Groups

    Islam4UK Banned

    Seems a sensible decision to me

    Please keep discussion good natured,on topic and avoid any personal insults

    Thanks

    151 Comments

    Banned

    Good news indeed, But why is it one rule for them and another rule for others i.e. BNP

    It's a shame you had your thread locked yesterday, you could have just added it to there.

    Should get some fresh arguments in this thread though.

    Banned

    under counter terrorism laws just seen it on the news......added to your original discussion

    lets see how this pans out........another thread

    I find many of their views offensive but I'm not sure they deserve a ban. I suspect this is more to do with pleasing the electorate rather than counter-terrorism

    Banned

    gari189;7513920

    I find many of their views offensive but I'm not sure they deserve a ban. … I find many of their views offensive but I'm not sure they deserve a ban. I suspect this is more to do with pleasing the electorate rather than counter-terrorism



    Seems to work for some.

    I'm sure now they're banned everything will be fine.:-D

    Banned

    gari189;7513920

    I find many of their views offensive but I'm not sure they deserve a ban. … I find many of their views offensive but I'm not sure they deserve a ban. I suspect this is more to do with pleasing the electorate rather than counter-terrorism




    would you like to elaborate on this statement...... what do they bring to the table other than inciting racial predjudice/hatred?

    Subscribing for when DarkKnight appears with epic quotes.

    casparwhite;7513938

    would you like to elaborate on this statement...... what do they bring to … would you like to elaborate on this statement...... what do they bring to the table other than inciting racial predjudice/hatred?



    Indeed but you can say the same about the BNP but they are not banned

    tinkerbell28;7514002

    :lol:Yeah they said they were going to ban the group and have, … :lol:Yeah they said they were going to ban the group and have, good:thumbsup:


    But they'll probably be replaced by another group. If a political group stays within the law then why should they be banned?

    I find fox hunting with dogs offensive - does that mean David Cameron should be banned? I'm still certain this is more to do with it being a vote winner and the elections being just around the corner....

    BTW if I begin to sound like DK please shoot me

    Banned

    gari189;7514021

    But they'll probably be replaced by another group. If a political group … But they'll probably be replaced by another group. If a political group stays within the law then why should they be banned? I find fox hunting with dogs offensive - does that mean David Cameron should be banned?BTW if I begin to sound like DK please shoot me



    You just sound like someone who realises burying your head in the sand does nothing but make you look silly.

    Banned

    gari189;7513989

    Indeed but you can say the same about the BNP but they are not banned



    please digress
    gari189;7514021

    But they'll probably be replaced by another group. If a political group … But they'll probably be replaced by another group. If a political group stays within the law then why should they be banned? I find fox hunting with dogs offensive - does that mean David Cameron should be banned?BTW if I begin to sound like DK please shoot me



    al-Muhajiroun is the original group to be banned and any subsequent groups/offshoots will also be banned......

    have you actually read anything other than the headlines?

    take it youve never been hunting either or been brought up in the country

    Banned

    casparwhite;7514037

    please digressal-Muhajiroun is the original group to be banned and any … please digressal-Muhajiroun is the original group to be banned and any subsequent groups/offshoots will also be banned......have you actually read anything other than the headlines?



    Doesn't that just show that the ideology will always find an outlet and banning different groups does nothing at all. It's a case of dealing with symptoms and not the causes. Talk about urinating in the wind.

    I also find it hard to take any group seriously who uses '4' in place of 'for'.

    Makes it sound like a discount bathroom dealer in Cheshire.

    Banned

    FilthAndFurry;7514056

    Doesn't that just show that the ideology will always find an outlet and … Doesn't that just show that the ideology will always find an outlet and banning different groups does nothing at all. It's a case of dealing with symptoms and not the causes. Talk about urinating in the wind.I also find it hard to take any group seriously who uses '4' in place of 'for'.Makes it sound like a discount bathroom dealer in Cheshire.



    yeah to a certain degree but now members of this group can now be held under terrorism laws and be jailed for upto 10 years.........

    what do "radical" muslims bring other than bad times?

    Banned

    tinkerbell28;7514070

    Indeed but some of the quotes, etc that this group have been coming out … Indeed but some of the quotes, etc that this group have been coming out with are of the extreme nature, you only have to see them that had the meagre sentences yesterday for the luton protests, they wore their conviction as a badge of honour, and one protester again linked to this group carried a sign, I quote "Islam will dominate the world, freedom can go to hell".All crazy, extreme people and they have been seen for what they are extremists, who are in support of terrorism, glad they have been banned, and that's my opinion really, where it starts and ends.



    What does banning actually do?

    It's a very unintelligent way of dealing with any issue.

    Banned

    FilthAndFurry;7514075

    What does banning actually do?It's a very unintelligent way of dealing … What does banning actually do?It's a very unintelligent way of dealing with any issue.



    see above post:thumbsup:


    so u think this group is acting in an intelligent way?

    they dont represent the mainstream muslims in the slightest

    Syzable;7513986

    Subscribing for when DarkKnight appears with epic quotes.



    :lol:

    Banned

    casparwhite;7514071

    yeah to a certain degree but now members of this group can now be held … yeah to a certain degree but now members of this group can now be held under terrorism laws and be jailed for upto 10 years......... what do "radical" muslims bring other than bad times?



    And then you make martyrs of them, and turn them into minor celebs. Great.

    We should be looking at why they are radicalised and what their grievances actually are rather than locking them up on trumped up charges.

    Banned

    tinkerbell28;7514102

    Shame I disagree, nevermind, moving on f&f, above post as casper pointed … Shame I disagree, nevermind, moving on f&f, above post as casper pointed out^^^^^^



    I think that's endemic of everything that's wrong in this country. We used to be a 'great' nation of ideas and respect for education.

    Banned

    FilthAndFurry;7514089

    And then you make martyrs of them, and turn them into minor celebs. … And then you make martyrs of them, and turn them into minor celebs. Great.We should be looking at why they are radicalised and what their grievances actually are rather than locking them up on trumped up charges.



    yeah tell that to the thousands dead ..............,..they can not act in a civilized way and put their points across properly

    they have been let into this country now they should integrate......these groups are wanting to turn the country into the war torn states they have fled from

    casparwhite;7514071

    yeah to a certain degree but now members of this group can now be held … yeah to a certain degree but now members of this group can now be held under terrorism laws and be jailed for upto 10 years......... what do "radical" muslims bring other than bad times?



    its a shame we're all blinkered by the press....i agree the islam4uk has no place in this world...but parties/people like the bnp have similar views but are portrayed differently in the media...thus giving us a different perspective of them!

    the media plays a big part in our mentality...for example if young muslim man went on a shooting spree headlines would read something like "Islamic terrorist" or "Islamic Fundamentalist" etc... But if young white christian male did something similar we would get headlines like "Mentally unstable" or "Man goes on shooting spree"

    Original Poster

    casparwhite;7514114

    yeah tell that to the thousands dead ..............,..they can not act in … yeah tell that to the thousands dead ..............,..they can not act in a civilized way and put their points across properlythey have been let into this country now they should integrate......these groups are wanting to turn the country into the war torn states they have fled from



    rep given:thumbsup:

    Banned

    casparwhite;7514114

    yeah tell that to the thousands dead ..............,..they can not act in … yeah tell that to the thousands dead ..............,..they can not act in a civilized way and put their points across properlythey have been let into this country now they should integrate......these groups are wanting to turn the country into the war torn states they have fled from



    As far as I am aware, nobody in this group has murdered anyone.

    If they are found to have done, or financially supported groups who have then they should have the full weight of the law borne down upon them like a mighty hammer of the gods.

    I also think it's simplistic to assume they are all immigrants - Choudery was certainly born and bred in this country and the naive act of distancing by suggesting they are foreigners we can get rid of is another way of burying one's head in the sand.

    Banned

    Abz;7514121

    its a shame we're all blinkered by the press....i agree the islam4uk has … its a shame we're all blinkered by the press....i agree the islam4uk has no place in this world...but parties/people like the bnp have similar views but are portrayed differently in the media...thus giving us a different perspective of them!the media plays a big part in our mentality...for example if young muslim man went on a shooting spree headlines would read something like "Islamic terrorist" or "Islamic Fundamentalist" etc... But if young white christian male did something similar we would get headlines like "Mentally unstable" or "Man goes on shooting spree"



    these blanket statements comparing the BNP with these radical muslims groups are totally unfounded

    Why not ban all the other White Supremacist Neo-Nazi organizations? A group wants to march through a town being anti-war, they get banned. You march through a town being pro-war you're deemed good.

    Truly a wonderful country.:roll:

    Modern Britain, racist and hypocritical. It's turning into America every passing day and no that's not a good thing.

    Banned

    FilthAndFurry;7514136

    As far as I am aware, nobody in this group has murdered anyone.If they … As far as I am aware, nobody in this group has murdered anyone.If they are found to have done, or financially supported groups who have then they should have the full weight of the law borne down upon them like a mighty hammer of the gods.I also think it's simplistic to assume they are all immigrants - Choudery was certainly born and bred in this country and the naive act of distancing by suggesting they are foreigners we can get rid of is another way of burying one's head in the sand.



    the al-Muhajiroun endorses suicide bombings and extremism

    work it out:roll: its not that difficult is it?

    Why not also ban the EDL, BNP etc.

    Banned

    MarzBarz;7514171

    Why not also ban the EDL, BNP etc.



    do they endorse and encourage suicide bombings?

    comparisons please not blanket statements

    MarzBarz;7514171

    Why not also ban the EDL, BNP etc.



    They are white.

    Banned

    casparwhite;7514162

    the al-Muhajiroun endorses suicide bombings and extremismwork it … the al-Muhajiroun endorses suicide bombings and extremismwork it out:roll: its not that difficult is it?



    So should we ban all groups who have medieval/disgusting views?

    Because that's a subjective road to take and very controversial.

    Banned

    FilthAndFurry;7514201

    So should we ban all groups who have medieval/disgusting views?Because … So should we ban all groups who have medieval/disgusting views?Because that's a subjective road to take and very controversial.



    any group who publicly comes out and encourages people to kill others should be banned yes

    FilthAndFurry;7514201

    So should we ban all groups who have medieval/disgusting views?Because … So should we ban all groups who have medieval/disgusting views?Because that's a subjective road to take and very controversial.



    +1

    Banned

    casparwhite;7514208

    any group who publicly comes out and encourages people to kill others … any group who publicly comes out and encourages people to kill others should be banned yes



    So what about religious groups who believe transfusions are 'wrong' and would risk the life or young children because of these beliefs?

    That is 'encouraging people to kill others' in the law's view (manslaughter).

    Banned

    FilthAndFurry;7514226

    So what about religious groups who believe transfusions are 'wrong' and … So what about religious groups who believe transfusions are 'wrong' and would risk the life or young children because of these beliefs?That is 'encouraging people to kill others' in the law's view (manslaughter).



    so you think that is a comparison?

    are you in your right mind

    there you go thats justification for 1000's of innocent people to be killed for no reason right there

    casparwhite;7514179

    do they endorse and encourage suicide bombings?comparisons please not … do they endorse and encourage suicide bombings?comparisons please not blanket statements



    But they endorse other things

    Let me ask you one Question mate, How did you find out about Al Qaeda? The BBC news?

    Banned

    casparwhite;7514243

    so you think that is a comparison? are you in your right mindthere you go … so you think that is a comparison? are you in your right mindthere you go thats justification for 1000's of innocent people to be killed for no reason right there



    I think both groups have medieval, despicable views.

    We're talking about the subjective view of groups and whether that is a fair basis for banning them.

    It's a perfectly fine point.

    About time too.... Very good news...

    Banned

    casparwhite;7514287

    ive answered the same point you raised in my other post to the same … ive answered the same point you raised in my other post to the same questionreword it as many times as you like:thumbsup:



    But do you think it is a dangerous precedent to set, where we say that we disagree with a group's ideology so we seek to outlaw it.

    Banned

    tinkerbell28;7514289

    It's not a valid comparison, as it's your human right to refuse any … It's not a valid comparison, as it's your human right to refuse any medical treatment, HOWEVER in the case of a child a dr can overide a parents wishes if it's not in the interests of the child, a court will back them. So not a comparison at all or a valid point.



    The point is not the example in and of itself, but the subjective view of such ideology and whether that is enough to ban said group.

    I can't make it any clearer than that I'm afraid.

    casparwhite;7514243

    so you think that is a comparison? are you in your right mindthere you go … so you think that is a comparison? are you in your right mindthere you go thats justification for 1000's of innocent people to be killed for no reason right there



    what do you think the people of gaza would say to that???
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