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    ID cards

    timesonline.co.uk/tol…ece

    So, despite no-one wanting them, we're still gonna be made to have them. What ever happened to choice?

    Reading between then lines, If your details arnt registered then you *could* be denied bank accounts, travel rights, loans, morgages etc

    There wont be a vote on it by MPs, its just going to happen.

    And theres little we can do to prevent another violation of our freedom....barr a military Coup...

    25 Comments

    The reason for electing a government is to carry out the wishes of the people. lol :x

    I'm not keen on the idea but it will benefit me. I don't drive so have no driving lisence and can't apply for a provsional due to my health and my passport is in my maiden name and still vailid so not worth paying a fortune to change the name so i have no id and have major problems applying for bank accounts phone contracts etc.

    i want them! i odnt see why not! Sure it means were governed more and were watch more but is that a bad thing?

    sophie***;1677424

    The reason for electing a government is to carry out the wishes of the … The reason for electing a government is to carry out the wishes of the people. lol :x



    Given that it was in the Labour manifesto to introduce ID cards, and they were the elected party, I guess they are doing just that.

    ID Cards.......I'm all for them, why are people so worried? What have you to hide?
    We are all being watched one way or another. The ID Card will just catch the people who probably should not be in the country!
    I also think DNA samples should be taken from everyone in the country at what ever cost. I really think this would bring down crime figures.

    Banned

    REDRANGER86;1677448

    i want them! i odnt see why not! Sure it means were governed more and … i want them! i odnt see why not! Sure it means were governed more and were watch more but is that a bad thing?


    Of course its a bad thing to be monitored more. We already have a quarter of the worlds CCTV cameras! I wouldnt mind so much if the governments record on looking after sensitive data was 100% but its far from that.

    Add to that, the fact it is estimated that the charge for an ID card will be between £100-£150 per person. :x

    Banned

    jungfrau78;1677538

    ID Cards.......I'm all for them, why are people so worried? What have you … ID Cards.......I'm all for them, why are people so worried? What have you to hide?We are all being watched one way or another. The ID Card will just catch the people who probably should not be in the country!I also think DNA samples should be taken from everyone in the country at what ever cost. I really think this would bring down crime figures.


    1. It is not going to be mandatory to carry one and the Police will have no powers to view it so that rules out your point on catching illegals. generally, illegal immigrants are just released into the community with a piece of paper tellling them to report to the nearest immigration office. A lot of good that will do.

    2. I thought DNA could establish a one in a million chance of a match. On that basis, then 60-70 people would match crime samples. Surely that would mean that DNA evidence in court would be useless.

    We get the government we deserve. ID cards wont work, so after that they will tell us we need a computer chip implant. "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name" (Revelation 13:16-17). Not so far fetched is it, especially since it was written over 2,000 years ago?

    Original Poster

    true, they were elected in with that promise but the world has changed a lot since then, plus, would you really trust more data with them? they seem to have a pretty good track record at losing everything. Plus, it won't make anything more secure, thats what they said about chip+pin and fraud is UP since it was introduced...

    The police have no current powers to view them, but what happens if that changes? They are already trying to introduce random stop and searches, its a small step from there.

    atm the consequences seem small now, but what about in 10-20 years?

    Perhaps, we should leave things alone and let the country go to rot.
    Or, maybe, when our country is being run by other nationals and we have to adhere to their rules it might be a better place to live?

    I think the whole idea is based, not on terrorism or crime, but on the ability to track the movements of everyone. True, if I have done nothing wrong then I have nothing to fear, but then why allow anyone to have the ability to electronically stalk me!

    Jonster;1677619

    true, they were elected in with that promise but the world has changed a … true, they were elected in with that promise but the world has changed a lot since then



    It has? How has it changed in the last 3 years?

    would you really trust more data with them?



    No more than I would trust my data with anyone. It's funny how people say that they won't trust the Government with their personal data yet many are quite prepared to give it away to any Tom, Dick and Harry website if there's the chance of a free t-shirt or a few pennies here and there.

    The police have no current powers to view them, but what happens if that … The police have no current powers to view them, but what happens if that changes?



    I don't have a problem with that.

    atm the consequences seem small now, but what about in 10-20 years?



    You could say the same about not intorducing ID cards. In 20-30 years things can change rapidly for the worse in any country, no matter what policies they have/do not have in place. You've only got to look at the early 20th Century to see that.

    jungfrau78;1677657

    Perhaps, we should leave things alone and let the country go to rot.Or, … Perhaps, we should leave things alone and let the country go to rot.Or, maybe, when our country is being run by other nationals and we have to adhere to their rules it might be a better place to live?



    Will the last person to leave please turn off the lights?

    In my opinion - this is excellent news - as a law abiding, tax payer for the last 28 years (I've worked ever since I left school) I am glad they are bringing this in - if you do nothing wrong you have nothing to be worried about - I also believe that DNA should be taken from every child born that way all this b*st*rds that go around nicking cars and other peoples property will be caught - the only thing I disagree with is that as a tax payer I will have to pay for them to be put in prison - personally they are of no use to society so 'string 'em up and be done with them'

    Original Poster

    ":
    The police have no current powers to view them, but what happens if that changes?

    I don't have a problem with that."

    So, what happens if you pop down the shop to get some milk, forget your card, and get stopped? If it all worked like it is supposed to then there would be much of a problem, but it never does!

    "I wouldn't mind the government having my DNA on a data base ( as long as it wasnt abused) "

    thats the problem, what happens if it is? then what?

    I dont see how it is better or more effecient than using my passport, and im sure the 18bn would be better spent on border patrols to prevent immigration that this.

    Plus, when the id cards were first introduced it was by a different home sec who said it'd go to an MP vote before any decision is reached, now it is absolute.

    Theres data and then theres data, the information i give on websites is only stuff that could have been found out by other, legal, means. Not stuff like my DNA make-up or what makes me myself.

    whats happened the last 3 years? you mean apart from a different prime minister, saddam hanged, the tube bombings and the whole 'terrorism' thing getting, apparently, worse. Fear is a funny thing, makes people do many things with their freedom, it seems.

    Just because you do nothing wrong doesnt stop you being in the wrong place at the wrong time and you DNA being implicated, or perhaps its just similar to someone that is. And for crimes that no DNA is left, its not going to help anything, better policing will solve those crimes.

    Banned

    sn0ttyang3l;1677714

    In my opinion - this is excellent news - as a law abiding, tax payer for … In my opinion - this is excellent news - as a law abiding, tax payer for the last 28 years (I've worked ever since I left school) I am glad they are bringing this in - if you do nothing wrong you have nothing to be worried about - I also believe that DNA should be taken from every child born that way all this b*st*rds that go around nicking cars and other peoples property will be caught - the only thing I disagree with is that as a tax payer I will have to pay for them to be put in prison - personally they are of no use to society so 'string 'em up and be done with them'


    So you are first in line to pay the £150 admission fee ;-)

    Banned

    To see what exactly has happened to our 'rights' over the last 10 years then see the film 'Taking Liberties'.

    First part is here:-

    youtube.com/res…pe=

    the rest are here:-

    youtube.com/res…pe=

    labour manifesto:-

    ID cards in and referendum on euro treaty in.

    What do we get? just ID cards at 3 times the cost (up from £5,800,000,000 to £18,000,000,000 and rising!) at a cost of £300 for every person in the UK (excluding illegals!).

    Original Poster

    yup, no referendum. They got out of that one too. Only minor changes, apparently, but its the principle.

    Jonster;1677804

    So, what happens if you pop down the shop to get some milk, forget your … So, what happens if you pop down the shop to get some milk, forget your card, and get stopped? If it all worked like it is supposed to then there would be much of a problem, but it never does!



    Doesn't it? It doesn't seem to have been much of a problem with regards to driving licenses

    I dont see how it is better or more effecient than using my passport, and … I dont see how it is better or more effecient than using my passport, and im sure the 18bn would be better spent on border patrols to prevent immigration that this.



    Not everyone has a passport and even if they do, it's not as conveinient as a carrying a card. Also, I may be wrong, but I don't think everyone who is entitled to a passport would be entitled to an ID card.

    Theres data and then theres data, the information i give on websites is … Theres data and then theres data, the information i give on websites is only stuff that could have been found out by other, legal, means. Not stuff like my DNA make-up or what makes me myself.



    Combine the data that you have given freely, with what's available in the public domain, together with what you buy in your weekly shop, and a company such as tescos will have a pretty good idea as to your lifestyle, your health and where abouts you are.

    whats happened the last 3 years? you mean apart from a different prime … whats happened the last 3 years? you mean apart from a different prime minister, saddam hanged, the tube bombings and the whole 'terrorism' thing getting, apparently, worse.



    None of those things are major changes compared to the previous 5 years. How is Gordan Brown introducing ID cards different to what was stated in the Labour Manifesto?

    Fear is a funny thing, makes people do many things with their freedom, … Fear is a funny thing, makes people do many things with their freedom, it seems.



    The thing is, if you had asked me about ID cards 10 years ago I would have said the same thing. Fear works both ways and if anything, you are the one sounding fearful (I don't mean that as a negative comment, I'm just pointing out that fear isn't a one way thing).

    Just because you do nothing wrong doesnt stop you being in the wrong … Just because you do nothing wrong doesnt stop you being in the wrong place at the wrong time and you DNA being implicated, or perhaps its just similar to someone that is.



    Yep, I totally agree. People have this misunderstanding that DNA equals proof of guilt, when it doesn't. It is just a tool, that demonstrates that your DNA was found in a particular place, nothing more, nothing less.

    I would suggest that the majority of people in favour of ID cards have had little if any dealings with the police or the justice system. In my recent involvement with the police where I thought I was acting in a responsible and community minded spirit I had my DNA, photos and fingerprints taken and believe you me in the eyes of the police we are all guilty until proven innocent, and any chance to build up their database of information they jump at.:x


    Full info at this previous post hotukdeals.com/ite…t=8

    sn0ttyang3l;1677714

    In my opinion - this is excellent news - as a law abiding, tax payer for … In my opinion - this is excellent news - as a law abiding, tax payer for the last 28 years (I've worked ever since I left school) I am glad they are bringing this in - if you do nothing wrong you have nothing to be worried about - I also believe that DNA should be taken from every child born that way all this b*st*rds that go around nicking cars and other peoples property will be caught - the only thing I disagree with is that as a tax payer I will have to pay for them to be put in prison - personally they are of no use to society so 'string 'em up and be done with them'



    " Excellent news " is it ??
    Do you think it will make any difference to the crime rate if everybody has one of these cards ??
    I've just paid nearly £80 for a new passport and have a driving licence ,this should be enough .I own 2 cars ,the cops just have to feed one of the reg numbers in there system and they have all the info they need .Why should I be forced to pay any thing from £100/£150 for a card ?

    Excellent news my R's

    I think that it has been demonstrated conclusively that it is almost impossible for personal data to be secure in the hands of government agencies and the private firms that they sub-contract to. I also think that it is impossible for all data to be entered accurately. I am certain that mistakes will be made and that it will be well within the scope of organised crime to duplicate ID cards. Think of the nightmares suffered by people who have their identites stolen. Think of the hassle when your credit card is stolen. Imagine what it would be like if you were dependant on your ID card for any type of benefit or access to the NHS.
    Just the practicalities seem a potential horror show even if we disregarded the liberty aspect and we all found a new total trust in the police.

    Banned

    When are you people going to wake up! WE live in a police state!

    I think it should be incorporated with the national insurance cards i don't feel we should have to pay i pay enough in taxes already. As to not having contact with the police believe me i had more than enough from driving an excavation digger around a site with my mates to t.d.a. And joy riding but i still think id cards are a good idea in todays society

    Waste Of Tax Payers Money
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