Is it not time that games involving "in game purchases " , loot boxes were banned from being promoted/posted on HUKD?

38
Posted 9th Oct
Ok most folks know about these "money traps" even non gamers like me know about them .
Plenty of links around , even @BuzzDuraband a well respected gamer on here laudably felt the need to draw attention to this problem .

Maybe some of the problem is that there is no age verification on this site ? It continually baffles me that dozens of "Gaming non deals" posted by so called experts go mindlessly hot every single day . Maybe its because children (who can't join gaming retailers sites - lack of ccard) use HUKD as a catalogue for games ? and vote every deal hot in their naivety ., swiftly followed by the rest of the gaming sheep - for a game the same price as posted earlier the same day .

That's an observation and explains why "maybe " gaming non deals inevitably are voted hot ?

My real point is that presumably the "Experts " who post most of these deals must know which ones involve "Loot Boxes" and should desist in posting such games (if they indeed do ?)

HUKD are unlikely to ban such addictive games when they really should (they bring in money after all ) , so maybe the "Experts " should realise most of their hot votes come from children and in future post only non addictive games ? After all they are the "experts" they really are the ones who should know .
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@rogparki

Essentially my understanding of your subverted message for this thread is.

1. You having a dislike for gaming, want to see less game deals, so you've fabricated a non reason to make it an issue.

2. All gamers= children and children have no sense or reasoning and as such will mindlessly vote.
The average age of gamers is 31 now from recent studies. This website is not overrun by children. If gaming deals and Chinese sellers are voted hot it's because the voting public are interested in said deals.
Can't take the thread seriously... Just came to some gamer ranting which undermined any actual point being made
B.B09/10/2019 07:41

@rogparki Essentially my understanding of your subverted message for this …@rogparki Essentially my understanding of your subverted message for this thread is.1. You having a dislike for gaming, want to see less game deals, so you've fabricated a non reason to make it an issue.2. All gamers= children and children have no sense or reasoning and as such will mindlessly vote.The average age of gamers is 31 now from recent studies. This website is not overrun by children. If gaming deals and Chinese sellers are voted hot it's because the voting public are interested in said deals.


3. Moaning about the "Experts" programme.
4. Moaning about "sheep" voting.
5. Over-use of Emojis.
6. Invite @Buzz... rather than anybody in the Admin or Moderator team because... reasons.
7. Hates kids.
8. Hates gaming.
9. Associates kids with gaming & has grumpy old man syndrome.
fanpages09/10/2019 08:55

3. Moaning about the "Experts" programme.4. Moaning about "sheep" …3. Moaning about the "Experts" programme.4. Moaning about "sheep" voting.5. Over-use of Emojis.6. Invite @Buzz... rather than anybody in the Admin or Moderator team because... reasons.7. Hates kids.8. Hates gaming.9. Associates kids with gaming & has grumpy old man syndrome.


10. I'm hungry.
38 Comments
Pretty sure gambling deals aren't allowed on site, didn't somewhere rule lootboxes as gambling?
It’s difficult tbh. So many games have them. I play many games over multiple systems and a high percentage have loot boxes and gambling aspects included yet I’ve never bought any with actual cash. Outside the price of the game.

i think you outlaw games with lootboxes and similar and you have no gaming deals.

im against all gambling mechanics in games and I don’t pay into that side.

unfortunately I enjoy playing games and don’t want to over pay or boycott games that have these features if I can enjoy other aspects in the game without having to use them.

It’s a massive issue and some games I have avoided completely and many modes I avoid.

but even games that don’t have them have had them patched in... usually after favourable reviews. Snakes.

anyway, I’m not sure removing all deals with a gambling aspect... or something that’s similar.

all FPS pretty much. All sports games... most racing. So many.

its a sad situation that much I agree but I still wanna get best deals for the games I do buy.

gaming deals go hot as people are always after the cheapest and companies do genuinely undercut each other by a quid or so multiple times. I can see the same game over two days dropping in price. For me that’s what this site is for. 98% of the stuff I look at here is gaming and I know I’m not alone.
Edited by: "joanddan7" 9th Oct
Five characteristics that differentiate gambling from other risk-related behaviours. These are:

(1)The exchange of money or something of value.

(2)A future event determines the results of this exchange, and the outcome of this event is unknown at the time that a bet is made.

(3)Chance at least partly determines the outcome of the exchange.

(4)Losses can be avoided by simply not taking part.

(5)Winners gain at the sole expense of losers.
Whether loot boxes fulfil the technical requirements to be classified as gambling is a legal matter that will vary from territory to territory and from country to country. However, the evidence presented here clearly shows that there is a very real relationship between loot box spending and problem gambling. It is our opinion that this relationship remains serious and potentially dangerous regardless of whether loot boxes are technically considered a form of gambling or not.

Can read it yourself here
joanddan709/10/2019 00:39

It’s difficult tbh. So many games have them. I play many games over m …It’s difficult tbh. So many games have them. I play many games over multiple systems and a high percentage have loot boxes and gambling aspects included yet I’ve never bought any with actual cash. Outside the price of the game.i think you outlaw games with lootboxes and similar and you have no gaming deals.im against all gambling mechanics in games and I don’t pay into that side. unfortunately I enjoy playing games and don’t want to over pay or boycott games that have these features if I can enjoy other aspects in the game without having to use them. It’s a massive issue and some games I have avoided completely and many modes I avoid. but even games that don’t have them have had them patched in... usually after favourable reviews. Snakes.anyway, I’m not sure removing all deals with a gambling aspect... or something that’s similar.all FPS pretty much. All sports games... most racing. So many.its a sad situation that much I agree but I still wanna get best deals for the games I do buy.



You appear to have a wary , balanced view of these games . I'm sure you also cannot be fooled into thinking there are many really "great gaming deals " on HUKD amongst the 2 or 3 hundred posted daily (most of which go mindlessly hot ) .

It is effectively promoting gambling by stealth . Fine for adults who can manage it (not so good for those who can't ) But its what it does to kids that appals me . So many kids rack up huge amounts when playing with their parents accounts (or maybe adding money from their parents credit cards ) . Sadly we read about it daily . I have no cross to bear other than trying to look after fellow members . I'm sure you look at the "Hot" gaming deals on here and wonder - why hot ? Then if you realise its kids voting all these gaming deals hot then it starts to make sense .

Our less savvy members ,as well as the children need some protection. A deal posted on HUKD attains some sort of legitimacy (almost , to some , recommended and approved by HUKD ) - obviously this is not the case but can appear so to many .
Edited by: "rogparki" 9th Oct
Can't take the thread seriously... Just came to some gamer ranting which undermined any actual point being made
I blame the parents
I actually don’t think HUKD’s need to do anything about the situation or the gaming industry with regards to loot boxes.

Adults need to take some responsibility for their own actions and don’t need to by nannied by HUKD’s.

Should we then by the same logic ban all alcohol deals as people can become addicted to it. Or ban all knife deals as there is a huge issue with knife crime and people are been killed and injured


As for kids using the site and racking up large bills then to me that becomes the parents responsibility surely.

The racking up huge credit card bills stories have been appearing for ages and can be avoided by not adding your credit card in the first place. Purchases can be made using gift cards. You can also require a permission and password requirement if you do add a card.

I know very little about gaming but I make sure I learnt how to set up parental controls on the devices my kids are using and also make sure I have an idea about the games they are playing are they age appropriate, what in game purchases are they making and set time restrictions.
Edited by: "myusernamehasgone234" 9th Oct
The second issue of all the gaming non deals going hot is a complete separate topic.

You can’t influence how other people vote or guess their motives. Although I would agree it appears to me people vote with the flow like sheep.

Voting can be incredibly unpredictable on the site and you never know how a deal will perform.

Do I personally get sick of all the repeat gaming deals saving a few pence absolutely, I rarely vote either way unless am on the look out at the time for a particular game.

Do I expect the experts to stop posting these deals anytime soon absolutely not unless the programme finishes and I suspect there will be a large dip in deals by these members.

But as a huge amount of the highlighted deals are by staff and experts I suspect the programme to continue and the gaming deals to continue as well.

I hope my comment doesn’t break any rules and has stuck to the topic as I’ve had a comments removed recently when discussing the site & experts.
Edited by: "myusernamehasgone234" 9th Oct
@rogparki

Essentially my understanding of your subverted message for this thread is.

1. You having a dislike for gaming, want to see less game deals, so you've fabricated a non reason to make it an issue.

2. All gamers= children and children have no sense or reasoning and as such will mindlessly vote.
The average age of gamers is 31 now from recent studies. This website is not overrun by children. If gaming deals and Chinese sellers are voted hot it's because the voting public are interested in said deals.
I will vote on a game that is both GOOD & cheap, however I won't vote for crud like fortnite which is a lootbox hell. ..thats not what gaming should be about. ..yes if you pay for chance loot it is gambling indeed, don't want that in the sector.

I did buy PUBG & found it lacking in the first few games, haven't touched it since, it was about £6.00 so cheap enough not to cry over when I found it carp!
I vote on the ones I think are cheap and good. I don't mind having micro transactions for a game as long as they stay cosmetic and are dlc maps. But hate it when you can only get a weapon from a loot box.
Mr_Gus09/10/2019 08:00

I will vote on a game that is both GOOD & cheap, however I won't vote for …I will vote on a game that is both GOOD & cheap, however I won't vote for crud like fortnite which is a lootbox hell. ..thats not what gaming should be about. ..yes if you pay for chance loot it is gambling indeed, don't want that in the sector.I did buy PUBG & found it lacking in the first few games, haven't touched it since, it was about £6.00 so cheap enough not to cry over when I found it carp!


Sounds a bit fishy.

I have played Fortnite (on a PlayStation 4 in a team of two PS4 players & two PC players; all family members). Didn't pay for the game. Didn't spend any money on new socks, or a splendid hat, a silly costume, weapon upgrade, or anything else that was offered to me. Had fun for a while. Ranked in the top 3 in my first game. Didn't do so well in other games. No plans to return, but the "lootbox" (micro-transaction) approach didn't bother me at all.
How you've managed to make this about gaming deals going hot and the Pepper Expert Programme absolutely baffles me.

I don't doubt you have genuine concerns about your original point, but your approach on the subject derailed by the PEP and gaming deals going hot rant was totally unnecessary and a cheap shot.
B.B09/10/2019 07:41

@rogparki Essentially my understanding of your subverted message for this …@rogparki Essentially my understanding of your subverted message for this thread is.1. You having a dislike for gaming, want to see less game deals, so you've fabricated a non reason to make it an issue.2. All gamers= children and children have no sense or reasoning and as such will mindlessly vote.The average age of gamers is 31 now from recent studies. This website is not overrun by children. If gaming deals and Chinese sellers are voted hot it's because the voting public are interested in said deals.


3. Moaning about the "Experts" programme.
4. Moaning about "sheep" voting.
5. Over-use of Emojis.
6. Invite @Buzz... rather than anybody in the Admin or Moderator team because... reasons.
7. Hates kids.
8. Hates gaming.
9. Associates kids with gaming & has grumpy old man syndrome.
fanpages09/10/2019 08:49

Sounds a bit fishy.I have played Fortnite (on a PlayStation 4 in a team of …Sounds a bit fishy.I have played Fortnite (on a PlayStation 4 in a team of two PS4 players & two PC players; all family members). Didn't pay for the game. Didn't spend any money on new socks, or a splendid hat, a silly costume, weapon upgrade, or anything else that was offered to me. Had fun for a while. Ranked in the top 3 in my first game. Didn't do so well in other games. No plans to return, but the "lootbox" (micro-transaction) approach didn't bother me at all.


Why fishy exactly?

I don't agree with games that want to flog you stuff (some DLC's have always been that way so I tended to buy the GOTY edition) after a few years.
PUBG was low, low quality, don't agree with selective advantage of the cash kind, nor do I want my kid, nor myself getting unwittingly sucked into that.

Gaming can be addictive enough as it is in terms of rush & "just one more go"
its personal choice if you buy in game purchases or loot boxes, you can play the games without buying stuff. just means working at it. if children buy stuff without consent from parents thats down to parenting not the games...
Mr_Gus09/10/2019 08:59

Why fishy exactly?


Your spelling of "crap".

Mr_Gus09/10/2019 08:59

...I don't agree with games that want to flog you stuff (some DLC's have …...I don't agree with games that want to flog you stuff (some DLC's have always been that way so I tended to buy the GOTY edition) after a few years...


OK. If it is download content for online multiplayer games (like additional maps), for instance, & it is a game I spent to play a great deal (like anything in the "Uncharted" series, or "The Last of Us") then I will buy these add-ons, but something to enhance a single player offline experience (like, say, "Horizon: Zero Dawn", I would wait for the ultimate re-release, as you mentioned, or not bother at all).

Mr_Gus09/10/2019 08:59

PUBG was low, low quality, don't agree with selective advantage of the …PUBG was low, low quality, don't agree with selective advantage of the cash kind, nor do I want my kid, nor myself getting unwittingly sucked into that.Gaming can be addictive enough as it is in terms of rush & "just one more go"


Have some willpower. You don't have to buy anything. If a game requires you to make additional purchases in order to progress, just walk away. You can enjoy playing up until that point though.
Nobody is really keen on loot boxes but there's always parental control and self control.
fanpages09/10/2019 08:55

3. Moaning about the "Experts" programme.4. Moaning about "sheep" …3. Moaning about the "Experts" programme.4. Moaning about "sheep" voting.5. Over-use of Emojis.6. Invite @Buzz... rather than anybody in the Admin or Moderator team because... reasons.7. Hates kids.8. Hates gaming.9. Associates kids with gaming & has grumpy old man syndrome.


10. I'm hungry.
Byno09/10/2019 09:39

Nobody is really keen on loot boxes but there's always parental control …Nobody is really keen on loot boxes but there's always parental control and self control.


Aren’t they blind bags every parents worse nightmare
I think you lot scared him off
Gambling within gaming is rife, I used to be adrenaline addicted to arcade games, (not fruit machines), this was when I was kid, however I was in a way lucky it was at the advent of the home pc game origins (zx spectrum).

Its something that makes me wary to this day, & a few nights of dry eyeball all night gaming standing up.
Kids don't necessarily have self control, but they may have access to parents card details / misuse general credits that can be cross purposed.
BuzzDuraband09/10/2019 08:53

How you've managed to make this about gaming deals going hot and the …How you've managed to make this about gaming deals going hot and the Pepper Expert Programme absolutely baffles me. I don't doubt you have genuine concerns about your original point, but your approach on the subject derailed by the PEP and gaming deals going hot rant was totally unnecessary and a cheap shot.


Notice how he willingly ignores the fact that many gaming deals also go cold / don’t reach hot status too?

@rogparki The reason why you see a lot of gaming deals on here is because around 50% of the UK population play video games. I want loot boxes banned as much as the next person, but this was a poor attempt at, yet again, trying to have a rant about gaming deals. The majority do not agree with you. Either get over it or scroll past the deals like the rest of us do when we see deals that don’t interest us. This site doesn’t exist to only cater to you and your interests/hobbies.
I do like all those who say there is Parental Control and Self Control.

You do know, you have no clue on Gambling and other Habit's including drugs.

When you get in a Habit, it becomes Toxic and is there NHS routes to help you with the NHS crisis?

You're lucky if you can get out of the situation and it's only those who have loyal and a proper family around you which help.

The majority of gaming comes from peer pressure and trying to be the best, just like anything in Schools with being in, the incrowd.

Sorry to say, most gamers of a young again are from low income or families who work a lot and got no one to keep them occupied.

It's not that far ago that parents gave kids tablets and all to keep the occupied, and in my day, a game was a game 80s mainly.

Yes, on and off a trip to a chippy to play DonkeyKong, Mortal Kombat and so on.

We ended up doing paper-rounds and all to save up for games, not now it's Free 2 Play, but you got InGame Purchases and many ways to fund, mobile credit, PP, CC, and whole number of other pay methods.

So before you say self-control, you are saying to anyone who has a habit, it's their fault they got a smoking problem, drinking problem, drug problem and all.

The problem stems from many issue's including Social.
Mole00709/10/2019 12:01

I do like all those who say there is Parental Control and Self Control.


The parental control comments are about preventing your kids from racking up huge payments on your account. (A point the OP made) Nothing to do with gambling as you have alluded to. If you’re leaving your card details on your child’s console, unprotected, you do deserve everything you get. That is plain stupidity. I don’t have kids and I don’t even keep mine stored because of the potential for hijacked accounts.

Mole00709/10/2019 12:01

When you get in a Habit, it becomes Toxic and is there NHS routes to help …When you get in a Habit, it becomes Toxic and is there NHS routes to help you with the NHS crisis?


Yes. Plenty. They have just set up gaming addiction clinics for people too.

Mole00709/10/2019 12:01

The majority of gaming comes from peer pressure and trying to be the best, …The majority of gaming comes from peer pressure and trying to be the best, just like anything in Schools with being in, the incrowd.


Nah. To you they might be, but most play games just to relax and enjoy it. Just as people do with films and books.

Mole00709/10/2019 12:01

Sorry to say, most gamers of a young again are from low income or families …Sorry to say, most gamers of a young again are from low income or families who work a lot and got no one to keep them occupied.


This is simply not true. When games consoles can cost up to £450 to buy, low income families cannot afford them. They usually end up playing the previous gen consoles, which loot boxes do not exist on as it is a new mechanic. I seriously doubt parents are leaving their kids to be occupied by a games console so they can work too.

Mole00709/10/2019 12:01

It's not that far ago that parents gave kids tablets and all to keep the …It's not that far ago that parents gave kids tablets and all to keep the occupied, and in my day, a game was a game 80s mainly.


Yep, this is a problem. It was back in the 80s when some parents used TV as a babysitting tool too. It’s not a new thing.

Mole00709/10/2019 12:01

it's their fault they got a smoking problem, drinking problem, drug …it's their fault they got a smoking problem, drinking problem, drug problem and all.The problem stems from many issue's including Social.


I mean, I’d say it is your own fault if you start smoking. I was around plenty of smokers growing up from parents, to friends. Tried a cigarette once. Never touch it again. Nobody put pressure on me to continue. If your friends did that, then they aren’t your friends. That is pure self control.

Drinking can go either way as it’s more complex, same with drugs. People in my experience, do drugs because they think it’s cool and they like the kick it gives them. I do acknowledge that some do it to avoid the harsh reality life has dealt them however. It’s not a one cap fits all issue. I very rarely drink alcohol now. Nobody gives me grief for not doing so as long as you don’t act high and almighty about not drinking.

Loot boxes prey on people with gambling like mechanics. They should be outright banned. Capitalism is the real cause of all this. The recent occurrence of finicky shareholders dropping shares in a company if they don’t continue to show exponential growth year on year. Not gaming as a medium. We heard very, very few accounts of gaming addiction prior to the invention of loot boxes.
Edited by: "Biddy2" 9th Oct
Mole00709/10/2019 12:01

I do like all those who say there is Parental Control and Self Control.You …I do like all those who say there is Parental Control and Self Control.You do know, you have no clue on Gambling and other Habit's including drugs.When you get in a Habit, it becomes Toxic and is there NHS routes to help you with the NHS crisis?You're lucky if you can get out of the situation and it's only those who have loyal and a proper family around you which help.The majority of gaming comes from peer pressure and trying to be the best, just like anything in Schools with being in, the incrowd.Sorry to say, most gamers of a young again are from low income or families who work a lot and got no one to keep them occupied.It's not that far ago that parents gave kids tablets and all to keep the occupied, and in my day, a game was a game 80s mainly.Yes, on and off a trip to a chippy to play DonkeyKong, Mortal Kombat and so on.We ended up doing paper-rounds and all to save up for games, not now it's Free 2 Play, but you got InGame Purchases and many ways to fund, mobile credit, PP, CC, and whole number of other pay methods.So before you say self-control, you are saying to anyone who has a habit, it's their fault they got a smoking problem, drinking problem, drug problem and all.The problem stems from many issue's including Social.


Sorry I wasn’t implying that addiction is avoidable but that as adults be are responsible for our own actions rather than expecting someone else to look after us.

I was no way judging anyone who has become addicted to anything including drugs and alcohol as you never know what a person has been through.

I perhaps was poorly trying to highlight the difference between a child’s addiction and adults.

As I do think it is a parents responsibility to ensure child does not become addicted.

Parent can take away devices, put limits on and monitor what a child is doing.

Your argument about working long hours and having little money doesn’t seem right to me, consoles and games are expensive and they could read to pass the time and books are free from the library and way cheaper than video games.

Parents should be looking for warning signs like disturbed sleeping patterns, eating patterns, with drawn behaviour and dealing with it. You should know how much time your child is online or gaming.

I believe many of society problems are due to a lack of parenting. People need to be responsible for their own children.

This generation face a whole wrath of problems we never encountered as children as we didn’t have the internet, social media and smart phone. It’s isn’t an easy task to parent children and teens these days but if you chose to have children the it has to be done.

My son was becoming irritable after he got his switch he ended up with a two month flat ban. I took away the switch and I noticed a huge change in his behaviour and now he is allowed much less time than before to prevent the same thing happening again.
myusernamehasgone23409/10/2019 13:31

Sorry I wasn’t implying that addiction is avoidable but that as adults be a …Sorry I wasn’t implying that addiction is avoidable but that as adults be are responsible for our own actions rather than expecting someone else to look after us. I was no way judging anyone who has become addicted to anything including drugs and alcohol as you never know what a person has been through. I perhaps was poorly trying to highlight the difference between a child’s addiction and adults.As I do think it is a parents responsibility to ensure child does not become addicted.Parent can take away devices, put limits on and monitor what a child is doing.Your argument about working long hours and having little money doesn’t seem right to me, consoles and games are expensive and they could read to pass the time and books are free from the library and way cheaper than video games.Parents should be looking for warning signs like disturbed sleeping patterns, eating patterns, with drawn behaviour and dealing with it. You should know how much time your child is online or gaming.I believe many of society problems are due to a lack of parenting. People need to be responsible for their own children.This generation face a whole wrath of problems we never encountered as children as we didn’t have the internet, social media and smart phone. It’s isn’t an easy task to parent children and teens these days but if you chose to have children the it has to be done.My son was becoming irritable after he got his switch he ended up with a two month flat ban. I took away the switch and I noticed a huge change in his behaviour and now he is allowed much less time than before to prevent the same thing happening again.


Personally, I’d ban social media or, at the least, regulate it extremely heavy . Today, that is the root cause of most of society’s problems. With everything from fake news being spread, to people being overly obsessed with impressing others rather than being comfortable in themselves. It is rife with bullying as people believe they can say what they like to others because “it’s the internet. It’s not real life” too. It’s being weaponised as a tool to spread propaganda by political parties to achieve their own agendas. It’s the most dangerous thing to society at the moment in my opinion.

Social media being banned, would also stop people staring at their phones 24/7 too. That only began when Facebook arose.
Edited by: "Biddy2" 9th Oct
awiew09/10/2019 10:58

I think you lot scared him off



I afraid that is very unlikely . I have broad shoulders , a thick skin and the back of a Duck . The day that I'm "scared off" by juvenile comments from the usual suspects is a long time away . Do juvenile adverse comments on a shopping site scare you ?

I posted this question last night due to press coverage of a problem that most of us have known about for years , some ignore , many have genuine concerns .

I am encouraged by the many thoughtful , concerned , intelligent comments in response . Of course there are the juveniles (same old usernames ) , seizing the opportunity to impress their "imaginary friends" by having a go at "rogparki" . As previously stated "whatever floats your boat " your comments have zero effect on me and I doubt they impress you "imaginary friends " either .

To clarify . Who is in the best position to know which games are unsuitable for children or vulnerable adults ? Certainly not me .. Could it be our many gaming "experts " ?

Is it not incumbent upon these "experts" and indeed HUKD to at least provide a warning that gambling (loot box) content is part of any gaming deal posted ?

Thanks again for those who have made intelligent contributions to this post , I think we have established it is a serious matter of concern to many . To the others - you have my sympathy and I shall be giving you ample opportunities over the coming months to impress your "imaginary friends " .

Meanwhile we have a very worrying gaming trend to address - Over to you HUKD and HUKD "gaming experts " .
what evidence do you have that its children voting them hot. surely you need to start with that before you make that accusation? I only say this because I game every day, im 32. and I vote gaming deals hot. maybe there are others?

children who play those type of games though I do agree they will want to have everything and it can be addicting but this is where its the parents responsibility for allowing it to happen. not limiting game time etc. (lazy parenting)

it should not be the responsibility of a deals website to outline potential risks. that's all everything is these days. warning signs everywhere over every little thing
myusernamehasgone23409/10/2019 13:31

Sorry I wasn’t implying that addiction is avoidable but that as adults be a …Sorry I wasn’t implying that addiction is avoidable but that as adults be are responsible for our own actions rather than expecting someone else to look after us. I was no way judging anyone who has become addicted to anything including drugs and alcohol as you never know what a person has been through. I perhaps was poorly trying to highlight the difference between a child’s addiction and adults.As I do think it is a parents responsibility to ensure child does not become addicted.Parent can take away devices, put limits on and monitor what a child is doing.Your argument about working long hours and having little money doesn’t seem right to me, consoles and games are expensive and they could read to pass the time and books are free from the library and way cheaper than video games.Parents should be looking for warning signs like disturbed sleeping patterns, eating patterns, with drawn behaviour and dealing with it. You should know how much time your child is online or gaming.I believe many of society problems are due to a lack of parenting. People need to be responsible for their own children.This generation face a whole wrath of problems we never encountered as children as we didn’t have the internet, social media and smart phone. It’s isn’t an easy task to parent children and teens these days but if you chose to have children the it has to be done.My son was becoming irritable after he got his switch he ended up with a two month flat ban. I took away the switch and I noticed a huge change in his behaviour and now he is allowed much less time than before to prevent the same thing happening again.



My post wasn't aiming at anyone in particular, but general info.

See the problem with the part's you missed are, gaming devices are fairly cheap and there are a lot of game's available and work on mobile devices.

Also, many PC game's are Free 2 Play as I pointed out, and the Catch22 which Parent's wouldn't have a clue is, InGame Purchases and various methods of funding this.

As for books, Library and all, it is area by area (my area 2 have closed), and in my day we did all that, but mid 80s you started getting the improved Spectrums, Commodore's and all, which were full games, but there was none of this InGame Purchases as no Net.

My reference you overlooked is, everything these days is so easy for kids to learn through Social Media friends and School friends of tech savvy. I worked in the field and the amount of times I saw kids showing the Teacher's what to do or how to do something was gobsmacking.

Kids with tech aren't dumb no more, just like all the tricks we see on here about getting around things.

It's simple these day's.

So while you say Parent's job and look for sign's, it's not that simple, and I pointed out, I have seen a lot of parents/grandparents work more than 1 job or are hardly at home to supervise their kids/grandkids and only those who know tech know what to look for and how to configure things correctly. Even saying that, it's not that difficult to get around things.

At the end of the day, only parent's that are well off have more chance of doing what you saying, the majority in the current state of affairs are the kids from poor to middle class (if it still exists) and end up with the bigger issues with the people they hang around with and then get caught up with the whole culture of being better at game's or gaming.

Anyway, with the cheap offer's on Games and Free 2 Play, the main topic of Lootboxes and all are more to do with them.

I played Lord of the Rings Online and they now gone extreme on Lootboxes too after removing the key drops to open free box drops. The majority of these boxes give the wrong gear for your Class, so I have no idea why this is Legal. The gear get's bound to you and no way you can do anything with it.

IMO - Lootboxes should be Banned, and get back to how games were done.

It will never happen, but we can wish for it.
Edited by: "Mole007" 10th Oct
Biddy209/10/2019 13:09

The parental control comments are about preventing your kids from racking …The parental control comments are about preventing your kids from racking up huge payments on your account. (A point the OP made) Nothing to do with gambling as you have alluded to. If you’re leaving your card details on your child’s console, unprotected, you do deserve everything you get. That is plain stupidity. I don’t have kids and I don’t even keep mine stored because of the potential for hijacked accounts. Yes. Plenty. They have just set up gaming addiction clinics for people too. Nah. To you they might be, but most play games just to relax and enjoy it. Just as people do with films and books. This is simply not true. When games consoles can cost up to £450 to buy, low income families cannot afford them. They usually end up playing the previous gen consoles, which loot boxes do not exist on as it is a new mechanic. I seriously doubt parents are leaving their kids to be occupied by a games console so they can work too. Yep, this is a problem. It was back in the 80s when some parents used TV as a babysitting tool too. It’s not a new thing.I mean, I’d say it is your own fault if you start smoking. I was around plenty of smokers growing up from parents, to friends. Tried a cigarette once. Never touch it again. Nobody put pressure on me to continue. If your friends did that, then they aren’t your friends. That is pure self control. Drinking can go either way as it’s more complex, same with drugs. People in my experience, do drugs because they think it’s cool and they like the kick it gives them. I do acknowledge that some do it to avoid the harsh reality life has dealt them however. It’s not a one cap fits all issue. I very rarely drink alcohol now. Nobody gives me grief for not doing so as long as you don’t act high and almighty about not drinking.Loot boxes prey on people with gambling like mechanics. They should be outright banned. Capitalism is the real cause of all this. The recent occurrence of finicky shareholders dropping shares in a company if they don’t continue to show exponential growth year on year. Not gaming as a medium. We heard very, very few accounts of gaming addiction prior to the invention of loot boxes.



TBH - you've not got a clue.

By what you say, you've lived in a nice area then.

You don't need CC to fund Games no more, so you are clearly mislead on this.

I'm a fraid LootBox is Gambling, it falls under the criteria if you read it, which clearly you haven't.
The last PM Enquiry on the Gaming Company's ( they didn't even seem to know their own games and the habits) sums a lot up.

You are deluded on comparing expensive consoles to other gaming.
You do know you can play Games on Mobile devices and their is a vast majority of F2P games out there, which you seem to have no clue on.

Again, you clearly not done you research on parents have left kids at home or let their kids visit friends as it easier for them. There has been a vast amount of media and programs on the subject, but I'm not going to do the research for you as you want to disagree no matter.

Will make one other point, as you clearly not got a clue on, then I will leave it as that, as you going to disagree no matter.

So Cigarette's and other variants don't cause addiction?
Is this why the Government/NHS have Break the Habit adverts and many other schemes out there?

60s/70s+ it was common for groups to smoke and even the 80s, if not 90s, because of the gang culture and groups you had. The main culture was 60s/70s and 80s as it was times of acting all tough and all.

So while you didn't like it (same for me), I don't base my comments on the odd one out as I talk about the majority and how it is one method of addiction. not whether you personally smoked or now.

The various schemes and pictures on products shows the dangers of it, and there are other factors people do not give up i.e stress and hence, needing them.

So while you think there isn't a problems, it nice to know, but I base it on fact's.
Edited by: "Mole007" 10th Oct
Mole00710/10/2019 15:47

TBH - you've not got a clue.By what you say, you've lived in a nice area …TBH - you've not got a clue.By what you say, you've lived in a nice area then.


This is completely irrelevant to the discussion and is being used as a means to attempt to discredit what I said. Stick to the comments and don’t straw-man.

Mole00710/10/2019 15:47

You don't need CC to fund Games no more, so you are clearly mislead on …You don't need CC to fund Games no more, so you are clearly mislead on this.


Parental controls still can be activated to prevent purchases on games consoles. Adults have to buy children those cards. You can require a password to be used at checkout. So no, it is you who is mislead on this matter.

Mole00710/10/2019 15:47

I'm a fraid LootBox is Gambling, it falls under the criteria if you read …I'm a fraid LootBox is Gambling, it falls under the criteria if you read it, which clearly you haven't.The last PM Enquiry on the Gaming Company's ( they didn't even seem to know their own games and the habits) sums a lot up.



I said Loot boxes are gambling. Try reading comments correctly before spewing off in rages. The gambling commission also said they are not gambling by current UK law standards, so actually, you haven’t read what you claim to have. Loot boxes avoid the legal definition by offering no monetary value to win. They do however, use the same psychological means of trying to addict you to them, hence why the government has become interested in them.

Mole00710/10/2019 15:47

You are deluded on comparing expensive consoles to other gaming.You do …You are deluded on comparing expensive consoles to other gaming.You do know you can play Games on Mobile devices and their is a vast majority of F2P games out there, which you seem to have no clue on.



I’ve been gaming for 25 years. I am well aware of how people can game. Again, children cannot get access if those parental controls are turned on. You can require the use of a password on every purchase you make. Even free to play games. It is yourself who has no clue.

Mole00710/10/2019 15:47

Again, you clearly not done you research on parents have left kids at home …Again, you clearly not done you research on parents have left kids at home or let their kids visit friends as it easier for them. There has been a vast amount of media and programs on the subject, but I'm not going to do the research for you as you want to disagree no matter.Will make one other point, as you clearly not got a clue on, then I will leave it as that, as you going to disagree no matter.


Some may do that. Not all. Those some being bad parents. Newsflash, bad parents have always existed. That’s why we have things like Social Services. Stop scaremongering.

Mole00710/10/2019 15:47

So Cigarette's and other variants don't cause addiction?Is this why the …So Cigarette's and other variants don't cause addiction?Is this why the Government/NHS have Break the Habit adverts and many other schemes out there?60s/70s+ it was common for groups to smoke and even the 80s, if not 90s, because of the gang culture and groups you had. The main culture was 60s/70s and 80s as it was times of acting all tough and all. So while you didn't like it (same for me), I don't base my comments on the odd one out as I talk about the majority and how it is one method of addiction. not whether you personally smoked or now.The various schemes and pictures on products shows the dangers of it, and there are other factors people do not give up i.e stress and hence, needing them.So while you think there isn't a problems, it nice to know, but I base it on fact's.


Starting smoking is a choice. Nobody is forced into that. Nobody’s life forces them down that path. If you start as a means to look tough or cool, that’s on you. Smoking doesn’t mess with your inhibitions. Drugs and alcohol do, hence why people with alcohol and drug addictions do it. To block out what is going wrong in their lives. Smoking won’t give you that. I never once claimed people aren’t addicted to it either.

Smoking, alcohol and drug addictions are also PHYSICAL addictions. They are not mental addictions like gambling. The latter is a mental health issue. Alcohol and drug addiction can be byproducts of a mental health issue/or having a bad life, but smoking is a choice that becomes an addiction. Those are facts.

So next time you want to reply to my post and claim I am “deluded, mislead” while strawmaning and accusing me of things I didn’t say, try getting off your high horse and try arguing points in good faith.
deleted90213909/10/2019 20:09

To clarify . Who is in the best position to know which games are …To clarify . Who is in the best position to know which games are unsuitable for children or vulnerable adults ?


At this point? It’s going to take government intervention. The industry bodies here in the UK/EU and the US are no more than lobbyists for the game industry. They’re the biggest con going.

For example, the CEO of the ERSB in the US is a man called Strauss Zelnick. This man, is also CEO of 2K games. Guess which company is one of the worst offenders for Loot Boxes? You guessed it.

If you want to find out more about Loot Boxes, I recommend you watch the videos on the topic by Jim Sterling. (On Youtube) He is a bit too colourful with his language, but he absolutely nails it every time about them.
Mole00710/10/2019 15:02

My post wasn't aiming at anyone in particular, but general info.See the …My post wasn't aiming at anyone in particular, but general info.See the problem with the part's you missed are, gaming devices are fairly cheap and there are a lot of game's available and work on mobile devices.Also, many PC game's are Free 2 Play as I pointed out, and the Catch22 which Parent's wouldn't have a clue is, InGame Purchases and various methods of funding this.As for books, Library and all, it is area by area (my area 2 have closed), and in my day we did all that, but mid 80s you started getting the improved Spectrums, Commodore's and all, which were full games, but there was none of this InGame Purchases as no Net.My reference you overlooked is, everything these days is so easy for kids to learn through Social Media friends and School friends of tech savvy. I worked in the field and the amount of times I saw kids showing the Teacher's what to do or how to do something was gobsmacking.Kids with tech aren't dumb no more, just like all the tricks we see on here about getting around things.It's simple these day's.So while you say Parent's job and look for sign's, it's not that simple, and I pointed out, I have seen a lot of parents/grandparents work more than 1 job or are hardly at home to supervise their kids/grandkids and only those who know tech know what to look for and how to configure things correctly. Even saying that, it's not that difficult to get around things.At the end of the day, only parent's that are well off have more chance of doing what you saying, the majority in the current state of affairs are the kids from poor to middle class (if it still exists) and end up with the bigger issues with the people they hang around with and then get caught up with the whole culture of being better at game's or gaming.Anyway, with the cheap offer's on Games and Free 2 Play, the main topic of Lootboxes and all are more to do with them.I played Lord of the Rings Online and they now gone extreme on Lootboxes too after removing the key drops to open free box drops. The majority of these boxes give the wrong gear for your Class, so I have no idea why this is Legal. The gear get's bound to you and no way you can do anything with it.IMO - Lootboxes should be Banned, and get back to how games were done.It will never happen, but we can wish for it.



I would disagree I know nothing about tech but have managed to configure all the setting and controls on my kids phones and devices.
as you pointed out you can use the internet to get all the info needed to do.

Yes it’s not fool proof but its a start. Did my son get around his phone adult content setting yes, so I physically removed the phone from him until I could figure out how tighten up the controls further and at the same time spoke to him about it and discussed why the controls were in place.

Next step had it continued would be to replace the phone with a cheap non smart phone. Kids don’t have to have these devices they a luxury item not a necessity that can be removed from them.

Money has got little to do with this issue at all. Many well off families equally don’t see there children much as they too work long hours to provide a lifestyle for there families, some parents don’t work at all so could have all the time in the world to parent and supervise there kids but ignore them and let them do whatever they want.

Having money can often create its own problems like spoilt brats who have everything and always have to have their own way and don’t know how to accept the word no.

Poor parenting can be seen in whatever a families income and circumstance just as equally good parenting can be seen whatever their circumstances too.
myusernamehasgone23411/10/2019 05:52

I would disagree I know nothing about tech but have managed to configure …I would disagree I know nothing about tech but have managed to configure all the setting and controls on my kids phones and devices.as you pointed out you can use the internet to get all the info needed to do. Yes it’s not fool proof but its a start. Did my son get around his phone adult content setting yes, so I physically removed the phone from him until I could figure out how tighten up the controls further and at the same time spoke to him about it and discussed why the controls were in place. Next step had it continued would be to replace the phone with a cheap non smart phone. Kids don’t have to have these devices they a luxury item not a necessity that can be removed from them. Money has got little to do with this issue at all. Many well off families equally don’t see there children much as they too work long hours to provide a lifestyle for there families, some parents don’t work at all so could have all the time in the world to parent and supervise there kids but ignore them and let them do whatever they want.Having money can often create its own problems like spoilt brats who have everything and always have to have their own way and don’t know how to accept the word no.Poor parenting can be seen in whatever a families income and circumstance just as equally good parenting can be seen whatever their circumstances too.



See that's good for you, but please remember the ratio.

I've worked in the field as explained and know how kids will get around it.

While yours is one in a 1000/10000/1000000 there are many factors in it.

When we setup systems in Education, Collegese, Uni etc , older kids could get bootup devices and get around the systems, same with locked down systems, so we had to basically disable everything or most of it, for the systems to function i.e, can't disable USB fully.

While you kept an eye on your kid,kids then their knowledge clearly isn't as good as one's I have met.

You can get all sort's of way's around including sandboxing, private browsing and all, all the way to getting devices linked.

While you've done a great job, please remember the one's who can't do that, and while you think you have setup a good system, there is always ways around including the old style commands and not using the web interfaces to setup the router etc.

This is why ISP routers and all are very limited what you can do on them, but there is always ways around, and it's not my place to say how.

Since this is distracting the Original Topic, I am going to stick to the Lootbox discussion.

My view is to have them banned, as there is always ways around and they lead to Gambling.
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