll need the order manager to do that.


The normal order of responsibility would be for the branch manager to order the lesser order manager to put the correct response in order.
matthew.hagerty30/11/2019 00:12

Fraud and extortion are completely different things Andrew. I bet the …Fraud and extortion are completely different things Andrew. I bet the cheeky buggers were claiming the VAT back on my money in Bobs account as well.


Andrew, Andreas, Andrea, Andrei, Andres, all water off a duck's rear to me. My money is on a simple incorrect correction to allocation of order / address, but my money isn't 4.5 large so I'm a little less blinkered in my thoughts. Did Mr. Manager show face or not?
AndyRoyd30/11/2019 00:25

The normal order of responsibility would be for the branch manager to …The normal order of responsibility would be for the branch manager to order the lesser order manager to put the correct response in order.



Oh... I think we're going to need a business analyst in a moment.
matthew.hagerty30/11/2019 00:06

He was extremely apologetic and empathetic throughout. He admitted that …He was extremely apologetic and empathetic throughout. He admitted that she broke company rules to push our sale through under some kind of referral from someone else that works there. She obviously did all this without our knowledge, but she only did so, according to the manager so she could give us the cheapest price possible!! Cheaper even than if we’d followed the company policy and employed a trade account holder to purchase it. He denied that there was an account set up by her (and possibly him) to take my payment. She also denied taking a photocopy of my driving licence, but the SAR CCTV would prove that she did. If we needed it that is. Because, despite his apparent honesty and integrity, as a gesture of goodwill, he is sourcing the missing items and has already issued a full refund, which I’m guessing is from her (and possibly his) pockets!! Better than losing your job and, depending on the scale of their scam, possibly going to jail. Merry Kitchen 🎄 🐈 dog


Respect. This actually sounds like a good outcome for you, and I hope my suggestion of hitting Howdens with an SAR proves fruitful.
matthew.hagerty30/11/2019 00:06

He was extremely apologetic and empathetic throughout. He admitted that …He was extremely apologetic and empathetic throughout. He admitted that she broke company rules to push our sale through under some kind of referral from someone else that works there. She obviously did all this without our knowledge, but she only did so, according to the manager so she could give us the cheapest price possible!! Cheaper even than if we’d followed the company policy and employed a trade account holder to purchase it. He denied that there was an account set up by her (and possibly him) to take my payment. She also denied taking a photocopy of my driving licence, but the SAR CCTV would prove that she did. If we needed it that is. Because, despite his apparent honesty and integrity, as a gesture of goodwill, he is sourcing the missing items and has already issued a full refund, which I’m guessing is from her (and possibly his) pockets!! Better than losing your job and, depending on the scale of their scam, possibly going to jail. Merry Kitchen 🎄 🐈 dog



I sincerely hope somebody in that conversation said, "Can We Fix it?".

If not, I'm really confused who was playing Bob.
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