Need help/opinion with Boiler quote and some plumbing work

12
Found 12th Sep 2017
HI there, This is a bit of a long one but I do appreciate any help or feedback if you are able to offer any! I'd like to thank you in advance for taking the time to read this!!


We have recently been thinking of getting a new boiler to replace our current very old floor-standing boiler. It is for a 2 Bed, 1 bathroom semi detached, with 6 radiators.

I asked a plumber to give us a quote on the following items:

*** Replace our old boiler ( we are keeping the hot water cylinder as it is in good condition, it is boiler only that requires a change ) with a standard boiler to replace the current one now. This is to serve a hot water tank and also the heating to the property which is done via gas mains, the pipe currently is also 22mm. ( Our current setup is a hot water cylinder, gas boiler, cold water tank in the loft. )

The boiler is being moved onto a wall approx total distance = 1.5 mtr to 2 mtrs from its current location ( basically above and a little to the right ). It is currently a floor standing boiler. The wall it will be situated on is not an outside wall so they will run the vent and drainage to the nearest outside wall via appropriate pipes, the total distance is around (2 mtrs horizontal again ). A soak-away will be dug and this is where the pipe will discharge to.

To keep in with the warranty of a new boiler it is also requiring a power flush to our system, and the fitment of a magnetic cleaner/filter.


Also to do is :


*** Replacing the main stop cock into the house, it seems to have a slight weep from the handle when you shut if off completely.

*** Fit a smaller but taller double panel type 22 radiator in the hallway. This will require going from a 750x500mm to 600x800mm.

*** Fix the T-Joint on the upstairs radiator, it also has a slight weep even after tightening. ( possibly needs a new olive, but its looking a bit crap so i'd rather just fit a new one).

*** Replace the 3-way valve that selects between the hot water only, heating only or combined. ( with this he also suggested changing the pump as we will have system drained down anyway and to avoid any issues that could come from pump failing as we do not know how old it is ( looks fairly old ).


---- Below is the quote and breakdown they gave, I am looking for some help as to whether this is a good price for the work above or if you feel that it is somewhat expensive, also I felt that some of the items are duplicated, for example supplying appropriate pipework, then also relisting as supply gas pipe and hot and cold pipe ( these sound the same to me ). ---


WORKS TO INCLUDE:

Remove existing boiler Power flush existing pipe work and radiators to remove scale and sludge build up. Supply inhibitor to system

Supply and fit new Ideal Logic Plus Heat Only 15kw Boiler High Efficiency Boiler (Manufacturers guarantee for 7 years)

Supply and fit new standard horizontal flue

Supply and fit new flue extensions x 2

Supply and fit new central heating pump with valves

Supply and fit new three port valve

Supply and fit new 600 x 800 double panelled convector radiator

Supply and fit new lock shield valves x 3

Supply and fit all associated central heating pipe work

Supply and fit new domestic hot and cold water pipe

Supply and fit new 22mm gas run to boiler

Supply and fit new 1¼ “condense pipe to exterior drain using soakaway

Supply and fit magna clean

Supply and fit electrics to boiler

Fill, test and commission new system adding inhibitor

Supply and fit new mains lever shut off valve

Clear site of all debris

TOTAL £2055.00

VAT £ 411.00 TOTAL £2466.00
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12 Comments
Why not have a combi condenser boiler ? Do away with the hot water tank and free up some space . The new boiler does not require a powerflush for the warranty (though it is advisable) a drain , flush and inhibitor is all that is required for the warranty . Not sure about the boiler - when I had mine changed (2 years ago) the Vaillant or Worcester Bosch though a bit more expensive were the ones to have (Ideal, though cheaper did not come too high on all the reviews I read ) .

The quote doesn't seem too bad but I'd upgrade to a Worcester Bosch or Vaillant condenser combi for probably an extra £100 to £200 , maybe wont be that much extra as a combi boiler normally requires less pipework and doesn't need a 3 way valve ,its inside the boiler already , depending on your current installation . a combi boiler could be a much cheaper fit and the only difference you'll notice is much cheaper bills , as you won't have a tank full of hot water sitting there wasting energy .
Edited by: "rogparki" 12th Sep 2017
The ideal is easily on par with a Vaillant, and better than a Worcester.

I wouldn't be in a rush to 'upgrade' to a combi, plenty of benefits to stored hot water and a heat only boiler.

Quote seems reasonable, if you find a non VAT registered installer you might save a couple of hundred pounds.
themorgatron34 m ago

The ideal is easily on par with a Vaillant, and better than a Worcester. I …The ideal is easily on par with a Vaillant, and better than a Worcester. I wouldn't be in a rush to 'upgrade' to a combi, plenty of benefits to stored hot water and a heat only boiler. Quote seems reasonable, if you find a non VAT registered installer you might save a couple of hundred pounds.



Sorry , how will using a Non VAT registered , Gas safe (required of course ) installer fulfil the warranty requirement ? I doubt there are any non Vat registered Gas safe (previously Corgi) installers around !

So we can also take your boiler recommendations ! with a pinch of salt Please engage brain in future before posting ridiculous suggestions in response to a serious question asked by the poster .

Why do some members comment on subjects they patently know nothing about ? It only makes them look silly and does not help the poster one iota .
Edited by: "rogparki" 12th Sep 2017
rogparki58 m ago

Why not have a combi condenser boiler ? Do away with the hot water tank …Why not have a combi condenser boiler ? Do away with the hot water tank and free up some space . The new boiler does not require a powerflush for the warranty (though it is advisable) a drain , flush and inhibitor is all that is required for the warranty . Not sure about the boiler - when I had mine changed (2 years ago) the Vaillant or Worcester Bosch though a bit more expensive were the ones to have (Ideal, though cheaper did not come too high on all the reviews I read ) .The quote doesn't seem too bad but I'd upgrade to a Worcester Bosch or Vaillant condenser combi for probably an extra £100 to £200 , maybe wont be that much extra as a combi boiler normally requires less pipework and doesn't need a 3 way valve ,its inside the boiler already , depending on your current installation . a combi boiler could be a much cheaper fit and the only difference you'll notice is much cheaper bills , as you won't have a tank full of hot water sitting there wasting energy .

Agree with Worcester, make sure you get a good warranty!
Original Poster
HI thank you for the feedback so far, We generally find the hot water tank setup is suitable to us as we do most of our hot water in the evening, we can set it to get this heated up prior to the heating coming on when were home from work. Plus, the hot water on demand i have heard/found to be not so great if you have for example the bath running and the tap for washing up - we don't use a dish washer! I felt that if the boiler was in demand to do all 3 at any point i wouldn't want the boiler to struggle so having the cylinder would be an ideal solution!?! Just my thought...

I did not choose that particular boiler, that is what was advised, if there is an alternate one i shall ask them to suggest it and see what difference the quote makes.

** Also the warranty on the ideal boiler seemed to be on par with what others were offering, I have tried to read reviews on boilers in general but it is difficult to guage which would be most suitable!
Edited by: "Tahae_T" 12th Sep 2017
Tahae_T1 h, 29 m ago

HI thank you for the feedback so far, We generally find the hot water tank …HI thank you for the feedback so far, We generally find the hot water tank setup is suitable to us as we do most of our hot water in the evening, we can set it to get this heated up prior to the heating coming on when were home from work. Plus, the hot water on demand i have heard/found to be not so great if you have for example the bath running and the tap for washing up - we don't use a dish washer! I felt that if the boiler was in demand to do all 3 at any point i wouldn't want the boiler to struggle so having the cylinder would be an ideal solution!?! Just my thought...I did not choose that particular boiler, that is what was advised, if there is an alternate one i shall ask them to suggest it and see what difference the quote makes.** Also the warranty on the ideal boiler seemed to be on par with what others were offering, I have tried to read reviews on boilers in general but it is difficult to guage which would be most suitable!



I'd heard that as well (prior to having one ) . Obviously it only produces so much hot water -so if you turn -say the bath hot tap on at the same time as a sink tap the flow of hot water is slower but not noticeably so . I like my baths and the slowing of the hot water flow for the few seconds a sink may be filling is not a problem . I can see if you just have a mixer shower (not a thermostatically controlled one ) it could lead to the shower water becoming colder if someone turned the sink tap on while you were showering ,but not a problem if you have a thermostatic shower .

The heating is separate within a combi so it can be heating your rads with no effect on the hot water . I must admit I liked the comfy feeling of having a tank full of hot water and probably had the same worries you have - but all unfounded .

I have a Vaillant Ecotec 831 (its 31kw unsurprisingly!) and is more than ample for a 3 bed semi with8 rads (I was told I only needed the 24kw version but I erred on the high side .

I to replaced an older boiler and the result was halving my gas bills - The only downside is having to run the hot water for maybe an extra second or two until the hot water comes through -but hardly a problem (about half a washing up bowl of cold water with the combi ,with my old hot water tank only a quarter of a bowl of cold water before the hot came through).

However well you time it just think of all the energy you use to heat up that big tank of hot water- the heat of which leeches away however well lagged it is .

Virtually all new build houses have combis ,and most boiler replacements are now combis so you must have friends or relatives who have one , just ask them .

Judging by your 6 rad house an 18kw combi would probably suit ,but I would go for a 21 or 24 kw model to future proof ( in case you wanted to add an extension or en suite in the future) the larger models will only be an extra £40-£50 . The higher kw ones just produce a higher flow rate . I actually wanted an even bigger one (higher kw ,they are the same physical size ) but was advised that go too big and it will operate less efficiently as it would rarely if ever get up to its most efficient flow rate .

Anyway ask around friends who have one- see what they think- then think what you will do with the extra space vacated by that hot water tank and what you will do with the extra pounds of your hard earned cash you will obviously save on your gas bill.
rogparki9 h, 28 m ago

Sorry , how will using a Non VAT registered , Gas safe (required of course …Sorry , how will using a Non VAT registered , Gas safe (required of course ) installer fulfil the warranty requirement ? I doubt there are any non Vat registered Gas safe (previously Corgi) installers around ! So we can also take your boiler recommendations ! with a pinch of salt Please engage brain in future before posting ridiculous suggestions in response to a serious question asked by the poster .Why do some members comment on subjects they patently know nothing about ? It only makes them look silly and does not help the poster one iota .


I am a non VAT registered gas installer.... Pretty much every sole trader will be.

I fit boilers for a living, I also have the pleasure of servicing and repairing them, Worcester are amongst the worst in that regard.

You might enjoy watching the Worcester adverts on tv. Having one fitted in your own home because of that doesn't make you an expert.

You've even advised an 18Kw combi, please enlighten us where these can be obtained. You have no clue on boiler sizing, and seem unable to grasp the concept of flow rates.
Worcester have the best reputation for reliability - so don't know why Themorgatron is saying they are the worst.

I had my boiler replaced last week, got rid of the hot water cylinder - you don't need it. The flow rate of a 24 or 28kw boiler will easily supply your bath and sink at the same time. The water pressure increases as well as it's fed from the mains not the tank.

For what you are getting done it sounds like a good price - mine cost £2100 and I didn't change any rads or get a powerflush(water was clean in the pipes), just got rid of the tank. And it only took them a day, £1000 for a days work is pretty good(boiler cost £1100), can see why plumbers are doing so well.
rogparki11 h, 59 m ago

Sorry , how will using a Non VAT registered , Gas safe (required of course …Sorry , how will using a Non VAT registered , Gas safe (required of course ) installer fulfil the warranty requirement ? I doubt there are any non Vat registered Gas safe (previously Corgi) installers around ! So we can also take your boiler recommendations ! with a pinch of salt Please engage brain in future before posting ridiculous suggestions in response to a serious question asked by the poster .Why do some members comment on subjects they patently know nothing about ? It only makes them look silly and does not help the poster one iota .


Of course there are self employed gas safe installers who are not vat registered, so every sole trader who is gas safe qualified earns over £83,000?
Following to see rog's reply.
themorgatron9 h, 13 m ago

I am a non VAT registered gas installer.... Pretty much every sole trader …I am a non VAT registered gas installer.... Pretty much every sole trader will be. I fit boilers for a living, I also have the pleasure of servicing and repairing them, Worcester are amongst the worst in that regard.You might enjoy watching the Worcester adverts on tv. Having one fitted in your own home because of that doesn't make you an expert.You've even advised an 18Kw combi, please enlighten us where these can be obtained. You have no clue on boiler sizing, and seem unable to grasp the concept of flow rates.


Can't comment on the other points as I still have a 20 year old Potterton boiler (which I was once told was the 'Cortina' of boilers) still going strong but from a quick google there appears to be several combi boilers sized at 18kW - (Vailiant, Glowworm, Ideal) mrcentralheating.co.uk/boi…ler
Original Poster
I think I will ask to upgrade to an 18kw boiler but still keep hot cylinder tank. I saw there isn't much difference in the price for the particular model suggested if i were to go by online figures. I had a quick read up on power-flushing as again, people have advised against it but it seems some warranties will not be valid if we do not have one.

The reason to not have one seems to be typically the higher pressure could cause a problem elsewhere in the pipe because your forcing through a high pressure compared to normal, e.g it could cause a solder to fail on a joint somewhere which could damage/ruin your carpet/ceiling for instance). Also the "symptoms" which would call for having it done we don't really have. Heating works well on all rads in all rooms, and we have only ever bled 1 rad a small amount in 5 years. The boiler is noisy sure but its probably 20+ years old ( Myson Marathon 400c for ref.).

I would agree Thermorgatron's statement that - the Bosch Worcester boiler's are difficult to work on ( complete b*** ache apparently according to one person i spoke too) so I have head this from multiple sources but they do offer reasonable reliability and a fair warranty.

Bigfootpete's comment would also stand in this instance too!!

I'm only looking for advise guys and appreciate you've helped with valid input! So hopefully there is no niggly bickering going on here :-)

The way and reason i see it; combi boilers have a much higher Kw is that they are working (sometimes) double hard when on to serve your hot water and heating.



We are happy with the hot water tank because while one of us is bathing the kids the other is most likely cleaning up or washing up etc, we only have a mixer tap right now, but also I don't think combi boilers play well with a power shower if i were to have one fitted at a later date? ( not sure, if any one could confirm that would be great).

We have our tank downstairs in a medium/large cupboard in the kitchen in it is :

the tank, ironing board and mop bucket - it wouldn't be ideal to turn it into much else even with the tank out to be fair, we have fortunately a reasonable kitchen for it to not cause an immediate shortage of space.

( Plus, Id probably find a reason to buy more junk to fill it with lol).
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