John Lewis & Partners suspended from hotukdeals - 6.2.2020 John Lewis now allowed on site again

ADMIN 337
Posted 22nd Jan
Update 1
Update

John Lewis and Partners deals can now be posted again. JL has given us assurances it has spoken to the relevant teams in its business that we were concerned about.

It is worth saying that we will continue to monitor this, and if we see the same activity then we would take action again. Fingers crossed all is solved now though.

Thanks for the patience!
Hi all,

Just a quick update to let you all know John Lewis & Partners are currently suspended as a merchant, so deals from them won't be allowed on the site (when you go to post a deal and put the URL in, a message should flag up to warn you about this).

The reason for the suspension is repeated self-promotion. We are able to monitor who is posting deals, and could see that its staff were submitting deals, which we don't allow. There have been a number of warnings, and obviously we delete the deals ASAP, but these haven't been heeded.

We hope the suspension period will allow John Lewis to sort their processes out and stop this happening again in future. We'll update this post when the suspension is lifted.

Thanks
Planty
Community Updates
Official Announcements
Top comments
imran99922/01/2020 13:28

or maybe just the case that JL have refused to pay Pepper any commission …or maybe just the case that JL have refused to pay Pepper any commission from the links generated from HUKD?


Nope, can categorically say this isn't part of the reason at all - in fact John Lewis do pay us when people use deals from them, so this will put a stop to any commission while they are suspended
Pretty disappointed with you HUKD - what if there are some really good deals which are now missed because of this ban? All downhill since Pepper

UPDATE - this was a ‘top comment’ though seems mods have swapped it out for one of their responses (which only has 1 like compared to 10 on this at time of update).... hmmmmmm
Edited by: "N898TS" 22nd Jan
Serious question, Planty. How do you KNOW it isn't just a JL employee that just happens to be a HUKD member and posts what they consider a great, unmissable deal?

This sounds a bit like the National Lottery rule where employees CANNOT be players. Does that mean ANYONE who's an employee of a particular company CANNOT post a deal for the company they work for? Even if it's a fab deal that people should know about? Sorry, I'm sounding naive now but I thought "self-promotion" would be more if an actual representative of a company tried to advertise on here - not just a Tom/Duke/Harry who's a 'general-Joe' member?

I'll admit - this intrigues me. It seems quite unbelievable that these quite prominent companies would actively try to get themselves in hot water over an internet 'deals' website. I'd have thought they have much bigger fish to fry! The fact that you say they've been warned leads me to think it's more an 'individual' rather than the organisation that's at fault.

Oh well - ours is not to reason why...
This site just seems to make up it's own rules to suit itself.

I got a now tv deal taken down where you get free passes from being a customer of simply games. I got told because it's targetted. Same deal was allowed a few months back.

The two hottest deals of the day were these :-

Free cookie for Blue Monday @ Subway via app / card

FREE Savoury Bake from Greggs @ Vodafone VeryMe

They are both targetted as well.

I don't trust this site at all now, everything is twisted to suit their own agenda.
337 Comments
Serious question, Planty. How do you KNOW it isn't just a JL employee that just happens to be a HUKD member and posts what they consider a great, unmissable deal?

This sounds a bit like the National Lottery rule where employees CANNOT be players. Does that mean ANYONE who's an employee of a particular company CANNOT post a deal for the company they work for? Even if it's a fab deal that people should know about? Sorry, I'm sounding naive now but I thought "self-promotion" would be more if an actual representative of a company tried to advertise on here - not just a Tom/Duke/Harry who's a 'general-Joe' member?

I'll admit - this intrigues me. It seems quite unbelievable that these quite prominent companies would actively try to get themselves in hot water over an internet 'deals' website. I'd have thought they have much bigger fish to fry! The fact that you say they've been warned leads me to think it's more an 'individual' rather than the organisation that's at fault.

Oh well - ours is not to reason why...
HUKD is getting Boring now... Previous merchant banned was asda, now John Lewis & partners... May find some decent deals of tesco or other average retailers... But over all its not as good as like before... May be in future other retailers may pull out soon from hukd platform.
Phsycronix22/01/2020 13:14

Serious question, Planty. How do you KNOW it isn't just a JL employee that …Serious question, Planty. How do you KNOW it isn't just a JL employee that just happens to be a HUKD member and posts what they consider a great, unmissable deal?This sounds a bit like the National Lottery rule where employees CANNOT be players. Does that mean ANYONE who's an employee of a particular company CANNOT post a deal for the company they work for? Even if it's a fab deal that people should know about? Sorry, I'm sounding naive now but I thought "self-promotion" would be more if an actual representative of a company tried to advertise on here - not just a Tom/Duke/Harry who's a 'general-Joe' member?I'll admit - this intrigues me. It seems quite unbelievable that these quite prominent companies would actively try to get themselves in hot water over an internet 'deals' website. I'd have thought they have much bigger fish to fry! The fact that you say they've been warned leads me to think it's more an 'individual' rather than the organisation that's at fault.Oh well - ours is not to reason why...


My thoughts too, I would have thought self promotion would be the marketing team and the likes purposely posting their deals, not just the person on checkout who spotted a deal and posted it for the benefit of others, not the company.
John Lewis is now excommunicado
winzzz22/01/2020 13:17

My thoughts too, I would have thought self promotion would be the …My thoughts too, I would have thought self promotion would be the marketing team and the likes purposely posting their deals, not just the person on checkout who spotted a deal and posted it for the benefit of others, not the company.



I know, right? It's like "The company we can't mention" recently and their ban. It just seems quite odd that a mainstream company would do this sort of thing. I'd have thought it would seem quite trivial and inconsequential to them. When you consider the hundreds (probably thousands) of employees of said companies who are HUKD members - I've seen deals posted as 'insider' deals and promotions by these individuals. Is THAT not Self-Promo then? I really don't know...
Pretty disappointed with you HUKD - what if there are some really good deals which are now missed because of this ban? All downhill since Pepper

UPDATE - this was a ‘top comment’ though seems mods have swapped it out for one of their responses (which only has 1 like compared to 10 on this at time of update).... hmmmmmm
Edited by: "N898TS" 22nd Jan
Logic would dictate that an active HUKD'er who happens to be a JL employee posting JL deals would be allowed.
Surely this wouldn't stop JL deals,, so I can only assume that there is more to it than that.
This site is turning to garbage.

If it's a great deal then it's a great deal and it doesn't matter who posts it.
Hi @Planty720 , just for clarity, does this mean Waitrose & Partners are also suspended?
or maybe just the case that JL have refused to pay Pepper any commission from the links generated from HUKD?
imran99922/01/2020 13:28

or maybe just the case that JL have refused to pay Pepper any commission …or maybe just the case that JL have refused to pay Pepper any commission from the links generated from HUKD?


Definitely some sort of commission dispiute going on!
The other thing I'm wondering is - who gets the warnings? JL - or the HUKD member who posted? If it's the latter - is that JL fault? How would they remedy this? Threaten to sack ANY employee that posts on HUKD?

Really confusing, to be fair and not really understandable why it even matters? A deal (at the end of the day) is only a deal to another HUKD member if:

a) THEY think it is - by comparing it to other offers.
b) They want that product/service

As said previously - Self-Promo in my book is blatantly obvious when a company pushes their product as the next best thing to sliced bread. When it's just a random 'deal' for something that we may all be interested in - is that harmful?

I do appreciate HUKD/Staff doing what they do to presumably protect us all so I'm not attacking their methods or policies. It's their website to do with as they see fit. I still enjoy frequenting it. Some things however do puzzle and I hate being puzzled!
Even if it is self promotion surely it is then up to the HUKD members to vote whether it goes hot or not?
Phsycronix22/01/2020 13:22

I know, right? It's like "The company we can't mention" recently and their …I know, right? It's like "The company we can't mention" recently and their ban. It just seems quite odd that a mainstream company would do this sort of thing. I'd have thought it would seem quite trivial and inconsequential to them. When you consider the hundreds (probably thousands) of employees of said companies who are HUKD members - I've seen deals posted as 'insider' deals and promotions by these individuals. Is THAT not Self-Promo then? I really don't know...


Is it possibly down to the potential of these companies flooding the site with “non-deals” that mislead users into believing they got a bargain? (I mean, look at the state of Black Friday these days. ) How many times have you heard of the great DFS sale for example?

It’s to protect the integrity of the site and it’s user’s pockets that self-promotion isn’t allowed I think. Insider deals normally have to be verified too and as I think @Planty720 and @magicjay1986 have mentioned a few times, they are passed deals all the time from retailers and the editors have to filter through the junk to find the real deals.
will allow John Lewis to sort their processes outDoes
Does that mean stop posting from an identifiable JL web address? get staff to do it from their home email?
Ocado are also part of the JL group ?
As I'm sure you'll appreciate, it would tip off retailers if we explained our tools and tactics to find self promotion. But from the evidence we can see, this is about as clear as day to be a pattern, rather than just the odd one-off.

We actually ban and suspend merchants all the time for this sort of behaviour, and have become experienced at spotting it and verifying it is happening. We don't announce them all as they are often a lot less well known than JL.

However, to the point that a few of you have made about this site being small fry etc for these retailers, that doesn't tally with what we hear from a lot of retailers. This is now a huge site, with a very knowledgeable community that offers opinions, advice etc on products. A hot deal on here results in a lot of interest for companies, and they would call it 'high quality traffic' - we obviously don't like or use such impersonal terminology! So we aren't surprised that the desire to self-promote is there, and we take a lot of time and thought to protect the community from it.

We hope they can reassure us and get allowed back on soon.
reindeer33322/01/2020 13:27

Hi @Planty720 , just for clarity, does this mean Waitrose & Partners are …Hi @Planty720 , just for clarity, does this mean Waitrose & Partners are also suspended?


Hey - no they aren't, just John Lewis & Partners for now
How do you find out who is who ?
This site just seems to make up it's own rules to suit itself.

I got a now tv deal taken down where you get free passes from being a customer of simply games. I got told because it's targetted. Same deal was allowed a few months back.

The two hottest deals of the day were these :-

Free cookie for Blue Monday @ Subway via app / card

FREE Savoury Bake from Greggs @ Vodafone VeryMe

They are both targetted as well.

I don't trust this site at all now, everything is twisted to suit their own agenda.
Biddy222/01/2020 13:34

Is it possibly down to the potential of these companies flooding the site …Is it possibly down to the potential of these companies flooding the site with “non-deals” that mislead users into believing they got a bargain? (I mean, look at the state of Black Friday these days. ) How many times have you heard of the great DFS sale for example? It’s to protect the integrity of the site and it’s user’s pockets that self-promotion isn’t allowed I think. Insider deals normally have to be verified too and as I think @Planty720 and @magicjay1986 have mentioned a few times, they are passed deals all the time from retailers and the editors have to filter through the junk to find the real deals.



I get what you say Biddy2, and do agree but as to my comment and point (a) - is it not the buyers responsibility to make sure they are happy that a deal is actually a deal? I.e. don't just take it on blind faith?

Anyway, now people have started mentioning commission/payment etc. all our comments will soon disappear so it's all a moot point. Never mind eh? I like to discuss things like this but when it gets quashed because the topic turns against the site - pooooof! It's gone.
imran99922/01/2020 13:28

or maybe just the case that JL have refused to pay Pepper any commission …or maybe just the case that JL have refused to pay Pepper any commission from the links generated from HUKD?


Nope, can categorically say this isn't part of the reason at all - in fact John Lewis do pay us when people use deals from them, so this will put a stop to any commission while they are suspended
Dan22/01/2020 13:37

Hey - no they aren't, just John Lewis & Partners for now


Thanks for the response
Phsycronix22/01/2020 13:14

Serious question, Planty. How do you KNOW it isn't just a JL employee that …Serious question, Planty. How do you KNOW it isn't just a JL employee that just happens to be a HUKD member and posts what they consider a great, unmissable deal?This sounds a bit like the National Lottery rule where employees CANNOT be players. Does that mean ANYONE who's an employee of a particular company CANNOT post a deal for the company they work for? Even if it's a fab deal that people should know about? Sorry, I'm sounding naive now but I thought "self-promotion" would be more if an actual representative of a company tried to advertise on here - not just a Tom/Duke/Harry who's a 'general-Joe' member?I'll admit - this intrigues me. It seems quite unbelievable that these quite prominent companies would actively try to get themselves in hot water over an internet 'deals' website. I'd have thought they have much bigger fish to fry! The fact that you say they've been warned leads me to think it's more an 'individual' rather than the organisation that's at fault.Oh well - ours is not to reason why...


I seem to only end up posting Lidl deals even though I don't work there.

Hope I'm not next for the chopping block
Phsycronix22/01/2020 13:38

Anyway, now people have started mentioning commission/payment etc. all our …Anyway, now people have started mentioning commission/payment etc. all our comments will soon disappear so it's all a moot point. Never mind eh? I like to discuss things like this but when it gets quashed because the topic turns against the site - pooooof! It's gone.


Not at all - there are plenty of threads discussion how the site makes money, and that criticise us - generally we engage and allow all points to be made, providing they are polite and on-topic
Dan22/01/2020 13:36

As I'm sure you'll appreciate, it would tip off retailers if we explained …As I'm sure you'll appreciate, it would tip off retailers if we explained our tools and tactics to find self promotion. But from the evidence we can see, this is about as clear as day to be a pattern, rather than just the odd one-off.We actually ban and suspend merchants all the time for this sort of behaviour, and have become experienced at spotting it and verifying it is happening. We don't announce them all as they are often a lot less well known than JL.However, to the point that a few of you have made about this site being small fry etc for these retailers, that doesn't tally with what we hear from a lot of retailers. This is now a huge site, with a very knowledgeable community that offers opinions, advice etc on products. A hot deal on here results in a lot of interest for companies, and they would call it 'high quality traffic' - we obviously don't like or use such impersonal terminology! So we aren't surprised that the desire to self-promote is there, and we take a lot of time and thought to protect the community from it.We hope they can reassure us and get allowed back on soon.



Sorry Planty. I never meant to suggest that HUKD are; as you put it; "small fry." I just naively assumed that a multi-national concern such as JL (and the 'other' one recently) wouldn't be scoping up HUKD as a major concern. I can see how I may have underestimated that. I still wonder though, whether the Marketing/Promotions team would be aware that these things are happening and undermining their prominence? My naivety shines yet again!
Phsycronix22/01/2020 13:38

I get what you say Biddy2, and do agree but as to my comment and point (a) …I get what you say Biddy2, and do agree but as to my comment and point (a) - is it not the buyers responsibility to make sure they are happy that a deal is actually a deal? I.e. don't just take it on blind faith?Anyway, now people have started mentioning commission/payment etc. all our comments will soon disappear so it's all a moot point. Never mind eh? I like to discuss things like this but when it gets quashed because the topic turns against the site - pooooof! It's gone.


It’s absolutely our responsibility however, the site is about helping everyone and not everyone is as savvy about what is a good deal (as happens when things posted go cold). Look at how utility companies are allowing people to overpay for services and how many don’t understand the need to shop around?

I think most of us due to our long standing and experience here, do underestimate how many people are spending over the odds when they don’t need to. The site tries to help prevent that and if retailers start flooding here with non-deals, that gies out the window and the site becomes a glorified advertisement company. It loses it’s identity.

Regarding comments being removed, I had a discussion removed yesterday for discussing this article. eurogamer.net/art…ief It was considered political by the mod that removed it because we were discussing how the company didn’t need to take that money (it earns billions). Due to it being about corporate tax, that became political apparently despite us using taxes on this very site (V.A.T. and import fees). It was very heavy handed in my opinion, but what can we do? Sorted now.
Edited by: "Biddy2" 22nd Jan
Phsycronix22/01/2020 13:47

Sorry Planty. I never meant to suggest that HUKD are; as you put it; "small …Sorry Planty. I never meant to suggest that HUKD are; as you put it; "small fry." I just naively assumed that a multi-national concern such as JL (and the 'other' one recently) wouldn't be scoping up HUKD as a major concern. I can see how I may have underestimated that. I still wonder though, whether the Marketing/Promotions team would be aware that these things are happening and undermining their prominence? My naivety shines yet again!


Oh don't worry, not taken negatively at all, and we like the homely, under-the-radar feel we have here - it makes it a great place to work and hopefully for you to all spend time on.

But we now have size and a great reputation, and are seen as really quite 'important' as a way to showcase products to potential customers by some retailers who are definitely much more well-known than we are.
I'm going to pretend to work for Aliexpress, banggood and dealextreme and post a load of deals so they get taken down too
The thing is though, if it's a genuine deal with a good saving would anybody here care if it was self promotion or not?
Dan22/01/2020 13:45

Not at all - there are plenty of threads discussion how the site makes …Not at all - there are plenty of threads discussion how the site makes money, and that criticise us - generally we engage and allow all points to be made, providing they are polite and on-topic



That's the problem though, isn't it? The 'interesting' threads always seem to devolve and then disappear. The recent one's concerning another major supermarket retailer had some interesting viewpoints but that swiftly vanished. I know we can be a harsh bunch at times but that's the danger of running a 'discussions' platform, isn't it. You have to take the rough as well as the smooth...

We'll see how this one fares on the helter-skelter eh?
Fake News - still loads of John Lewis deals on HUKD
Biddy222/01/2020 13:48

It’s absolutely our responsibility however, the site is about helping e …It’s absolutely our responsibility however, the site is about helping everyone and not everyone is as savvy about what is a good deal (as happens when things posted go cold).



Ah, but that's where the discussion/comments come in handy. I have never purchased anything without taking into account some of the very useful feedback/comments left by members. They help you decide if a deal is really worthy - or not. The "heat" is just incidental to me. I've seen cold deals that were actually great deals but many just don't either like the product/company etc.

It's getting the balance right and sorting out the lesser of the evils. That's why I'm glad I don't have the Mod's job!
I don't see how a staff member posting a deal for John Lewis could be classed as self promotion. What exactly does the staff member gain financially? It's not like an ebay/amazon trader promoting their site. I'd say the people participating in the pepper programme are far more damaging to the site than store staff, it's so hard to actually find the decent deals now amongst the junk deals that people are paid to find.
LazyDonkey22/01/2020 13:53

Fake News - still loads of John Lewis deals on HUKD


we aren't deleting old ones, just not allowing new ones
MrKrabs22/01/2020 13:50

I'm going to pretend to work for Aliexpress, banggood and dealextreme and …I'm going to pretend to work for Aliexpress, banggood and dealextreme and post a load of deals so they get taken down too


Not much chance of that, plenty of affiliate dollar for Mr HUKD
Azwipe22/01/2020 13:57

I don't see how a staff member posting a deal for John Lewis could be …I don't see how a staff member posting a deal for John Lewis could be classed as self promotion. What exactly does the staff member gain financially? It's not like an ebay/amazon trader promoting their site. I'd say the people participating in the pepper programme are far more damaging to the site than store staff, it's so hard to actually find the decent deals now amongst the junk deals that people are paid to find.



That's the bit we don't know though, isn't it. Perhaps they ARE gaining something - i.e. someone who is actively being paid to post deals. Hang on - that idea sounds vaguely familiar???
Bottom line - if it's a great deal, who gives a monkey's who posts it?
Dan22/01/2020 13:58

we aren't deleting old ones, just not allowing new ones


Ok, let's imagine a scenario where I go in to my local branch of John Lewis and find a fantastic bargain, maybe a big stack of good electronic products such as headphones, laptops etc marked down to clear for a superb price. Why shouldn't I be allowed to share that with the other users here who are looking for good deals too? It's not as if me posting an instore deal has anything to do with John Lewis' self promotion is it?
Edited by: "Haircut_100" 22nd Jan
If this is more about not paying for clicks than genuine self promotion shame on you hduk. We should be doing all we can to support our high street sellers in these tough times.
Phsycronix22/01/2020 13:51

...The recent one's concerning another major supermarket retailer had some …...The recent one's concerning another major supermarket retailer had some interesting viewpoints but that swiftly vanished.


Early stage of that thread lives on here: archive.is/4Pb9W
Post a comment
Avatar
@
    Text

    Discussions