M6 Crash - Lorry driver to be charged.

33
LocalFound 24th May 2017
Five people have been killed in a collision involving a lorry and a car on the M6 in Staffordshire.

Four females and a male, all believed to be adults, in a Nissan Micra died in the crash between junction 15 for Stoke-on-Trent and 14 for Stafford.

The lorry driver, a 60-year-old West Midlands man, has been arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving.

A sixth person is serious but stable following the southbound crash.

bbc.co.uk/new…153
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mrty

I'm a coach driver and all the time I see car drivers putting themselves … I'm a coach driver and all the time I see car drivers putting themselves at risk (I'm not saying this car driver was at fault), I drive a coach weighing 10 tonnes plus, with 45 people on board it then weighs 13 tonnes, so I lasagne a decent breaking distance. On a motorway I feel like I'm going backwards as car drivers drop into that space - reducing the breaking distance and putting themselves at risk. I don't know if the lorry rear ended the car, but surely it is time the police starting handing out tickets for dangerous driving to vehicles that close down a safe breaking distance?I have had several near misses because of this- heavy vehicles can't stop as quickly as a car, sui that gap is there for a purpose!On the other hand, lorries tailgating each other should be an offence too! (fine to reduce drag on second lorry, and increase fuel economy).



Perhaps you need stop measuring your stopping distance in Lasagne's??
frakison

Perhaps you need stop measuring your stopping distance in Lasagne's??



​Oops, typo..but I'm not changing it. Too funny for that. X)
I'm a coach driver and all the time I see car drivers putting themselves at risk (I'm not saying this car driver was at fault), I drive a coach weighing 10 tonnes plus, with 45 people on board it then weighs 13 tonnes, so I lasagne a decent breaking distance. On a motorway I feel like I'm going backwards as car drivers drop into that space - reducing the breaking distance and putting themselves at risk.
I don't know if the lorry rear ended the car, but surely it is time the police starting handing out tickets for dangerous driving to vehicles that close down a safe breaking distance?
I have had several near misses because of this- heavy vehicles can't stop as quickly as a car, sui that gap is there for a purpose!

On the other hand, lorries tailgating each other should be an offence too! (fine to reduce drag on second lorry, and increase fuel economy).
Spare a thought for us poor souls that actually work on the motorway.
That red x, folks seem to think that is their exclusive driving lane, that workforce in road slow down, means, go as fast as you can before they dare to put cones down to repair damage caused by incidents.
Next time you're out n about driving on the motorways spare a thought for us, it's not as sanitised as working in an office, pays well, my choice of career, didn't like working in an office but it's quite a dangerous place to be.
30 Comments
Tragic loss of life on a motorway.

So does anyone think if the lorry driver IS charged and found guilty say for using a mobile or electronic device or fell asleep that the punishment is far too lenient...
Edited by: "Dawsy" 24th May 2017
How do you fit 5 adults into a micra, or was it 6 as another was injusred, could not make out if he was in the car also.
Dawsy

Tragic loss of life on a motorway. So does anyone think if the lorry … Tragic loss of life on a motorway. So does anyone think if the lorry driver IS charged and found guilty say for using a mobile or electronic device or fell asleep that the punishment is far too lenient...


Let's not jump to conclusions just yet... Also would be good to understand how 6 adults fit in to Nissan Micra and if this was contributing factor to the crash...
SusieM

How do you fit 5 adults into a micra, or was it 6 as another was … How do you fit 5 adults into a micra, or was it 6 as another was injusred, could not make out if he was in the car also.


it was 6
I'm a coach driver and all the time I see car drivers putting themselves at risk (I'm not saying this car driver was at fault), I drive a coach weighing 10 tonnes plus, with 45 people on board it then weighs 13 tonnes, so I lasagne a decent breaking distance. On a motorway I feel like I'm going backwards as car drivers drop into that space - reducing the breaking distance and putting themselves at risk.
I don't know if the lorry rear ended the car, but surely it is time the police starting handing out tickets for dangerous driving to vehicles that close down a safe breaking distance?
I have had several near misses because of this- heavy vehicles can't stop as quickly as a car, sui that gap is there for a purpose!

On the other hand, lorries tailgating each other should be an offence too! (fine to reduce drag on second lorry, and increase fuel economy).
mrty

I'm a coach driver and all the time I see car drivers putting themselves … I'm a coach driver and all the time I see car drivers putting themselves at risk (I'm not saying this car driver was at fault), I drive a coach weighing 10 tonnes plus, with 45 people on board it then weighs 13 tonnes, so I lasagne a decent breaking distance. On a motorway I feel like I'm going backwards as car drivers drop into that space - reducing the breaking distance and putting themselves at risk. I don't know if the lorry rear ended the car, but surely it is time the police starting handing out tickets for dangerous driving to vehicles that close down a safe breaking distance?I have had several near misses because of this- heavy vehicles can't stop as quickly as a car, sui that gap is there for a purpose!On the other hand, lorries tailgating each other should be an offence too! (fine to reduce drag on second lorry, and increase fuel economy).



Even in a car or motorcycle this happens regularly, it is ridiculous how many vehicles on the road tailgate and do not leave enough braking distances, and as you say invites idiots to overtake and fill the hazard prevention gaps.
mrty

I'm a coach driver and all the time I see car drivers putting themselves … I'm a coach driver and all the time I see car drivers putting themselves at risk (I'm not saying this car driver was at fault), I drive a coach weighing 10 tonnes plus, with 45 people on board it then weighs 13 tonnes, so I lasagne a decent breaking distance. On a motorway I feel like I'm going backwards as car drivers drop into that space - reducing the breaking distance and putting themselves at risk. I don't know if the lorry rear ended the car, but surely it is time the police starting handing out tickets for dangerous driving to vehicles that close down a safe breaking distance?I have had several near misses because of this- heavy vehicles can't stop as quickly as a car, sui that gap is there for a purpose!On the other hand, lorries tailgating each other should be an offence too! (fine to reduce drag on second lorry, and increase fuel economy).



hgv's tailgating each other is the main problem, along with them reluctant to slow down and drop gears in order to save fuel. Would be better with hgv only lanes.


Edited by: "t_kaay" 24th May 2017
mrty

I'm a coach driver and all the time I see car drivers putting themselves … I'm a coach driver and all the time I see car drivers putting themselves at risk (I'm not saying this car driver was at fault), I drive a coach weighing 10 tonnes plus, with 45 people on board it then weighs 13 tonnes, so I lasagne a decent breaking distance. On a motorway I feel like I'm going backwards as car drivers drop into that space - reducing the breaking distance and putting themselves at risk. I don't know if the lorry rear ended the car, but surely it is time the police starting handing out tickets for dangerous driving to vehicles that close down a safe breaking distance?I have had several near misses because of this- heavy vehicles can't stop as quickly as a car, sui that gap is there for a purpose!On the other hand, lorries tailgating each other should be an offence too! (fine to reduce drag on second lorry, and increase fuel economy).



Perhaps you need stop measuring your stopping distance in Lasagne's??
frakison

Perhaps you need stop measuring your stopping distance in Lasagne's??



​Oops, typo..but I'm not changing it. Too funny for that. X)
people feel way too confident driving on the motorway, stupid manoeuvres and braking distances ignored...its why there are so many 'accidents'
mrty

I'm a coach driver and all the time I see car drivers putting themselves … I'm a coach driver and all the time I see car drivers putting themselves at risk (I'm not saying this car driver was at fault), I drive a coach weighing 10 tonnes plus, with 45 people on board it then weighs 13 tonnes, so I lasagne a decent breaking distance. On a motorway I feel like I'm going backwards as car drivers drop into that space - reducing the breaking distance and putting themselves at risk. I don't know if the lorry rear ended the car, but surely it is time the police starting handing out tickets for dangerous driving to vehicles that close down a safe breaking distance?I have had several near misses because of this- heavy vehicles can't stop as quickly as a car, sui that gap is there for a purpose!On the other hand, lorries tailgating each other should be an offence too! (fine to reduce drag on second lorry, and increase fuel economy).



​yea but at the same time i blame some truck drivers. some drive right up your bum and i find it annoying epically with kids
I'd rather brake in my car than break....personally!
Spare a thought for us poor souls that actually work on the motorway.
That red x, folks seem to think that is their exclusive driving lane, that workforce in road slow down, means, go as fast as you can before they dare to put cones down to repair damage caused by incidents.
Next time you're out n about driving on the motorways spare a thought for us, it's not as sanitised as working in an office, pays well, my choice of career, didn't like working in an office but it's quite a dangerous place to be.
deleted5795924th May 2017

I carbonanra a decent breaking distance personally!


Come on Hari, I thought we were Pasta this joke
whatever the outcome there were not enought seatbelts for 6 people so something has to give.
t_kaay

hgv's tailgating each other is the main problem, along with them … hgv's tailgating each other is the main problem, along with them reluctant to slow down and drop gears in order to save fuel. Would be better with hgv only lanes.



​nothing to do with saving fuel-the drivers dont pay for it. Its to do with them staying on the limiter (of which most lorries are set at the same speed), and using cruise control. Lots of drivers are now "scored" on their effecientcy of using cruise control and reducing harsh braking and hard acceleration.
Edited by: "Rich069" 24th May 2017
Hardly a thread for jokes
Just like in all walks of life there are a few bad hgv drivers, a few bad coach drivers, a few bad car drivers etc etc

I'm still waiting on a PC to contact me on the video evidence I have of a motorbike rider blatantly jumping a red light - they don't seem to be interested. The police are only interested when it's too late it seems. And yes, according to Chief Constable Giles York, the police will act on dashcam/video footage so long as that footage is of good quality (and it seems you have to agree to stand up in court if it goes that far)

I'm all for the police and highways and councils doing more to catch criminals/bad drivers etc but they have'nt got the money/resources. Cuts to council rates and the police force have ensured the police haven't the resources to enforce the law making our roads unsafe. Together with the p**s poor CPS who haven't got the balls we are in deep s**t.

I'm amazed that even 5 people got into a Micra but 6 is clearly an issue and whether it was 6 or 5 both had potential to affect the cars handling but it seems they won't be convicted because they lost their lives (except one lucky soul).

I'm assuming the driver was only arrested as a precaution and to allow the police to gain the right information needed to investigate but if he is partly responsible then how can true justice be served when the other driver, more than likely, was partly responsible but is one of the deceased - that's not fair in my opinion.
Edited by: "philphil61" 24th May 2017
Isn't there quite a big difference between being 'arrested on suspicion', and being 'charged'. I would think any body driving the vehicle that caused the deaths would be arrested as a matter of formality.
Rich069

nothing to do with saving fuel-the drivers dont pay for it. Its to do … nothing to do with saving fuel-the drivers dont pay for it. Its to do with them staying on the limiter (of which most lorries are set at the same speed), and using cruise control. Lots of drivers are now "scored" on their effecientcy of using cruise control and reducing harsh braking and hard acceleration.



Reducing harsh braking and hard acceleration equates to saving fuel, which is what I said.
t_kaay

hgv's tailgating each other is the main problem, along with them … hgv's tailgating each other is the main problem, along with them reluctant to slow down and drop gears in order to save fuel. Would be better with hgv only lanes.



​hgvs are mainly automatics (unless I'm mistaken) most car drivers don't realise lorries cannot go above their limited speed, usually 54-56 mph.
you see stupid car drivers pulling onto motorways and in front of hgvs expecting the driver to slam their brakes on.
why do you think so many lorries now have cameras fitted.
on the motorway today a car pulled off the hard shoulder in front of two lorries in front of me, no indication and traveling about 30 when joining the carriageway, luckily for them the lorry driver didn't slam 18 tonnes into him.
shadey12

hgvs are mainly automatics (unless I'm mistaken) most car drivers don't … hgvs are mainly automatics (unless I'm mistaken) most car drivers don't realise lorries cannot go above their limited speed, usually 54-56 mph.you see stupid car drivers pulling onto motorways and in front of hgvs expecting the driver to slam their brakes on.why do you think so many lorries now have cameras fitted.on the motorway today a car pulled off the hard shoulder in front of two lorries in front of me, no indication and traveling about 30 when joining the carriageway, luckily for them the lorry driver didn't slam 18 tonnes into him.


Questions whether the husband, of the woman who got chatting to me in the Tesco car park, works for a reputable company that uses HGV's. She told me her husband used to have one in his HGV but the company has removed all dashcams from all the cabs.

The after thought was that they've probably removed them either because the company flaunts the law or the drivers are so bad the evidence isn't in their best interest

Very strange company practice?

ps update -re my comment above
just had PC on the phone stating another officer has already viewed the footage and there's no case to investigate but if the video is only 20mb in file size I could email it

2 problems here
1 - nobody but me has seen the footage
2 - if it was only 20mb video what sort of quality would that be

After holding back my foul mouth and struggling to say "I'm ending this call, bye" I'm a little calmer now
iwashere20008 h, 5 m ago

​yea but at the same time i blame some truck drivers. some drive right up …​yea but at the same time i blame some truck drivers. some drive right up your bum and i find it annoying epically with kids



Considering i was forced into the central reservation by another car avoiding a lorry that swerved into the middle lane - i agree with this.
Car and Lorry drivers can be bad drivers in equal doses, but reckless driving by a lorry can certainly result in death of the car driver and occupants. And the amount of times ive seen lorries pull out immediatly in front of cars that are doing 70+ mph, causing the car to swerve into the 3rd land or brake severly to avoid going into the back of it. Shamefull.

mrty8 h, 27 m ago

I'm a coach driver and all the time I see car drivers putting themselves …I'm a coach driver and all the time I see car drivers putting themselves at risk (I'm not saying this car driver was at fault), I drive a coach weighing 10 tonnes plus, with 45 people on board it then weighs 13 tonnes, so I lasagne a decent breaking distance. On a motorway I feel like I'm going backwards as car drivers drop into that space - reducing the breaking distance and putting themselves at risk. I don't know if the lorry rear ended the car, but surely it is time the police starting handing out tickets for dangerous driving to vehicles that close down a safe breaking distance?I have had several near misses because of this- heavy vehicles can't stop as quickly as a car, sui that gap is there for a purpose!On the other hand, lorries tailgating each other should be an offence too! (fine to reduce drag on second lorry, and increase fuel economy).



So why do some lorries choose to tailgate cars in the 50mph roadwork zones?
Its a regular occurence on the M62. Almost to the point of them trying to "bully" the car to move out or speed up above the speed limit.
118luke

Considering i was forced into the central reservation by another car … Considering i was forced into the central reservation by another car avoiding a lorry that swerved into the middle lane - i agree with this.Car and Lorry drivers can be bad drivers in equal doses, but reckless driving by a lorry can certainly result in death of the car driver and occupants. And the amount of times ive seen lorries pull out immediatly in front of cars that are doing 70+ mph, causing the car to swerve into the 3rd land or brake severly to avoid going into the back of it. Shamefull.



​maybe if the car driver is doing 70 in the middle lane he should be watching the distance a lorry is to the one in front and realise the lorry will be overtaking before he is on the side of it.
a car has a choice of 3 lanes and can accelerate much faster and over 56 mph.
how many car drivers sit in the middle lane doing less than 55mph and wonder why lorries are tailgating them.
​I was not jumping to conclusions. Just the only accidents I tend to notice in the news are about mobile phone users in vans or lorrys causing fatalities.

Agree that it's a little strange a small car having 6 passengers.

Would expect the 60 year old lorry driver would know better to do something like that. So as others have said would presume it's an overloaded car moving into the wrong lane and the lorry unable to slow down in time.


Edited by: "Dawsy" 25th May 2017
Dawsy

​I was not jumping to conclusions. Just the only accidents I tend to n … ​I was not jumping to conclusions. Just the only accidents I tend to notice in the news are about mobile phone users in vans or lorrys causing fatalities. Agree that it's a little strange a small car having 6 passengers. Would expect the 60 year old lorry driver would know better to do something like that. So as others have said would presume it's an overloaded car moving into the wrong lane and the lorry unable to slow down in time.



​bit soon to speculate, just a small point, for anyone who travels on the motorway, how many times are you held up by cars who have had a bump compared to lorries.
a high proportion of the time I've been held up by a one or more cars damaged on the hard shoulder waiting to be towed.
when it involves a coach or a hgv it's all over the news, when it's a few cars you only know about it because it holds you up.
boydent999

Spare a thought for us poor souls that actually work on the motorway.That … Spare a thought for us poor souls that actually work on the motorway.That red x, folks seem to think that is their exclusive driving lane, that workforce in road slow down, means, go as fast as you can before they dare to put cones down to repair damage caused by incidents.Next time you're out n about driving on the motorways spare a thought for us, it's not as sanitised as working in an office, pays well, my choice of career, didn't like working in an office but it's quite a dangerous place to be.



I used to work for Siemens on the motorway in the North many years ago... we were constantly in fear of getting whacked .. people must be blind to the flashing lights plastered all over the cars!! and day glow cones. Our one saving grace was the weather!
t_kaay

Reducing harsh braking and hard acceleration equates to saving fuel, … Reducing harsh braking and hard acceleration equates to saving fuel, which is what I said.



agree, ​it does ultimately. The saving of fuel is the benefict of scoring higher. The driver doesnt benefict in any way of fuel saving from the drag reduced though. He could be driving at 5m or 50 m from the vehicle infront-with no difference to his "scoring". Its just poor driving just to avoid the braking then accelerating again.

As for the doubters of responsible hgv companies, from what im seeing (as a part time hgv driver) the companies are becoming a lot more respobsible, and a lot more compliant to the regulations and highway code. The lorries i drive have 5 cameras recording at all times-including 1 inside the cab. Every complaint from other drivers is thoroughly investigated using camera footage.
Edited by: "Rich069" 25th May 2017
shadey1224th May

​maybe if the car driver is doing 70 in the middle lane he should be w …​maybe if the car driver is doing 70 in the middle lane he should be watching the distance a lorry is to the one in front and realise the lorry will be overtaking before he is on the side of it.a car has a choice of 3 lanes and can accelerate much faster and over 56 mph.how many car drivers sit in the middle lane doing less than 55mph and wonder why lorries are tailgating them.


My Incident happened at 5pm (rush hour) on the M60 through the 50mph roadworks - so you can imagine what the traffic was like. The car in the middle lane couldn't move anywhere.
To me, it seemed like the lorry driver wasnt paying attention to stationary traffic that was queuing on the slip road (texting on phone perhaps?) - he must've seen at the last second, swerved to avoid it, forcing the other car into my lane and me into the central reservation. Fitted dash cams since that day now - not risking another one like that happen again!
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