MOT Changes Incoming from 20th May 2018

SuperEd 33
Found 3rd Apr
New MOT changes will be incoming next month - just a heads up

The new requirements come in force in May and has changed how vehicles are classed after a test.

With these changes, as soon as your car fails its MoT it can be deemed "dangerous".

This means if you are caught driving it, you could receive a fine of up to £2,500 and three points on your licence.

In the past, as long as your car was deemed roadworthy, you could keep driving it even after it failed, provided your old MoT was still valid.

And if you've been fined for this in the past three years, it means a ban of at least six months...

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From May, cars will have any faults found placed in one of three categories:

  • dangerous
  • major
  • minor
Minor defects need to be identified and recorded and the car owner will be advised to have them repaired, but you still pass. Any dangerous faults receive an automatic fail.

This would be fairly academic, except for two things.

Firstly "Using a vehicle in a dangerous condition" is an offence, one that carries a fine of £2,500 and three points on your licence the first time you're caught and minimum ban of 6 months if you're caught twice in three years.


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This raises a few questions:-
1) How do consumers avoid being ripped off by garages that make up failures anyway. Some of the sheds and less savoury garages will make a killing out of this.
2) What if you use a council or test only centre? Are you expected to get your car towed home?

Don’t get me wrong. This is not really a new thing. If the police stopped you and there was a valid MOT for say 6 months. If you had a bald tyre or bumper hanging off or something else. They could still label it dangerous.
All that is happening now is that garages can provide the label too.
31 Comments
Glad I never removed my DPF, checks are about to get really strict.

Diesel cars will also have to meet strict new rules to pass their MoT: any car fitted with a diesel particulate filter (DPF) that emits “visible smoke of any colour” during metered tests will get a Major fault, and automatically fail its MoT

MoT testers are also being instructed to check to see if DPFs (Diesel Particulate Filters) have been removed or tampered with, and must refuse to test any car where the “DPF canister has clearly been cut open and re-welded” unless the owner can prove this was done “for legitimate reasons such as filter cleaning.” This last instruction clarifies outgoing MoT rules, which stipulate a car should be rejected only if its DPF is totally missing.
This raises a few questions:-
1) How do consumers avoid being ripped off by garages that make up failures anyway. Some of the sheds and less savoury garages will make a killing out of this.
2) What if you use a council or test only centre? Are you expected to get your car towed home?

Don’t get me wrong. This is not really a new thing. If the police stopped you and there was a valid MOT for say 6 months. If you had a bald tyre or bumper hanging off or something else. They could still label it dangerous.
All that is happening now is that garages can provide the label too.
Thank you for the post

Started looking up what a major fault would be and you can seed the hand of the bureaucrat all over this stuff with a guiding wrist lock by the vested interest parties (garages, parts manufacturers etc).

Some of it is good. Diesel particulate filters (DPF) will now be rigorously checked and if it is found to have been removed or tampered with the car will fail.

A lot is simply going to give garages the excuse to ring up and offer to do unnecessary work vs fail the MOT. Such as, "Brake discs also inspected to see if they are significantly or obviously worn". "obviously worn" starts the day they are fitted. Over 50% of material worn would limit the opportunity to scam folks but that's too specific.
Edited by: "ccnp" 3rd Apr
All this will do is make consumers more exploitable by rogue Garages – Sorry pal, its dangerous, keep driving it and you’ll get stopped, points and a £2.5k fine etc – the ultimate scare tactic.

Another well thought change, rather like the car tax changes last year that resulted in new car sales dropping off at the worst possible time.
Cant wait for the new rules, they benefit me as my car will be exempt under the new 40 year rolling exclusion, although I will either have to get my car done to cover a 13 day period between my MOT expiring and the new rules coming in or keep it off road for that period and use the motorbikes. I will probably do the latter and give the brakes a thorough overhaul (not that its neeeded as such but more for my piece of mind so I all the shoes/pads are new and flush/bleed the fluid) and install disc brakes to the front rather than drums. Get it on the ramps and give it a thorough clean and underseal. In general I will use it as a period for tinkering.

My last car would fail under the new rules as it had a minor oil leak recorded on the last 6 MOT's that didn't seem to be getting worse as it was recorded as an advisory and was literally only visible as it gathered in one place under the new rules it would seem that any oil leak is a fail.

Give me my vintage car any day, less to go wrong, and easier to fix without having to plug it into a PC - although oddly enough the 44 year old car has a diagnostics port from new!
I think half of the cars in uk will have removed dpf filters and that is where it's going to be messy
harlzter22 m ago

Give me my vintage car any day, less to go wrong, and easier to fix …Give me my vintage car any day, less to go wrong, and easier to fix without having to plug it into a PC


For the greater extent, what this means is "easier to ignore faults, harder to diagnose them".

I think people always like to hark back to "better in my day", but excluding the recent premium models, whereby new parts have to be 'coded' as part of a CANBUS network, a lot of criticism aimed at OBD2-style diagnostics is bordered around scaremongering/ignorance. You hear old crusties and technophobes alike saying "Oh these modern things, you need a degree in computers/pay hundreds at the dealer just to find out the problem", when it's absolutely not the case.

I'm absolutely certain that more people have bought OBD2 dongles/apps and use them happily than would ever have attempted, or even know, how to check plug gaps, rectify a flooded carb - or more importantly - suffer with the 20mpg and horrific emissions that used to be "the norm".
Misslovely5 h, 3 m ago

I think half of the cars in uk will have removed dpf filters and that is …I think half of the cars in uk will have removed dpf filters and that is where it's going to be messy



Having re-read the exact rules, that's only a Major and doesn't fail the MoT. But if you have an accident and lack of DPF can be fairly shown as a cause of the accident, then you have a problem. So it's going to be more of "well your brakes are worn a bit Guv" to scare you. And as another poster has already said, you need to read the rules. worn brakes wont be a fail UNLESS the indicator light comes on.

CRASS
BEAUROCRATIC
UNWORKABLE
POMPOUS
SCAMMERS DREAM

Well thought out and planned change can be good. The MoT revisions are neither.
How could a DPF or lack of one be the cause of an accident?

Easiest thing to do is just not buy a car running of devil juice that is killing us all.
richp1 h, 43 m ago

You may want to read this thread as well.



Interesting thread because that thread does not reflect the Govts own information (see below) yet an MOT tester has responded without pointing out that a Major does not cause a car to fail such that it cannot be driven away from the test centre. There we go. CONFUSION ALREADY!

gov.uk/gov…018

the change takes effect on 20th May.
So does anybody know the true Answers to when you can't drive your own car away from the mot garage
1. What if you are a home mechanic and could fix it your self.
2.lots of mot stations only mot and dont fix problems.

Whats the correct answer to this as every single news article about this conflicts information.
chuffedfox9 h, 3 m ago

For the greater extent, what this means is "easier to ignore faults, …For the greater extent, what this means is "easier to ignore faults, harder to diagnose them".I think people always like to hark back to "better in my day", but excluding the recent premium models, whereby new parts have to be 'coded' as part of a CANBUS network, a lot of criticism aimed at OBD2-style diagnostics is bordered around scaremongering/ignorance. You hear old crusties and technophobes alike saying "Oh these modern things, you need a degree in computers/pay hundreds at the dealer just to find out the problem", when it's absolutely not the case.I'm absolutely certain that more people have bought OBD2 dongles/apps and use them happily than would ever have attempted, or even know, how to check plug gaps, rectify a flooded carb - or more importantly - suffer with the 20mpg and horrific emissions that used to be "the norm".



I am used to working on more basic engines and find faults easy to diagnose, everything works or doesn't work, a fairly simple set of tools and you are sorted, the engine if need be can be dropped and installed within an hour each its basic and simple for the everyday man to work on by design as Hitler asked for in his design brief. Why would you want to ignore faults? If you ignore them they progress and get worse, keep on top of them and they are 99% of the time cheap and simple fixes parts are more than plentiful and easy to get with next day delivery there's no reason not to do the work, keep the vehicle in good condition and the value isn't going to go down but up.
harlzter11 m ago

I am used to working on more basic engines and find faults easy to …I am used to working on more basic engines and find faults easy to diagnose, everything works or doesn't work, a fairly simple set of tools and you are sorted, the engine if need be can be dropped and installed within an hour each its basic and simple for the everyday man to work on by design as Hitler asked for in his design brief. Why would you want to ignore faults? If you ignore them they progress and get worse, keep on top of them and they are 99% of the time cheap and simple fixes parts are more than plentiful and easy to get with next day delivery there's no reason not to do the work, keep the vehicle in good condition and the value isn't going to go down but up.



Yes, you can get simple engines - but you'll also be stuck with 50bhp/litre, very little safety and underwhelming fuel economy. If a person looked after a modern car, they wouldn't have issues either. Treat a pre-80s car the same as a new one and it'd last less than 5 years
chuffedfox54 m ago

Yes, you can get simple engines - but you'll also be stuck with …Yes, you can get simple engines - but you'll also be stuck with 50bhp/litre, very little safety and underwhelming fuel economy. If a person looked after a modern car, they wouldn't have issues either. Treat a pre-80s car the same as a new one and it'd last less than 5 years



Who needs more power than that in reality? I can cruise quite happily at motorway speeds. I wouldn't call averaging 35mpg shabby and as for safety yes you can get better i'm not going to argue but as someone used to being on bikes with textile trousers/jacket and foam "armour" between me and a potential impact it still offers me more protection. Shiz happens.
harlzter4 m ago

Who needs more power than that in reality? I can cruise quite happily at …Who needs more power than that in reality? I can cruise quite happily at motorway speeds. I wouldn't call averaging 35mpg shabby and as for safety yes you can get better i'm not going to argue but as someone used to being on bikes with textile trousers/jacket and foam "armour" between me and a potential impact it still offers me more protection. Shiz happens.


I'm guessing you don't travel for anything other than leisure, or live in a relatively flat area.
deleted579593rd Apr

Id advise people to take a copy of the MOT rules with you.. In the past …Id advise people to take a copy of the MOT rules with you.. In the past I've had fails numerous times that were wrong and had to explain on silly things too like, I got a fail on an old car that TPS wasn't working, when the rule was for cars made from a certain year on wards and my car was made before that year.. MOT inspectors can be hard to convince they are wrong so its worth having the rules as a backup. I have had with other bits too.


deleted579593rd Apr

Id advise people to take a copy of the MOT rules with you.. In the past …Id advise people to take a copy of the MOT rules with you.. In the past I've had fails numerous times that were wrong and had to explain on silly things too like, I got a fail on an old car that TPS wasn't working, when the rule was for cars made from a certain year on wards and my car was made before that year.. MOT inspectors can be hard to convince they are wrong so its worth having the rules as a backup. I have had with other bits too.


Not everyone is driving older cars....
larrylightweight13 h, 26 m ago

So does anybody know the true Answers to when you can't drive your own car …So does anybody know the true Answers to when you can't drive your own car away from the mot garage 1. What if you are a home mechanic and could fix it your self.2.lots of mot stations only mot and dont fix problems.Whats the correct answer to this as every single news article about this conflicts information.



if you follow the link I posted, gov.uk/gov…018, it goes to the gov.uk web site I was pointed to by HonestJohn who I regard as being as good a source as I can get.

Trouble is, I did quite a bit of searching (and though I say it myself, I am no slouch at searching and identifying good sources) and didn't find that site. Only another gov.uk site. I did post an error comment to them but hell will have to freeze over before that has any effect I suspect.

The classifications are below. Only 'Dangerous' says you cant drive it away so by definition, you can drive a Major. The argument in favour of this is to go to a garage who have quoted you an acceptable price for the work and so you can check it needs doing.

On the other hand, have a 'Major' related accident and your insurers will not be happy. But I wonder what garage sales staff/owners will say on the phone when they break the bad news

33572756-NIbuq.jpg
Edited by: "ccnp" 4th Apr
I've just issued a dangerous for a tyre worn down to the construction, there is nothing I can do to stop the customer driving thier vehicle away. I can advise them not to, but thier choice at the end of the day.
chuffedfox3rd Apr

For the greater extent, what this means is "easier to ignore faults, …For the greater extent, what this means is "easier to ignore faults, harder to diagnose them".I think people always like to hark back to "better in my day", but excluding the recent premium models, whereby new parts have to be 'coded' as part of a CANBUS network, a lot of criticism aimed at OBD2-style diagnostics is bordered around scaremongering/ignorance. You hear old crusties and technophobes alike saying "Oh these modern things, you need a degree in computers/pay hundreds at the dealer just to find out the problem", when it's absolutely not the case.I'm absolutely certain that more people have bought OBD2 dongles/apps and use them happily than would ever have attempted, or even know, how to check plug gaps, rectify a flooded carb - or more importantly - suffer with the 20mpg and horrific emissions that used to be "the norm".


The problem with many plug in diagnostics, including those used by reputable garages, is that they can be non specific, leaving the mechanic/technician either floundering or reaching for all the parts that could be causing the fault. It doesn't seem to matter how knowledgeable the car owner may be or how well he describes/pinpoints the fault, it'll still be onto the scanner for however long it takes and however much it costs followed by much head scratching.
And you've hit the nail on the head, though not deliberately with the problem associated with DIY plug in diagnostics. Many of the people using them haven't a clue how their car works, but they can push buttons and clear faults. Not a good plan.
chuffedfox18 h, 29 m ago

Yes, you can get simple engines - but you'll also be stuck with …Yes, you can get simple engines - but you'll also be stuck with 50bhp/litre, very little safety and underwhelming fuel economy. If a person looked after a modern car, they wouldn't have issues either. Treat a pre-80s car the same as a new one and it'd last less than 5 years


"Treat a pre-80s car the same as a new one and it'd last less than 5 years" I don't know what's worse. The fact that it's an idiotic sweeping statement or that it's total .
richp6 h, 22 m ago

I've just issued a dangerous for a tyre worn down to the construction, …I've just issued a dangerous for a tyre worn down to the construction, there is nothing I can do to stop the customer driving thier vehicle away. I can advise them not to, but thier choice at the end of the day.


And that's the madness. The car should be held until the police arrive and charge the driver.
harlzter3rd Apr

Cant wait for the new rules, they benefit me as my car will be exempt …Cant wait for the new rules, they benefit me as my car will be exempt under the new 40 year rolling exclusion, although I will either have to get my car done to cover a 13 day period between my MOT expiring and the new rules coming in or keep it off road for that period and use the motorbikes. I will probably do the latter and give the brakes a thorough overhaul (not that its neeeded as such but more for my piece of mind so I all the shoes/pads are new and flush/bleed the fluid) and install disc brakes to the front rather than drums. Get it on the ramps and give it a thorough clean and underseal. In general I will use it as a period for tinkering.My last car would fail under the new rules as it had a minor oil leak recorded on the last 6 MOT's that didn't seem to be getting worse as it was recorded as an advisory and was literally only visible as it gathered in one place under the new rules it would seem that any oil leak is a fail. Give me my vintage car any day, less to go wrong, and easier to fix without having to plug it into a PC - although oddly enough the 44 year old car has a diagnostics port from new!



I've never understood the exemption. I've seen some beautifully maintained old cars, but I've also seen some that were smoke belching rustbuckets. It's cheap motoring for some so it's unlikely they'll pay all that much attention to the safety critical parts of their vehicle.
A dangerous can be issued now and has always been an option. I rarely use it tbh only for something like a brake pipe bursting during testing
qbs4 h, 55 m ago

"Treat a pre-80s car the same as a new one and it'd last less than 5 …"Treat a pre-80s car the same as a new one and it'd last less than 5 years" I don't know what's worse. The fact that it's an idiotic sweeping statement or that it's total .


So you're ignoring the fact that the equivalent of a Focus/Astra/3-Series in the 70's would be rotten after 3 years of barely being washed, and having the bonnet lifted once a year?

You only have to look at the fact that a 2003 plate car is now 15 years old, but isn't near being uncommon or the oldest you'll see around. In 1995, you'd barely (if at all) see a W suffix car, and in 1990 you'd be lucky to find anything from the 70's trotting round the streets unless it had been well cared for.


qbs4 h, 59 m ago

And you've hit the nail on the head, though not deliberately with the …And you've hit the nail on the head, though not deliberately with the problem associated with DIY plug in diagnostics. Many of the people using them haven't a clue how their car works, but they can push buttons and clear faults. Not a good plan.



Which is somehow worse than not even knowing the fault exists in the first place

You've obviously got a chip on your shoulder about modern cars, but you would be raving mad to suggest that a 40 year old car is in any way an improvement on anything modern.
chuffedfox3 h, 1 m ago

So you're ignoring the fact that the equivalent of a Focus/Astra/3-Series …So you're ignoring the fact that the equivalent of a Focus/Astra/3-Series in the 70's would be rotten after 3 years of barely being washed, and having the bonnet lifted once a year? You only have to look at the fact that a 2003 plate car is now 15 years old, but isn't near being uncommon or the oldest you'll see around. In 1995, you'd barely (if at all) see a W suffix car, and in 1990 you'd be lucky to find anything from the 70's trotting round the streets unless it had been well cared for.Which is somehow worse than not even knowing the fault exists in the first place You've obviously got a chip on your shoulder about modern cars, but you would be raving mad to suggest that a 40 year old car is in any way an improvement on anything modern.


Try reading what I said rather than raving.
What you said ""Treat a pre-80s car the same as a new one and it'd last less than 5 years" is total , as anyone who was driving cars at that time will tell you.
To say "the fact that the equivalent of a Focus/Astra/3-Series in the 70's would be rotten after 3 years of barely being washed, and having the bonnet lifted once a year?" confirms you don't know what you're talking about. Astra introduced 1979, 3 series 1975.
Car bodies, for the most part, last longer than their predecessors, but to say cars were dissolving before your eyes in 3 years in the 70s is utter nonsense. British Leyland weren't even that bad.

Fault codes - a total minefield. The basics of cars and engines haven't changed. It's all the monitoring that's been hung on that tends to cause the problems, primarily, faulty sensors. But clearing codes just because you can with the £20 gizmo you bought off ebay isn't the answer. Unless you know exactly what you're doing, you should leave it to somebody that does. You can end up causing more damage than you started with.

The only chips I have with modern cars are the plethora that are embedded in the damn things, and my mechanic (not Ed) agrees with me. Modern cars are great as long as they're working, but as soon as problems arise, so do the bills. It's difficult if not impossible for garages that aren't dealers to access much of the information needed to diagnose faults. Updating software will be dealer only, so you're restricted to the glossy high rate garage that frequently employ numpties with flash titles and little ability, but charge rocket scientist rates.

The greatest feature of older cars in many ways, was that they were owner serviceable and repairable, so a sizeable number of drivers were intimately aware of the condition of their vehicle, how it worked and it's limitations.
Most current drivers haven't got a clue beyond "detailing".
Car salesmen will run if you lift the bonnet and pale if you ask them anything technical, but they'll gush about the entertainment system etc.

"you would be raving mad to suggest that a 40 year old car is in any way an improvement on anything modern"

There are several cars that were made 40 years ago that I would choose over some current cars. I can't recall any car models built 40 years ago that suffered from some of the problems you see with some more modern cars eg going on fire, handbrakes failing etc
Even you will have to accept that complexity comes with a price and the recall systems clearly demonstrate that some manufacturers are better at producing safe reliable cars than others.

In the end, no matter what era you look at, the weakest part of any car is, and has always been, the nut holding the steering wheel.
qbs9 h, 57 m ago

I've never understood the exemption. I've seen some beautifully maintained …I've never understood the exemption. I've seen some beautifully maintained old cars, but I've also seen some that were smoke belching rustbuckets. It's cheap motoring for some so it's unlikely they'll pay all that much attention to the safety critical parts of their vehicle.


Not really cheap motoring, those wanting a cheap run around won't be able to get a classic that runs and drives particularly cheap these days, a non running barn find is high hundreds.

There's plenty of cheap run arounds with a decent length not for a couple of hundred on Facebook. For those wanting cheap motoring.

The real savings for me come into play on insurance and tax but what I save there Will likely go onto the cars maintenance. Mines not concourse condition but it's solid and been well maintained. It just needs a few bits sorting but they are only cosmetic niggles that I can wait to sort as the right bits come up on eBay. The previous owner spent six years with the car off the road doing a lot of restoration on it and spending far more than I bought it for on it. He just wanted it sold as it was upsetting him to see it as a constant reminder he had put time and money into a car he realised was totally unsuitable for driving where he lived in central London as traffic barely crawled and that doesn't suit air cooled engines. He was more concerned that the right buyer bought it who would love and cherish it rather than the money and turned down a couple of people before I bought it, he was a bit of an eccentric character.
harlzter6 h, 42 m ago

Not really cheap motoring, those wanting a cheap run around won't be able …Not really cheap motoring, those wanting a cheap run around won't be able to get a classic that runs and drives particularly cheap these days, a non running barn find is high hundreds. There's plenty of cheap run arounds with a decent length not for a couple of hundred on Facebook. For those wanting cheap motoring. The real savings for me come into play on insurance and tax but what I save there Will likely go onto the cars maintenance. Mines not concourse condition but it's solid and been well maintained. It just needs a few bits sorting but they are only cosmetic niggles that I can wait to sort as the right bits come up on eBay. The previous owner spent six years with the car off the road doing a lot of restoration on it and spending far more than I bought it for on it. He just wanted it sold as it was upsetting him to see it as a constant reminder he had put time and money into a car he realised was totally unsuitable for driving where he lived in central London as traffic barely crawled and that doesn't suit air cooled engines. He was more concerned that the right buyer bought it who would love and cherish it rather than the money and turned down a couple of people before I bought it, he was a bit of an eccentric character.


Agreed. I wasn't meaning all. I see some very well looked after specimens - an immaculate Volvo from the early 70s last week - but it's the falling to bits before your eyes ones that bother me, and should bother the police.
That said, there are plenty of far newer cars running around that shouldn't be on the road. For whatever reason, people running around with broken springs that don't get picked up till MOT time is an increasing problem. There's no excuse for bald tyres yet there are plenty around.
qbs14 h, 47 m ago

Try reading what I said rather than raving. What you said ""Treat a …Try reading what I said rather than raving. What you said ""Treat a pre-80s car the same as a new one and it'd last less than 5 years" is total , as anyone who was driving cars at that time will tell you.


qbs14 h, 47 m ago

To say "the fact that the equivalent of a Focus/Astra/3-Series in the 70's …To say "the fact that the equivalent of a Focus/Astra/3-Series in the 70's would be rotten after 3 years of barely being washed, and having the bonnet lifted once a year?" confirms you don't know what you're talking about.


qbs14 h, 47 m ago

Unless you know exactly what you're doing, you should leave it to somebody …Unless you know exactly what you're doing, you should leave it to somebody that does. You can end up causing more damage than you started with.


qbs14 h, 47 m ago

you're restricted to the glossy high rate garage that frequently employ …you're restricted to the glossy high rate garage that frequently employ numpties with flash titles and little ability, but charge rocket scientist rates


qbs14 h, 47 m ago

Most current drivers haven't got a clue beyond "detailing".

qbs14 h, 47 m ago

Car salesmen will run if you lift the bonnet and pale if you ask them …Car salesmen will run if you lift the bonnet and pale if you ask them anything technical, but they'll gush about the entertainment system etc.



It's not really worth discussing with you - the above is just some extracts of your response, and it is littered with preconceptions, generalisations and otherwise blanket statements that suggest you're inexperience but stubborn in your convictions.

I'm sure you have the best car ever, and all of your decisions in life are justified by how much of an idiot you feel everyone else is
chuffedfox1 h, 57 m ago

It's not really worth discussing with you - the above is just some …It's not really worth discussing with you - the above is just some extracts of your response, and it is littered with preconceptions, generalisations and otherwise blanket statements that suggest you're inexperience but stubborn in your convictions.I'm sure you have the best car ever, and all of your decisions in life are justified by how much of an idiot you feel everyone else is


So no defence, no debate.

Maybe come back when you've got some maturity, knowledge and experience, all of which you're clearly lacking.
qbs18 m ago

So no defence, no debate. Maybe come back when you've got some maturity, …So no defence, no debate. Maybe come back when you've got some maturity, knowledge and experience, all of which you're clearly lacking.


You're talking to someone who has professional qualifications, industry experience and technical ability in the subject.

I, however am not. I'm talking to, quite obviously, a retired technophobe who seems to look down his nose at people who know about things he doesn't like.

"maturity, knowledge and experience" indeed
Edited by: "chuffedfox" 5th Apr
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