Neoliberalism - reason for your woes or fortune

24 replies
Found 9th Nov 2016
In MISC, many blame people's woes and unhappiness on the unions, immigrants, bankers, foreigners, foreign policy, terrorists, establishment but , they should not be blamed that much, here is the mother cause of them all (woes and unhappiness) - the cause of it all, neoliberalism, policies and laws put in by Reagan and Thatcher - 35 years. The other side is obviously fortune and happiness.
.
So this thread is NOT about bitching on brexit nor EU nor immigrants. But what action shall our leaders take? May and Trump etc..The question is should we carry on with neoliberalism, namely, no change to policies put in by Thatcher and carried on by Blair and then Cameron/Clegg in UK (and in US , Reagan, then Clinton and then Obama)?
.
You may say what the heck is neoliberalism (implemented as Reaganomics and Thatcherism and then their policies carried out till today, its international delivery mechanism is globalisation).
.
A crash course on neo-liberalism and ita issues (but of course there are positives too), note this was published in April 2016 (before EU Referendum and of course US election results)
theguardian.com/boo…iot
.
I am not saying neoliberalisn is good or bad, just to bring this to your notice as the people that you blame are mostly not the decision makers for these changes. Rather, they are the symptoms of the implementation of neoliberalism.

  1. Misc
Groups
  1. Misc
24 Comments

The answer is of course we should change but we won't as the system is there to benefit the few at the expense of the many, as long as the few are in power they will continue to enact polices and influence the great unwashed to their favour.

many blame unions, immigrants, bankers, foreigners, foreign policy, … many blame unions, immigrants, bankers, foreigners, foreign policy, terrorists, establishment for their woes and unhappiness but , they should not be blamed that much, here is the mother of them all - the cause of it all, neoliberalism, policies and laws put in by Reagan and Thatcher - 35 years.



Er, I'd take issue with the idea that neoliberalism is responsible for people flying planes into buildings and ISIS chopping off people's heads. Neoliberalism didn't create Wahhabism/Salafism.

copperspock

Er, I'd take issue with the idea that neoliberalism is responsible for … Er, I'd take issue with the idea that neoliberalism is responsible for people flying planes into buildings and ISIS chopping off people's heads. Neoliberalism didn't create Wahhabism/Salafism.




No but it helped the main exporters of it to have the freedom to spead it.

Error440

No but it helped the main exporters of it to have the freedom to spead it.



Though the overwhelming demand for oil would've been there regardless unfortunately. Maybe KSA wouldn't be as rich and influential as it is now?

Here's an interesting read:
politico.com/mag…241

Original Poster

copperspock

Though the overwhelming demand for oil would've been there regardless … Though the overwhelming demand for oil would've been there regardless unfortunately. Maybe KSA wouldn't be as rich and influential as it is now?Here's an interesting read:http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/saudi-arabia-terrorism-funding-214241



copperspock

Er, I'd take issue with the idea that neoliberalism is responsible for … Er, I'd take issue with the idea that neoliberalism is responsible for people flying planes into buildings and ISIS chopping off people's heads. Neoliberalism didn't create Wahhabism/Salafism.


We are talking about the context and reasons to be as to what made people voted the way they did that shocked the polls and expert prediction in EU Referendum and US Election.

Whinge whinge bloody whinge.

Into your globally-connected pocket computer.

With the massive telly blaring in the background, while you stuff exotic food into your face.

We are so hard done by because some other more successful people happen to own a lot of zeroes on a computer somewhere.

So in summary, this thread is about how to solve the world's problems, so long as you agree with the OP that the world's problems are down to neoliberalisism?

I'm out.

copperspock

Though the overwhelming demand for oil would've been there regardless … Though the overwhelming demand for oil would've been there regardless unfortunately. Maybe KSA wouldn't be as rich and influential as it is now?Here's an interesting read:http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/saudi-arabia-terrorism-funding-214241



Just cos you want someone's black gold doesn't mean you have to let them sponsor schools and mosques everywhere and turn a blind eye to their teachings.

But seeing as we are now the 2nd biggest arms exporter in the world its questionable who has caused the most damage, pots and kettles I guess.

Original Poster

coathanger

So in summary, this thread is about how to solve the world's problems, so … So in summary, this thread is about how to solve the world's problems, so long as you agree with the OP that the world's problems are down to neoliberalisism?I'm out.


Not to solve world problems, just on how situation developed with Reaganomics and Thatcherism, these policies were not applied in the same balance as Australia and Canada where neoliberalism is applied. Scandinavia, rest of Europe, Switzerland etc.. have no such implementation. So for example, if you visited firemen in these countries, they are happy, but go to UK and US they voted for Farage and Trump.

splender

We are talking about the context and reasons to be as to what made people … We are talking about the context and reasons to be as to what made people voted the way they did that shocked the polls and expert prediction in EU Referendum and US Election.



I was addressing your comment, where you said that neoliberalism is 'the mother of them all, the cause of it all', ('them'/'it' including terrorism).
That's just not true. Terrorism (specifically religious terrorism) is not sourced from neoliberal policies.
Terrorists would still be trying to do things like murder people in concerts, fly planes into buildings and hack people to death in Bangladesh regardless of what ideas Thatcher and Reagan had.
You could argue that neoliberalism is a cause of many problems that people are having, but it is just plain inaccurate to say it is the root cause of people's woes and unhappiness.

Error440

Just cos you want someone's black gold doesn't mean you have to let them … Just cos you want someone's black gold doesn't mean you have to let them sponsor schools and mosques everywhere and turn a blind eye to their teachings. But seeing as we are now the 2nd biggest arms exporter in the world its questionable who has caused the most damage, pots and kettles I guess.



Maybe I'm a cynic, but if it wasn't the US/the particular administrations in charge, I could also imagine others turning a blind eye for some short-term gain.
Yeah we sure as hell haven't helped matters. I'm really, really looking forward to the day when the oil runs out.

Original Poster

copperspock

I was addressing your comment, where you said that neoliberalism is 'the … I was addressing your comment, where you said that neoliberalism is 'the mother of them all, the cause of it all', ('them'/'it' including terrorism). That's just not true. Terrorism (specifically religious terrorism) is not sourced from neoliberal policies. Terrorists would still be trying to do things like murder people in concerts, fly planes into buildings and hack people to death in Bangladesh regardless of what ideas Thatcher and Reagan had.You could argue that neoliberalism is a cause of many problems that people are having, but it is just plain inaccurate to say it is the root cause of people's woes and unhappiness.


Read me post again, I didn't say neoliberalism causes directly terror. My case agrees with you. Don't blame all your woes on terrorism.
Edited by: "splender" 9th Nov 2016

splender

Read me post again, I didn't say neoliberalism causes directly terror.



So what is the alternative to neoliberalism - what next? Perhaps it's something like this...

gov.uk/gov…may

Original Poster

Fred Smith

So what is the alternative to neoliberalism - what next? Perhaps it's … So what is the alternative to neoliberalism - what next? Perhaps it's something like this...https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/statement-from-the-new-prime-minister-theresa-mayone-nation


Model on what Canada and Scandinavian countries have,as well as other countries like Belgium, Germany, Netherlands' economic social and industrial policies. (countries which did not take up neoliberalism, see the link in my post as to what it is..)

Original Poster

Fred Smith

So what is the alternative to neoliberalism - what next? Perhaps it's … So what is the alternative to neoliberalism - what next? Perhaps it's something like this...https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/statement-from-the-new-prime-minister-theresa-may


Um, no details as yet, the May initial statement has very high overviews and could be either neoliberalism or anti-it. We just don't know as yet. There has to be a bigger change, as we just had another massive lessons learnt from the way the Amercians have voted, those who had suffered Reaganomics.

splender

Read me post again, I didn't say neoliberalism causes directly terror. My … Read me post again, I didn't say neoliberalism causes directly terror. My case agrees with you. Don't blame all your woes on terrorism.



Nah don't get me wrong, I don't blame all my woes on terrorism at all. Far from it. I don't think the problems we face fit into a few neat little boxes.
I read your post a few times. I'd suggest you should re-phrase it if that's not what you meant, because saying 'neoliberalism is the mother cause of people's woes and unhappiness' (which include terrorism and the threat of it) gives that impression.

splender

Model on what Canada and Scandinavian countries have,as well as other … Model on what Canada and Scandinavian countries have,as well as other countries like Belgium, Germany, Netherlands' economic social and industrial policies. (countries which did not take up neoliberalism, see the link in my post as to what it is..)


What they have is masses of empty land and abundant natural resources, what do you suggest, reclaim it from the sea? Colonise the moon?

Canada is going down the pan

Original Poster

Error440

Canada is going down the pan


Canada is booming, they have a skills shortage and recently announced further immigration plans.

Original Poster

Read this on the clinical psychology aspect of neoliberalism, author is Head of Psychotherapy at the University of Ghent in Belgium. It helps to explain the thinking on recent election results in UK and US and may do so in France and Germany.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51XGNLtS3BL.jpg

I bet former Presidents Bush (snr & jnr) and former Prime Minister John Major are pretty gutted to have been omitted from your OP

Original Poster

RossD89

I bet former Presidents Bush (snr & jnr) and former Prime Minister John … I bet former Presidents Bush (snr & jnr) and former Prime Minister John Major are pretty gutted to have been omitted from your OP


If I included everything, and everybody did, then it would be a book of directory. Howeve, critically, people coined and accepted Thatcherism and Reaganomics, nobody say Bushonomics nor Majorism/Majoronmics.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the root cause of pretty much every single problem in western society is zero interest rates (together with printing unimaginale amounts of money). There is badly misguided group-think and vested interests (incuding by those in positions of power and influence) that low interest rates are a good idea, that they are some sort of cost-free solution to various fundamental problems in the economy. They are not a "solution", they simply cause different problems. Any other "explanation" for current societal problems is just addressing the symptoms, not the actual underying cause

The saying "there's no such thing as a free lunch" didn't arise by accident.

Original Poster

3guesses

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the root cause of pretty much … I've said it before and I'll say it again: the root cause of pretty much every single problem in western society is zero interest rates (together with printing unimaginale amounts of money). There is badly misguided group-think and vested interests (incuding by those in positions of power and influence) that low interest rates are a good idea, that they are some sort of cost-free solution to various fundamental problems in the economy. They are not a "solution", they simply cause different problems. Any other "explanation" for current societal problems is just addressing the symptoms, not the actual underying causeThe saying "there's no such thing as a free lunch" didn't arise by accident.


That's (0% interest rate) a financial tool in neoliberalism. But you are right, low interest rate and endless supply of money is a big impact. (Mortgage interest rates at time of Thatcher started was 15% or so if I remembered correctly.)
.
The Americans spent so much collectively that they owe the Chinese 68 US cents per US$ of debt. E.g. just a throwaway little piddlly example. They couldn't really afford new Apple iPhone really annually, but they do from borrowed money collectively and inject money into the system, money that they do not have. Same in UK here, trillon dollar debt yet new iPhones, it is analogous to UK is just one person, has a new iPhone the size of 100 aircraft carriers every year, although he has trillon dollar debt. That's how we laugh and ridicule a person on welfare benefits and yet has an iPhone every year and a plasma TV in the old days... the sort of Daily Mail headlines.
Edited by: "splender" 12th Nov 2016
Post a comment
Avatar
@
    Text
    Top Discussions
    1. Foo fighters presale code.1413
    2. Foo fighters pre sale code11
    3. Cheap Xbox games45
    4. What's this on my neighbours roof?1213

    See more discussions