HUKD Negativity

35
Posted 18th Nov
I often post deals regarding 5* hotels and Business Class travel and am entirely unconcerned by the fact that many struggle in the barely warm regions.
What I do find irritating is that there is a substantial cohort of hukd members who habitually vote cold deals that they manifestly know nothing whatsoever about. Critical comments are the bread and butter of this site but uninformed opinion contributes nothing. I found myself in the habit of clicking on the histories of these comment authors to find that the overwhelming majority contributed either nothing whatsoever or pitifully little by way of posted deals.
Would it not be a good idea to remove voting 'powers' from keyboard warriors who contribute nothing
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All Peppers plattforms are just toxic and it starts with the admin/mods. I don't bother to post anything anymore.
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Oh dear, that’s done it. 123 go.
All Peppers plattforms are just toxic and it starts with the admin/mods. I don't bother to post anything anymore.
The negativity is across the site as a whole it’s not just on your 5* luxury travel post.

People vote however they see fit, yep definitely is frustrating when perfectly good deals go cold but what can you do about it.

It’s hard to take the voting system seriously anymore when a 1p saving on a chocolate orange reached the highlights last week and over 1400 degrees.

hotukdeals.com/dea…451

yet this nearly £90 saving and 52% saving on popular trainers went cold

hotukdeals.com/dea…384

HUKD’s do take away voting rights from serial cold voters as I have seen threads on it in discussions.

The way I see it is you have two options.

Don’t post the deals you find

Or post the deals and ignore the cold votes and negative comments.
myusernamehasgone23418/11/2019 09:12

The negativity is across the site as a whole it’s not just on your 5* l …The negativity is across the site as a whole it’s not just on your 5* luxury travel post.People vote however they see fit, yep definitely is frustrating when perfectly good deals go cold but what can you do about it.It’s hard to take the voting system seriously anymore when a 1p saving on a chocolate orange reached the highlights last week and over 1400 degrees.https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/terrys-chocolate-orange-dark-157g-at-lidl-3329451yet this nearly £90 saving and 52% saving on popular trainers went coldhttps://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/nike-air-vapourmax-plus-trainers-now-8159-size-78-9-95-10-11-115-13-at-zalando-3321384HUKD’s do take away voting rights from serial cold voters as I have seen threads on it in discussions.The way I see it is you have two options.Don’t post the deals you findOr post the deals and ignore the cold votes and negative comments.


I'm with you 100% on this. I think people vote cold on things they either don't understand or don't like whether it's a good deal or not.
To me, that 1p saving was a bit of fun but no way it should have ever been on the highlights page and another case of people seeing something hot and voting it up regardless.
I used to get annoyed with cold votes for no reason but don't let it bother me any more (as much as possible)
For me, I'd prefer it if cold voters left a comment to explain but not sure how this would be enforced without making it unworkable.
I think you should have to go into the deal to vote though, removing the quick vote option from the overview screen would help imo
jayhutton1018/11/2019 10:28

...people vote cold on things they... don't like whether it's a good deal …...people vote cold on things they... don't like whether it's a good deal or not.To me...


I have edited your text to make this point:

Yes, subjective voting on any factor (not even) connected to the subject of the "Deal" is the way the voting system was designed to be used.

The best "Deal" is a subjective* view of anything to do with the product thread (such as the merchant's past history, the non-guaranteed cashback, the colour/dimensions of the item, any comparative products, the day of the week, whether the member voting had run out of butter for their morning toast, or anything else connected/unconnected with the "Deal"), apparently.

(* Not everybody is you, hence why voting differs)

A previous thread of note...

"Can we please have the rules/guidelines on Voting made more clear??"

Specifically, this comment from @juliet_bravo (Aug 23, 2010 14:42)...
---
Taken from the original help & advice panel-

If you are cold voting a deal, it is good forum etiquette to post a note in the deal as to why you have done so. There is nothing more confusing to a new member, than to post a deal, only to see it go cold with no explanation. If you found the item cheaper elsewhere, please let us know where and how. If you have no interest or knowledge about the deal at all, please don’t vote cold, just move on.

HUKD has systems in place to detect serial cold voters, and it may lead to a ban from the forums, as it is against the code of conduct.


If members feel an apple product, for example, is comparable with another item and they do not think the apple represents good value, then of course they should state that within the thread. However we cannot be too strict with regards to forcing members to justify their votes. It will be detrimental to how the site works and the organic nature in which "hot" deals are voted as such.
---
This serial voting is an issue, but Pepper themselves cause this. Last year there was a competition (several in fact) and the criteria for one was to have voted X amount of times. The criteria for another was to have commented X amount of times. So people must open a deal and vote, hit or cold they don't care, and move on.
Also, there are the 'badges'... same thing really.
Only thing you can guarantee on here is grief in posts and hit deals posted by any member of site staff.
eslick18/11/2019 12:08

Only thing you can guarantee on here is grief in posts and hit deals …Only thing you can guarantee on here is grief in posts and hit deals posted by any member of site staff.


I saw a trade-in "Deal" post by @BuzzDuraband recently that only got to +82 degrees...

"Limited Edition Death Stranding 1TB PS4 Pro console - £169.99 (When you trade in a 500Gb Slim Console - other options available) - Game"

39019419-BpH7Y.jpg
[ hotukdeals.com/dea…301 ]

In fact, by the time I had gone to GAME's site & checked the terms of the trade-in (but could not find any reference to the offer on their site) & then returned to HotUKDeals.com, the thread had been removed & replaced with "Awwww snap. This post no longer exists!".

Perhaps somebody had advance notification of an upcoming offer & posted it too early.
fanpages18/11/2019 12:19

I saw a trade-in "Deal" post by @BuzzDuraband recently that only got to …I saw a trade-in "Deal" post by @BuzzDuraband recently that only got to +82 degrees..."Limited Edition Death Stranding 1TB PS4 Pro console - £169.99 (When you trade in a 500Gb Slim Console - other options available) - Game"[Image] [ https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/limited-edition-death-stranding-1tb-ps4-pro-console-16999-when-you-trade-in-a-500gb-slim-console-game-3332301 ]In fact, by the time I had gone to GAME's site & checked the terms of the trade-in (but could not find any reference to the offer on their site) & then returned to HotUKDeals.com, the thread had been removed & replaced with "Awwww snap. This post no longer exists!".Perhaps somebody had advance notification of an upcoming offer & posted it too early.


I'd completely messed up the trade in price additional costs. It didn't seem fair to adjust them to their accurate amounts and leave the thread active after it had gained so much heat with incorrect information.

It was Friday. I'm going with, and sticking to that.
BuzzDuraband18/11/2019 12:22

I'd completely messed up the trade in price additional costs. It didn't …I'd completely messed up the trade in price additional costs. It didn't seem fair to adjust them to their accurate amounts and leave the thread active after it had gained so much heat with incorrect information.It was Friday. I'm going with, and sticking to that.





I could not see any mention of the offer on GAME's site.

Where you were just playing with current trade-in prices of the named consoles in the thread description & there was not a specific offer available that was being promoted by the retailer?
fanpages18/11/2019 12:25

I could not see any mention of the offer on GAME's site.Where you were … I could not see any mention of the offer on GAME's site.Where you were just playing with current trade-in prices of the named consoles in the thread description & there was not a specific offer available that was being promoted by the retailer?


It's on their site, here. The offer has been active since the 15th November.
fanpages18/11/2019 12:19

I saw a trade-in "Deal" post by @BuzzDuraband recently that only got to …I saw a trade-in "Deal" post by @BuzzDuraband recently that only got to +82 degrees..."Limited Edition Death Stranding 1TB PS4 Pro console - £169.99 (When you trade in a 500Gb Slim Console - other options available) - Game"[Image] [ https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/limited-edition-death-stranding-1tb-ps4-pro-console-16999-when-you-trade-in-a-500gb-slim-console-game-3332301 ]In fact, by the time I had gone to GAME's site & checked the terms of the trade-in (but could not find any reference to the offer on their site) & then returned to HotUKDeals.com, the thread had been removed & replaced with "Awwww snap. This post no longer exists!".Perhaps somebody had advance notification of an upcoming offer & posted it too early.



14 minutes live and 82 degrees
BuzzDuraband18/11/2019 12:25

It's on their site, here. The offer has been active since the 15th …It's on their site, here. The offer has been active since the 15th November.



Thanks. They hid that away! I was expecting something on the usual "trade-in" page, or a site-wide banner, or similar.
eslick18/11/2019 12:32

14 minutes live and 82 degrees


I'm missing your point. I'd just told people, although inaccurately, that they could get £210 trade-in for a PlayStation 4 console.
eslick18/11/2019 12:32

14 minutes live and 82 degrees



...and I didn't get a chance to vote on it due to my fruitless trip to GAME.co.uk
BuzzDuraband18/11/2019 12:35

I'm missing your point. I'd just told people, although inaccurately, that …I'm missing your point. I'd just told people, although inaccurately, that they could get £210 trade-in for a PlayStation 4 console.



We were talking about the heat the site staff get compared to others, we know there is no bias towards site staff in terms of voting figures and its been discussed probably to death in the past that staff deals get quicker than others.

Hopefully with the changes to promoted deals that is coming we will see more clarify but as has also been talked before, it doesnt have to be special heat for site posted deals it could be site staff just immediately voted on by other site staff and the deal gets hot.
Sometimes it is impossible to post deals because the target has not had enough positive reviews. How can they get those reviews if people cannot see them? I have had a moderator blow out a deal for that reason.
Also, it would seem that a post's existence or acceptance to the site depends on the money that can be generated from links. No revenue, no posting, irrespective of benefit to members.
There are also members who have stated "only 10%? Not worth the effort." So how do we measure what is a good deal? By discount volume? Against what, the RRP or the real price? If buying an 82 wash bottle is the same pro rata as a 58 wash bottle, is it actually a deal (that was just an example and not disparagement to the poster)
If Apple were not sure a slave labour powered company that is prepared to shaft its customers at every opportunity, then perhaps you could say some of their offers were deals. But as that company (along with Nike etc) charges high on the basis that it makes the customer exclusive (as well as stupid), then the prices should be a lot lower than the deals offered. If Xiaomi can produce a similar phone for a third the price, then is the Apple really a deal?
Edited by: "TristanDeCoonha" 18th Nov
eslick18/11/2019 12:43

We were talking about the heat the site staff get compared to others, we …We were talking about the heat the site staff get compared to others, we know there is no bias towards site staff in terms of voting figures and its been discussed probably to death in the past that staff deals get quicker than others. Hopefully with the changes to promoted deals that is coming we will see more clarify but as has also been talked before, it doesnt have to be special heat for site posted deals it could be site staff just immediately voted on by other site staff and the deal gets hot.


I can't speak for everybody, all I can tell you is the way I operate and how I see it, but I've never once been asked by a member of staff on this website to vote their deals hot. From my point of view, I'd like to know that the deals I post are organically voted hot by merit of how good the deal actually is. The last thing I'd want is my posts to be boosted by false heat, it's not really benefitting anybody, is it?

We've got to remember that the 'follow' function on the site is a great tool for members to know when a poster of their preference (based on deal type) would post a deal, maybe this increases the heat temperature for certain members? I honestly don't know what the case is, but I don't think it's a secretive or deceptive as it may seem.
BuzzDuraband18/11/2019 12:51

...The last thing I'd want is my posts to be boosted by false heat, it's …...The last thing I'd want is my posts to be boosted by false heat, it's not really benefitting anybody, is it? ...


If @rogparki was still here this is where he would refer to sheep voting & those that see a "Deal" thread gaining heat quickly would simply "go with the flock" & vote the same way.

"False heat" does benefit the site; especially if there is an affiliate link associated with the [Get deal] button.
fanpages18/11/2019 13:10

If @rogparki was still here this is where he would refer to sheep voting & …If @rogparki was still here this is where he would refer to sheep voting & those that see a "Deal" thread gaining heat quickly would simply "go with the flock" & vote the same way."False heat" does benefit the site; especially if there is an affiliate link associated with the [Get deal] button.


Well clearly I have no way of coming back at either of those points
fanpages18/11/2019 13:10

If @rogparki was still here this is where he would refer to sheep voting & …If @rogparki was still here this is where he would refer to sheep voting & those that see a "Deal" thread gaining heat quickly would simply "go with the flock" & vote the same way."False heat" does benefit the site; especially if there is an affiliate link associated with the [Get deal] button.



totally agree, and as an example add a company who was suspended gets their ban removed and the site posts a deal that goes to 2000 odd degrees doesnt help especially when you get your big hitter to post it.

Its got to the stage where I no longer vote on staff deals really no point. Partner deals will hopefully get sponsered or adverts from what Jay has said after the discussions with the ASA and it cant come soon enough. But not sure it will really help as what looks like a Partner deal for Amazon who dont pay for affiliate links went sky high from 1am to 6am this morning, yes its a good price but you have to ask Alexa for it and I am guessing and may be incorrect that that has to be a partner advert as well.
I know what you mean OP.

Take the comments on board (those which are justified or can back up their negativity) and ignore the trolls/keyboard warriors/rest of them.

As for a solution, I doubt the Pepper team will change anything with regards to voting powers. All they're interested in is earning commission from the deals posted.

If it's of any help, I have benefited from one of the deals you posted (Emirates Palace) and I'm sure there will be others.
A good deal to you might not be to someone else. If your putting up 5* hotels and it’s a good deal, it still might not be affordable to others and they don’t know any better so they vote cold... just the way it is if you don’t like it don’t post...

everyone who posts is in the same boat. I’ve posted deals what are good value for what they are but not to others some people don’t have a clue... but I’m not going to create a post and cry about it as these keyboard warriors will probably go out the way now to post the deals cold...
eslick18/11/2019 13:21

totally agree, and as an example add a company who was suspended gets …totally agree, and as an example add a company who was suspended gets their ban removed and the site posts a deal that goes to 2000 odd degrees doesnt help especially when you get your big hitter to post it. Its got to the stage where I no longer vote on staff deals really no point. Partner deals will hopefully get sponsered or adverts from what Jay has said after the discussions with the ASA and it cant come soon enough. But not sure it will really help as what looks like a Partner deal for Amazon who dont pay for affiliate links went sky high from 1am to 6am this morning, yes its a good price but you have to ask Alexa for it and I am guessing and may be incorrect that that has to be a partner advert as well.


Not aimed at you personally or anything, but there’s a lot of people on this site getting bent out of shape over the heat of posts, when in reality I don’t think it really means a lot. Putting others opinions of the PEP situation aside, I got invited at time when some of my posts ie those for international gaming deals were going ‘ice cold’ so I’m not sure the hot/cold voting system is an accurate measure of a deal’s popularity, if anything at all. Some of my posts have gone hot after a period of 2 to 3 weeks after posting, but all the while I’ll receive comments and PMs from specific users about those deals on regular basis, so I think there is some truth to what Buzz says about people using the follow function, it’s pretty much a given that some will vote on X users deals regardless based on their own preferences
Edited by: "joeydeacon" 18th Nov
Just looked at some of your deals £200+ a night for a hotel might be cheap for what it is but it’s a bargain site that’s not a bargain to most, they want a holiday for that lol....
joeydeacon18/11/2019 13:46

Not aimed at you personally or anything, but there’s a lot of people on t …Not aimed at you personally or anything, but there’s a lot of people on this site getting bent out of shape over the heat of posts, when in reality I don’t think it really means a lot. Putting others opinions of the PEP situation aside, I got invited at time when some of my posts ie those for international gaming deals were going ‘ice cold’ so I’m not sure the hot/cold voting system is an accurate measure of a deal’s popularity, if anything at all. Some of my posts have gone hot after a period of 2 to 3 weeks after posting, but all the while I’ll receive comments and PMs from specific users about those deals on regular basis, so I think there is some truth to what Buzz says about people using the follow function, it’s pretty much a given that some will vote on X users deals regardless based on their own preferences



I should have mentioned earlier I do not class PEP as site staff, they are users who post deals they find, like the rest of us where as site staff including editors, which people think are just normal members who have the ability to edit posts rather than being paid employees of the site, who have partner deals handed to them and they sift through to find the best.

Of course heat matters, though with the new rules every deal has to be best in the market unless its a chocolate orange, so everything should be hot but if it wasnt for heat you wouldnt have the highlights page or the hot page where many people just go and dont even bother with new, and why you just need to get a deal on the hot page for it to fly no matter how many weeks it has been posted.
I count anyone who receives payment for work as staff.
Hey @dogpatch

Voting is certainly something which we keep an eye on. We do not consider just excessive cold votes to be an abuse of this function but also hot votes. The latter is actually quite rare though.

Some of the things we consider when reviewing what could be vote abuse:

- is the voter targeting a specific members
- has the voted left any comments on threads which they're voting on
- is the voter targeting a merchant or product
- how long between votes? If in quick success the voter is clearly not taking the time to review the deal

We don't just block the vote. We will get in touch with the member to explain why we think what they are doing is an abuse of their voting privileges and then leave it with them to think about. We'll then do another review after a short while and if necessary their vote will be blocked.

Just FYI - not all members of the team here have access to deal vote reports.

-------

Some here have said about hot votes being only a positive thing for the site but a point i'd just like to make is that we want members to trust the deals that they see on site and know if they are showing where they are (Highlights, Hot etc) it is because they are a cracking deal (obviously there can be rare exceptions like the chocolate orange but I guess it was still a deal).

We would not want poor/mediocre deals to be occupying these spaces. If members come to site we want them to see the absolute best stuff in these spots.
magicjay198618/11/2019 14:19

... - is the voter targeting a specific members - has the voted left any …... - is the voter targeting a specific members - has the voted left any comments on threads which they're voting on - is the voter targeting a merchant or product - how long between votes? If in quick success the voter is clearly not taking the time to review the deal ...


According to the thread I quoted above ("Can we please have the rules/guidelines on Voting made more clear??") it was (&, in the absence of anything to the contrary) & still remains common practice that you are able to vote against (i.e. target) a specific merchant or product, a member, the price, or anything else you deem worthy in the catch-all definition of a "Deal".

I appreciate that targeting a specific member is against the Code of Conduct, but if an individual member always submits "Deal" threads for, say, Chinese tat bargain sites, then it may look like that member is being singled-out for negative voting but it may well be the merchant that is the target.

Perhaps if the site ever published the definition of a "Deal" to make it explicit what voting was based upon then members could simply be pointed at that criteria to avoid these discussions appearing time & time again.

PS. I suspect this will never be the case as discussions in "Deals" keep the threads ongoing so that more & more members see them thus producting more click-thru revenue (where applicable).
Edited by: "fanpages" 18th Nov
magicjay198618/11/2019 14:19

Hey @dogpatch Voting is certainly something which we keep an eye on. We do …Hey @dogpatch Voting is certainly something which we keep an eye on. We do not consider just excessive cold votes to be an abuse of this function but also hot votes. The latter is actually quite rare though. Some of the things we consider when reviewing what could be vote abuse: - is the voter targeting a specific members- has the voted left any comments on threads which they're voting on- is the voter targeting a merchant or product- how long between votes? If in quick success the voter is clearly not taking the time to review the dealWe don't just block the vote. We will get in touch with the member to explain why we think what they are doing is an abuse of their voting privileges and then leave it with them to think about. We'll then do another review after a short while and if necessary their vote will be blocked. Just FYI - not all members of the team here have access to deal vote reports. -------Some here have said about hot votes being only a positive thing for the site but a point i'd just like to make is that we want members to trust the deals that they see on site and know if they are showing where they are (Highlights, Hot etc) it is because they are a cracking deal (obviously there can be rare exceptions like the chocolate orange but I guess it was still a deal). We would not want poor/mediocre deals to be occupying these spaces. If members come to site we want them to see the absolute best stuff in these spots.



Like the chocolate orange deal?
I don't have anything that serious to chime in with, but I have noticed (maybe because it's grumpy insominacs) that if I post circa 2am, my Deals go Cold for a while. Wake in the morning, hey presto, it's Hot - obviously, depends whether it's determined to be decent or not.
Edited by: "louiselouise" 18th Nov
I only ever vote hot or cold on item I know or understand so games pc’s etc just get passed by without a vote sorry x
fearona18/11/2019 14:51

Like the chocolate orange deal?


@myusernamehasgone234 will explain it all

fearona18/11/2019 14:16

I count anyone who receives payment for work as staff.



The reason I don’t include PEP is they are not handed partner deals, staff including editors are, partner deals are in any other word a form of advertising in my mind, where as PEP which is supposed to be a beta of other things ( a year is a long time for a beta)to come have to find their own deals.
Edited by: "eslick" 18th Nov
eslick18/11/2019 18:15

@myusernamehasgone234 will explain it all The reason I don’t include P …@myusernamehasgone234 will explain it all The reason I don’t include PEP is they are not handed partner deals, staff including editors are, partner deals are in any other word a form of advertising in my mind, where as PEP which is supposed to be a beta of other things ( a year is a long time for a beta)to come have to find their own deals.


I had my comment removed earlier apparently it’s was untrue and thread spoiling

Perhaps I should have phrased it better.

I agree with @eslick once a staff member is given the heads up about a deal from the company itself then it becomes advertising.
BuzzDuraband18/11/2019 12:25

It's on their site, here. The offer has been active since the 15th …It's on their site, here. The offer has been active since the 15th November.


Thanks Buzz .. I'm all over this deal like a cheap suit
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