Israeli–Palestinian conflict - Let's try to keep it clean and polite people

525 replies
Found 24th Jul 2014
There has been lots of discussion in multiple threads about this, so let's have a dedicated one. Let's see if this can be discussed in a civilized way!

I'll get the ball rolling:

525 Comments

Original Poster

What should Israel do?

what do you think they should do

This thread will escalate and ultimately be removed because we have both Hamas and Israel sympathisers here who will stand by their faction regardless of what anyone tells them, become defensive and get vicious with other members.

Ideologically, I stand with Israel, but this conflict has progressed far beyond the basic incompatibilities between Islam and the West.

Regardless of these ideological differences, of Hamas human rights atrocities and of Israel's heavy-handedness, the killing of civilians must stop. The bombing of schools must stop. The use of civilians as shields and as tools to put international pressure on Israel must stop. Israel's emerging arrogance must also stop.


Edited by: "josephmccowie" 24th Jul 2014

Jaybear88 I see from your first post where u want this thread to go.

crush Hamas until there are no angry young men left to fire rockets at them

I think its gone on long enough and should be tried under war crimes and sentenced. Without going in to too much detail about right and wrong, they need to pack it in and stop the killing. Surely, they can't get away with blatant torture and murder???? This isn't about religion its about killing innocent people who haven't done anything apart from living in a country that Israel want ownership of.

Original Poster

To be upfront, this is a thread for a few people to vent on that seem to have very strong opinions.

IMO I want to say Israel are the primary aggressor (I need to read more into the first shots fired), but is now in a very difficult position. If they stop firing, Hamas will keep going and many Israeli civilians will die, but if they keep going many more of the Palestinian people will die and the worlds hand will be forced. If Hamas stop, Israel will stop, but probably continue encroaching on their land.

Changed your tune....have we.

Original Poster

Tinker123

Jaybear88 I see from your first post where u want this thread to go.


Where I want this thread to go is either an open debate without the assumption that it's black and white, or somewhere that josephmccowie's prediction can come true - but will spare other threads during it's course. Out of curiosity, where did you think I wanted it to go?
josephmccowie

This thread will escalate and ultimately be removed because we have both … This thread will escalate and ultimately be removed because we have both Hamas and Israel sympathisers here who will stand by their faction regardless of what anyone tells them, become defensive and get vicious with other members.

Original Poster

Tinker123

Changed your tune....have we.



Have I?

Going to have to be a little less cryptic lol

So jaybear what would you do then

Palestinians have the right to defend themselves the same as Isrealis...It is a basic human right, although it seems to be difficult for people to accept that Palestinians have this right also
Edited by: "treble99" 24th Jul 2014

Original Poster

archer1204

So jaybear what would you do then



If I had a solution, I'd be a more vocal critic of Israel - until I hear something sensible, I'll have to settle for grumbling.

jaybear88

If I had a solution, I'd be a more vocal critic of Israel - until I hear … If I had a solution, I'd be a more vocal critic of Israel - until I hear something sensible, I'll have to settle for grumbling.


You must have some idea so bring it to the table

Maybe the Palestinians should start purchasing lands and making illegal settlements in blighty. Once done they can claim it as their country.

jaybear88

To be upfront, this is a thread for a few people to vent on that seem to … To be upfront, this is a thread for a few people to vent on that seem to have very strong opinions.IMO I want to say Israel are the primary aggressor (I need to read more into the first shots fired), but is now in a very difficult position. If they stop firing, Hamas will keep going and many Israeli civilians will die, but if they keep going many more of the Palestinian people will die and the worlds hand will be forced. If Hamas stop, Israel will stop, but probably continue encroaching on their land.



I agree with the second part of what you say but believe that the origin of this war lies many years ago and,as is the case with all conflict, is very difficult to unravel. I would like to see both sides accept that' we are where we are', keep the land they hold and stop bombing each other.

Hamas stop, Israel will stop, but probably continue encroaching on their land. [/quote]

jaybear88

To be upfront, this is a thread for a few people to vent on that seem to … To be upfront, this is a thread for a few people to vent on that seem to have very strong opinions.IMO I want to say Israel are the primary aggressor (I need to read more into the first shots fired), but is now in a very difficult position. If they stop firing, Hamas will keep going and many Israeli civilians will die, but if they keep going many more of the Palestinian people will die and the worlds hand will be forced. If Hamas stop, Israel will stop, but probably continue encroaching on their land.



Based on todays statements by Hamas and Israel, this is simply not true. Hamas have asked for a cease fire with immediate effect (and said that they would comply with it), Israel have said they don't care how many people die, they will continue.

What else has to happen before someone steps in to stop all of these innocent people (on both sides) from dying in the most appalling way?

Put all weapon away. Measure the land then split it into two equally. Palestinian can choose which side they want first.

Original Poster

archer1204

You must have some idea so bring it to the table



Susannah has made as close to a solution as I can think of, but I'd say Israel would need to move it's borders back. To where? With a very limited knowledge, probably back to the green line for starters and then talks would need to be initiated to discuss adjustments. If both sides agreed to it back then, why isn't an acceptable place to start now? But even if all this happened, it wouldn't stop anything.

What's your thoughts?

Whether its ideas, laws or a piece of land, its always going to be difficult sharing with religious people.

Cant see either side wanting less than 100%. Thats just how those types of people are.

Original Poster


Mermoo

Hamas stop, Israel will stop, but probably continue encroaching on their … Hamas stop, Israel will stop, but probably continue encroaching on their land.

jaybear88

To be upfront, this is a thread for a few people to vent on that seem to … To be upfront, this is a thread for a few people to vent on that seem to have very strong opinions.IMO I want to say Israel are the primary aggressor (I need to read more into the first shots fired), but is now in a very difficult position. If they stop firing, Hamas will keep going and many Israeli civilians will die, but if they keep going many more of the Palestinian people will die and the worlds hand will be forced. If Hamas stop, Israel will stop, but probably continue encroaching on their land.



Based on todays statements by Hamas and Israel, this is simply not true. Hamas have asked for a cease fire with immediate effect (and said that they would comply with it), Israel have said they don't care how many people die, they will continue.

What else has to happen before someone steps in to stop all of these innocent people (on both sides) from dying in the most appalling way?[/quote]

Last I'd heard, it was Hamas that was rejecting the ceasefires, can you link me to the counter story?
Edited by: "jaybear88" 24th Jul 2014

jaybear88

Susannah has made as close to a solution as I can think of, but I'd say … Susannah has made as close to a solution as I can think of, but I'd say Israel would need to move it's borders back. To where? With a very limited knowledge, probably back to the green line for starters and then talks would need to be initiated to discuss adjustments. If both sides agreed to it back then, why isn't an acceptable place to start now? But even if all this happened, it wouldn't stop anything. What's your thoughts?


Thats a good start but what else do you think could be done to solve this

Gaza crisis: UN claims Israel did not allow evacuation from shelter before strikes

gu.com/p/4…7m6

This conflict will never stop unless one side is wiped out or outside forces intervene. Unfortunately it is solely the result of outside forces intervening as to why this conflict exists.

It will only end one way.
Edited by: "RossD89" 24th Jul 2014

Hamas wants a ceasefire on fair terms.

archer1204

Thats a good start but what else do you think could be done to solve this


archer we could send you in as a mediator?
do you have any suggestions yourself or just going to repeatedly ask jay?

Original Poster

archer1204

Thats a good start but what else do you think could be done to solve this



What exactly are you looking for here? I have stated multiple times that I do not have a fix-all solution. Would you like to have a little input?

RossD89

This conflict will never stop unless one side is wiped out or outside … This conflict will never stop unless one side is wiped out or outside forces intervene. Unfortunately it is solely the result of outside forces as to why this conflict exists. It will only end one way.



Palestine was carved up and the Jewish population who survived after ww2 were given land. Mess solely lies with the UN and also Britain who had no right to do so.

Original Poster

EN1GMA

Hamas wants a ceasefire on fair terms.



Hamas and Israel both want a ceasefire on their terms (_;)

EN1GMA

Palestine was carved up and the Jewish population who survived after ww2 … Palestine was carved up and the Jewish population who survived after ww2 were given land. Mess solely lies with the UN and also Britain who had no right to do so.



That was what I was alluding to...

Mermoo

Hamas stop, Israel will stop, but probably continue encroaching on their … Hamas stop, Israel will stop, but probably continue encroaching on their land.

jaybear88

To be upfront, this is a thread for a few people to vent on that seem to … To be upfront, this is a thread for a few people to vent on that seem to have very strong opinions.IMO I want to say Israel are the primary aggressor (I need to read more into the first shots fired), but is now in a very difficult position. If they stop firing, Hamas will keep going and many Israeli civilians will die, but if they keep going many more of the Palestinian people will die and the worlds hand will be forced. If Hamas stop, Israel will stop, but probably continue encroaching on their land.



Last I'd heard, it was Hamas that was rejecting the ceasefires, can you link me to the counter story?
[/quote]

BBC Radio 4, 9pm news today (sorry, no internet link)

jaybear88

Hamas and Israel both want a ceasefire on their terms (_;)



Well done for starting the thread jaybear.

Personally, I think Israel should withdraw entirely from the West Bank.

The Palestinians should then just get on with it.

But too much blood has been split (mainly Palestinian)...so not too optimistic.
Edited by: "komakino" 24th Jul 2014

EN1GMA

Palestine was carved up and the Jewish population who survived after ww2 … Palestine was carved up and the Jewish population who survived after ww2 were given land. Mess solely lies with the UN and also Britain who had no right to do so.



Yup. But we can't turn the clock back and the Palestinians have to accept that, IMO.

Hard to do, I know - a disproportionate number of Palestinians have died.

UN condemns shelling of UNRWA school, saying it asked IDF for time to evacuate civilians, which was not given 

Pin. Point. Precision. IDF

komakino

Yup. But we can't turn the clock back and the Palestinians have to accept … Yup. But we can't turn the clock back and the Palestinians have to accept that, IMO.Hard to do, I know - a disproportionate number of Palestinians have died.



There is a difference between turning back the clock and fighting for what you believe to be yours.

If somebody came in to your home and told you that your living room was now his, would you accept it?

Just like apartheid south Africa and nazi Germany, there will be a tipping point for Israel.

It's worth noting how small Israel is compared to it's bordering countries, who mostly want to annihilate Israel. Who can blame them for having to be overly protective at times.... If Israel was to lower it's guard what do you think would happen? Lets not be under any naive illusion here, they would all be slaughtered with absolutely no mercy shown so put yourself in their shoes eh..
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east_and_asia/israel_nbr90.jpg

I think the Palestinians are banging their heads in regret for supporting Hamas. In a way they've been played with Israel and Hamas. Both are to blame, as both are not truthful to their people. Corruption is all we ever see.

Don't buy into other peoples crap. It will and most likely mislead you, also turn you against your own. It's not pretty, and you should not be a sheep. I know what majority here are thinking though, saying it's not their problem.

CookinBat

It's worth noting how small Israel is compared to it's bordering … It's worth noting how small Israel is compared to it's bordering countries, who mostly want to annihilate Israel. Who can blame them for having to be overly protective at times.... If Israel was to lower it's guard what do you think would happen? Lets not be under any naive illusion here, they would all be slaughtered with absolutely no mercy shown so put yourself in their shoes eh..



You don't need to carry out airstrikes on civilians or bomb hospitals to show that you have a military presence.
Edited by: "RossD89" 24th Jul 2014

RossD89

There is a difference between turning back the clock and fighting for … There is a difference between turning back the clock and fighting for what you believe to be yours.If somebody came in to your home and told you that your living room was now his, would you accept it?



Nope. And I've used similar analogies in discussions before.

Just looking for a practical solution - which will inevitably mean that neither party gets everything they want.

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