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    Murder in the first degree or manslaughter?

    Banned
    I condemn violence wherever it occurs, Palestinian or Israeli, or otherwise, except in self defence. But this shocked me. An incapacitated man lying on the ground is shot dead at point blank range in a "hate" crime. He is caught on video taking a knife and putting it near the executed man after killing him to make it look like it was self defence. His pals around him, doing nothing except egging him on...

    "In Israel, an IDF soldier who was caught on video executing a wounded Palestinian man last March has been convicted of manslaughter. The video shows Palestinian Abdel Fattah al-Sharif, who was reportedly a suspect in a stabbing earlier in the day, lying immobilized on the ground in Hebron in the Israeli-occupied West Bank. The video then appears to show Israeli Sergeant Elor Azaria firing a single shot into the man’s head from a close distance, killing him. Azaria’s conviction today comes as a new report by Defense for Children International says Israeli soldiers killed 32 Palestinian children in the West Bank and East Jerusalem "

    Should this not have been Murder in the first degree? Imo there are no mitigating circumstances. The man is clearly on the ground lying incapacitated with no weapon nearby.

    youtu.be/gB5…1ug

    timesofisrael.com/new…an/

    WARNING AGE RESTRICTED GRAPHIC VIDEO
    youtu.be/ljv…ZvE

    115 Comments

    from that it does look like murder, bloke is on the ground prone, BUT the video doesn't show it all clearly, car in way

    Well look at it from Israeli perspective.

    You kill him. He won't have any more kids.

    That's a result!!

    Gold Medal & hero status to the Sergeant!

    It is a very disturbing video, viewer discretion advised.

    Hard to know the full accurate set of circumstances, but certainly looks like he shoots him for no reason.

    I think you should move the Youtube link from the OP or at least put a warning about the graphic content showing a man being shot in the head (blurred out) and a lot of blood (not blurred out).

    Not our country so none of our business, let them get on with it.

    Build the wall, build the wall.

    donaldduck2

    Not our country so none of our business, let them get on with it.Build … Not our country so none of our business, let them get on with it.Build the wall, build the wall.



    ​And I think DonaldDuck with his Mickey Mouse views confirms what I've just said!

    Its Israel. Let them continue!

    Original Poster Banned

    deeky

    I think you should move the Youtube link from the OP or at least put a … I think you should move the Youtube link from the OP or at least put a warning about the graphic content showing a man being shot in the head (blurred out) and a lot of blood (not blurred out).



    Noted, the first video is not age restricted on YouTube. The second video is. Warning capitalised

    Original Poster Banned

    Guys, there should be no special case made for Palestinians or Israeli's committing acts of murder and caught in the deliberate act of it, on video. It's despicable, just like any terrorist or other act of violence by both sides. Let's hope Trump brings about a much needed peace here. Fingers crossed.

    Gollywood

    Well look at it from Israeli perspective.You kill him. He won't have any … Well look at it from Israeli perspective.You kill him. He won't have any more kids.That's a result!!Gold Medal & hero status to the Sergeant!


    Did they give him a gold medal? No, because they have rule of law.

    Why not provide the Israeli soldiers perspective if you dare?

    (the 'victim' tried to stab a fellow soldier just before this shooting - let me find the smallest violin to play over the death of this lunatic terrorist!, perhaps this terrorist would continue to stab Israelis had he lived.)

    Who weeps for terrorists...their sympathisers - clearly some around.

    The ONLY justification can be if he is suspected of having a bomb vest on and he moves in a way which would imply he is about to detonate it. It's not clear from the video but it certainly looks like murder.

    The Jews or Zionists or Israelis call them what you want have been murdering innocent people in their jealous lust for stealing land since the British soldiers were being murdered there in the 40's - FACT!

    Banned

    davewave

    Did they give him a gold medal? No, because they have rule of law.Why not … Did they give him a gold medal? No, because they have rule of law.Why not provide the Israeli soldiers perspective if you dare? (the 'victim' tried to stab a fellow soldier just before this shooting - let me find the smallest violin to play over the death of this lunatic terrorist!, perhaps this terrorist would continue to stab Israelis had he lived.)Who weeps for terrorists...their sympathisers - clearly some around.



    PMSL

    Now you are disregarding Israels Law & Judicial System (who convicted the soldier) in an attempt to justify your own version of Israel.

    It couldnt get more bizarre

    sowotsdis

    The Jews or Zionists or Israelis call them what you want have been … The Jews or Zionists or Israelis call them what you want have been murdering innocent people in their jealous lust for stealing land since the British soldiers were being murdered there in the 40's - FACT!


    You my friend are a racist bigot.

    Jews / Zionist's and Israeli's are 3 different entities. & your history is missing about 6000 years

    And the Palestinian could have been about to explode a suicide vest ? OK he didn't have one ,but was the Israeli to know that ? The dozens of Palestinian suicide bombers ( and those who send them ) should bear their share of the blame .

    Original Poster Banned

    YouDontWantToKnow

    PMSLNow you are disregarding Israels Law & Judicial System (who convicted … PMSLNow you are disregarding Israels Law & Judicial System (who convicted the soldier) in an attempt to justify your own version of Israel. It couldnt get more bizarre



    I don't agree with the manslaughter verdict. Should be Murder in first degree IMO. Inonctrovertible evidence. Israeli judicial system prejudiced by IDF and not wanting a full Murder conviction precedent being set against them. Pandora's box possibility.

    murder straight up

    Banned

    smiler594

    I don't agree with the manslaughter verdict. Should be Murder in first … I don't agree with the manslaughter verdict. Should be Murder in first degree IMO. Inonctrovertible evidence. Israeli judicial system prejudiced by IDF and not wanting a full Murder conviction precedent being set against them. Pandora's box possibility.




    I know you dont agree with manslaughter but that is what he was convicted of.

    In this country it is highly likely the case wouldnt have gone to court.

    Original Poster Banned

    rogparki

    And the Palestinian could have been about to explode a suicide vest ? OK … And the Palestinian could have been about to explode a suicide vest ? OK he didn't have one ,but was the Israeli to know that ? The dozens of Palestinian suicide bombers ( and those who send them ) should bear their share of the blame .



    Rog, azaria first says he was threatened by the guy who had a knife nearby and he was scared for his life so he shot him. As you know he planted that knife. Azaria then changed his testimony to say he thought he was going to blow himself up. This was thrown out if court because the chap had already been shot, examined while shot by IDF, and they found no explosives on him, so they left him where he was, to "die". It's a full 15 minutes before he is **** in the head by Azaria from when he is "dying" on the ground. I don't think there is any reasonable doubt here.

    Original Poster Banned

    YouDontWantToKnow

    I know you dont agree with manslaughter but that is what he was convicted … I know you dont agree with manslaughter but that is what he was convicted of. In this country it is highly likely the case wouldnt have gone to court.



    Unless you had a video of it and put it on YouTube...

    Has anyone here been in the forces in active front line service in 'live fire' situations?

    Original Poster Banned

    davewave

    Did they give him a gold medal? No, because they have rule of law.Why not … Did they give him a gold medal? No, because they have rule of law.Why not provide the Israeli soldiers perspective if you dare? (the 'victim' tried to stab a fellow soldier just before this shooting - let me find the smallest violin to play over the death of this lunatic terrorist!, perhaps this terrorist would continue to stab Israelis had he lived.)Who weeps for terrorists...their sympathisers - clearly some around.



    Dave, totally get you in that the victim wasn't the nicest guy on Earth. But I don't cheer executions like this as you do. It's plain wrong and the video and the court in Israel found it so.

    Original Poster Banned

    sowotsdis

    The Jews or Zionists or Israelis call them what you want have been … The Jews or Zionists or Israelis call them what you want have been murdering innocent people in their jealous lust for stealing land since the British soldiers were being murdered there in the 40's - FACT!



    That's unfair without also looking at the wider picture. Hamas, Isis, hezbullah are just as bad, if not worse.

    smiler594

    Dave, totally get you in that the victim wasn't the nicest guy on Earth. … Dave, totally get you in that the victim wasn't the nicest guy on Earth. But I don't cheer executions like this as you do. It's plain wrong and the video and the court in Israel found it so.


    Did I cheer, no.

    The soldier was tried just like he would be in the West.

    Unlike the families of Palestinians who are rewarded by Hamas when they stab random Israelis or drive vehicles into crowds of Israelis (irrespective of whether the murdered are Arab, Foreign, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Druze, without faith, etc etc).

    rogparki

    And the Palestinian could have been about to explode a suicide vest ? OK … And the Palestinian could have been about to explode a suicide vest ? OK he didn't have one ,but was the Israeli to know that ? The dozens of Palestinian suicide bombers ( and those who send them ) should bear their share of the blame .



    ​He could've had one. Better to be safe than sorry. And it works if you place life of Palestinian below everyone else!

    Original Poster Banned

    smiler594

    That's unfair without also looking at the wider picture. Hamas, Isis, … That's unfair without also looking at the wider picture. Hamas, Isis, hezbullah are just as bad, if not worse.



    Dave, I condemn the "celebrity" status given to any terrorist or suicide bomber whether he's Israeli or Palestinian or otherwise. But look at this incident, just as it is for a moment, forget the Palestine vs Israel issue, and ask yourself, after watching the video and knowing 15 minutes elapsed after the man had been left shot to bleed out to dry, if he then deserved to be executed like that? He probably would have died anyway. This was purely a "Hate Crime". First degree murder imo.

    Original Poster Banned

    Gollywood

    ​He could've had one. Better to be safe than sorry. And it works if you p … ​He could've had one. Better to be safe than sorry. And it works if you place life of Palestinian below everyone else!



    Gollywood, you can hate terrorism wherever it occurs in the world, and I'll always denounce it with you. But to say lives based on on race are more important than another is just repeating Hitler's rhetoric. I know you are better than that.

    what he did was completely unacceptable so I think they should throw the book at him...6 months suspended sentence & 100 hours community service
    http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/3188396/trolololol-o.gif

    Original Poster Banned

    DarkEnergy2012

    what he did was completely unacceptable so I think they should throw the … what he did was completely unacceptable so I think they should throw the book at him...6 months suspended sentence & 100 hours community service



    I take it you're pro manslaughter then?

    Original Poster Banned

    kingk123

    murder straight up



    Finally, one person who agrees with me

    smiler594

    Dave, I condemn the "celebrity" status given to any terrorist or suicide … Dave, I condemn the "celebrity" status given to any terrorist or suicide bomber whether he's Israeli or Palestinian or otherwise. But look at this incident, just as it is for a moment, forget the Palestine vs Israel issue, and ask yourself, after watching the video and knowing 15 minutes elapsed after the man had been left shot to bleed out to dry, if he then deserved to be executed like that? He probably would have died anyway. This was purely a "Hate Crime". First degree murder imo.


    No, I do not.
    Hence a trial.
    Perhaps Hamas could try murderers rather than incite and reward them, if they really want peace.

    Also people who stab soldiers aren't heroes in my eyes.

    Do you recall the soldier, Lee Rigby, who was killed in the UK - did you feel sympathy for Lee Rigby's murderers who were killed by police when they charged?

    This Palestinian terrorist had already attacked soldiers with a knife, hardly a model citizen.

    that's what the judges have decided, if I remember correctly it was downgraded from "summary execution" as it was a military incident, therefore a murder charge was never an option

    smiler594

    I take it you're pro manslaughter then?

    No this is not murder it is a slow genocide of the people of Palestine robbed of their homes. livelihoods and now their lives
    To those who always vomit up Hamas remember they did not exist before Israel's creation
    But my dumb comment award goes to the usual mob lying to once again justify the unjustifiable murderous state that has caused so much misery - you must know nobody believes you any more don't you?

    Edited by: "sowotsdis" 4th Jan

    Banned

    davewave

    No, I do not. Hence a trial.Perhaps Hamas could try murderers rather than … No, I do not. Hence a trial.Perhaps Hamas could try murderers rather than incite and reward them, if they really want peace.Also people who stab soldiers aren't heroes in my eyes.Do you recall the soldier, Lee Rigby, who was killed in the UK - did you feel sympathy for Lee Rigby's murderers who were killed by police when they charged?This Palestinian terrorist had already attacked soldiers with a knife, hardly a model citizen.



    You didnt even read the story before you jumped in to the defence of all things Jewish.

    Hence you would have read he was convicted & wouldnt have made a little bit of a fool of yourself.

    Original Poster Banned

    davewave

    No, I do not. Hence a trial.Perhaps Hamas could try murderers rather than … No, I do not. Hence a trial.Perhaps Hamas could try murderers rather than incite and reward them, if they really want peace.Also people who stab soldiers aren't heroes in my eyes.Do you recall the soldier, Lee Rigby, who was killed in the UK - did you feel sympathy for Lee Rigby's murderers who were killed by police when they charged?This Palestinian terrorist had already attacked soldiers with a knife, hardly a model citizen.



    Hamas first needs to recognise Israel's right to exist. Hence the need and urgency for a negotiated settlement.

    Agreed, and to take it one step further, people who stab anyone aren't heroes, except if they do it in self defence, clearly not the case here!

    Lee Rigby was senselessly killed by nutters. No sympathy for the killers here.

    Agreed, not a model citizen, but with the guy incapacitated lying bleeding to death anyway on the floor for a full 15 minutes, means Azaria pointing a gun to his then defenceless head and pulling the trigger was a completely senseless pre-meditated act of murder fuelled by hate. No justification. No mitigating circumstances. Murder one!

    davewave

    Do you recall the soldier, Lee Rigby, who was killed in the UK - did you … Do you recall the soldier, Lee Rigby, who was killed in the UK - did you feel sympathy for Lee Rigby's murderers who were killed by police when they charged?


    But Lee Rigby's murderers weren't killed by the police?

    Original Poster Banned

    RonChew

    But Lee Rigby's murderers weren't killed by the police?



    Ron, think Dave asked about my sympathy for lee rigby's killers, not if they were killed by police. Answered that one. Killers were hate filled nutters. No sympathy.

    RonChew

    But Lee Rigby's murderers weren't killed by the police?


    True, do you agree that ideally the terrorist should have been tried or do you think he should have been allowed to continue stabbing Israelis?
    Do you think its tough being a 19 year old soldier coming face to face with a terrorist who has tried to kill his colleagues.
    This soldier was tried, how do you feel Hamas should treat Palestinians who kill random Israelis?.

    YouDontWantToKnow

    You didnt even read the story before you jumped in to the defence of all … You didnt even read the story before you jumped in to the defence of all things Jewish. Hence you would have read he was convicted & wouldnt have made a little bit of a fool of yourself.


    Yes and No.

    smiler594

    Ron, think Dave asked about my sympathy for lee rigby's killers, not if … Ron, think Dave asked about my sympathy for lee rigby's killers, not if they were killed by police. Answered that one. Killers were hate filled nutters. No sympathy.


    Possibly. Though why dave would choose to bring up Lee Rigby in a thread about an Israeli soldier killing a terrorist is not entirely obvious.

    For what it's worth, I agree with you that the youtube footage makes it look more like murder than manslaughter.

    sowotsdis

    No this is not murder it is a slow genocide of the people of Palestine … No this is not murder it is a slow genocide of the people of Palestine robbed of their homes. livelihoods and now their livesTo those who always vomit up Hamas remember they did not exist before Israel's creationBut my dumb comment award goes to the usual mob lying to once again justify the unjustifiable murderous state that has caused so much misery - you must know nobody believes you any more don't you?


    only counting the deaths of Palestinians is muddled thinking, people who fire rockets at Israel and stab children in their bedrooms must be counted. Anyone who picks a fight can expect a punch, whether its against Israel or not.
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