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    Lib Dems Hard Brexit

    Can anyone point me in the direction of the Liberal Democrats definition of a 'Hard Brexit'?

    I've been reading some of their election documents and they keep going on about stopping this disaster of Hard Brexit but I can't find any definition of specifically what they mean by this.

    Thanks in advance for any links or pointers.

    Top comments

    Hard brexit is theresa mays stance in current negotiations.
    She's playing a strong hand in threatening the UK to walk away with no deal rather than a bad deal, which is precisely right.
    Yet you have spineless crybaby politicians screaming omg omg I'll stop the hard brexit I'll stop it whaaa.
    Look at the politicians in the eu. Strong serious leaders. Now look at uk politicians. What went wrong?
    27 Comments

    Oh look at the clouds
    https://dweaay7e22a7h.cloudfront.net/wp-content_3/uploads/2017/01/Hard-Brexit-UK-650x360.jpg

    to be fair, I don't think farron does.

    I don't think there is a term per-party.

    My understanding of 'hard Brexit' is leaving the single market in adddition to the EU.
    'Soft Brexit' is to revert to an existing model i.e. Norway

    Exactly - hard brexit is leaving all of the EU's institutions and single market. Soft brexit is to retain the single market.

    Of course, if we crash out of the single market without a deal, then we resort to WTO tariffs which will cripple us.

    Hard brexit is theresa mays stance in current negotiations.
    She's playing a strong hand in threatening the UK to walk away with no deal rather than a bad deal, which is precisely right.
    Yet you have spineless crybaby politicians screaming omg omg I'll stop the hard brexit I'll stop it whaaa.
    Look at the politicians in the eu. Strong serious leaders. Now look at uk politicians. What went wrong?

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/11/04/20/3A1210DF00000578-0-image-m-17_1478290468973.jpg


    but don't ask me I didn't vote for any of this ****

    We Don't need the EU for nuffing, Giving tenners and receiving fivers back now that is what i call a fraud.
    10 inch pulsating veiny hard Brexit is needed from behind with steel toecaps on.

    http://a68.tinypic.com/141l8oy.jpg

    Glamwampam

    We Don't need the EU for nuffing, Giving tenners and receiving fivers … We Don't need the EU for nuffing, Giving tenners and receiving fivers back now that is what i call a fraud.10 inch pulsating veiny hard Brexit is needed from behind with steel toecaps on.



    You were given a vote?

    michaelgold

    Hard brexit is theresa mays stance in current negotiations.She's playing … Hard brexit is theresa mays stance in current negotiations.She's playing a strong hand in threatening the UK to walk away with no deal rather than a bad deal, which is precisely right.Yet you have spineless crybaby politicians screaming omg omg I'll stop the hard brexit I'll stop it whaaa. Look at the politicians in the eu. Strong serious leaders. Now look at uk politicians. What went wrong?



    Hypocrite. Your ilk champions Theresa May and she is the most incompetent of the lot.
    Get some new lyrics too. This whole "remoaner" criticism is severely lacking.

    Original Poster

    drasim

    I don't think there is a term per-party.My understanding of 'hard Brexit' … I don't think there is a term per-party.My understanding of 'hard Brexit' is leaving the single market in adddition to the EU.'Soft Brexit' is to revert to an existing model i.e. Norway



    That's my understanding as well, which is where my confusion with the Lib Dem literature grows. They seem to be saying no hard Brexit because it's not what people voted for. Even in their own campaign papers Tim Farron is quoted as saying "Theresa May is leading the country towards a hard Brexit that nobody voted for". But during the referendum debate both sides made it clear that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market.

    So either the Lib Dems weren't paying attention or they are disguising this a second referendum (which they categorically deny).
    Either way they have lost all credibility in my eyes.

    colin4man

    That's my understanding as well, which is where my confusion with the Lib … That's my understanding as well, which is where my confusion with the Lib Dem literature grows. They seem to be saying no hard Brexit because it's not what people voted for. Even in their own campaign papers Tim Farron is quoted as saying "Theresa May is leading the country towards a hard Brexit that nobody voted for". But during the referendum debate both sides made it clear that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market.So either the Lib Dems weren't paying attention or they are disguising this a second referendum (which they categorically deny).Either way they have lost all credibility in my eyes.



    I consider his view to be 'know your audience' in that respect.
    If the referendum was "Shall we have 'hard brexit', 'soft brexit', or 'no brexit'" he would be completely right, however I'm not sure there are many (potential) Lib Dem voters who wanted 'hard brexit'.

    Edited by: "drasim" 10th May

    It's no longer Liberal Democrats, It's Liberal Demolition as they are demolishing there own party. They have been doing that since the coalition.

    colin4man

    That's my understanding as well, which is where my confusion with the Lib … That's my understanding as well, which is where my confusion with the Lib Dem literature grows. They seem to be saying no hard Brexit because it's not what people voted for. Even in their own campaign papers Tim Farron is quoted as saying "Theresa May is leading the country towards a hard Brexit that nobody voted for". But during the referendum debate both sides made it clear that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market.So either the Lib Dems weren't paying attention or they are disguising this a second referendum (which they categorically deny).Either way they have lost all credibility in my eyes.



    Actually members of both sides were quite flexible about what they meant by leaving Europe and used different models in different discussions.

    I think the issue here is one that's been noticeable for months - people like you who voted for Brexit simply weren't sure what it was you were voting for.

    Original Poster

    HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

    Actually members of both sides were quite flexible about what they meant … Actually members of both sides were quite flexible about what they meant by leaving Europe and used different models in different discussions.I think the issue here is one that's been noticeable for months - people like you who voted for Brexit simply weren't sure what it was you were voting for.



    God bless you govnor for trying to help out us poor unfortunate souls who don't know what we're doin.

    What a lot of people don't seem to realise - and a lot of pro-EU politicians are ignoring (deliberately, IMO) - is that the type of Brexit we have is very much out of our control: it really all depends on the type of deal offered to us by the EU. And I can't remember which EU bureaucrat it was who, in a rare moment of candidness, admitted a couple of months ago that there is only one type of Brexit: hard Brexit. That is very likely to be the reality and both sides will just have to deal with it if that is the case.

    Yet again so much energy is being wasted and angst being created by a complete non-issue. It's neurosis plain and simple and it's really starting to depress me how people seem incapable of accepting and dealing with reality.
    Edited by: "3guesses" 10th May

    colin4man

    God bless you govnor for trying to help out us poor unfortunate souls who … God bless you govnor for trying to help out us poor unfortunate souls who don't know what we're doin.



    Colin, at around 11pm last night when much of the world is getting ready for bed, you had to ask on a shopping forum what 'hard Brexit' meant.

    It's something that pretty much anyone can answer nowadays yet you were so perturbed by your inability to understand it, or Google it, or ask your partner what it meant that you needed to ask a shopping forum.

    Unfortunate soul is a striking choice of words considering.

    Original Poster

    HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

    Colin, at around 11pm last night when much of the world is getting ready … Colin, at around 11pm last night when much of the world is getting ready for bed, you had to ask on a shopping forum what 'hard Brexit' meant. It's something that pretty much anyone can answer nowadays yet you were so perturbed by your inability to understand it, or Google it, or ask your partner what it meant that you needed to ask a shopping forum.Unfortunate soul is a striking choice of words considering.



    Come on HEAWD, you're better than that (I hope for your sake).
    I was asking for a definition of what the Lib Dems term as Hard Brexit as I couldn't find it detailed anywhere in their literature. There are many definitions of Hard Brexit, not just the one you allude to in your reply.

    As for asking on a shopping forum, this is as good a place as any, there seems to be an active (some more than others )community here on Misc with wide ranging views.
    Edited by: "colin4man" 10th May

    colin4man

    Come on HEAWD, you're better than that (I hope for your sake).I was … Come on HEAWD, you're better than that (I hope for your sake).I was asking for a definition of what the Lib Dems term as Hard Brexit as I couldn't find it detailed anywhere in their literature. There are many definitions of Hard Brexit, not just the one you allude to in your reply.As for asking on a shopping forum, this is as good a place as any, there seems to be an active (some more than others community here on Misc with wide ranging views.



    There's literally one definition of 'hard Brexit' with the ramifications down to the negotiations. Again, I'm not sure how anyone paying even a tiny bit of attention could not understand that so whilst you may want to talk down to me, you're the one who had to ask the question.

    Even Googling it gives you the answer. I shouldn't blame you though because modern Brits apparently can't do independent research. You hear about these kids getting into former Polys with second-rate degrees needing to spend the first year teaching them how to do their own research.

    Apologies for not being more considerate.

    Original Poster

    HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

    There's literally one definition of 'hard Brexit' with the ramifications … There's literally one definition of 'hard Brexit' with the ramifications down to the negotiations. Again, I'm not sure how anyone paying even a tiny bit of attention could not understand that so whilst you may want to talk down to me, you're the one who had to ask the question.Even Googling it gives you the answer. I shouldn't blame you though because modern Brits apparently can't do independent research. You hear about these kids getting into former Polys with second-rate degrees needing to spend the first year teaching them how to do their own research.Apologies for not being more considerate.



    While I agree that there is a popular understanding of what people mean by hard Brexit, to then determine that that, in itself, is 'literally one definition of 'hard Brexit'' is not good enough for me. Especially if a political party is using that term to underpin the majority of their election campaigning.

    Oh well I suppose we all have different standards when it comes to independent research.

    colin4man

    While I agree that there is a popular understanding of what people mean … While I agree that there is a popular understanding of what people mean by hard Brexit, to then determine that that, in itself, is 'literally one definition of 'hard Brexit'' is not good enough for me. Especially if a political party is using that term to underpin the majority of their election campaigning.Oh well I suppose we all have different standards when it comes to independent research.



    Hey, why are you hogging all the commas?

    Again, you're simply demonstrating the lack of knowledge that has underpinned not only your decision in the referendum but the subsequent discussion.

    If I point out that you're essentially asking 'Hey guys, um, what did I vote for in that referendum back in June?', then maybe you'll realise that it's probably best to stop.

    But please don't.

    Original Poster

    HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

    Hey, why are you hogging all the commas?Again, you're simply … Hey, why are you hogging all the commas?Again, you're simply demonstrating the lack of knowledge that has underpinned not only your decision in the referendum but the subsequent discussion.If I point out that you're essentially asking 'Hey guys, um, what did I vote for in that referendum back in June?', then maybe you'll realise that it's probably best to stop.But please don't.



    Commas, really is that the level of discussion you're capable of?

    I'm not sure how you equate a lack of clarity from a political party to my lack of knowledge. It seems you've missed the point by some way.

    Please point out your understanding of the discussion as much as you like, it's good entertainment and just enforces your lack of comprehension.

    UKIP (what is left of it) is & always has been the only party that wants BREXIT.
    The public want it/all other political parties do not.

    What does this say for Democracy?

    landros1

    UKIP (what is left of it) is & always has been the only party that wants … UKIP (what is left of it) is & always has been the only party that wants BREXIT.The public want it/all other political parties do not.What does this say for Democracy?



    To be fair, the Conservatives were a bit schizophrenic on this issue 8-)

    kyle1234c

    Exactly - hard brexit is leaving all of the EU's institutions and single … Exactly - hard brexit is leaving all of the EU's institutions and single market. Soft brexit is to retain the single market.Of course, if we crash out of the single market without a deal, then we resort to WTO tariffs which will cripple us.



    The EU has stated a million times already that if we leave the EU we leave the single market. Its not up for debate.
    They are being difficult to negotiate new trade deals with let alone allowing us to remain in the single market.

    fps_d0minat0r

    The EU has stated a million times already that if we leave the EU we … The EU has stated a million times already that if we leave the EU we leave the single market. Its not up for debate.They are being difficult to negotiate new trade deals with let alone allowing us to remain in the single market.



    Regardless of who is treating who meanly (and of course we are the ones who left and the sole job of the EU negotiators is to protect the interests of the remaining 27 countries), crashing out and reverting to WTO tariffs will cripple our businesses.

    Currently 44% of all of our trade is with the EU and we conduct that tariff free. Leaving the single market without a deal means we will instantly pay tariffs; for example 10% on cars. That makes our businesses immediately uncompetitive as they are forced to absorb that extra 10% which business within the EU do not have to pay. Due to the complexity of setting up trade deals with other countries none will be established for many years. Nearly half of our trade begins to suffer. Businesses leave. Our economy becomes crippled. We have less money to spend on nice things like healthcare and education.

    It's depressingly simple. However, it's 'the will of the people.'

    Edited by: "kyle1234c" 16th May

    kyle1234c

    Regardless of who is treating who meanly (and of course we are the ones … Regardless of who is treating who meanly (and of course we are the ones who left and the sole job of the EU negotiators is to protect the interests of the remaining 27 countries), crashing out and reverting to WTO tariffs will cripple our businesses.Currently 44% of all of our trade is with the EU and we conduct that tariff free. Leaving the single market without a deal means we will instantly pay tariffs; for example 10% on cars. That makes our businesses immediately uncompetitive as they are forced to absorb that extra 10% which business within the EU do not have to pay. Due to the complexity of setting up trade deals with other countries none will be established for many years. Nearly half of our trade begins to suffer. Businesses leave. Our economy becomes crippled. We have less money to spend on nice things like healthcare and education.It's depressingly simple. However, it's 'the will of the people.'



    You are assuming that the EU will do a hundred things and Britain will do nothing, and are also forgetting that the EU rules which apply to Britain right now will not exist after brexit.

    If I forgot about those things for a moment, I would be anti-brexit as well.
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