New Rules / Publication Rules going live 24th July - let us have your feedback

ADMIN 1400
Posted 17th Jul 2019
Hey guys - so for the past few months we've been working on some new rules which we'd like to put live on 24th July.

We know that the current rules have led to lots of uncertainty which has resulted in a fair amount of inconsistency in our decision making. We want to start afresh

>> You'll find the publication rules here <<

We need to get to a point where the first contact/communication we have with you provides enough information for you to understand why we've made that decision instead of you being sent a "catch all" message. For example, telling you specifically why we think a merchant unsuitable, instead of just telling you they can't be added at this time.

If you're still unsure or you have a question, the team will be on hand to provide further information and all you need to do is reply to the @hotukdeals_team message and someone will get back to you.

Every decision will be explained and we'll take whatever time is needed to make sure you're happy with our reasoning. Every action will be communicated (for example, when we move a thread from Deals to Discussions).

For the deal posters amongst us I think the biggest change is likely to be the need for deals to be market leading when they get shared on hotukdeals. Why such a change? We do not think we would be enabling our members to make the right purchasing decision if we allow a deal on site knowing it is cheaper elsewhere. This rule is to cover like for like products/services. Additional benefits (eg a John Lewis extended warranty) would be classed as a different deal when looking at the price etc.

Our community should be able to trust the content they see on hotukdeals and we do not think showing non market leading deals on our Hot page helps us with this mission.

We also hear your feedback that retention offers, targeted deals or local reduced to clear items should not be in the Deals section if the majority cannot benefit from these. So these will now be moved to Discussions.

We're also going to be moving megathreads/deal compilations to Discussions. We often see "heat for effort" type comments on these deals and we want to focus on hot deals! Heat should not solely be given for "effort" when the actual deal itself could be poor. When megathreads contain many products for different merchants a single vote isn't suitable for such content. For clarity, an "up to **% sale" at a single merchant with product examples is not a megathread under this rule and can stay in Deals.

I fully appreciate that some of these changes might take some time to adjust but we truly believe these changes are needed to improve our deal content quality and also how our community engages with the team, eachother and also our site.

What else have we been working on?

- Recently we've added a FAQ to site which provided answers to many of the questions you either ask in Feedback or the emails we receive. There is a discussion thread here if you wanted to provide your feedback.

- There will be a further announcement soon but we're looking to add a feature on site to filter Local deals so you do not have to see those which aren't in your area. This will be a user preference which you can set yourselves.

- Building trust and transparency on hotukdeals by providing you with the information you need to see about the site, Pepper and the team. More on that in due course.

What else are we considering?

- We are going to do some testing on the vote weight in order to give back the importance of voting. First of all we need to implement these new rules and see how we go. We'll cover this as a separate discussion to keep you looped in.



Your feedback is really important to us which is why we wanted to bring you this in advance of these rules going live.

These rules aren't fixed and we'll be reviewing them based on how we see things on site and your further feedback. Any changes to these rules will be communicated.

Thanks for reading and please let us have your thoughts
Community Updates
Misc
Top comments
FAQs

What about items which are RRP (like products launches)?
Items which are their normal selling price or RRP will be moved to Discussions under Rule 12. They can stay if there is an additional benefit (ie - MacBook Pro at RRP but you get £200 Giftcard when purchased).

How will you check if something is market leading?
Not all deals on hotukdeals will be able to have a comparison (due to conditions like refurbished etc) but when they do we'll use reputable price comparison sites. If we believe something is market leading (or the additional benefit justifies) we'll leave it on site. If another merchant beats it and we find out later it is not market leading the thread can remain on site but we'll do our best to ensure it receives less exposure (it won't be pushed to Highlights for example. Members can keep using the thread for discussion. We won't remove price matches from different merchants. We'll remove threads if within 5-10 minutes they aren't market leading but threads around an hour will remain.

Will you be proving information on minimum criteria for marketplace sellers?
Yep We're about to finalise the % and volume so once done this will be included in our communications with you.

What do you consider to be "Reduced to Clear" items?
These tend to be single offer "yellow sticker" items which are likely only available at one store and being sold to clear

What about items the same price but at a different retailer?
We wouldn't remove these as long as the price is still market leading.

What about code requests or threads where people are bound by the T&Cs of a 3rd party?
We'll allow codes to be requested in designated threads and no single code requests will be allowed. We'll make it clear in these threads that the end responsibility remains with whoever is offering the code. The same will go for threads where there is a question on whether members are breaching a 3rd party's terms (such as VPN accessible gaming deals).

Are you really going to remove all glitches or misprices?
Nope! We'll make a call based on what has been posted. In the past we've noticed patterns where something will get shared but we pull it because we suspect a hacked ebay account or the merchant is just data harvesting. In reality this will happen very rarely but we need to be able to have something we can rely on here when we ever make a decision to remove a thread.

What do you consider to be a megathread?
For the purpose of these rules we'll treat a thread with various deals from more than 1 seller as a megathread/deal compilation which we'll move to Discussions. Single seller threads with various products aren't considered a megathread and can remain in Deals.

What about Playstation Plus and Games With Gold etc?
These are fine to be shared in deals taking into account the benefits provided by the service and for how often they get shared/announced.

EDIT: From 27th July 2019 we will allow the following in Deals too (subject to trial):

Switch Online
Gamepass
Games with Gold
Playstation Plus
EA Access
Edited by: "magicjay1986" 27th Jul 2019
eslick17/07/2019 22:21

@magicjay1986 not to pick on him but will the removal of the megathread …@magicjay1986 not to pick on him but will the removal of the megathread impact deals like @Mrswitch and their cheapest phone under a price. Sorry Switchy.


Its fine, you make a valid point, I put a lot of work into those, and have actually been encouraged to do them in the past, and now I'm being told to stop all the hard work I do for the site, I'd love to know why the decision has been made to stop them @magicjay1986 you are basically taking away an area of the site I love, and am now being encouraged to post every single one of these deals as a single deal, instead of all in one nice neat place! Hence I'll now get flack for spamming the site!

Basically what you've done is, listen to the people who don't like Megathreads as those people are the loudest, but there are also a shed load of people who come onto these deals and tell me it helped them make a decision to buy. Poor show actually!
Edited by: "MrSwitch" 18th Jul 2019
Personally, I preferred the site when it was a Wild West free-for-all. Obviously I understand Pepper's reasoning, but whilst it no doubt increases revenue for you, it devalues it for buyers such as me. If I want to know the best price for a toaster, I can google it. What I want from a deal site is an alert that Tesco have mispriced them at 4p, or Amazon have a glitch whereby I can get a pallet full for a tenner.
I used to use the deals function, but IMHO there are better sites now. I used to use misc but, as you yourself say, there are better places for that. FS/FT? Gone too.
I used to log on multiple times a day - I'm probably here now once a fortnight.
Good luck with the changes, but I think that you'll alienate more existing users than you attract fresh.
.MUFC.17/07/2019 13:09

Can we have a new section where we can discuss Sky fairies and Politics?


I agree. An un-moderated section, titled 'enter at your own risk', would be great, where we can honestly say what's on our minds
Edited by: "deeky" 17th Jul 2019
1400 Comments
FAQs

What about items which are RRP (like products launches)?
Items which are their normal selling price or RRP will be moved to Discussions under Rule 12. They can stay if there is an additional benefit (ie - MacBook Pro at RRP but you get £200 Giftcard when purchased).

How will you check if something is market leading?
Not all deals on hotukdeals will be able to have a comparison (due to conditions like refurbished etc) but when they do we'll use reputable price comparison sites. If we believe something is market leading (or the additional benefit justifies) we'll leave it on site. If another merchant beats it and we find out later it is not market leading the thread can remain on site but we'll do our best to ensure it receives less exposure (it won't be pushed to Highlights for example. Members can keep using the thread for discussion. We won't remove price matches from different merchants. We'll remove threads if within 5-10 minutes they aren't market leading but threads around an hour will remain.

Will you be proving information on minimum criteria for marketplace sellers?
Yep We're about to finalise the % and volume so once done this will be included in our communications with you.

What do you consider to be "Reduced to Clear" items?
These tend to be single offer "yellow sticker" items which are likely only available at one store and being sold to clear

What about items the same price but at a different retailer?
We wouldn't remove these as long as the price is still market leading.

What about code requests or threads where people are bound by the T&Cs of a 3rd party?
We'll allow codes to be requested in designated threads and no single code requests will be allowed. We'll make it clear in these threads that the end responsibility remains with whoever is offering the code. The same will go for threads where there is a question on whether members are breaching a 3rd party's terms (such as VPN accessible gaming deals).

Are you really going to remove all glitches or misprices?
Nope! We'll make a call based on what has been posted. In the past we've noticed patterns where something will get shared but we pull it because we suspect a hacked ebay account or the merchant is just data harvesting. In reality this will happen very rarely but we need to be able to have something we can rely on here when we ever make a decision to remove a thread.

What do you consider to be a megathread?
For the purpose of these rules we'll treat a thread with various deals from more than 1 seller as a megathread/deal compilation which we'll move to Discussions. Single seller threads with various products aren't considered a megathread and can remain in Deals.

What about Playstation Plus and Games With Gold etc?
These are fine to be shared in deals taking into account the benefits provided by the service and for how often they get shared/announced.

EDIT: From 27th July 2019 we will allow the following in Deals too (subject to trial):

Switch Online
Gamepass
Games with Gold
Playstation Plus
EA Access
Edited by: "magicjay1986" 27th Jul 2019
very positive, glad to see the site sees what most of us probably also think, megathread heat added for effort even by site staff is clearly not right. The copy right one is something going to be complex, especially with all the like of microsoft keys that get posted even though they are cheap, could be valid but we all know there are examples where they are not. Also ensuring that retentions go where they are supposed to, that one always seems to end up with one mods moving them and another not. Might be an idea to have a group for those in misc

One add as it causes all the confusion if its not already there might have missed it, the fulfilled by Amazon deals, or the amount of feedback needed for ebay sellers, always causes questions.
eslick17/07/2019 11:34

very positive, glad to see the site sees what most of us probably also …very positive, glad to see the site sees what most of us probably also think, megathread heat added for effort even by site staff is clearly not right. The copy right one is something going to be complex, especially with all the like of microsoft keys that get posted even though they are cheap, could be valid but we all know there are examples where they are not. Also ensuring that retentions go where they are supposed to, that one always seems to end up with one mods moving them and another not. Might be an idea to have a group for those in misc :)One add as it causes all the confusion if its not already there might have missed it, the fulfilled by Amazon deals, or the amount of feedback needed for ebay sellers, always causes questions.



Thanks for that @eslick You're right about the marketplace feedback. We are about to settle on the requirements so as soon as we have it will be factored in to the communications (ready for 24th July launch).
Why not? If it works, it works. If it doesn't, people will get used to it, or leave for an extended period.

I agree with the "Heat for Effort" sentiment, does push deals to the top that are pretty trash. PSN or XBONE weekly sales rarely have anything of merit, bar one or 2 games.

Speaking of, will anything be done regarding the PSPLUS or GWG monthly titles? They generate a lot of "heat" yet most of the time are mediocre in offerings. It just seems like a mini fanboy war, in which of the two platforms will get the most heat each month.
darkstryder36017/07/2019 11:37

Why not? If it works, it works. If it doesn't, people will get used to …Why not? If it works, it works. If it doesn't, people will get used to it, or leave for an extended period.I agree with the "Heat for Effort" sentiment, does push deals to the top that are pretty trash. PSN or XBONE weekly sales rarely have anything of merit, bar one or 2 games.Speaking of, will anything be done regarding the PSPLUS or GWG monthly titles? They generate a lot of "heat" yet most of the time are mediocre in offerings. It just seems like a mini fanboy war, in which of the two platforms will get the most heat each month.



They would still fall under the Deal criteria (as in they aren't a megathread using our definition) so for now we'll keep them in Deals and see how we go with them. Plus for the frequency they appear on site i'm just thinking maybe we don't need an exception?
Looks good, especially for new users that may not be aware of some of the previously "unwritten" rules that had been applied. Probably needs one in there about cashback not being guaranteed so shouldn't be in the price (unless I missed it..)

Something that would also be good is a more vendor specific guidance on items so that people can understand listing practices and any nuances to a specific vendor, it also helps to make a decision on service if prices are equal and the OP forgets to add it e.g. Fulfilled by Amazon, the costs of delivery for non-prime users, extended warranties at John Lewis, student discounts.
Avatar
deleted701517
Rule No. 1 - Against the law, public order, ethic, the right of a third-party and/or our terms of use.

So, does this mean that the constant requests in Ask and Misc for student codes by people who're not students and other user-specific, non-transferable codes and vouchers will no longer be permitted? They fall under the category of ethics and infringing the rights of a third party.
My fav
We also hear your feedback that retention offers, targeted deals or local reduced to clear items should not be in the Deals section if the majority cannot benefit from these. So these will now be moved to Discussions.
M_L17/07/2019 11:48

Looks good, especially for new users that may not be aware of some of the …Looks good, especially for new users that may not be aware of some of the previously "unwritten" rules that had been applied. Probably needs one in there about cashback not being guaranteed so shouldn't be in the price (unless I missed it..)Something that would also be good is a more vendor specific guidance on items so that people can understand listing practices and any nuances to a specific vendor, it also helps to make a decision on service if prices are equal and the OP forgets to add it e.g. Fulfilled by Amazon, the costs of delivery for non-prime users, extended warranties at John Lewis, student discounts.



I'll check where (and if) it fits but that is probably a best or better practice topic we can look at in terms of where we communicate that. Right now we do it within the thread and to be perfectly honest it doesn't happen a massive amount when you consider how many deals get shared. So one of the things the team will be doing is letting the poster know what they've had to change and why. I also don't think someone will check our publication rules before they post so maybe that isn't as prominent as it would need to be.

So I hope with an increased presence on the boards the community will see notes and updates from the moderation/editorial team and know what we like to see on deals.

Amazon (and any other merchant with delivery thresholds) we'll make sure the title shows the delivered price. We are looking at whether we can do more on these types of merchants (have more information in the description explaining about Prime membership etc) to make it clearer for everyone.
deleted70151717/07/2019 11:48

Rule No. 1 - Against the law, public order, ethic, the right of a …Rule No. 1 - Against the law, public order, ethic, the right of a third-party and/or our terms of use.So, does this mean that the constant requests in Ask and Misc for student codes by people who're not students and other user-specific, non-transferable codes and vouchers will no longer be permitted? They fall under the category of ethics and infringing the rights of a third party.



Where we believe there is an eligibility which isn't being met we'll remove, yes. Be patient with us on this one though as it'll take a bit of work until we get to a point where we're on top of the different types of codes/requests etc.
A change which members are actually happy with? What a time to be alive!
awiew17/07/2019 12:10

A change which members are actually happy with? What a time to be alive! …A change which members are actually happy with? What a time to be alive!



I'm retiring at the grand old age of 32. Going out on a high. Bye guys.
magicjay198617/07/2019 12:02

We need to get to a point where the first contact/communication we have …We need to get to a point where the first contact/communication we have with you provides enough information for you to understand why we've made that decision instead of you being sent a "catch all" message. Every decision will be explained and we'll take whatever time is needed to make sure you're happy with our reasoning. Every action will be communicated (for example, when we move a thread from Deals to Discussions).


Will this be extended to having misc/ask comments removed?
deeky17/07/2019 12:18

Will this be extended to having misc/ask comments removed?



Yes. Any comments/threads we remove will be communicated with the reasons why.
The first rule states the infringement of copyright. Does this include quoting sources without the owners permission, such as information and news (which are invariably copyrighted)? I might be reading too much into the copyright rule.
38093340-oa5kC.jpgI have a questions please.

Does these mean Nike Outlet deals from Castleford would no longer be accepted as it’s a single store specific
Predikuesi17/07/2019 12:40

The first rule states the infringement of copyright. Does this include …The first rule states the infringement of copyright. Does this include quoting sources without the owners permission, such as information and news (which are invariably copyrighted)? I might be reading too much into the copyright rule.



I don't think we need to cover this. Most of these would hopefully include a source anyway.
myusernamehasgone23417/07/2019 12:44

[Image] I have a questions please. Does these mean Nike Outlet deals from …[Image] I have a questions please. Does these mean Nike Outlet deals from Castleford would no longer be accepted as it’s a single store specific



Reduced to clear would be something like a yellow sticker product in Asda which probably isn't a deal available to many people.

Nike Outlet deals would be fine and we'll be looking to re-introduce the Local Deals tool so they'd be posted under there.
magicjay198617/07/2019 12:47

Reduced to clear would be something like a yellow sticker product in Asda …Reduced to clear would be something like a yellow sticker product in Asda which probably isn't a deal available to many people. Nike Outlet deals would be fine and we'll be looking to re-introduce the Local Deals tool so they'd be posted under there.


Thanks for the quick response
I really like the idea especially going into detail so we understand something rather than some of the generic responses we get that winds me up.

A few weeks ago i posted a cracking deal for a cordless mower from swift off amazon and it got taken down without a proper response as to why.

I stopped posting deals just because i got demotivated as i thought why should i help this site make money when the site can't respect individuals enough to explain something.


"We also hear your feedback that retention offers... will now be moved to Discussions."


*APPLAUSE*
m1keyp1key17/07/2019 12:58

I really like the idea especially going into detail so we understand …I really like the idea especially going into detail so we understand something rather than some of the generic responses we get that winds me up.A few weeks ago i posted a cracking deal for a cordless mower from swift off amazon and it got taken down without a proper response as to why. I stopped posting deals just because i got demotivated as i thought why should i help this site make money when the site can't respect individuals enough to explain something.



This is the thing we want to get better at and actually implement the things you tell us aren't perfect. We never want our community to feel like their contributions aren't appreciated as they really are.
Can we have a new section where we can discuss Sky fairies and Politics?
.MUFC.17/07/2019 13:09

Can we have a new section where we can discuss Sky fairies and Politics?


I agree. An un-moderated section, titled 'enter at your own risk', would be great, where we can honestly say what's on our minds
Edited by: "deeky" 17th Jul 2019
How about a section where we can share referral codes? I've never understood this rule... you guys make enough money off us, why can't we share a little with each other too?
.MUFC.17/07/2019 13:09

Can we have a new section where we can discuss Sky fairies and Politics?



deeky17/07/2019 13:15

I agree. An un-moderated section, titled 'enter at your own risk', would …I agree. An un-moderated section, titled 'enter at your own risk', would be great, where we can honestly say what's on our minds



Nope These are the rules we have and we'll be sticking to them.

I'm sure you guys can find a more suitable forum for those types of discussions.
Poor MJ always seems to get put in control of these type of threads, I think he wears the hardest hat
another one would be check your emails
Edited by: "eslick" 17th Jul 2019
maccy1i17/07/2019 13:19

Poor MJ always seems to get put in control of these type of threads, I …Poor MJ always seems to get put in control of these type of threads, I think he wears the hardest hat



or gets paid the most edit or he should be.
Edited by: "eslick" 17th Jul 2019
eslick17/07/2019 13:19

or gets paid the most


Cynical you've been here too long
miikeyblue17/07/2019 13:16

How about a section where we can share referral codes? I've never …How about a section where we can share referral codes? I've never understood this rule... you guys make enough money off us, why can't we share a little with each other too?



I think a sitewide ban is in line with what hotukdeals is about. You start allowing referrals in any way on site and they'll creep elsewhere and it'll just be a nightmare to moderate.

The decision isn't about not allowing you guys to benefit but I think it'd be pretty detrimental to the community and content quality in time.
maccy1i17/07/2019 13:19

Poor MJ always seems to get put in control of these type of threads, I …Poor MJ always seems to get put in control of these type of threads, I think he wears the hardest hat



Look at the positivity above...i'm having the time of my life!
eslick17/07/2019 13:19

another one would be check your emails edit or at least he should.



Sorry, I don't understand?
magicjay198617/07/2019 13:31

Sorry, I don't understand?



I edited the wrong comment the first part was about those ones that say check your emails for an offer, NowTV or other unique discount which are hardly ever for everyone. Simlar to the trainline last week, got 1000s of degrees and only Op got it, added email invite to to the title about 15 hours in and it went from 1100 to 1200 in hours as no one could get it.
magicjay198617/07/2019 13:30

Look at the positivity above...i'm having the time of my life!


Give it a couple of days (hours maybe)...


38093777-3ELBV.jpg


eslick17/07/2019 13:33

I edited the wrong comment the first part was about those ones that …I edited the wrong comment the first part was about those ones that say check your emails for an offer, NowTV or other unique discount which are hardly ever for everyone. Simlar to the trainline last week, got 1000s of degrees and only Op got it, added email invite to to the title about 15 hours in and it went from 1100 to 1200 in hours as no one could get it.



There are going to be many different types of offers which we need to consider so it will take some time (and feedback from you guys) to make sure we're getting it right and on a consistent level.
No mention of non-EU deals where prices of high value items omit Customs & VAT charges?
IamMT17/07/2019 13:44

No mention of non-EU deals where prices of high value items omit Customs & …No mention of non-EU deals where prices of high value items omit Customs & VAT charges?


That is a topic which will be properly researched but as i'm sure you appreciate it won't be an easy task. So it is in mind but there isn't anything else to add on it right now.
Edited by: "magicjay1986" 17th Jul 2019
magicjay198617/07/2019 13:19

Nope These are the rules we have and we'll be sticking to them. …Nope These are the rules we have and we'll be sticking to them. I'm sure you guys can find a more suitable forum for those types of discussions.


magicjay198617/07/2019 13:47

That is a topic which will be properly researched but as i'm sure you …That is a topic which will be properly researched but as i'm sure you appreciate it won't be an easy task. So it is in mind but there isn't anything else to add on it right now.



Many thanks, the response itself brings comfort.
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