Found 5th Mar
Just a quick question over the new law regarding mobiles whilst driving....

I was a professional driver for the last 20 years and know the law pretty well , including the fact that you can always get a ticket for "due care and attention" doing anything in a car , including legal things if a police officer deems you are not in control.of your vehicle..

For the record I am 100% behind the law having seen some of the aftereffects of accidents caused by them.

Have looked at the new law and its fairly straight forward, basically dont touch your mobile (which I dont anyhow as its totally hands free) but I have found a grey area that maybe the HDUK hive mind can give its opinions on.

So its still legal to touch your car stereo to change channels etc as long as your not distracted , but my car stereo connects via app to my phone which sits immediately above the stereo in a hands free bracket giving me a really simple way to swipe left or right to change channels tracks etc, so in this configuration would it be classed as a mobile phone hence illegal or would it be classed as part of the stereo hence legal.??

Not a biggy but using the buttons on the stereo is a bit fiddly whilst using the large phone screen does not distract at all.......

28 Comments

my guess its part of the stereo, so you dont handle the mobile. many cars/vans have steering wheel controls now to pick up incoming calls through the multi media unit.

bbc.co.uk/new…ing

The AA told Newsbeat if you are using your phone while it is secured in a cradle it may be slightly different.
That's because technically the device is not handheld.
"But if you are involved in a collision as a result you could be prosecuted for driving without due care and attention," they said.
"That carries an even greater penalty, particularly if you injure or kill somebody, in which case you would be prosecuted for causing death by dangerous driving."
They say "your full focus should be on driving" every time you get behind the wheel. Ideally you should switch your phone off, or put it away, if you're driving.

Can you change your music while driving?
"Set up your playlist before you set off.
"Scrolling through songs will be a distraction and if the worst should happen, this would be driving without due care and attention."
Can I declining a call on my phone if it's in a cradle?
"If your phone is connected to your Bluetooth or hands-free system then you should be able to use the button on your steering wheel to decline the call.
"Otherwise, let it ring out or better still, have the phone off and in the glovebox while you're driving so that you can't be tempted or distracted by it."
Can I make calls if I am using voice activation?
"If you use the voice controls and the buttons on your steering wheel this is within the law but for safety, conversations should still be kept to a minimum - for example 'I'm stuck in traffic' or 'I'm running 10 minutes late.'
"This could actually enhance safety by taking the pressure off, so you're not so inclined to rush or speed, but anything much more in-depth than that should be avoided.
Can I read a text when it flashes up on screen in your cradled phone?
"Reading it can still be a distraction and diverts your attention from the road.
"The text will be there when you reach your destination, it can wait.
"When you're driving, your full focus should be on driving."

Mobile law i would say as the phone is not an integral part of the stereo just an added function. I understand where you are coming from with the playing about with the stereo as ive seen in the past people reaching into glove compartments for cds. But now days most controls are on the steering wheel so less likely of a cause of on accident now.
The law has changed simply not because people are using the phones to actually ring people. But the fact they are scrolling thru facebook and twitter on the move and trying to reply keeping their eyes off the road for more than a few seconds which is deadly. Seen on motorway a few days ago a mini bus driver staring at his phone doing around 70mph, awful the thought of what could of happened. These selfish drivers need to understand people want to get home to their loved ones and kids etc alive.

i needed to make a fairly urgent phone call on a Monday morning, and seeing as I was going to be late for work, i made the call (hands free) on my way to work. its the first time i've done it, and I'll try my hardest not to do it again. Even though it was handsfree, the concentration required to make the phone call, listening and responding, meant I couldnt pay 100% attention to the road. I didnt feel completely in control of my car. I live in a fairly small town and my commute is mainly single carriageway driving so its fairly easy, but i still wasnt comfortable.

Not sure if its just me, but I think using the phone in any means whilst driving should be discouraged, or even illegal but i dont see an effective method of enforcement.

Just my 2p worth.

Original Poster

davewave

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/39133018/mobile-phones-what-you-can-and-cant-do-when-youre-drivingThe AA told Newsbeat if you are using your phone while it is secured in a cradle it may be slightly different.That's because technically the device is not handheld."But if you are involved in a collision as a result you could be prosecuted for driving without due care and attention," they said."That carries an even greater penalty, particularly if you injure or kill somebody, in which case you would be prosecuted for causing death by dangerous driving."They say "your full focus should be on driving" every time you get behind the wheel. Ideally you should switch your phone off, or put it away, if you're driving.Can you change your music while driving?"Set up your playlist before you set off."Scrolling through songs will be a distraction and if the worst should happen, this would be driving without due care and attention."Can I declining a call on my phone if it's in a cradle?"If your phone is connected to your Bluetooth or hands-free system then you should be able to use the button on your steering wheel to decline the call."Otherwise, let it ring out or better still, have the phone off and in the glovebox while you're driving so that you can't be tempted or distracted by it."Can I make calls if I am using voice activation?"If you use the voice controls and the buttons on your steering wheel this is within the law but for safety, conversations should still be kept to a minimum - for example 'I'm stuck in traffic' or 'I'm running 10 minutes late.'"This could actually enhance safety by taking the pressure off, so you're not so inclined to rush or speed, but anything much more in-depth than that should be avoided.Can I read a text when it flashes up on screen in your cradled phone?"Reading it can still be a distraction and diverts your attention from the road."The text will be there when you reach your destination, it can wait."When you're driving, your full focus should be on driving."



Thanks that article is more helpful than others..

This bit , tho not about stereos seems to indicate that you can briefly touch your mobile in a cradle..

Can you use it as a sat-nav?
"It should be programmed with the route before you set off.
"If it pops up with a message which requires just one press of a button, such as 'A faster route has been found. Accept/ Decline' you should be OK to do this, as you would with an in-built sat-nav.
"But if you need to re-programme the route then pull over and stop somewhere safe to do it."

adamspencer95

i needed to make a fairly urgent phone call on a Monday morning, and … i needed to make a fairly urgent phone call on a Monday morning, and seeing as I was going to be late for work, i made the call (hands free) on my way to work. its the first time i've done it, and I'll try my hardest not to do it again. Even though it was handsfree, the concentration required to make the phone call, listening and responding, meant I couldnt pay 100% attention to the road. I didnt feel completely in control of my car. I live in a fairly small town and my commute is mainly single carriageway driving so its fairly easy, but i still wasnt comfortable.Not sure if its just me, but I think using the phone in any means whilst driving should be discouraged, or even illegal but i dont see an effective method of enforcement.Just my 2p worth.



I often take calls during my trip due to work and I never feel as though I'm not in control of the vehicle.

I remember years back when I passed my test I wouldn't even have music playing during my first few weeks of driving as I didn't feel I was 100% concentrated.

adamspencer95

i needed to make a fairly urgent phone call on a Monday morning, and … i needed to make a fairly urgent phone call on a Monday morning, and seeing as I was going to be late for work, i made the call (hands free) on my way to work. its the first time i've done it, and I'll try my hardest not to do it again. Even though it was handsfree, the concentration required to make the phone call, listening and responding, meant I couldnt pay 100% attention to the road. I didnt feel completely in control of my car. I live in a fairly small town and my commute is mainly single carriageway driving so its fairly easy, but i still wasnt comfortable.Not sure if its just me, but I think using the phone in any means whilst driving should be discouraged, or even illegal but i dont see an effective method of enforcement.Just my 2p worth.



​Have to agree with you here, I've had cars in the past with built in phone systems controlled from the steering wheel, but never felt comfortable using them as I felt it was a massive distraction and i wasn't completely aware of the surrounding situations whilst talking on phone.

The simple fact is, ANYONE caught using their phones for anything other than an emergency phone call should be banned for a minimum of 12 months. If you have ever seen a 6yr old girl get flung up in the air while her and her mother were on a crossing because some **** was on his phone you'd know why I'm saying this. If it was an emergency you need to prove it to the police. The amount of people I see on phones is disgusting, especially younger people, taxi drivers and wagon drivers, plus white van man...

Peskybunny

I often take calls during my trip due to work and I never feel as though … I often take calls during my trip due to work and I never feel as though I'm not in control of the vehicle. I remember years back when I passed my test I wouldn't even have music playing during my first few weeks of driving as I didn't feel I was 100% concentrated.



​maybe it's a case of practise makes perfect, i'm not sure

Why is smoking still legal? Touching a phone is illegal but setting fire to things whilst driving is fine

Original Poster

adamspencer95

​maybe it's a case of practise makes perfect, i'm not sure




Yep it does, after 20 years of 12 hour days, navigating country lanes in the dark , whilst reading a running card (for timing points) and answering questions from passengers ( despite the don't distract driver signs) it takes a lot to distract me.

And as a aside about the 100% concentration thing , you can't, its impossible , we did a course a few years back on this subject and were told that 70% was about right, we are human and will be distracted at some point. IIRC air traffic controllers came out top of the list (for normal jobs) with about 85% .

Edited by: "mfactor" 5th Mar

I could be completely wrong here or out of date perhaps but i was always of the understanding its illegal to call or text or use communication apps but not to use it for sat nav music etc.

Feel free to shoot me dwn i could be wrong but what about using an mp3 without call capabilities

There is only 1 law in this country and that is common law
Anything else is either an act or statute made up by stupid old people sat in the house of lords (who think they know best)
And for any act or statute to be enforced it requires consent

japes

Why is smoking still legal? Touching a phone is illegal but setting fire … Why is smoking still legal? Touching a phone is illegal but setting fire to things whilst driving is fine



It's a bit like you can have phone cradles , sat navs and dash cams stuck to your windscreen
But if left on in a mot it's a obstruction and will fail but people still do it

my question is so is any companies that use a mobile phone for say taxi drivers such as uber. know 100 illegal or not to use. if so why hasn't uber been banned in UK yet. I personally think it's a but silly if u can press a touch screen button to accept a job on a pda as being legal but on a phone illegal. will they need put there sim into a tabet know to accept jobs.

My only problem with this is that I use a laptop and phone in my van as I drive about etc. Now I do this while parked up outside someones house after finishing up etc. The problem? well if the engine is running then I am breaking the law now. Sometimes I need the engine running simply if its freezing winter e.g. I am waiting for the screen to demist/ clear which could take upto 10mins, or simply I want to keep warm while working on my phone/laptop? All in which time I cannot use my phone?

The only solution im seeing is for me is to lock the van and move over to the passenger seat which I usually keep things on, just seemed stupid.

rye2

There is only 1 law in this country and that is common law Anything else … There is only 1 law in this country and that is common law Anything else is either an act or statute made up by stupid old people sat in the house of lords (who think they know best)And for any act or statute to be enforced it requires consent



​good luck.

Niz

My only problem with this is that I use a laptop and phone in my van as I … My only problem with this is that I use a laptop and phone in my van as I drive about etc. Now I do this while parked up outside someones house after finishing up etc. The problem? well if the engine is running then I am breaking the law now. Sometimes I need the engine running simply if its freezing winter e.g. I am waiting for the screen to demist/ clear which could take upto 10mins, or simply I want to keep warm while working on my phone/laptop? All in which time I cannot use my phone?The only solution im seeing is for me is to lock the van and move over to the passenger seat which I usually keep things on, just seemed stupid.



Well technically if you have not moved the vehicle you are still parked and not driving (even if the engine is on, but you are in control of it). If you drive down the street and pull over you are driving.

As for the OPs question (these are based on a retired police officers (30years) understanding)

What is a handheld device? Something that can send and/or receive communications. It must also have its own power source (ie contain a battery).

As for prosecution. If you are holding a handheld device and driving* and he sees it that is enough.

If it is in a dock or cradel he must have seen you use it and concluded (IHO) that it has distracted your from driving. This will take several seconds.

*Driving is any point at which you last entered the vehicle and it moved. When stopped is still classed as driving. When you remove yourself from the vehicle you are then parked.

Is there a penalty for using a inverter in your car and a George Forman grill on the passenger seat going some sosage and bacon for breakfast whilst driving?

rye2

There is only 1 law in this country and that is common law Anything else … There is only 1 law in this country and that is common law Anything else is either an act or statute made up by stupid old people sat in the house of lords (who think they know best)And for any act or statute to be enforced it requires consent




LOL, I've seen them clown vids on YouTube. Very kek, the toppest of kek in fact

Bradleigh

It's a bit like you can have phone cradles , sat navs and dash cams stuck … It's a bit like you can have phone cradles , sat navs and dash cams stuck to your windscreenBut if left on in a mot it's a obstruction and will fail but people still do it



If your car fails for that find another garage. Its in the manual that we can remove temporary obstructions such as cradles air fresh etc or we can fail it. If the testers failing it hes a muppet sinple as that

How about putting your phone in the glove box and using a Fitbit type of device that goes on your wrist for notifications (receives data only).


Edited by: "antony4462" 5th Mar

I got a slap on the wrist yesterday by a copper for using android pay at McDonalds. In the eyes of the law I was using a handheld device whilst driving. Told me not to do it and also said he'd be speaking to the restaurant to educate them on the law. Think he was a bit of a jobsworth and had parked up near McDonalds just to catch someone doing this.

123batman321

If your car fails for that find another garage. Its in the manual that we … If your car fails for that find another garage. Its in the manual that we can remove temporary obstructions such as cradles air fresh etc or we can fail it. If the testers failing it hes a muppet sinple as that


We do remove them
What I'm saying is it's dangerous and causes a obstruction but people still do it
So if it's not safe and wouldn't pass the mot , how can people including driving instructors , stick stuff in the centre of a windscreen and drive around safely
No different to playing on your phone as eyes not on the road

Let's also not forget.... No eating whilst driving, no drinking, no smoking, no vaping etc

Paddy_o_furniture

I got a slap on the wrist yesterday by a copper for using android pay at … I got a slap on the wrist yesterday by a copper for using android pay at McDonalds. In the eyes of the law I was using a handheld device whilst driving. Told me not to do it and also said he'd be speaking to the restaurant to educate them on the law. Think he was a bit of a jobsworth and had parked up near McDonalds just to catch someone doing this.



Would this be the same PC who would turn round and say he could do nothing about the driver who has just rammed you from behind whilst sat in the queue at McDonalds as it's on private land. Yet again not so clever people have brought in a law which contains grey areas. My wife's car has Bluetooth hands free linked to the stereo. As you know using the cars stereo you can access contacts make calls receive calls etc but as you are touching the stereo you cannot be prosecuted but the result is just the same. There is no need for a cradle for the phone as it's in the wife's handbag but if she was involved in an accident whilst talking on the phone would the police try and disregard that the phone was being used as hands free. It would be difficult to prove for either side as even using Bluetooth it is possible to use the phone manually.

I don't use my phone when driving. Even using hands free is a distraction unless you're in rush hour but in my observations I find the worst offenders are van drivers, driver of German cars, 4x4 drivers, no surprise there but the worst offenders are girls or women texting. I see them in traffic most days constantly looking down. It's obvious they are texting.

How do the police communicate while driving when in a car on their own
On the radio attached to their vest
So what is the difference between us and them NONE

Actually there is a difference between us and them!

I've robbed the bit below from essexham.co.uk/ama…ing and it's a good read actually I think.

"Is it legal to operate an amateur radio rig whilst driving…
Technically, the answer is “yes”, but there are some things that you should be aware of:
Use of amateur radio in-car
As you’ll of course be aware, the law does not allow you to use a mobile phone whilst driving. The law that covers this is the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2003.
Section 2. 110 (1) of the regulations clearly state:
No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he is using—(a)a hand-held mobile telephone; or(b)a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).
Paragraph 4 states:
A device referred to in paragraphs (1)(b), (2)(b) and (3)(b) is a device, other than a two-way radio, which performs an interactive communication function by transmitting and receiving data.
Note the “other than a two-way radio”. Paragraph 6(b) defines a two-way radio as follows:
“two-way radio” means any wireless telegraphy apparatus which is designed or adapted—
(i)for the purpose of transmitting and receiving spoken messages; and
(ii)to operate on any frequency other than 880 MHz to 915 MHz, 925 MHz to 960 MHz, 1710 MHz to 1785 MHz, 1805 MHz to 1880 MHz, 1900 MHz to 1980 MHz or 2110 MHz to 2170 MHz
Conclusion
From this, use of a two-way amateur radio rig in-car on the amateur frequencies, appears not to be an offence under the ‘you can’t use a mobile phone when driving’ laws. It also allows the emergency services, companies such as taxi firms, and even CB users, to operate two-way radios whilst driving.
Note: We’re not legally trained, and none of the advice here should be taken as legally binding. We accept no liability for any of the advice given here.
You can read the law for yourself at: legislation.gov.uk/uks…/2/

From essexham.co.uk/ama…ing "


As a radio amateur I take notice but it does go on to say that you may be charged with driving without due care and attention if you still do something wrong though.
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