Need your opinions on cars please

43 replies
Found 20th Feb 2010
hi

i want to get a new car. I currently have an 18 year old pink vitara and i want a newer car. Needs to be a smallish car, low tax etc.
I have a few cars in mind but im not great with cars so wanted to know which was best
Clio
Twingo
Corsa
Golf
C2
Z3

I have about £4000 - £5000 to spend. Which one do you think is best?

thanks guys

43 Comments

What do you define as best? A Twingo to a Z3 is a slightly unusual mix.

Original Poster

pghstochaj;7902573

What do you define as best? A Twingo to a Z3 is a slightly unusual mix.



fair point. just your opinions really. are any of them known to break alot so i should stay clear of? which one is best value for money etc.

Don't think you could go far wrong with the Golf.

Have a look at used car reviews on ]whatcar. They list things to look out for when buying a used car & which models to go for & avoid.

Avoid second hand Renaults. They're OK to drive but a lot of them are unreliable. Most of them being sold are because they're the dud ones.

Banned

Whatever cars ud of said id of sed a golf

Banned

you need to go and test drive a few and at least decide if you want 3 or 5 doors, a hatchback or a saloon and diesel or petrol for starters.

tony_s1;7902632

Avoid second hand Renaults. They're OK to drive but a lot of them are … Avoid second hand Renaults. They're OK to drive but a lot of them are unreliable. Most of them being sold are because they're the dud ones.



Substitute "Renault" for "French", and "a lot" to "all".

Don't get too caught up on reliability, all cars are pretty reliable now and if one car is slightly less reliable than another but costs £2000 less for the same age/spec, you have to judge which one is better suited. You can use the Reliability Index to get some information. Do you need the car to carry passengers and/or a child?

Twingo is too new to have much data on its reliability, but it is based on the old Clio and has very little to go wrong, I would guess it will be a reliable car. Only 4* NCAP. The Twingo is a very small car, it might not suit what you want and the Sport is out of your price range given.
The Clio III is generally well received reliability wise and it scored 35 on the reliability index (the lower the score the better). 5* NCAP. Very well equipped for the money.
Corsa (current model) has no info on
Corsa has no info on reliability index (probably slightly too new to have any useful info) but I believe it is generally well received albeit with recalls. 5* NCAP. Probably not as nice a place to be as a Clio as Vauxhalls usually aren't.
Golf: Will not depreciate as much as the rest of the list if you buy the right car, BUT reliability is average, 04-08 model is 59 on the reliability index. 5* NCAP and can be economical depending on the engine.
C2? I am not sure why you would want one when you can have a Corsa or a Clio, or even a Polo. Reliability index of 106 which is very poor for a small car.
Z3 - doubt you would care about economy or reliability if you buy this car, you will buy it for other reasons

You really need to go and sit in them and take them for a drive and see which you prefer, apart from the C2 I wouldn't say that there are any poor choices there but the Twingo is a basic town car and the Z3 is a fairly powerful "roadster" - that's a big range!

known issue with Clios,bonnet catch dodgy,bonnet can fly up when driving.
Sudden total blindness at speed can be a bowel loosening experience.
Check the recalls been done.
I'd also go for a VW,good residuals when you go to change again.A Golf diesel is tempting,or maybe a Passat?
If the badge doesnt put you off,a Skoda Octavia Diesel is surprisingly similar (and less money) but sought after by taxi drivers,depends what your looking for really,and how long you plan to kep it???

thesaint;7902702

Substitute "Renault" for "French", and "a lot" to "all".



Going to qualify your comments or just rely on a few small experiences? I did a post last night looking at the reliability of German against French and Italian cars and it doesn't look pretty for the German cars. Here:

Have you actually looked at any sort of statistics recently? It is not … Have you actually looked at any sort of statistics recently? It is not pretty reading for German cars.e.g. reliability index, lower the score the better.VW Golf (04-08): 58.87Focus (04-): 62.13Astra (04-09): 27.45C4 (04-): 32.031 series (04-07): 109.09307 (01-07): 60.24Megane (02-06): 86.95Corolla (02-07): 14.65A3 (03-): 129.45So want reliable, get a Corolla or C4, or anything on the list other than the GERMAN BMW 1 series or GERMAN Audi A3. I won't even mention the A class.Polo (00-09): 53.39Clio (05-09): 35.06Fabia (00-07): 60.31Punto (03-06): 39.43Mini (01-06): 89.85Ibiza (02-09): 72.40So want reliable, get French or Italian and avoid VAG.Fact is, all cars are reliable, some just slightly more than others. The Polo and Golf are not the market leaders they once tried to be. The Twingo is a cheap car which is unlikely to have specific reliability issues, it has very little to go wrong.

PhilthyPhil;7902730

known issue with Clios,bonnet catch dodgy,bonnet can fly up when … known issue with Clios,bonnet catch dodgy,bonnet can fly up when driving.Sudden total blindness at speed can be a bowel loosening experience.Check the recalls been done.I'd also go for a VW,good residuals when you go to change again.A Golf diesel is tempting,or maybe a Passat?If the badge doesnt put you off,a Skoda Octavia Diesel is surprisingly similar (and less money) but sought after by taxi drivers,depends what your looking for really,and how long you plan to kep it???



Old Clio, the budget given would be looking at the Clio III and not the Clio II (which has a completely safe bonnet catch if a little care is taken). It's also not a recall.

pghstochaj;7902747

Going to qualify your comments or just rely on a few small experiences?



There are Lies, damn lies and statistics.

thesaint;7902773

There are Lies, damn lies and statistics.



An easy comment to make if the statistics are weighted against you, but only useful if you have other statistics to back up your point.

Honda Jazz - Super reliable, Hold there Value Really well also

Original Poster

thanks everyone for all the great advice. looks like golf is the favourite so far. I dont have any kids to take out with me only a little dog so size doesnt matter for me.
maybe i should take z3 off my list them as i want a cheap to run car really. i used to have a smart roadster so ive had a little sports type car already. im hoping to keep the car for a long while. It also needs to be automatic ( can drive manual but prefer auto). not sure if the twingo is avaliable in auto

Other similar small cars to consider include:

Suzuki Swift, Seat Ibiza, Yaris and Skoda Fabia.

pghstochaj;7902783

An easy comment to make if the statistics are weighted against you, but … An easy comment to make if the statistics are weighted against you, but only useful if you have other statistics to back up your point.



My dad was a mechanic, had his own garage that I went to all holidays as a kid.
Spent 3 years full time at college studying motor vehicle engineering.
Passed a nominated testers course 8 or so years ago.

My conclusion = Don't buy French.

I don't need "Statistics" to back me up. Experience baby, experience.

Banned

id go for a Golf Gt Tdi then fully loaded with all the toys and leather, decent performance and economy and heaps of torques, maybe skoda VRS

lincolnsmommy;7902801

thanks everyone for all the great advice. looks like golf is the … thanks everyone for all the great advice. looks like golf is the favourite so far. I dont have any kids to take out with me only a little dog so size doesnt matter for me. maybe i should take z3 off my list them as i want a cheap to run car really. i used to have a smart roadster so ive had a little sports type car already. im hoping to keep the car for a long while. It also needs to be automatic ( can drive manual but prefer auto). not sure if the twingo is avaliable in auto



The Z3 will not be cheap to run, not in the sense of a Clio or Corsa. It is also entirely different to the Smart Roadster.

Twingo doesn't have an auto option yet so you can get rid of that then.

casparwhite;7902836

id go for a Golf Gt Tdi then fully loaded with all the toys and leather, … id go for a Golf Gt Tdi then fully loaded with all the toys and leather, decent performance and economy and heaps of torques, maybe skoda VRS



Pay for it in reliability though compared to many other cars

Banned

pghstochaj;7902850

Pay for it in reliability though compared to many other cars



you get a decent 1 with FSH and youll be fine, at worst make sure the timing belt has been done and for the cash shed be able to get a lowish milage 1, they arent that unreliable you know

thesaint;7902833

My dad was a mechanic, had his own garage that I went to all holidays as … My dad was a mechanic, had his own garage that I went to all holidays as a kid.Spent 3 years full time at college studying motor vehicle engineering.Passed a nominated testers course 8 or so years ago.My conclusion = Don't buy French.I don't need "Statistics" to back me up. Experience baby, experience.



Excellent, so you are using experience from more than 8 years ago to review cars you know very little about rather than revisiting your opinions and looking at the "cold hard facts"? Oh well, your choice but at least you have shown how flawed your basis is

Banned

thesaint;7902833

My dad was a mechanic, had his own garage that I went to all holidays as … My dad was a mechanic, had his own garage that I went to all holidays as a kid.Spent 3 years full time at college studying motor vehicle engineering.Passed a nominated testers course 8 or so years ago.My conclusion = Don't buy French.I don't need "Statistics" to back me up. Experience baby, experience.



your apparent skills and knowledge are hidden well, the most ive ever seen you comment on cars is "dont buy french" seeing as you dont want to back your statement up with statistics how about expressing your opinion on the whys and what fors about buying into french motorvehicles.

i also thought that some french trucks were right up there

I think our anti-French friend needs to catch up with things. Or does he just watch too much "Top Gear" and falls for their comic prejudices?

I've had French cars for some 20 years, and the last one for twelve of those. I have another now. I've got a lot of car for my money and I'm very happy. I have had very few reliability issues, but when I have needed a spare part, I haven't had to pay a fortune for one.

My advice is to go for the car which you like most, but bear in mind residuals. That said, if you buy a car with a low second-hand price, you'll be selling the same car at some point, so shouldn't lose too much.

Of the small cars available, I'd be looking at a Yaris or a Jazz, I think.

golfs are good cars, but hold their value well,,, so you may struggle to find a good low milage one in your budget range. Im not sure that that cheap to service either. Id avoid toyotas atm
:giggle:

Personally id avoid Renaulit Clios, im not anti french, i like the look of them, just have a mate whos a garage mechanic and does a lot of work on them

casparwhite;7902836

maybe skoda VRS



Good shout :thumbsup:

pghstochaj;7902877

Excellent, so you are using experience from more than 8 years ago



No, I passed my nominated testers course 8 years ago.

casparwhite;7902929

how about expressing your opinion on the whys and what fors about buying … how about expressing your opinion on the whys and what fors about buying into french motorvehicles.



They're French...Nuff said.

droopsnout;7903050

I think our anti-French friend needs to catch up with things. Or does he … I think our anti-French friend needs to catch up with things. Or does he just watch too much "Top Gear" and falls for their comic prejudices?



No, don't watch Top Gear. Sorry.
See my resumé above for the hard of reading.

thesaint;7903684

No, I passed my nominated testers course 8 years ago. They're … No, I passed my nominated testers course 8 years ago. They're French...Nuff said.No, don't watch Top Gear. Sorry.See my resumé above for the hard of reading.



And you have been conducting MOT tests since, or not?

..French..Nuff said. - So useful. Your "resumé" unfortunately does not firm up your argument anymore than me saying "I once repaired a VW they must all be rubbish".

I agree, overall French cars are more troublesome than say Japanese or Korean cars.

My Daughter has a 10 year old Mazda, it has never had a thing go wrong with it.

Inactive;7903804

I agree, overall French cars are more troublesome than say Japanese or … I agree, overall French cars are more troublesome than say Japanese or Korean cars.My Daughter has a 10 year old Mazda, it has never had a thing go wrong with it.



But you have common sense enough to separate a single experience (or even multiple experiences) from the overall picture, I assume?

pghstochaj;7903832

But you have common sense enough to separate a single experience (or even … But you have common sense enough to separate a single experience (or even multiple experiences) from the overall picture, I assume?



Trust me, if you honestly believe French cars are as reliable in general terms as Japanese cars, you need a reality check.

Inactive;7903986

Trust me, if you honestly believe French cars are as reliable in general … Trust me, if you honestly believe French cars are as reliable in general terms as Japanese cars, you need a reality check.



No, I don't believe that in general terms that in general French cars are as reliable as Japanese cars (there are exceptions in both directions of course). If you can find me a single place where I have said otherwise please do let me know.

However, I do believe that people misunderstand the importance of the term "reliability", people incorrectly label French cars as unrelible as a blanket statement and that people overrate German cars which statistically, are not doing very well.

Just got a phone call from my mate in Spain, the gearbox on his 7 month old Citroen Berlingo, under 4000 miles has just seized up.:whistling:

Inactive;7906931

Just got a phone call from my mate in Spain, the gearbox on his 7 month … Just got a phone call from my mate in Spain, the gearbox on his 7 month old Citroen Berlingo, under 4000 miles has just seized up.:whistling:



So? 1000s of cars have failures all the time. Don't know what seized up means though.

pghstochaj;7906747

However, I do believe that people misunderstand the importance of the … However, I do believe that people misunderstand the importance of the term "reliability", people incorrectly label French cars as unrelible as a blanket statement and that people overrate German cars which statistically, are not doing very well.



Yet in the JDPower survey (I didn't see what figures you were quoting although I assume it's not the incredibly misleading MOT failure rates), every single German manufacturer was above the industry average with Skoda getting joint third (no surprise given the amount used for Taxis) with Toyota while every French manufacturer was below the industry average. Parkers.co.uk is not very complimentary when it comes to reliability for most of the French cars due to the large number of reported problems which they monitor.

Part of the problem is, at least in my experience that there's a tendency with the French manufacturers to pack their cars with gadgets which increase the chance of failure. My own car has a standard key for ignition, a pull handbrake, an analogue dashboard with one basic display, there's no automatic wipers, no automatic headlights, tyre pressure monitors etc. The equivalent french models I was looking at when I purchased my car had all these automatic features which just looked like trouble.

John

Johnmcl7;7907039

Yet in the JDPower survey (I didn't see what figures you were quoting … Yet in the JDPower survey (I didn't see what figures you were quoting although I assume it's not the incredibly misleading MOT failure rates), every single German manufacturer was above the industry average with Skoda getting joint third (no surprise given the amount used for Taxis) with Toyota while every French manufacturer was below the industry average. Parkers.co.uk is not very complimentary when it comes to reliability for most of the French cars due to the large number of reported problems which they monitor.Part of the problem is, at least in my experience that there's a tendency with the French manufacturers to pack their cars with gadgets which increase the chance of failure. My own car has a standard key for ignition, a pull handbrake, an analogue dashboard with one basic display, there's no automatic wipers, no automatic headlights, tyre pressure monitors etc. The equivalent french models I was looking at when I purchased my car had all these automatic features which just looked like trouble.John


Statistics are from the reliability index published by Warranty Direct.

JD Power survey is massively flawed in that it asks Joe Public to comment on their car, Joe Public is an inexperienced and biased observer at best and at worst, a liar that wants to either attack or market a product for fun. My point previously was that you rarely find a VW Golf owner moaning about their car's reliability but the statistics prove that it is average at best (get a French C4 if you want much better...). They are proud of their car and are led to believe by marketing that it is good. You often find people criticising the reliability of Puntos and Clios but statistically, it is far better than Minis, Ibizas and Fabias (once again, statistics are based on aftermarket warranty claims). You find that somebody might buy a car like the Punto because it's all they can afford, they don't look after it and its reliability suffers, yet a Golf owner is unlikely to do that.

It's not the misleading MOT rates which mean very very little.

Also, reliability is a fairly misunderstood term. If your handsfree locking fails and you revert back to a "basic" keyless entry system then although something has failed, it doesn't stop you from using the car in the same way everybody else has to. The market also has this tendency to overrate reliability when all cars are pretty reliable. Aslong as you are fully aware of the potential problems when buying a car and only pay the appropriate price, it's irrelevant whether you buy German, French or Japanese (etc.). It does mean you can get some pretty fantastic French cars for very low prices used.

Banned

Inactive;7903804

I agree, overall French cars are more troublesome than say Japanese or … I agree, overall French cars are more troublesome than say Japanese or Korean cars.My Daughter has a 10 year old Mazda, it has never had a thing go wrong with it.



but what about corsas, golfs etc this was never a discussion just comparing french with japanese now was it:? besides all models have varying rates of failure never mind manufacturers

How on earth can you make such sweeping generalisations yourself after repeatedly critiicisng others for doing the exact It's flawed reasoning to put it mildly. I've yet to come across a single VW owner who hasn't complained about their car (they were more keen to do so because of the general view of the brand, same with friends who've had poor Toyotas) because of problems and I sure as heck wouldn't hold back if my own German-built car had suffered poor reliability. While there is more of a bias in the JDPower survey to report faults rather than cars that are running well, you can't dismiss it entirely when there are just as many other generalisations could made to counter those you've chosen,

The earlier comment about statistics and lies is entirely appropriate here which I'm sure you of all people is very much aware despite arguing the point. Warranty Direct are hardly authorative on car reliability given their limited scope and given their data clashes rather strongly with Parkers (who have a much wider scope), I'd tend to trust the latter but either way your statistics prove nothing.

lincolnsmommy - I'd recommend having a good read up about any cars you're interested first, Parkers do reasonable reviews and also allow car owners to post their own reviews which can be very useful. If there's any decent large garages nearby you it's worth just having a look through the cars in person, for my last car I'd drawn up a pretty exact spec for what I wanted and then ended up buying something else entirely.

John

I only ever buy Japanese cars, have never had a single thing go wrong with any of them, other than service items, they havn't cost me a penny in repairs.

The only non-Japanese cars that I would consider are Korean cars, they seem to be made of similar stuff to the Japanese ones.
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