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    Is this how bad this country is?

    kk for the people who want to critisize me i remove this bit.

    32 Comments

    Defending your own property is the right thing to do and i would have done the same in that situation, which is the reason i keep a machete next to my bed. STAB SLASH KIIIIIIIIIILL

    If you break into someone's house you should be prepared to face the consequences, although in this case I think the police are right to investigate. They were called to a disturbance and 6 people were arrested after a 17 year old was fatally stabbed? Something seems out of place there.

    odriscoll;4645653

    Defending your own property is the right thing to do and i would have … Defending your own property is the right thing to do and i would have done the same in that situation, which is the reason i keep a machete next to my bed. STAB SLASH KIIIIIIIIIILL



    Sweet Jesus! :thinking:

    ChipSticks;4645673

    If you break into someone's house you should be prepared to face the … If you break into someone's house you should be prepared to face the consequences, although in this case I think the police are right to investigate. They were called to a disturbance and 6 people were arrested after a 17 year old was fatally stabbed? Something seems out of place there.



    Agreed, sounds fishy.

    did the op even read that report. burglary is one line of investigation the police are looking at and 6 guys were questioned about it. Theres far more going on than those "cliffs" suggest.

    As above, you have just made up those "notes" from possible areas of investigation; it might be perfectly true, but it also is just an assumption for now.

    I also don't believe that breaking and entering should be met with lethal force, just proportionate. I don't know yet whether this was proportionate.

    Original Poster

    ants97;4645683

    did the op even read that report. burglary is one line of investigation … did the op even read that report. burglary is one line of investigation the police are looking at and 6 guys were questioned about it. Theres far more going on than those "cliffs" suggest.


    yes, there was 6 people in the house.
    pghstochaj;4645686

    As above, you have just made up those "notes" from possible areas of … As above, you have just made up those "notes" from possible areas of investigation; it might be perfectly true, but it also is just an assumption for now.I also don't believe that breaking and entering should be met with lethal force, just proportionate. I don't know yet whether this was proportionate.


    so if for eg. someone breaks into your house with a knife, you say 'come here, he's a fat lip'.
    Im not saying the kid was armed in any way. jussayin.

    Banned

    shall we go down the same route for shopkeepers who lose out on stock via kids knicking sweets, protecting ones property is fine and should be done within reason

    t0mm;4645690

    yes, there was 6 people in the house.so if for eg. someone breaks into … yes, there was 6 people in the house.so if for eg. someone breaks into your house with a knife, you say 'come here, he's a fat lip'.Im not saying the kid was armed in any way. jussayin.



    Hence "proportionate" is in the law.

    Well if somebody enters my house and is armed with a knife, it's game over for me, the last thing I would do is get a knife of my own, that ends in either me being murdered or me having to take a life; something I couldn't do very easily. I would just stand back and they can take my items; it's not worth killing for either way. If on the other hand they were intent on killing me, I would be forced to actively defend myself.

    Alternatively, if somebody does enter my property and is unarmed then I would be happy to ask them to leave with my 4D maglite. Thankfully I have a very secure property, so the chances are low.

    I know somebody who lives just a few doors down from where this actually happened and must have been past the house 100s of times (enough to have known where it was when I saw the photograph) - it's not the sort of area I would be breaking and entering if I had a choice.

    Original Poster

    sassie;4645719

    shall we go down the same route for shopkeepers who lose out on stock via … shall we go down the same route for shopkeepers who lose out on stock via kids knicking sweets, protecting ones property is fine and should be done within reason



    this is the same as a shopkeeper how?
    if their shop is broken into yes.

    same as a house, you're saying if someone breaks in you'll say 'bad boy.. heres a cuppa'?

    tinkerbell28;4645699

    Is it me or does that story not follow the op. There is no guarantee … Is it me or does that story not follow the op. There is no guarantee right now IT WAS burglary, it is a line of investigation? So at the moment they are looking at it as murder, as someone has been stabbed and killed after all, until lines of investigation have opened up:thinking:To be honest I think people have a right to protect their home of course I do and I think potential burglers should be prepared to face the consequences. But IF this was the case police always have duty to investigate as under the law you are allowed to protect your house with reasonable force. If you stabbed a man several times who had been caught in the act and was fleeing the scene posing no harm, that would then be murder.



    Which thankfully it is.

    Original Poster

    pghstochaj;4645721

    Hence "proportionate" is in the law.Well if somebody enters my house and … Hence "proportionate" is in the law.Well if somebody enters my house and is armed with a knife, it's game over for me, the last thing I would do is get a knife of my own, that ends in either me being murdered or me having to take a life; something I couldn't do very easily. I would just stand back and they can take my items; it's not worth killing for either way. If on the other hand they were intent on killing me, I would be forced to actively defend myself.Alternatively, if somebody does enter my property and is unarmed then I would be happy to ask them to leave with my 4D maglite. Thankfully I have a very secure property, so the chances are low. I know somebody who lives just a few doors down from where this actually happened and must have been past the house 100s of times (enough to have known where it was when I saw the photograph) - it's not the sort of area I would be breaking and entering if I had a choice.



    must agree there.

    Banned

    t0mm;4645725

    this is the same as a shopkeeper how? if their shop is broken into … this is the same as a shopkeeper how? if their shop is broken into yes.same as a house, you're saying if someone breaks in you'll say 'bad boy.. heres a cuppa'?



    no im saying i would use whatever force ness, as we dont know the full story i think it unfair to say that a thief deserves to be stabbed to death, so if i forgot to lock my back door and left it ajar it wouldnt then be right to kill someone if they entered? someones property is someones property, im sure the shop keeper values his as much as i value mine

    well my 2ps worth, if someone breaks into my house, im taking him out. hard way, easy way, any goddamn way i have to, to protect my self, family, home, peace of life.

    shanecr;4645780

    well my 2ps worth, if someone breaks into my house, im taking him out. … well my 2ps worth, if someone breaks into my house, im taking him out. hard way, easy way, any goddamn way i have to, to protect my self, family, home, peace of life.



    totally agree-the ops story has more to it than meets the eye methinks and is different but if anyone broke into my home I would have no interest in "proportionate" force-I would knock them unconscious with whatever implement came to hand and worry about the consequences later-thats if the dogs didnt get them first!

    If anyone broke in to my house in all seriousness i would shout "BRING OUT THE GIMP". They would soon be back over the back wall.

    What's the connection between this single incident (details not yet clear) and the question, "Is this how bad this country is?"

    Are you practising to be a Daily Mail hack or summat t0mm...?

    odriscoll;4645836

    If anyone broke in to my house in all seriousness i would shout "BRING … If anyone broke in to my house in all seriousness i would shout "BRING OUT THE GIMP". They would soon be back over the back wall.



    Awesome idea :w00t:

    If someone uses unreasonable force to enter my home, then surely I have the right to use reasonable force to get him out! The do-gooders can use all their reasoning techinques, but they'll probably get robbed, or worse, anyway. The only reason why we need to use force is for protecting our family, selves and processions (in that order). Using meat cleavers and guns is a step too far in my opinion, but then I have never been in situations like the people mentioned here.

    jonnyq;4646116

    and don't call me shirley



    Sorry, I wonder why I keep doing that Wanda?

    odriscoll;4645653

    Defending your own property is the right thing to do and i would have … Defending your own property is the right thing to do and i would have done the same in that situation, which is the reason i keep a machete next to my bed. STAB SLASH KIIIIIIIIIILL


    I HAVE A PMT AJUSTABLE WIFE JUST SET AND PRESS GO

    sassie;4645719

    shall we go down the same route for shopkeepers who lose out on stock via … shall we go down the same route for shopkeepers who lose out on stock via kids knicking sweets, protecting ones property is fine and should be done within reason


    I LUB YOU,YOU SENSABLE SLAP ROUND THE LUG HOLE SORTS US BLOKES OUT AND KEEPS US ALL INLINE

    Banned

    raptorcigs;4646388

    I LUB YOU,YOU SENSABLE SLAP ROUND THE LUG HOLE SORTS US BLOKES OUT AND … I LUB YOU,YOU SENSABLE SLAP ROUND THE LUG HOLE SORTS US BLOKES OUT AND KEEPS US ALL INLINE



    well saying i have right to kill someone cause they had the nerve to try and nick from me is pathetic, yes by all means protect your familes from being stabbed, shot, murdered in your own beds, but most burgulars dont carry knifes, shotguns, etc,etc, you wanna really protect your homes/loved ones buy a bloody house alarm that way your loved ones will have a loved one to come home to

    sassie;4646415

    well saying i have right to kill someone cause they had the nerve to try … well saying i have right to kill someone cause they had the nerve to try and nick from me is pathetic, yes by all means protect your familes from being stabbed, shot, murdered in your own beds, but most burgulars dont carry knifes, shotguns, etc,etc, you wanna really protect your homes/loved ones buy a bloody house alarm that way your loved ones will have a loved one to come home to



    Exactly, it's all OK playing the tough man card but realistically, 99% of the time, that is the worst thing to do. I guess people don't consider that they are potentially going to make their children fatherless/motherless for the sake of a few pounds worth of items that would be covered by insurance anyway.

    What's wrong with killing someone for breaking into your house? These guys could well kill you, if not during the initial incident, then later on, perhaps after they've served some jail time. They know where you live, remember. You know the entitlement/blame mentality these people have. If they go down, it's they consider it your fault. Do you really want to risk a burning rag laced with petrol being dropped through your letterbox?

    I don't. I value my freedom. No-one has the right to break into my house and steal my personal posessions, particularly my high-value posessions like my guitars and my laptops, which are as personal to me as a photo album or a diary. If people think they're entitled to steal what I've spent years working towards accumulating and creating, and if people think they're entitled to totally intrude on my privacy, and then to subsequently make my life a hell of police, court, insurance, starting over, and missing all the things I've lost that I can never get back, that's a pretty hefty amount of take on their part, and rather a large insult to me. All things considered, I think a crowbar to the neck would most definitely be reasonable force. Given the government's policy of going to war and killing people for our freedom, I find it mighty hypocritical that we can't legally kill people ourselves for our freedom.

    Banned

    dxx the only reponse possible to your post is, those that value life dont take the lives of others will nilly, i am not talking about someone coming into your home with a shotgun, im talking possibly an unarmed teenager breaking in to nick a few quid, you think they deserve to die for maybe the way theyve been brought up, think sometimes the bigger picture needs looking at before we decide its ok to take someone life, stabbing someone through sheer fear is totally different to taking someones life just because you can

    Original Poster

    tinkerbell28;4646649

    That I agree with, I am all for protecting the home but you are allowed … That I agree with, I am all for protecting the home but you are allowed to do so within the law using reasonable force.Stabbing an unarmed fleeing teenager because they broke into your home, and using that as justifiaction, it's murder and rightly so. It's not reasonable force. That's just an example but you get the idea......



    please quote where it says they were unarmed.

    and i thought i was the one twisting the story....:thinking:

    Banned

    t0mm;4646753

    please quote where it says they were unarmed.and i thought i was the one … please quote where it says they were unarmed.and i thought i was the one twisting the story....:thinking:



    think the thread has progessed away from just one story :thumbsup:

    sassie;4646597

    im talking possibly an unarmed teenager breaking in to nick a few quid,


    Don't care, if he didn't ring the doorbell and get invited in then he's fair game.
    My home is the last place that I have that I can feel even a semblance of security in. Having been burgled previously I can say that life for a long while afterwards felt like I'd imagine solitary to be. Unless you have suffered in this way you would, perhaps, not know the utter feeling of devastation and loss of self worth that can follow.
    The most precious thing in my life is my family, I'm not going to conduct a 10 minute Q & A with a burglar in order to determine his history and intentions. The risk would be simply too great. An unconscious intruder is not going to harm my family but a conscious one might.
    It would be great if it could be made known that any householder had the right to use any force at all when encountering a trespasser. Might cut down the incidence of burglary somewhat.

    andythebrave;4648814

    Don't care, if he didn't ring the doorbell and get invited in then he's … Don't care, if he didn't ring the doorbell and get invited in then he's fair game.My home is the last place that I have that I can feel even a semblance of security in. Having been burgled previously I can say that life for a long while afterwards felt like I'd imagine solitary to be. Unless you have suffered in this way you would, perhaps, not know the utter feeling of devastation and loss of self worth that can follow.The most precious thing in my life is my family, I'm not going to conduct a 10 minute Q & A with a burglar in order to determine his history and intentions. The risk would be simply too great. An unconscious intruder is not going to harm my family but a conscious one might.It would be great if it could be made known that any householder had the right to use any force at all when encountering a trespasser. Might cut down the incidence of burglary somewhat.



    No, it would just mean more were conducted with the person armed.

    dxx;4646569

    What's wrong with killing someone for breaking into your house? These … What's wrong with killing someone for breaking into your house? These guys could well kill you, if not during the initial incident, then later on, perhaps after they've served some jail time. They know where you live, remember. You know the entitlement/blame mentality these people have. If they go down, it's they consider it your fault. Do you really want to risk a burning rag laced with petrol being dropped through your letterbox? I don't. I value my freedom. No-one has the right to break into my house and steal my personal posessions, particularly my high-value posessions like my guitars and my laptops, which are as personal to me as a photo album or a diary. If people think they're entitled to steal what I've spent years working towards accumulating and creating, and if people think they're entitled to totally intrude on my privacy, and then to subsequently make my life a hell of police, court, insurance, starting over, and missing all the things I've lost that I can never get back, that's a pretty hefty amount of take on their part, and rather a large insult to me. All things considered, I think a crowbar to the neck would most definitely be reasonable force. Given the government's policy of going to war and killing people for our freedom, I find it mighty hypocritical that we can't legally kill people ourselves for our freedom.



    +100.

    Those s.o.bs eliminated their human rights the second they decided to screw over one of us - Why should they be shown remorse when they won't do the same?
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