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Need a bit of help with tax.

24
Found 9th Jan
I worked from 17-19ish and had a bit saved up. Having since left that job, approx last year I've been selling coins for a game (a bit like fifa). I've only made about £2-3K max which can be evidenced by my bank statements, but how can I go about declaring this kind of stuff?

I've never done a self assessment myself and a bit confused. I know it falls under the personal allowance but still needs to be declared.

thanks
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First off, congrats for showing flair and making some money for yourself outside of a job.

Based on the post, I'm not sure if you have actually been nobbled for Self Assessment. If yes, then call HMRC and explain. They can be very helpful to people who need help as opposed to avoiding paying tax. They will tell you where to put the income and help with claiming expenses (you have a PC and Broadband presumably as well as bank charges).

You may not be due to pay income tax. You can earn £11,500pa before paying anything. Nor do you look to have a Capital Gains liability which this might just be viewed as (£11,200 is the tax free limit I think).

£2-3k is well below either. It is also well below the NI threshhold which is lower than for Income tax.

However, the post lacks detail about your full earnings as an employee and/or Sole Trader. If you can't get help and haven't been given a self assessment form, but want to be absolutely certain, give HMRC a call. You will find them surprisingly helpful. Even if it does take a while to get through.

(No, i'm not a tax inspector. I have just had quite good dealings with HMRC)
ccnp11 m ago

First off, congrats for showing flair and making some money for yourself …First off, congrats for showing flair and making some money for yourself outside of a job.Based on the post, I'm not sure if you have actually been nobbled for Self Assessment. If yes, then call HMRC and explain. They can be very helpful to people who need help as opposed to avoiding paying tax. They will tell you where to put the income and help with claiming expenses (you have a PC and Broadband presumably as well as bank charges).You may not be due to pay income tax. You can earn £11,500pa before paying anything. Nor do you look to have a Capital Gains liability which this might just be viewed as (£11,200 is the tax free limit I think). £2-3k is well below either. It is also well below the NI threshhold which is lower than for Income tax.However, the post lacks detail about your full earnings as an employee and/or Sole Trader. If you can't get help and haven't been given a self assessment form, but want to be absolutely certain, give HMRC a call. You will find them surprisingly helpful. Even if it does take a while to get through.(No, i'm not a tax inspector. I have just had quite good dealings with HMRC)


Sorry i should add, I've been unemployed for the past yr while I have been doing this. So like in Nov or Dec 2016 I had about £200-400 max from my last job which I used as savings. Around that time i learnt about coin selling and have been doing that up until now. Just glimpsing over my bank statements I don't think I've made more than £4000-5000 in that entire period. Must be less. I had no other income apart from that (I sold a few bits n bobs on eBay if that amounts to anything, not as a form of profiting or business though).

I was pretty ignorant on tax rules, I knew there was a personal allowance but didn't know it had to be declared lol, silly of me. But having read on recently about bitcoins, I figured I should get it sorted asap. I haven't been asked to do it by HMRC yet.

So should i just try get everything doen on the phone or try do it online. I really feel like im missing something and probably gonna get fined for leaving it completely up until now. Like i never really considered it as self employment, more so just playing the game for the most part.
You are earning below the tax threshold, there is no need to fill out a Self Assessment...
Splodger10125 m ago

You are earning below the tax threshold, there is no need to fill out a …You are earning below the tax threshold, there is no need to fill out a Self Assessment...


yeah but doesnt it still need to be declared so there arent any gaps on my NI?
Edited by: "FUAARRKK" 9th Jan
FUAARRKK21 m ago

yeah but doesnt it still need to be declared so there arent any gaps on my …yeah but doesnt it still need to be declared so there arent any gaps on my NI?


Are you claiming any benefits? If so these will count toward your tax allowance so it is your total income that counts to what tax is due. Also - if so your NI will be accounted for during this period.
Splodger10131 m ago

You are earning below the tax threshold, there is no need to fill out a …You are earning below the tax threshold, there is no need to fill out a Self Assessment...


Depends if the op is claiming benefits though
Van19734 m ago

Are you claiming any benefits? If so these will count toward your tax …Are you claiming any benefits? If so these will count toward your tax allowance so it is your total income that counts to what tax is due. Also - if so your NI will be accounted for during this period.


Nope im not claiming anything at all. I did apply for the nhs h5c certificate for dental treatment if that counts?
So I believe no tax will be due. You will need to seek advice re. your NI - not sure how you are treated - I guess no accrual??

Worth keeping records of all of your expenses (receipts etc) - so if in future you do exceed the tax allowance threshold you can reduce your liability by correctly deducting all of your costs.
Van19733 m ago

So I believe no tax will be due. You will need to seek advice re. your …So I believe no tax will be due. You will need to seek advice re. your NI - not sure how you are treated - I guess no accrual??Worth keeping records of all of your expenses (receipts etc) - so if in future you do exceed the tax allowance threshold you can reduce your liability by correctly deducting all of your costs.


Well i've received payments for everyone of the coin sales in my bank. I have everything clear in my bank statement since I didn't recieve payments via any other method. But I can't establish the quantities of the coins I sold, their value at the time or who I sold them too since the trades were conducted via Skype and the conversations were deleted after sometime.

What do I do in that case? And as of right now, which forms do I need to fill. The HMRC live chat agent said I need to firstly declare as self employed?
I think this depends on whether you consider this income is going to grow and become your 'job'. If no, I'd not be very concerned about 1 years gap in NI contributions. If yes, then you would need to do a self assessment and also pay Class 2 and/or 4 NI contributions as a self employed person. Class2 is a flat rate and 4 is a % of profit. If you are earning less than about 6k, you can elect not to pay either. As said above, at the moment you are under your personal tax allowance, so would not have any tax to pay either.
If you are very concerned about your NI record, you could sign on as unemployed and your record would be credited.
airbus3306 m ago

I think this depends on whether you consider this income is going to grow …I think this depends on whether you consider this income is going to grow and become your 'job'. If no, I'd not be very concerned about 1 years gap in NI contributions. If yes, then you would need to do a self assessment and also pay Class 2 and/or 4 NI contributions as a self employed person. Class2 is a flat rate and 4 is a % of profit. If you are earning less than about 6k, you can elect not to pay either. As said above, at the moment you are under your personal tax allowance, so would not have any tax to pay either.If you are very concerned about your NI record, you could sign on as unemployed and your record would be credited.


No i'm not really considering make it a full on business, but whatever ive earnt from it i'd rather have it declared properly. I'm currently thinking of going back into education so until then I suppose im doing this to get by (while still living at home). But i dont want to mess up anything along the way hence why im getting a bit concerned about what I need to do. Either way I'll pay whatever I really have to pay.
You would go online and complete a for SA400 or SA401, I forget which. This registers you for self assessment and they send you a unique tax reference. If your self assessment started in the 12 months before 5/4/17 you have until the end of the month to lodge a tax return.

Once you get your UTR, you register on the government gateway, just Google this. This gateway allows you to put your self employment income and expenses in, along with anything else.

As above, you are eating less than the tax free personal allowance and you seem to have no other income in the years, so likely no tax or class 4 national insurance.

On lodging your return through the gateway, you can volunteer to pay class 2 national insurance which would give you a year towards your state pension. This would be a payment of £146.50 pro-rata for a full years self employment.

As mentioned above, you are trading so you are liable to declare your earnings for self assessment. As you are trading, this is not a capital gains tax transaction.

Its all pretty easy but if your trading started before 5/4/17 you'd better get a move on as you only have 21 days.

HMRC advise it takes around 10 working days for them to issue a UTR. Your tax return will just take a half hour to process if u have ok records.
Splodger1013 h, 42 m ago

You are earning below the tax threshold, there is no need to fill out a …You are earning below the tax threshold, there is no need to fill out a Self Assessment...


this is wrong advice. even if there is no tax to pay, you must still declare your income or gain and let HMRC tell you there is no tax to pay. you can not make your own decision that there is no tax to pay, even if it is clear that this is the case.

OP - call HMRC as it is clear that there is no tax to pay but you want them to confirm that you do not have to complete self assessment. Explain to them and ask them if they need you to do self assessment. If they say, don't worry about it, then keep a record of the person's name that you spoke to and the date and time of your conversation so if any enquiry comes in the future.

If you do not declare your income and just keep quiet and they find out, there can be severe penalty and they can start to investigate you if they think there are other things that you are not telling them. Just keep it simple and check with them direct rather than make any assumptions about what you can do yourself.
mutley143 m ago

this is wrong advice. even if there is no tax to pay, you must still …this is wrong advice. even if there is no tax to pay, you must still declare your income or gain and let HMRC tell you there is no tax to pay. you can not make your own decision that there is no tax to pay, even if it is clear that this is the case.OP - call HMRC as it is clear that there is no tax to pay but you want them to confirm that you do not have to complete self assessment. Explain to them and ask them if they need you to do self assessment. If they say, don't worry about it, then keep a record of the person's name that you spoke to and the date and time of your conversation so if any enquiry comes in the future.If you do not declare your income and just keep quiet and they find out, there can be severe penalty and they can start to investigate you if they think there are other things that you are not telling them. Just keep it simple and check with them direct rather than make any assumptions about what you can do yourself.


yeah i definitely dont want to not declare and do it correctly. Im just worried about that fact that I actually started this coin selling in about Dec 2016-Jan 2017 period. Will they fine me for being this late? I left my job in about Aug 2016 time and between Aug Dec I was just living off whatever savings I had.
Edited by: "FUAARRKK" 9th Jan
FUAARRKK1 h, 27 m ago

yeah i definitely dont want to not declare and do it correctly. Im just …yeah i definitely dont want to not declare and do it correctly. Im just worried about that fact that I actually started this coin selling in about Dec 2016-Jan 2017 period. Will they fine me for being this late? I left my job in about Aug 2016 time and between Aug Dec I was just living off whatever savings I had.


The deadline for tax return to be submitted (and payment made)is 31.01.2018 to cover the period 06.04.2016 to 05.04.2017 so if you submit your return online by end of this month, you will not receive any penalty. Any later, there will be an automatic penalty, then further penalty if you continue to delay or keep quiet.

The automatic penalty is not much, something like around £100, but my memory fails me on the exact amount. Needless to say, I have had to pay this in the past, and more. Ouch.

My husband ended up paying about £10k in penalty because he was so lazy at doing his return, the penalty kept mounting up until hmrc was going to send the bailiffs round if he didnt get off his arse and do his tax return!

i had missed one of your post earlier about live chat saying you need to do self assessment and declare earnings as self employment. That means you will need to complete a return online.

go to hmrc website and register to do self assessment, then complete the return online. If your earnings are simple, the return will be easy to do as it will only generate tax forms that you need to complete where you have answered yes to having earnings or capital gains.
FUAARRKK1 h, 42 m ago

yeah i definitely dont want to not declare and do it correctly. Im just …yeah i definitely dont want to not declare and do it correctly. Im just worried about that fact that I actually started this coin selling in about Dec 2016-Jan 2017 period. Will they fine me for being this late? I left my job in about Aug 2016 time and between Aug Dec I was just living off whatever savings I had.



I admire your honesty, even though I think it may make life unnecessarily complicated and as we have already established, no tax is due.. The tax year runs April to March, with a latest submission of an ONLINE self assessment on the 31 Jan of the following year. So that is in 21 days time. If you are due to make a submission and fail to do so on time, there is an automatic fine of around £100, which can be appealed against for extenuating circumstances. You really need to contact HMRC by phone ASAP and get advice as the set up requirements to access HMRC online takes a little time to set up. If it were me, I'd be inclined to get all you HMRC ducks in a row for the next tax year 17-18, get your head round what actually needs to be done to account for the money you are earning and go from there. But, of course, that is only what I would do. :-)
I am speaking from experience as my wife started a business where no tax was due for several years, but I still had to do her self assesment each year.
mutley136 m ago

The deadline for tax return to be submitted (and payment made)is …The deadline for tax return to be submitted (and payment made)is 31.01.2018 to cover the period 06.04.2016 to 05.04.2017 so if you submit your return online by end of this month, you will not receive any penalty. Any later, there will be an automatic penalty, then further penalty if you continue to delay or keep quiet.The automatic penalty is not much, something like around £100, but my memory fails me on the exact amount. Needless to say, I have had to pay this in the past, and more. Ouch.My husband ended up paying about £10k in penalty because he was so lazy at doing his return, the penalty kept mounting up until hmrc was going to send the bailiffs round if he didnt get off his arse and do his tax return!i had missed one of your post earlier about live chat saying you need to do self assessment and declare earnings as self employment. That means you will need to complete a return online.go to hmrc website and register to do self assessment, then complete the return online. If your earnings are simple, the return will be easy to do as it will only generate tax forms that you need to complete where you have answered yes to having earnings or capital gains.


yeh i got that, but I mean the portion where I starded doing this in Dec 2016 til April 2017. What will I need to do or say in regards to that?

airbus33021 m ago

I admire your honesty, even though I think it may make life unnecessarily …I admire your honesty, even though I think it may make life unnecessarily complicated and as we have already established, no tax is due.. The tax year runs April to March, with a latest submission of an ONLINE self assessment on the 31 Jan of the following year. So that is in 21 days time. If you are due to make a submission and fail to do so on time, there is an automatic fine of around £100, which can be appealed against for extenuating circumstances. You really need to contact HMRC by phone ASAP and get advice as the set up requirements to access HMRC online takes a little time to set up. If it were me, I'd be inclined to get all you HMRC ducks in a row for the next tax year 17-18, get your head round what actually needs to be done to account for the money you are earning and go from there. But, of course, that is only what I would do. :-)I am speaking from experience as my wife started a business where no tax was due for several years, but I still had to do her self assesment each year.



to be fair i cant get my head around this, so I probably will just call up. I just fear being told that you missed this and this and thus you are fined XXX. I only have about £2K to my name lol
FUAARRKK25 m ago

yeh i got that, but I mean the portion where I starded doing this in Dec …yeh i got that, but I mean the portion where I starded doing this in Dec 2016 til April 2017. What will I need to do or say in regards to that?


That falls into the tax period that you need to complete as self employment by the end of this month. You need to register on hmrc website for self assessment before you can complete the forms online and submit them. You need to do this before the end of this month.
oh crap indeed it does, so April 2016 to April 2017. Got it
FUAARRKK9 h, 35 m ago

yeah i definitely dont want to not declare and do it correctly. Im just …yeah i definitely dont want to not declare and do it correctly. Im just worried about that fact that I actually started this coin selling in about Dec 2016-Jan 2017 period. Will they fine me for being this late? I left my job in about Aug 2016 time and between Aug Dec I was just living off whatever savings I had.


FUAARRKK9 h, 35 m ago

yeah i definitely dont want to not declare and do it correctly. Im just …yeah i definitely dont want to not declare and do it correctly. Im just worried about that fact that I actually started this coin selling in about Dec 2016-Jan 2017 period. Will they fine me for being this late? I left my job in about Aug 2016 time and between Aug Dec I was just living off whatever savings I had.


Lodge the forms to issue a UTR today, as per my post above, or you will be struggling to avoid a penalty.

Penalties are £100 initial, then £10 a day for 3 months from 1 march I believe.
ibblackberry111 h, 7 m ago

Lodge the forms to issue a UTR today, as per my post above, or you will be …Lodge the forms to issue a UTR today, as per my post above, or you will be struggling to avoid a penalty.Penalties are £100 initial, then £10 a day for 3 months from 1 march I believe.


ive requested one, today. They said monday will be the earliest id get it.
They have bigger fish to fry. Use your coins and enjoy your youth; worrying about tax for this amount is silly
peanuted2 h, 15 m ago

They have bigger fish to fry. Use your coins and enjoy your youth; …They have bigger fish to fry. Use your coins and enjoy your youth; worrying about tax for this amount is silly


Ive phoned n requested that code for self assessment so too late i suppose.
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