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Legal loophole?

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Posted 24th Jan
Hi everyone didn’t know where to start so thought I’d ask here then seek legal advice couple days ago I had a government body (Food standard agency) visit my premises unannounced which I’m aware is their right 100% however the busy body made it his business to go through my business personal files and accounting documents by entering a restricted room which clearly states no entry so I was and still am very annoyed I feel this as an invasion of privacy/Data protection issues as there are staff files and docs in the office as you would expect information on the business and accounts. So what I’m asking is any advice or should I just take it on the chin and let it go?
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Are you by any chance expecting a poor rating?.
Just thinking a little bit outside the box, it was was the food standards agency, if a room had no entry on it, a dubious business might hide stuff in there they didn't want finding, additionally the inspector may have been looking for an audit of where you brought your products from possibly, maybe worthwhile asking next time what they are looking for, just probably better letting it go
Bearing in mind he wont be the only council inspector, I'd invite his boss down for tea, a walk over of the premises & a chat about unprofessional conduct & request that for all the right reasons that guy was 're-assigned to visit elsewhere lest you cite him as troublesome & going beyond his remit to the head of the district council.
Be open, say the guy is holding a grudge, bearing in mind long distant past spat & after 20 odd years seems to hold a grudge, ..this is you asking nicely & courteously to intercede, lest you have to take it further to get a fair rating.
Edited by: "Mr_Gus" 24th Jan
Sonic_Rahman24/01/2020 22:32

I’m a little confused what you mean I didn’t say I threw him through a win …I’m a little confused what you mean I didn’t say I threw him through a window it was a heated argument yes I may have threatened that but that’s as far as it went.


But that's exactly what you wrote


'I was much younger and hot headed and told him to F off before I threw him through a window'
51 Comments
legal500.com/

Worth consulting a legal professional and the costs of which could be written off business expense.

Anything they get would be inadmissible in court but I'm not expert in regulatory litigation.
Just thinking a little bit outside the box, it was was the food standards agency, if a room had no entry on it, a dubious business might hide stuff in there they didn't want finding, additionally the inspector may have been looking for an audit of where you brought your products from possibly, maybe worthwhile asking next time what they are looking for, just probably better letting it go
Did you verbally refuse entry to this area? Were you present in this room and asked why they were looking at said documents? Were they looking at receipts of consumable goods? Did you ACTUALLY witness the operative taking or reading confidential information?

From the FSA "Power of entry" (that I can remember) they can go anywhere unrestricted unless specifically denied entry (not just a sign) - whereby they can obtain/produce a warrant to obtain entry anyway.

Depends; I guess; on what you are looking for (get someone wrong/an apology etc.) as to whether you wish to take things further. Unless they did any harm, I'd probably let it go. Alternatively, if you are worried about data protection, ask them for copies of any/all information they took note of in regards to your case file.

I take it their visit uncovered nothing of note and everything was ok? Hope so.

Best regards, Phsy.
Sammy8624/01/2020 21:21

https://www.legal500.com/Worth consulting a legal professional and the …https://www.legal500.com/Worth consulting a legal professional and the costs of which could be written off business expense.Anything they get would be inadmissible in court but I'm not expert in regulatory litigation.


I’m not worried about them showing anything in court it’s more the principal I feel like my privacy was invaded how can someone just go through your business files like that.
Are you by any chance expecting a poor rating?.
sidhoooooo24/01/2020 21:32

Just thinking a little bit outside the box, it was was the food standards …Just thinking a little bit outside the box, it was was the food standards agency, if a room had no entry on it, a dubious business might hide stuff in there they didn't want finding, additionally the inspector may have been looking for an audit of where you brought your products from possibly, maybe worthwhile asking next time what they are looking for, just probably better letting it go


Thank you I understand what your saying I just feel like the officer was going through documentation which I don’t believe he has any right to it’s a managers office so no entry without approval but I’m guessing it won’t be worth taking it any further as it would be a long battle and the last thing I want is someone with a grudge trying to shut me down. I just feel annoyed because he was a bully pushing his weight around and doing whatever he liked.
Phsycronix24/01/2020 21:47

Did you verbally refuse entry to this area? Were you present in this room …Did you verbally refuse entry to this area? Were you present in this room and asked why they were looking at said documents? Were they looking at receipts of consumable goods? Did you ACTUALLY witness the operative taking or reading confidential information?From the FSA "Power of entry" (that I can remember) they can go anywhere unrestricted unless specifically denied entry (not just a sign) - whereby they can obtain/produce a warrant to obtain entry anyway.Depends; I guess; on what you are looking for (get someone wrong/an apology etc.) as to whether you wish to take things further. Unless they did any harm, I'd probably let it go. Alternatively, if you are worried about data protection, ask them for copies of any/all information they took note of in regards to your case file.I take it their visit uncovered nothing of note and everything was ok? Hope so.Best regards, Phsy.


The visit uncovered nothing serious he was just being petty to damage my business the officer was trying to be a bully ordering me to stay in one place while he looked around and bringing up a past incident between him and me ( I was much younger and hot headed and told him to F off before I threw him through a window) me and this officer just have bad blood from many years ago and I think your right just gotta take it on the chin I guess.
ScubaDudes24/01/2020 22:00

Are you by any chance expecting a poor rating?.


Oh 100% I knew I’d get a poor rating from him the second I saw him which I can live with yes it hurts as this will be the first In 20 years of trading but bad blood is just that he won’t let it go I know that.
Sonic_Rahman24/01/2020 22:12

The visit uncovered nothing serious he was just being petty to damage my …The visit uncovered nothing serious he was just being petty to damage my business the officer was trying to be a bully ordering me to stay in one place while he looked around and bringing up a past incident between him and me ( I was much younger and hot headed and told him to F off before I threw him through a window) me and this officer just have bad blood from many years ago and I think your right just gotta take it on the chin I guess.



Well in that case, no disrespect to you but - what can you expect? If you brushed with him in the past, I can quite imagine why he "puffed up." Simply put - because he knew he can and has the law on his side when it comes to public safety, health and hygiene.

As I said - the only thing you may have been able to do is verbally deny him access WITHOUT a warrant. Of course, that wouldn't do much for your relationship with this person. In fact, he'd have probably loved to tell you he can obtain a warrant and be back!

As long as nothing was wrong, swallow your pride - be the bigger person and give this petty guy his empty feeling of importance...
Sonic_Rahman24/01/2020 22:12

I was much younger and hot headed and told him to F off before I threw him …I was much younger and hot headed and told him to F off before I threw him through a window


That sort of clarifies the situation

Let it go mate you're on a hiding to nothing
Edited by: "OllieSt" 24th Jan
Contrary to popular belief you can refuse to cooperate without legal representation.
Phsycronix24/01/2020 22:17

Well in that case, no disrespect to you but - what can you expect? If you …Well in that case, no disrespect to you but - what can you expect? If you brushed with him in the past, I can quite imagine why he "puffed up." Simply put - because he knew he can and has the law on his side when it comes to public safety, health and hygiene.As I said - the only thing you may have been able to do is verbally deny him access WITHOUT a warrant. Of course, that wouldn't do much for your relationship with this person. In fact, he'd have probably loved to tell you he can obtain a warrant and be back!As long as nothing was wrong, swallow your pride - be the bigger person and give this petty guy his empty feeling of importance...


Thanks buddy I think il just let this one go I don’t see it ending positively
OllieSt24/01/2020 22:18

That sort of clarifies the situation Let it go mate you're on a hiding …That sort of clarifies the situation Let it go mate you're on a hiding to nothing


Yeah your right I just don’t like the fact he thinks he can say and do what he likes but that’s life I guess just gotta let it go.
Sonic_Rahman24/01/2020 22:12

The visit uncovered nothing serious he was just being petty to damage my …The visit uncovered nothing serious he was just being petty to damage my business the officer was trying to be a bully ordering me to stay in one place while he looked around and bringing up a past incident between him and me ( I was much younger and hot headed and told him to F off before I threw him through a window) me and this officer just have bad blood from many years ago and I think your right just gotta take it on the chin I guess.


You threw him through a window?

I'm guessing you went to court for that?

I'll take that it didn't happen for £5 please.
rogan179124/01/2020 22:26

You threw him through a window?I'm guessing you went to court for …You threw him through a window?I'm guessing you went to court for that?I'll take that it didn't happen for £5 please.


I’m a little confused what you mean I didn’t say I threw him through a window it was a heated argument yes I may have threatened that but that’s as far as it went.
Sonic_Rahman24/01/2020 22:32

I’m a little confused what you mean I didn’t say I threw him through a win …I’m a little confused what you mean I didn’t say I threw him through a window it was a heated argument yes I may have threatened that but that’s as far as it went.



lol
Willy_Wonka24/01/2020 22:19

Contrary to popular belief you can refuse to cooperate without legal …Contrary to popular belief you can refuse to cooperate without legal representation.


I don’t know how seeing as refusal would result in my business being shut down
Bearing in mind he wont be the only council inspector, I'd invite his boss down for tea, a walk over of the premises & a chat about unprofessional conduct & request that for all the right reasons that guy was 're-assigned to visit elsewhere lest you cite him as troublesome & going beyond his remit to the head of the district council.
Be open, say the guy is holding a grudge, bearing in mind long distant past spat & after 20 odd years seems to hold a grudge, ..this is you asking nicely & courteously to intercede, lest you have to take it further to get a fair rating.
Edited by: "Mr_Gus" 24th Jan
Mr_Gus24/01/2020 23:29

Bearing in mind he wont be the only council inspector, I'd invite his boss …Bearing in mind he wont be the only council inspector, I'd invite his boss down for tea, a walk over of the premises & a chat about unprofessional conduct & request that for all the right reasons that guy was 're-assigned to visit elsewhere lest you cite him as troublesome & going beyond his remit to the head of the district council.Be open, say the guy is hoping bearing in mind long distant past spat & after 20 odd years seems to hold a grudge, ..this is you asking nicely & courteously to intercede, lest you have to take it further to get a fair rating.


This
Well, they can’t force entry anywhere, they have to leave if you ask them to do so, they can’t tell you to stand in one place and not disturb them, they can’t go through your files if you didn’t want to.
If they have a writ then this is the opposite story..... and to be honest, for them to push it a little bit too far, I’d imagine they had some sort of a warrant/writ, as they normally know what they should and should not do
Let it go basically
So what rating did you get?
Sonic_Rahman24/01/2020 22:32

I’m a little confused what you mean I didn’t say I threw him through a win …I’m a little confused what you mean I didn’t say I threw him through a window it was a heated argument yes I may have threatened that but that’s as far as it went.


But that's exactly what you wrote


'I was much younger and hot headed and told him to F off before I threw him through a window'
The legal position and enforcemennt are thus:-

What do you think your "food premises" is defined as.

What do you think the inspector's thought on the "premises" is?

Finally, what address did you declare to be your business premises (same question for your food premises). The right of the law enforcement overrides your personal and business rights unless expressly defined as exceptions or deemed to be off premises.

It is obvious to me that your business office is part of the "premises" and/or is part of your food business.

I would inpect all areas on the "defined" or inferred reasonable as part of the premises, if I found an "out of bounds" room, I would examine for any possible interaction (now and future) and cross contamination and check on staff training and process on the prevention of mishaps. Depending on what the issue is, it could either be a legal position or an advisory position. For example, you have certain chemicals in the "locked room".

As for your personal files and accounting files, these would be examined for evidence of safety in your managing your food business and in your safety record keeping. What business records that you have and keep so as to ensure safety.

You made this extremely anti food safety statement, you WROTE, "...however the busy body made it his businessto go through my business personal files and accounting documents by entering a restricted room which clearly states no entry." If this busy man did not check, how could he check that stocks, for example, were not old and that you abused and mis-managed safety?
Sonic_Rahman24/01/2020 22:32

I’m a little confused what you mean I didn’t say I threw him through a win …I’m a little confused what you mean I didn’t say I threw him through a window it was a heated argument yes I may have threatened that but that’s as far as it went.



There was no need for a heated argument. For your future reference, an inspector authorised by the law only needs to show his/her identity and his/her official paperwork, such as an ID badge from the enforcement body which is authorised by statute or an authorisation paper enabled by statute.

You could ring his/her office and to establish his/her identity is genuine.
Sonic_Rahman24/01/2020 22:32

I’m a little confused what you mean I didn’t say I threw him through a win …I’m a little confused what you mean I didn’t say I threw him through a window it was a heated argument yes I may have threatened that but that’s as far as it went.


Sorry for the confusion, I think you're talking rubbish is what I'm meaning
Sonic_Rahman24/01/2020 22:12

The visit uncovered nothing serious he was just being petty to damage my …The visit uncovered nothing serious he was just being petty to damage my business the officer was trying to be a bully ordering me to stay in one place while he looked around and bringing up a past incident between him and me ( I was much younger and hot headed and told him to F off before I threw him through a window) me and this officer just have bad blood from many years ago and I think your right just gotta take it on the chin I guess.



You said, "..and this officer just have bad blood from many years ago..."

If you thought of this officer this way, this same officer could reasonably think of you the same way.
chocci25/01/2020 04:12

But that's exactly what you wrote'I was much younger and hot headed and …But that's exactly what you wrote'I was much younger and hot headed and told him to F off before I threw him through a window'


Apologies I just read it back and it was more a threat then me actually throwing him.
splender25/01/2020 05:35

There was no need for a heated argument. For your future reference, an …There was no need for a heated argument. For your future reference, an inspector authorised by the law only needs to show his/her identity and his/her official paperwork, such as an ID badge from the enforcement body which is authorised by statute or an authorisation paper enabled by statute. You could ring his/her office and to establish his/her identity is genuine.


It had nothing to do with his identity I didn’t even have a problem with his inspection it was his attitude that caused the argument.
splender25/01/2020 05:30

The legal position and enforcemennt are thus:-What do you think your "food …The legal position and enforcemennt are thus:-What do you think your "food premises" is defined as.What do you think the inspector's thought on the "premises" is?Finally, what address did you declare to be your business premises (same question for your food premises). The right of the law enforcement overrides your personal and business rights unless expressly defined as exceptions or deemed to be off premises.It is obvious to me that your business office is part of the "premises" and/or is part of your food business.I would inpect all areas on the "defined" or inferred reasonable as part of the premises, if I found an "out of bounds" room, I would examine for any possible interaction (now and future) and cross contamination and check on staff training and process on the prevention of mishaps. Depending on what the issue is, it could either be a legal position or an advisory position. For example, you have certain chemicals in the "locked room".As for your personal files and accounting files, these would be examined for evidence of safety in your managing your food business and in your safety record keeping. What business records that you have and keep so as to ensure safety. You made this extremely anti food safety statement, you WROTE, "...however the busy body made it his businessto go through my business personal files and accounting documents by entering a restricted room which clearly states no entry." If this busy man did not check, how could he check that stocks, for example, were not old and that you abused and mis-managed safety?


All good related documentation is kept out of the office anything that needs to be seen by a officer is always presented straight away I’ve been in business 20 years had many inspections and know what documentation needs to be seen.
splender25/01/2020 07:36

You said, "..and this officer just have bad blood from many years …You said, "..and this officer just have bad blood from many years ago..."If you thought of this officer this way, this same officer could reasonably think of you the same way.


I agree which is why I also know me and him will never get along I don’t expect to hold hands and go of into the sunset with him but I do expect him not to abuse his power.
Think what you like makes no difference to me.
sfndkks25/01/2020 00:02

Well, they can’t force entry anywhere, they have to leave if you ask them t …Well, they can’t force entry anywhere, they have to leave if you ask them to do so, they can’t tell you to stand in one place and not disturb them, they can’t go through your files if you didn’t want to. If they have a writ then this is the opposite story..... and to be honest, for them to push it a little bit too far, I’d imagine they had some sort of a warrant/writ, as they normally know what they should and should not do


I never had a issue before with any other officer this ones just a bit of a .... il get over it just annoyed right now that’s all and I don’t believe he would have any warrant otherwise he would have presented it.
Gollywood25/01/2020 02:32

So what rating did you get?


I won’t know till I get the report back which will probably be in a couple days depending on snail mail it’s not 5* as he was happy enough to inform me it’s annoying but that’s life I guess.
Thanks for the help and advice from everyone I appreciate it
Sonic_Rahman25/01/2020 12:10

It had nothing to do with his identity I didn’t even have a problem with h …It had nothing to do with his identity I didn’t even have a problem with his inspection it was his attitude that caused the argument.



What was that attitude?

You wrote this and none of this expressed an attitude, please identify which phrase in here that expressed an attitude? You said, "Hi everyone didn’t know where to start so thought I’d ask here then seek legal advice couple days ago I had a government body (Food standard agency) visit my premises unannounced which I’m aware is their right 100% however the busy body made it his business to go through my business personal files and accounting documents by entering a restricted room which clearly states no entry so I was and still am very annoyed I feel this as an invasion of privacy/Data protection issues as there are staff files and docs in the office as you would expect information on the business and accounts."
Sonic_Rahman25/01/2020 12:14

All good related documentation is kept out of the office anything that …All good related documentation is kept out of the office anything that needs to be seen by a officer is always presented straight away I’ve been in business 20 years had many inspections and know what documentation needs to be seen.



Are you saying that in 20 years you had this inspector once before 20 years ago and now again in 2020?! How many inspectors had been to visit?
Sonic_Rahman25/01/2020 12:16

I agree which is why I also know me and him will never get along I don’t e …I agree which is why I also know me and him will never get along I don’t expect to hold hands and go of into the sunset with him but I do expect him not to abuse his power.



How did he abuse his power? Can you describe more what the officer did? (This can then form the base for your complaint to the inspector's boss.)
So you had a restricted room with personnel files?
If the room was unlocked and the files were not locked away you can find yourself breaching GDPR regulations.
I believe thats a 10% of your yearly profits that can you can be fined for.

What's the name of your business so we can check what the score will be?
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