Expired

Internet/Broadband without Landline (?)

35
Found 5th Jan
Can we actually get broadband without a landline?

according to BroadbandChoices:

"...Most broadband providers use BT's (www.bt.com) copper wire telephone network to deliver an internet connection to your home, and that requires an active phone line… so line rental is almost always included when you take out a broadband package."

well, I'm currently with BT for 8 months now, and my landline has never been activated/connected since (due to a fault line near our house), but my broadband is working perfectly fine so far.

at first, they wanted an engineer to come & repair it, but i would get charged for the call-out as it's not a network issue. so i told them don't bother coming as i wouldn't use landline anyway.

so technically, i have been actually using internet without active landline(!)

all these landline rental thingies are just a rip-off. anyone thinks Ofcom aware of this blunder?
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35 Comments
Give Ofcom a ring.
I think you will find Openreach are responsible for your phone line up to and including the master socket in your house. The fault isn't your responsibility.
airfix21 m ago

I think you will find Openreach are responsible for your phone line up to …I think you will find Openreach are responsible for your phone line up to and including the master socket in your house. The fault isn't your responsibility.


This, if the fault is outside its not your program.

Also the phone and net are not connected in a way, as in a damaged line can affect one but not the other, however it will probably affect both eventually.

I had a damaged line, it was traced to a bodge job just outside my frontdoor where the original engineer connected me in the first place, the internet was fine but the phone wasn't ringing and i do use the phone, what happened was he had connected it using bits of wire he'd stuck together because he clearly didn't have a long enough piece and he'd tried to shove it all under the roof edge with putty stuff, over the years water got in and was starting to corrod the wire, it just so happened that the first section to be ruined was the bits used for sending the ring signal, it took awhile but she fixed it all free of charge.

I don't know about master socket tho, for me with internets elsewhere and a BT phone line its my responsibility from the point it enters my front door, theres a little doorbell like box above my door the wires go into, i was told its mine where they exit that box into the home, beyond is not.
Edited by: "Segata-Sanshiro" 5th Jan
Strange fault that - I know they're using different frequency spectrums but you'd assume both the phone and internet to stop working with a fault on the line.

With Virgin, assuming you're in a cable area you don't need a landline if all you're after is fast broadband as its all Coax. One of the main reasons we switched to Virgin in 2005 was a 5 day period with no phone or broadband, it took them 5 days to send someone out (we were BT customers) There was a fault on our line at a cabinet nearby or something.
Have you connected a filter to the socket for the phone and internet cables?
freakstyler11 m ago

Strange fault that - I know they're using different frequency spectrums …Strange fault that - I know they're using different frequency spectrums but you'd assume both the phone and internet to stop working with a fault on the line.With Virgin, assuming you're in a cable area you don't need a landline if all you're after is fast broadband as its all Coax. One of the main reasons we switched to Virgin in 2005 was a 5 day period with no phone or broadband, it took them 5 days to send someone out (we were BT customers) There was a fault on our line at a cabinet nearby or something.



I believe there are two cables from the exchange to your house, phone needs both but broadband only needs one to be working.
CoeK4 m ago

I believe there are two cables from the exchange to your house, phone …I believe there are two cables from the exchange to your house, phone needs both but broadband only needs one to be working.


But the internet is packets of data, some get lost anyway and resent, i believe there is kind of like a ratio of lost data packets before it becomes obviously messed up, so its working in a different way not instantly noticeable unless the line fault is large
Segata-Sanshiro55 s ago

But the internet is packets of data, some get lost anyway and resent, i …But the internet is packets of data, some get lost anyway and resent, i believe there is kind of like a ratio of lost data packets before it becomes obviously messed up, so its working in a different way not instantly noticeable unless the line fault is large



I'm not sure how that has any relevance to what i just said?
not sure if i have to contact BT again regarding this. am fine anyway without landline. besides, i only have about 3 months left with them. but i can't seem to justify price increase with no full service.

my worry is they might cut my internet connection while fixing it, just to prove a point "no landline, no internet".
daeyoungja5 m ago

not sure if i have to contact BT again regarding this. am fine anyway …not sure if i have to contact BT again regarding this. am fine anyway without landline. besides, i only have about 3 months left with them. but i can't seem to justify price increase with no full service. ;)my worry is they might cut my internet connection while fixing it, just to prove a point "no landline, no internet".



If you check your speed and it isn't slower i wouldn't bother paying them to fix it if that's what they are asking for.
Your BT Openreach cable is a big bundle of smaller cables inside,a connection of communication is via your local cabinet by a road and then to your local exchange in a building. If you have two landlines then you use 4 cables in this big bundle and you can have two internet services and two telephone numbers for voice calls. The copper wire infrastructure is your landline infrastructure cost, the internet service is another infrastructural technology but its data is superimposed as much higher frequencies over the analogue frequencies down the same copper wires. Inside your house you use a filter to separate the two lots of frequencies, one is for voice and one is for data. Your rental is to pay for this copper wire infrastructure. A fault on your voice can be independent from your data (internet). A rip-off is not due to one is working and one is not. You subscribe to the entire infrastructure with that landline cost. You get fault on this bundle of wired infrastructure outside of your house fixed for nothing up to your wall socket. If your data speed is too slow then it is possible to use a cleaner cable in that big bundle of wires.
Edited by: "splender" 5th Jan
You are liable for anything plugged into the master socket. The master socket and all cabling leading up to it are Openreach’s property and responsibility.
I was even stupid enough a few years ago to trim back some unused analogue cables running into my house. Oops one was the phone. BT repaired it free of charge, even though I owned up.
splender10 m ago

Your BT Openreach cable is a big bundle of smaller cables inside,a …Your BT Openreach cable is a big bundle of smaller cables inside,a connection of communication is via your local cabinet by a road and then to your local exchange in a building. If you have two landlines then you use 4 cables in this big bundle and you can have two internet services and two telephone numbers for voice calls. The copper wire infrastructure is your landline infrastructure cost, the internet service is another infrastructural technology but its data is superimposed as much higher frequencies over the analogue frequencies down the same copper wires. Inside your house you use a filter to separate the two lots of frequencies, one is for voice and one is for data. Your rental is to pay for this copper wire infrastructure. A fault on your voice can be independent from your data (internet). A rip-off is not due to one is working and one is not. You subscribe to the entire infrastructure with that landline cost. You get fault on this bundle of wired infrastructure outside of your house fixed for nothing up to your wall socket. If your data speed is too slow then it is possible to use a cleaner cable in that big bundle of wires.


should all these wirings be included with the internet service?

my point in this discussion is that normal people like me (not technically-minded!), are being led to believe that we can't really have internet connection without landline (voice calls services). that only cable companies can provide this.
daeyoungja8 m ago

should all these wirings be included with the internet service?my point in …should all these wirings be included with the internet service?my point in this discussion is that normal people like me (not technically-minded!), are being led to believe that we can't really have internet connection without landline (voice calls services). that only cable companies can provide this.


Question Op. Is your broadband copper or fibre? It is possible (nowadays likely) to have telephone and fibre rather than broadband relying on copper cable. In this scenario you could have broadband even though the phone line isn't connected. They don't want you to do this, but if there is a fault and they haven't rectified it - keep quiet. Enjoy it whilst it lasts, saving £17+ per month, happy days!!
daeyoungja11 m ago

should all these wirings be included with the internet service?my point in …should all these wirings be included with the internet service?my point in this discussion is that normal people like me (not technically-minded!), are being led to believe that we can't really have internet connection without landline (voice calls services). that only cable companies can provide this.



I would ignore that big wall of copy and pasted text tbh.

The cable supplied to your house would include voice regardless of you wanting it or not so they will always charge you line rental.
mrty5 m ago

Question Op. Is your broadband copper or fibre? It is possible (nowadays …Question Op. Is your broadband copper or fibre? It is possible (nowadays likely) to have telephone and fibre rather than broadband relying on copper cable. In this scenario you could have broadband even though the phone line isn't connected. They don't want you to do this, but if there is a fault and they haven't rectified it - keep quiet. Enjoy it whilst it lasts, [b]saving £17+ per month[/b], happy days!!


we got fibre broadband.

bib, line rental is included with the package (BT infinity), so no savings really.
Line rental is not limited to voice services. It was deployed in the dark ages when all we had were voice comma options. It has now been re-appropriated to provide data services.
As the internet does not work through fresh air with out much more expensive hardware. You require some kind of physical link. In most cases that is a copper wire into your house.

If Openreach/BT relaunched line rental as Data/Comms cabling, people would stop moaning.

Train tickets, have to factor in the cost of rail maintenance. (Ignoring not too well or it’s not priced correctly). If you want internet in the house you need a cable to get it there and networking hardware to distribute the data to you.
I see two questions in the op

1. can we get internet without a landline?
obviously the answer is yes as you see many people using cell phones not connected via landlines to get "internets"

2. Are ofcom aware of this blunder? two parts here
There is no blunder, you have a copper wire to your house which makes a circuit to the exchange, this is what you pay line rental for, whether there is a fault disabling the voice facilities is neither here nor there.
Ofcom are aware of very little or simply don't care, such as the fact that published BT has been stealing billions of pounds from the UK economy for a decade with over inflated line rental increases and has simply been told to stop, no penalties no paybacks just a telling off.......
With virgin cable.. Yes.. Just Internet.. No landline or phone
maddogb1 h, 35 m ago

I see two questions in the op1. can we get internet without a landline? …I see two questions in the op1. can we get internet without a landline? obviously the answer is yes as you see many people using cell phones not connected via landlines to get "internets"2. Are ofcom aware of this blunder? two parts hereThere is no blunder, you have a copper wire to your house which makes a circuit to the exchange, this is what you pay line rental for, whether there is a fault disabling the voice facilities is neither here nor there.Ofcom are aware of very little or simply don't care, such as the fact that published BT has been stealing billions of pounds from the UK economy for a decade with over inflated line rental increases and has simply been told to stop, no penalties no paybacks just a telling off.......

1. obviously i was talking about home internet, which is connected to landline.
geez, all the replies about wirings that we're paying for landline rental, that is not how they advertise the service, is it?

anyway, i expired this discussion now. can't argue with technically-minded people.
daeyoungja1 m ago

geez, all the replies about wirings that we're paying for landline rental, …geez, all the replies about wirings that we're paying for landline rental, that is not how they advertise the service, is it?anyway, i expired this discussion now. can't argue with technically-minded people.



You can't stop the discussion yet, nobody has had a chance to blame brexit or millenial snowflakes.
Oneday772 h, 21 m ago

Line rental is not limited to voice services. It was deployed in the dark …Line rental is not limited to voice services. It was deployed in the dark ages when all we had were voice comma options. It has now been re-appropriated to provide data services. As the internet does not work through fresh air with out much more expensive hardware. You require some kind of physical link. In most cases that is a copper wire into your house. If Openreach/BT relaunched line rental as Data/Comms cabling, people would stop moaning. Train tickets, have to factor in the cost of rail maintenance. (Ignoring not too well or it’s not priced correctly). If you want internet in the house you need a cable to get it there and networking hardware to distribute the data to you.



Spot on - line rental charges are fully justified as you are using a phsysical line for both internet & phone.
daeyoungja3 m ago

geez, all the replies about wirings that we're paying for landline rental, …geez, all the replies about wirings that we're paying for landline rental, that is not how they advertise the service, is it?anyway, i expired this discussion now. can't argue with technically-minded people.



no need to throw your toys around just because you dont understand the accurate replies (hardly technical either! )
chocci39 m ago

no need to throw your toys around just because you dont understand the …no need to throw your toys around just because you dont understand the accurate replies (hardly technical either! )


oh boohoo! my OP is what u all dont understand!

i was just simply opposing what BroadbandChoices' statement: "...need active phone line for internet".

as i currently been using BT broadband for 8 months now, with no "active" phone line.
Edited by: "daeyoungja" 5th Jan
daeyoungja13 m ago

oh boohoo! my OP is what u all dont understand! i was just simply opposing …oh boohoo! my OP is what u all dont understand! i was just simply opposing what BroadbandChoices' statement.



we all understand very clearly.

you're making a big fuss because they should state 'active line' rather than 'active phone line'.
chocci7 m ago

we all understand very clearly. you're making a big fuss because they …we all understand very clearly. you're making a big fuss because they should state 'active line' rather than 'active phone line'.


whats the big fuzz? i never even ranted @BT regarding this.
It was possible to get an ADSL only landline service without a live telephone (voice) service, but you still had to pay line rental which covers the line maintenance and infrastructure costs etc. Very few ISPs offered it and the few packages I've seen were more expensive than getting a regular ADSL + analogue phone line.


ADSL uses radio frequencies, so will often still work if there is a short break in the line, certainly if 1 wire is still connected, I had an intermittent fault on my line many years ago that went on for years and eventually resulted in the phoneline going dead. Once the line went dead my ADSL actually improved, although that may have been because the neighbours lines had failed too so no interference The fault was caused by water penetrating a junction box in the flooded ducts in our street and rotting a couple of foot of cable which turned to dust when the BT engineer tugged the bit he cut out.

If your phone line is not shown as active on Openreach's system then I would be concerned that your pair could be reused, cutting you off if a BT engineer needs a spare pair for someone else.
Edited by: "melted" 5th Jan
Segata-Sanshiro5 h, 50 m ago

This, if the fault is outside its not your program.Also the phone and net …This, if the fault is outside its not your program.Also the phone and net are not connected in a way, as in a damaged line can affect one but not the other, however it will probably affect both eventually.I had a damaged line, it was traced to a bodge job just outside my frontdoor where the original engineer connected me in the first place, the internet was fine but the phone wasn't ringing and i do use the phone, what happened was he had connected it using bits of wire he'd stuck together because he clearly didn't have a long enough piece and he'd tried to shove it all under the roof edge with putty stuff, over the years water got in and was starting to corrod the wire, it just so happened that the first section to be ruined was the bits used for sending the ring signal, it took awhile but she fixed it all free of charge.I don't know about master socket tho, for me with internets elsewhere and a BT phone line its my responsibility from the point it enters my front door, theres a little doorbell like box above my door the wires go into, i was told its mine where they exit that box into the home, beyond is not.


I had this as well(a fault 'up the pole')
The broadband speed degraded until it was nearly unusable

Like others have said not your fault get it fixed for free
much easier these days you can do it all via text with Sky at least
suited me just great
daeyoungja4 h, 46 m ago

should all these wirings be included with the internet service?my point in …should all these wirings be included with the internet service?my point in this discussion is that normal people like me (not technically-minded!), are being led to believe that we can't really have internet connection without landline (voice calls services). that only cable companies can provide this.


A successful person operates on his/her understanding of the world around him/her. With Google, it is ever so easy to find out the meaning of the word, landline, and not be misled without any technical knowledge beyond what one learned at nursery or infants' school using a piece of wet string and two plastic cups to transmit data and sound. If people misled you, you google or ask neighbours to get at the truth for yourself, rather than to push excuses onto the mis-leader or fake fact speaker.

The answer to your first question is yes. The answer to your second implied question is any telephone (voice) line can have an internet connection. Any copper wires and any fibre into your house supplied by a carrier company can carry internet services as well as voice.
Edited by: "splender" 5th Jan
BT's plan is to implement a 'full-IP' solution by 2025, therefore turning off the analogue voice signal on a standard PSTN telephone line.

All your calls on your 'landline' will therefore travel over a data connection as an IP call.
This is much akin to the turning off of the analogue TV signal and the need for all to receive a digital set top box.
Expect there to be a push on IP phones as everyone will have to replace older home phones with digital ones.

Therefore your landline that at present carries both an internet and an analogue voice signal will change to having a digital internet service only that will allow you to call over the internet.
daeyoungja4 h, 53 m ago

1. obviously i was talking about home internet, which is connected to …1. obviously i was talking about home internet, which is connected to landline.



??? your question was "Can we actually get broadband without a landline?" i'm telling you, yes, you can get broadband without a landline.
simply phone 3 or ee they will sort you out
Wongy1103 h, 44 m ago

I had this as well(a fault 'up the pole')The broadband speed degraded …I had this as well(a fault 'up the pole')The broadband speed degraded until it was nearly unusable Like others have said not your fault get it fixed for freemuch easier these days you can do it all via text with Sky at leastsuited me just great


Thing is how does the OP who seems to have expired this for some reason, know there's a fault on the line unless he\she checked it online with BTs line tester or they told him\her. Either way it seems to me BT know theres a fault how can they not when the op does?

Honestly i don't understand what all the fuss is about your paying line rental your using the line if your not shoving a phone in the socket too thats entirely upto you but if the op was looking for somekind of argument that they should change extra he\she is barking, they wouldn't lower the cost of line rental as it is you rent the line then pay a flat rate monthly for unlimited or sometimes limited use for internet and pay verious rates for each phone call made, why does the op want a third charge added, line rental, internet, phone and call charges?

Its still cheaper then mobile internet and thats the point isn't it, cheaper for calls too for me at least.
RicknVic2 h, 53 m ago

BT's plan is to implement a 'full-IP' solution by 2025, therefore turning …BT's plan is to implement a 'full-IP' solution by 2025, therefore turning off the analogue voice signal on a standard PSTN telephone line. All your calls on your 'landline' will therefore travel over a data connection as an IP call.This is much akin to the turning off of the analogue TV signal and the need for all to receive a digital set top box.Expect there to be a push on IP phones as everyone will have to replace older home phones with digital ones.Therefore your landline that at present carries both an internet and an analogue voice signal will change to having a digital internet service only that will allow you to call over the internet.


Will the phones have to be powered from the mains or will the phone line still carry enough to self power the IP phones
daeyoungja6 h, 25 m ago

oh boohoo! my OP is what u all dont understand! i was just simply opposing …oh boohoo! my OP is what u all dont understand! i was just simply opposing what BroadbandChoices' statement: "...need active phone line for internet".as i currently been using BT broadband for 8 months now, with no "active" phone line.


You have an active phone line, it's just not providing a phone service due to a fault.

It's the line that delivers you broadband, it's only called a phone line for historical reasons because it grew out of the phone network. They provide a phone service by default as the cost is not significant enough make it worth dropping.
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