John Lewis 5 year tv warranty problems

53
Found 21st Jul 2016
I recently bought a Sony 55" tv from JL in clearance section of store. It was missing stand and box but apart from that was perfect. I managed to barter store down to £450 from full retail of £700.

Even though it was in clearance receipt still states covered by 5 year guarantee.

Within a few weeks a fault appeared on screen and after a couple of engineer visits it has been determined screen is faulty and cant be repaired.

I have therefore asked for a replacement however JL position is that because it was discounted they only need to give me £450 towards a new one and not simply replace with the same model.

There does not appear to be any t&c on JL website for the much lauded warranty they provide - however the website does state in black and white

"What's the small print?
We're covering the product to remain in working order for the life of that guarantee – in other words against manufacturing defect causing breakdown. If the product's used in the prescribed way and it breaks down, our duty is to get the appliance back to working order – and if we can't do that, we'll replace it with the same model, or discuss an alternative with you if that's no longer available."

In my opinion they cant fix so as their warranty small print states they should replace with the same model as it is available.

Anyone any thoughts or experience?
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53 Comments
Are you for real? They've offered a full refund. If they offered £700, then you can see what would happen to all their clearance TVs (snapped up and all developing faults that arent repairable!)
Edited by: "chocci" 21st Jul 2016
Good luck arguing that. The set you bought was shop soiled i.e. used and abused and probably repaired by some halfwit with a plumbers iron. Unboxed stock just isn't the same as new boxed items and if they don't have another unboxed similarly spec'd ( abused ) TV then you're out of luck.
Original Poster
I havnt asked for £700 refund i just want the same telly but working - i didnt buy it from clearance knowing it had a damaged screen it was sold as just missing stand.

Yes set i bought was clearance and i take your point but then they shouldnt offer warranties with clearance items - they gave warranty but now dont want to honour it.
You want a brand new replacement model that retails for £700 but only wanna pay £450 even when you were well aware when you purchased the "open box" model that it was probably more likely to develop a fault than a brand new identical model. Some people really do take the **** at times.

It's down to interpretation. Same model to them would mean same condition to as when you originally bought it. So in this case you still wouldnt get a stand and it would have to be an open box model which they probably don't have or have extreme low numbers of scattered across their stores.

Your interpretation would be exact model as it says on the unit itself. I think knowingly when you originally purchased this open box tv, you knew in the back of your mind that you could fall back on this warranty if said tv did develop an issue and it played a part in your agreement to go ahead with such a decent deal. Its clearly an obvious thought when anyone considers buying an open box product especially one that costs hundreds of pounds.
Edited by: "dixin123" 21st Jul 2016
It's a like for like warranty so they've offered £450 (which you paid) towards the cost of another TV, they won't give you a £700 brand new one as a replacement for a £450 clearance item.

As said above, good luck arguing that one
Original Poster
Why is this taking the ****? The tv was sold to me as only missing stand NOT as having faulty screen. As i said earlier JL should simply not give 5 year warranty with clearance items its that simple.
Original Poster
bobdylan

It's a like for like warranty so they've offered £450 (which you paid) … It's a like for like warranty so they've offered £450 (which you paid) towards the cost of another TV, they won't give you a £700 brand new one as a replacement for a £450 clearance item.As said above, good luck arguing that one



Exactly like for like being same tv for same or similar spec tv - lets say you bought a tv new boxed etc on an offer and the following week it broke the tv had now gone back up in price by £100 - JL had the tvs in stock, under the warranty you would expect the tv to be replaced for a new one of same model?
I imagine the argument it that the do not have the same model/spec as the one you purchased so the best they can offer you is your money back. When I mention model/spec im also including within that about its clearance model with missing stand. I would not expect them to replace with a brand new model as its not what you purchased. If they have a brnad new version of your TV then you may be able to as for them just to swap over tv ex stand (again its a small may be)
Original Poster
dixin123

You want a brand new replacement model that retails for £700 but only … You want a brand new replacement model that retails for £700 but only wanna pay £450 even when you were well aware when you purchased the "open box" model that it was probably more likely to develop a fault than a brand new identical model. Some people really do take the **** at times.It's down to interpretation. Same model to them would mean same condition to as when you originally bought it. So in this case you still wouldnt get a stand and it would have to be an open box model which they probably don't have or have extreme low numbers of scattered across their stores.Your interpretation would be exact model as it says on the unit itself. I think knowingly when you originally purchased this open box tv, you knew in the back of your mind that you could fall back on this warranty if said tv did develop an issue and it played a part in your agreement to go ahead with such a decent deal. Its clearly an obvious thought when anyone considers buying an open box product especially one that costs hundreds of pounds.



Exactly i was prepared to take the risk because JL offer a 5 year no quibble warranty - i am happy for them to give me an unboxed tv with no stand.

At the end of the day they shouldnt offer warranty on clearance if they dont want to honour it.
mathew1971

Exactly like for like being same tv for same or similar spec tv - lets … Exactly like for like being same tv for same or similar spec tv - lets say you bought a tv new boxed etc on an offer and the following week it broke the tv had now gone back up in price by £100 - JL had the tvs in stock, under the warranty you would expect the tv to be replaced for a new one of same model?


As ch7leach pointed out, you didnt buy a NEW TV, so they probably havent got an exact replacement.
mathew1971

Why is this taking the ****? The tv was sold to me as only missing stand … Why is this taking the ****? The tv was sold to me as only missing stand NOT as having faulty screen. As i said earlier JL should simply not give 5 year warranty with clearance items its that simple.



Have JL offer you a full refund in £450 cash/card refund or £450 in JL credit vouchers??

Its taking the **** because you want them to replace the tv with an identical model which they dont have. They dont have that model missing a box and stand which was sooo obviously a floor display model hence the price reduction they were able to offer you at the time of sale. Can you suggest a reason why they would randomly have a tv without its box or stand other than it being a floor model. Its the most logical reason.

As they dont have a replacement model for you, the appropriate thing was them to offer you a refund which they have.

You dont lose out financially as you get your money back? So why exactly are you asking for more??

Would you expect JL to replace an item sold as refurbished that develops a fault with a brand new identical model?
mathew1971

Exactly like for like being same tv for same or similar spec tv - lets … Exactly like for like being same tv for same or similar spec tv - lets say you bought a tv new boxed etc on an offer and the following week it broke the tv had now gone back up in price by £100 - JL had the tvs in stock, under the warranty you would expect the tv to be replaced for a new one of same model?



Basically they would offer you like for like, in other words, a clearance one to replace your clearance one. But as they don't have any available the best they can offer is a £450 discount or your money back.

It's funny, you came on here asking for people's opinions but when you didn't like any of the answers which weren't in agreement with yours, you started to get narky!?

Maybe you shouldn't have bothered??
This is how warranties work for TVs. Do you really think they stock the same TVs for 4 years after people buy them, on the off chance someone needs a replacement?

New models come out every month, so it makes complete sense they no longer stock the same model, since you (I assume) bought the last one they had. So they have no other choice but to offer the value in vouchers or a refund.
Original Poster
bobdylan

Basically they would offer you like for like, in other words, a clearance … Basically they would offer you like for like, in other words, a clearance one to replace your clearance one. But as they don't have any available the best they can offer is a £450 discount or your money back.It's funny, you came on here asking for people's opinions but when you didn't like any of the answers which weren't in agreement with yours, you started to get narky!?Maybe you shouldn't have bothered??



I havnt got narky as you put it - your opinions are interesting - i just dont agree.

Time will tell - worst case is i get money back - best case is brand new tv or perhaps a compromise can be sorted.

mathew1971

Exactly like for like being same tv for same or similar spec tv - lets … Exactly like for like being same tv for same or similar spec tv - lets say you bought a tv new boxed etc on an offer and the following week it broke the tv had now gone back up in price by £100 - JL had the tvs in stock, under the warranty you would expect the tv to be replaced for a new one of same model?


That's a different scenario and in that case you would receive a like for like replacement.
mathew1971

Exactly i was prepared to take the risk because JL offer a 5 year no … Exactly i was prepared to take the risk because JL offer a 5 year no quibble warranty - i am happy for them to give me an unboxed tv with no stand.At the end of the day they shouldnt offer warranty on clearance if they dont want to honour it.



Im sure you'd be happy with that, but they aren't willing to open one of their brand new units at their further expense.

Look at it from their perspective. Open one of their £700 brand new item and give it to you for £450. So thats a double whammy they take. Losing out on two TVs at their cost.

Or refund you the full amount so neither party loses out from their stances prior to any sale.

You cant tell them to go and open a box and replace that like for like model. The warranty doesnt exist for that reason. If they tell you they aint got that model in stock, then thats tough.
mathew1971

I havnt got narky as you put it - your opinions are interesting - i just … I havnt got narky as you put it - your opinions are interesting - i just dont agree.Time will tell - worst case is i get money back - best case is brand new tv or perhaps a compromise can be sorted.



Not just my opinion, everyone else's in this thread... except you it seems...

Good luck with arguing with JL regarding this, if it's anything like your reasoning in this thread then you'll need it
A warranty is whatever the company want it to be. That is aside your legal rights. But on this occasion, John Lewis are being more than fair.
Original Poster
windym

A warranty is whatever the company want it to be. That is aside your … A warranty is whatever the company want it to be. That is aside your legal rights. But on this occasion, John Lewis are being more than fair.



Pretty much not worth the paper its written on then!
To be fair to the OP, the wording on the warranty does say " If the product's used in the prescribed way and it breaks down, our duty is to get the appliance back to working order – and if we can't do that, we'll replace it with the same model, or discuss an alternative with you if that's no longer available"

OP says the model is still available
I've actually bought a lot of ex display electrical items from John lewis but I asked about the warranty before buying.

I was told that if they couldn't fix the item they would give me a new one if they had it in stock (note not another ex display one) or they would refund me the purchase cost. so far I've been lucky and my repairs have fixed the issue but I've not had an un-fixable product so not tested that bit.

I'd take the money as you're unlikely to get a new TV out of them and you should have clarified this with them before purchase to avoid the situation you're in now.
Op, if you bought in store and the store have them, it may be worth taking a copy of the store warranty in with you and discussing it in a civilised fashion.

But, if you bought in store and they don't have them but do have stock online, then you have absolutely no argument with their warranty terms.
Original Poster
deanos

To be fair to the OP, the wording on the warranty does say " If the … To be fair to the OP, the wording on the warranty does say " If the product's used in the prescribed way and it breaks down, our duty is to get the appliance back to working order – and if we can't do that, we'll replace it with the same model, or discuss an alternative with you if that's no longer available"OP says the model is still available



Thank you - i would really have preferred the original tv to be working - plus if the screen was available as a spare then the repair company would have fitted new screen under warranty they only havnt because as tv is new to range the screens are not available as a spare yet.
Edited by: "mathew1971" 21st Jul 2016
deanos

To be fair to the OP, the wording on the warranty does say " If the … To be fair to the OP, the wording on the warranty does say " If the product's used in the prescribed way and it breaks down, our duty is to get the appliance back to working order – and if we can't do that, we'll replace it with the same model, or discuss an alternative with you if that's no longer available"OP says the model is still available



But your ignoring the fact that this item regardless of the model was a clearance/discounted item and was bought as seen. JL no longer or didnt have many clearance models hence they cannot replace it with one, therefore offered a full refund.

The generic terms and conditions of warranty are clearly aimed at those buying brand new items that havent been discounted based on their unique conditions. The T&Cs regarding warranty would have to be accessed case by case for items sold like this one. Its really down to JL. It's their legal obligation to refund the OP or settle on the case. From what info ive read, I can see the business/financial sense to offer a full refund rather than go the extra mile yet again to give the customer wat they want.

Lets not forget the OP has had a significant discount already on the TV when originally purchased. Secondly its cost JL to send out engineers to further look into the issue/fault. And this is the part where its so called taking the ****, you'd want them to open up a fully brand new sealed box to replace the faulty unit that clearly was an ex display model. If thats the case JL might as well give him the stand and box on top for free. Its not like they have any use for it. That'll be another £700 off their inventory.

So they prob be at a loss of over £1k just to please a customer who knew the risks prior to purchase.

Yes the OP may no think the warranty is worth the paper it is written on, but they must acknowledge the mitigating/ special circumstances that this was no normal standard item for sale therefore you cant expect JL to treat it like it was.
It does not matter if it was a clearance model, the OP has been given terms and they are quite clear , if clearance models had different terms then this should have been stated but it does not , we don't need to get involved in the cost, the OP has it in black and white and this forms part of the contract when buying the goods

The OP says you can still buy the same model

OP is it still available at JL ? if its not then i agree a refund would be due, but if it is then you have the terms you can go back at them with
Original Poster
dixin123

But your ignoring the fact that this item regardless of the model was a … But your ignoring the fact that this item regardless of the model was a clearance/discounted item and was bought as seen. JL no longer or didnt have many clearance models hence they cannot replace it with one, therefore offered a full refund. The generic terms and conditions of warranty are clearly aimed at those buying brand new items that havent been discounted based on their unique conditions. The T&Cs regarding warranty would have to be accessed case by case for items sold like this one. Its really down to JL. It's their legal obligation to refund the OP or settle on the case. From what info ive read, I can see the business/financial sense to offer a full refund rather than go the extra mile yet again to give the customer wat they want.Lets not forget the OP has had a significant discount already on the TV when originally purchased. Secondly its cost JL to send out engineers to further look into the issue/fault. And this is the part where its so called taking the ****, you'd want them to open up a fully brand new sealed box to replace the faulty unit that clearly was an ex display model. If thats the case JL might as well give him the stand and box on top for free. Its not like they have any use for it. That'll be another £700 off their inventory. So they prob be at a loss of over £1k just to please a customer who knew the risks prior to purchase.Yes the OP may no think the warranty is worth the paper it is written on, but they must acknowledge the mitigating/ special circumstances that this was no normal standard item for sale therefore you cant expect JL to treat it like it was.



I agree with all you have said but JL should simply exclude open box items from the warranty - its not as 5 year parts and labour warranty is printed on my receipt. You may call it taking the **** but all i want is the tv i bought working - i would have accepted a repair if it was possible.

Original Poster
deanos

It does not matter if it was a clearance model, the OP has been given … It does not matter if it was a clearance model, the OP has been given terms and they are quite clear , if clearance models had different terms then this should have been stated but it does not , we don't need to get involved in the cost, the OP has it in black and white and this forms part of the contract when buying the goodsThe OP says you can still buy the same model OP is it still available at JL ? if its not then i agree a refund would be due, but if it is then you have the terms you can go back at them with



Yes its online and instore.
deanos

It does not matter if it was a clearance model, the OP has been given … It does not matter if it was a clearance model, the OP has been given terms and they are quite clear , if clearance models had different terms then this should have been stated but it does not , we don't need to get involved in the cost, the OP has it in black and white and this forms part of the contract when buying the goodsThe OP says you can still buy the same model OP is it still available at JL ? if its not then i agree a refund would be due, but if it is then you have the terms you can go back at them with



Depends what it says on the receipt. If the item is described as discounted under the description or a different item number, then there would be legal basis to say that it is not the same model. For example JL might have different stock allocations for refurbished/clearance models than their brand new stock.

They have already offered the OP a full refund, but he wants to push it more
Original Poster
dixin123

Depends what it says on the receipt. If the item is described as … Depends what it says on the receipt. If the item is described as discounted under the description or a different item number, then there would be legal basis to say that it is not the same model. For example JL might have different stock allocations for refurbished/clearance models than their brand new stock.They have already offered the OP a full refund, but he wants to push it more



I have a receipt with item number plus another sheet detailing what was missing etc - neither state item is excluded from warranty. Infact receipt actually states included!

The fact that they have been out to repair under warranty in my eyes means they should follow up and replace as per their small print.

As deanos stated they should have seperate t&c for clearance/open box items.
mathew1971

As deanos stated they should have seperate t&c for clearance/open box … As deanos stated they should have seperate t&c for clearance/open box items.



agreed
mathew1971

Pretty much not worth the paper its written on then!


It is for 99.9% of us
Original Poster
Also possibly covered by Sony warranty by either a claim myself or a claim to Sony from JL.
Original Poster
chocci

It is for 99.9% of us



Remember that if a retailer gives you a warranty and then changes the terms after you have purchased.
JL are having a laugh. All they do with products that are not repairable within the first year is send them back to manufacturer for full credit. The warranty is between the customer and JL as far as the customer is concerned. The warranty is between the manufacturer and JL as far as JL is concerned. TV is still available so should be replaced.
Peegy

JL are having a laugh. All they do with products that are not repairable … JL are having a laugh. All they do with products that are not repairable within the first year is send them back to manufacturer for full credit. The warranty is between the customer and JL as far as the customer is concerned. The warranty is between the manufacturer and JL as far as JL is concerned. TV is still available so should be replaced.


Of course it isn't. Okay take this scenario. If the op had bought that same TV at the standard price but it was complete i.e. had everything, was boxed and completely new. Then, said TV breaks down - would the op then accept a TV from the clearance section without the stand or the box? Of course they wouldn't.

The warranty states "we'll replace it with the same model" - the same model doesn't technically exist as they do not have another one in the same state, if they did I am sure they would exchange it no quibble, however by selling the TV off cheap WITHOUT the stand / box makes it a slightly different model.
Ex display or not op should be getting like for like it's in their t&c.
Original Poster
I think this really boils down to the fact that they shouldn't issue warranty with open box or warranty should have explicit t&c.

If screen had been available it would have been repaired which would have cost JL a reasonable amount however they would happily of done this.

As peegy states the tv will be returned to Sony for full credit to JL - they will lose nothing.

Their warranty t&c are far to vague and therefore they leave themselves open to challenge in cases such as this.
ipswich78

Of course it isn't. Okay take this scenario. If the op had bought that … Of course it isn't. Okay take this scenario. If the op had bought that same TV at the standard price but it was complete i.e. had everything, was boxed and completely new. Then, said TV breaks down - would the op then accept a TV from the clearance section without the stand or the box? Of course they wouldn't.The warranty states "we'll replace it with the same model" - the same model doesn't technically exist as they do not have another one in the same state, if they did I am sure they would exchange it no quibble, however by selling the TV off cheap WITHOUT the stand / box makes it a slightly different model.



Simple answer to that. They exchange like for like. They keep the stand and box from exchange TV and just give op replacement TV. Then send back a complete TV for full credit.
mathew1971

I think this really boils down to the fact that they shouldn't issue … I think this really boils down to the fact that they shouldn't issue warranty with open box or warranty should have explicit t&c.If screen had been available it would have been repaired which would have cost JL a reasonable amount however they would happily of done this.As peegy states the tv will be returned to Sony for full credit to JL - they will lose nothing.Their warranty t&c are far to vague and therefore they leave themselves open to challenge in cases such as this.


Which part of 'they do not have a like for like to give you' do you not understand?
Peegy

Simple answer to that. They exchange like for like. They keep the stand … Simple answer to that. They exchange like for like. They keep the stand and box from exchange TV and just give op replacement TV. Then send back a complete TV for full credit.


But that's just not how these things work. The TV within the clearance section would of be written down from a cost perspective to allow JL to sell it at that discounted price. It was 'soiled goods' i.e. not new so they could not sell it as such.
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