Found 13th Oct 2016
So Jimmy Cranky up north has put forward plans for a second referendum They had one she didn't like the result of that.We had a EU referendum she didn't like the result of that so let's keep on have referendums till she gets the result she wants.I take it she has never heard of democracy and it has spoken.

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anybody got any Roman plans kicking about for that wall?

I say put the wall back up and let them go alone. They put forward plans basically on monies from North Sea oil and would of been bancrupt by now.

I'm looking forward to seeing people who argued for Brexit telling Scotland why they shouldn't 'take back control'. X)

Original Poster

hutchir9

I say put the wall back up and let them go alone. They put forward plans … I say put the wall back up and let them go alone. They put forward plans basically on monies from North Sea oil and would of been bancrupt by now.



Exactly and if they did vote to leave then decided they want to come back the vote should go to England,Wales and N.Ireland whether to let them back

Original Poster

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

I'm looking forward to seeing people who argued for Brexit telling … I'm looking forward to seeing people who argued for Brexit telling Scotland why they shouldn't 'take back control'. X)



They have already had that choice and they voted against it

cwj3820

Exactly and if they did vote to leave then decided they want to come back … Exactly and if they did vote to leave then decided they want to come back the vote should go to England,Wales and N.Ireland whether to let them back



You do realise that is exactly what would happen don't you? X)

Albeit in Parliament and not an unnecessary referendum

cwj3820

They have already had that choice and they voted against it



And the possibility of Brexit means that the situation has fundamentally changed in their view.

Maybe those who lose a referendum behave the same on both sides of the border.
Edited by: "Predikuesi" 13th Oct 2016

Original Poster

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

And the possibility of Brexit means that the situation has fundamentally … And the possibility of Brexit means that the situation has fundamentally changed in their view.



Don't get me wrong if they want to go let them go just think of the money we will save not having to fund them but oil is a third of the price that it was at the last referendum so it will be interesting to see where they get the money from

I wonder if London will apply to go with them. They could form some new nation and the bits in between the two can become a Mad Max-style wasteland.

Oh, and maybe St Albans, Oxford and Cambridge too...and maybe some of the nicer parts of Surrey.
Edited by: "HotEnglishAndWelshDeals" 13th Oct 2016

cwj3820

Don't get me wrong if they want to go let them go just think of the money … Don't get me wrong if they want to go let them go just think of the money we will save not having to fund them but oil is a third of the price that it was at the last referendum so it will be interesting to see where they get the money from



​they will get their money from eu

Original Poster

shadey12

​they will get their money from eu



EU have already said they don't want them

I never understood why the UK government didn't set a condition prior to the Scottish referendum that if the vote was for remain, a certain period of time must elapse before another referendum could take place, 10 years should have been the bare minimum.

typical politician,do not like the result,try again,suppose she wins will she allow another referendum in 2 years time if enough people want to come back to us,I think not,I thought we were in a democracy if the majority win it should stay what gives her the right to change it just because she never agreed with the majority,sounds an awful lot like Dictatorship to me!!!

cwj3820

EU have already said they don't want them



More specifically Spain doesn't want them due to the parallels between Scotland and Catalonia. As the membership of any new nation to the EU requires the unanimous agreement of all existing members an independent Scotland would be screwed in that regard.

Sturgeon is a menace. Like the kid in class who keeps asking questions when the bell for lunchtime has already gone.

Can't fault her perseverance but it makes a bit of a mockery out of the democratic process which was already a no to independence. Hope it backfires on her but wouldn't be bothered either way to be honest if another referendum came around for the Scots.

She is right to have a referendum, whether we like it or not or think very bad or good of it, last time it was whether to be part of UK which is a part of EU.
.
It is like a "membership" to UK and then within this membership, being a member of EU as well.
.
Say, you joined up a sports club because it has access to some additional sporting facilities as this club belongs to a super club. But if club that you joined is out of the super club (without those additional sporting facilities anymore), then it is reasonable to reconsider one's membership.
.
And moreover, she is NOT the Scottish nation, she is a servant and elected representative of the Scottish people, so they (the voters) tell her what to do, and they do.
Edited by: "splender" 13th Oct 2016

Sturgeon is clinging to the independence campaign as this is the only way that the SNP will keep voters. People in Scotland are quickly realising that they dont do anything to benefit anyone but themselves and they are losing supporters every day.

And during the referendum campaign it was uncertain whether an independent Scotland would be accepted into the EU so her Brexit argument is invalid due to the fact that the independent Scotland that she dreams of is not and was not guaranteed EU membership.

Perhaps we could constantly fund an underperforming country with a higher than average rate of alcoholism and unemployment - oh that doesn't suit the Turgid Sturgoid.

Well perhaps just do one Sturgeon, you aren't interested in the Scottish people but your own ego trip in shaking your fist at the globally respected capital.

splender

She is right to have a referendum, whether we like it or not or think … She is right to have a referendum, whether we like it or not or think very bad or good of it, last time it was whether to be part of UK which is a part of EU. .It is like a "membership" to UK and then within this membership, being a member of EU as well. .Say, you joined up a sports club because it has access to some additional sporting facilities as this club belongs to a super club. But if club that you joined is out of the super club (without those additional sporting facilities anymore), then it is reasonable to reconsider one's membership..And moreover, she is NOT the Scottish nation, she is a servant and elected representative of the Scottish people, so they (the voters) tell her what to do, and they do.


But how many referendums should she have till she gets the answer she wants

archer1204

But how many referendums should she have till she gets the answer she … But how many referendums should she have till she gets the answer she wants


WIth Switzerland for example, they have referenda all the time, it is arguably another method of direct democracy. Nothing wrong with referendum if there is a fundamentall change. It is a big fundamental change to be in EU or not, without a doubt it is a big fundamental change, that's why there was a referendum for us.
.

hutchir9

I say put the wall back up and let them go alone. They put forward plans … I say put the wall back up and let them go alone. They put forward plans basically on monies from North Sea oil and would of been bancrupt by now.



Haha you clearly know what you are on about

en.m.wikipedia.org/wik…and

splender

WIth Switzerland for example, they have referenda all the time, it is … WIth Switzerland for example, they have referenda all the time, it is arguably another method of direct democracy. Nothing wrong with referendum if there is a fundamentall change. It is a big fundamental change to be in EU or not, without a doubt it is a big fundamental change, that's why there was a referendum for us..


Yes but first do switzerland your example have referendum all the time but are they asking the same question or is it on a breadth of subjects which if you check it is then your example is invalid.Show me a country that has numerous referendums but it is the same question being repeated again and again.

Obviously there are strong arguments against Scotland gaining independence, and there are many experts who would attest to that. But expertise and rational debate really can't compare to.....

Take Back Control! X)

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

And the possibility of Brexit means that the situation has fundamentally … And the possibility of Brexit means that the situation has fundamentally changed in their view.



It could rain and she would argue things were fundamentally different than last time. Can't we send her to Diego Garcia with a Hood over her head for a month.

I found Sturgeons autobiography in a charity shop https://s18.postimg.org/ib6hh2bo5/FB_IMG_1476361284103.jpg

archer1204

Yes but first do switzerland your example have referendum all the time … Yes but first do switzerland your example have referendum all the time but are they asking the same question or is it on a breadth of subjects which if you check it is then your example is invalid.Show me a country that has numerous referendums but it is the same question being repeated again and again.


You may have a point as the question was, "Should Scotland be an independent country?" in this multi-faceted constitutional crisis.
.
However the assumption was , while in EU and all things being equal, as the European Union Referendum Act 2015 came after.
.
But as any "union", very difficult to be eating at the the same table, if one partner wants to leave, even if one had decided to stay together earlier.

splender

You may have a point as the question was, "Should Scotland be an … You may have a point as the question was, "Should Scotland be an independent country?" in this multi-faceted constitutional crisis..However the assumption was , while in EU and all things being equal, as the European Union Referendum Act 2015 came after..But as any "union", very difficult to be eating at the the same table, if one partner wants to leave, even if one had decided to stay together earlier.


Good glad we sorted that one out.

Let Scotland have Independence, It would be them that lose out. Sure they could negotiate a way into the EU but they would suffer. We'd have to build a bigger wall.!.

I say let them have their referendum, she'd prob end up with egg on her face as they'd prob stay

I'm pleased to hear we're getting a second referendum. I've been hoping for one since the EU referendum result came through. It didn't really make sense to leave the UK first time around, but as it is now, the UK is a sinking ship which has just voted to destroy some of its most important and profitable industries, so I'll be quite happy for us to split from the UK, rejoin the EU, and play host to all those workers and businesses that won't be able to exist in a non-EU state like England.

dxx

I'm pleased to hear we're getting a second referendum. I've been hoping … I'm pleased to hear we're getting a second referendum. I've been hoping for one since the EU referendum result came through. It didn't really make sense to leave the UK first time around, but as it is now, the UK is a sinking ship which has just voted to destroy some of its most important and profitable industries, so I'll be quite happy for us to split from the UK, rejoin the EU, and play host to all those workers and businesses that won't be able to exist in a non-EU state like England.



I was vehemently against Scotland leaving last time. I love the country and it's a massive part of British culture and identity but I absolutely understand the sentiment you've expressed.

Truth is that there's people in London and other metropolitan areas of the country who would understand. There's not a massive shift in the voting required to get a yes vote either so I think it's likely.

shauneco

Let Scotland have Independence, It would be them that lose out. Sure they … Let Scotland have Independence, It would be them that lose out. Sure they could negotiate a way into the EU but they would suffer. We'd have to build a bigger wall.!.


and they would blame the rUK forever more, mindless nutters drive the independence campaign based on a great film, the reality is that being part of the UK brings Scotland far greater compensation!

Original Poster

Maybe it's because she wants to be known as President Sturgeon and not First Minister Sturgeon

dxx

I'm pleased to hear we're getting a second referendum. I've been hoping … I'm pleased to hear we're getting a second referendum. I've been hoping for one since the EU referendum result came through. It didn't really make sense to leave the UK first time around, but as it is now, the UK is a sinking ship which has just voted to destroy some of its most important and profitable industries, so I'll be quite happy for us to split from the UK, rejoin the EU, and play host to all those workers and businesses that won't be able to exist in a non-EU state like England.



That would be good for all, The remainiacs wouldn't have to move far.!, Sadly though Scotland joining the EU wouldn't happen overnight, It could take decades, In the mean time how could they sustain themselves? with no NHS etc.. etc..

If Scotland stays in the EU it will make the English border control impossible.

What the people of the UK don't understand its not only about independence its about ruling our own futures and getting rid of the Torys who along with others would have lost the yes / no referendum last time but for the last minute promises and lies they said they would give to Scotland if the people of Scotland voted remain.

This one of the main reasons there is no longer any viable Labour party in Scotland and may never be one again.

What I and others fail to understand is why Scotland would want to be free to make there own way, yet on the other hand they now claim they want to remain in the EU who will make decisions for Scotland if they remain.

Scotland is a rich country with free personal care for over 65, free education for all, no bedroom tax, no benefit cap as these are fully covered by the Scottish parliament who are the only ones helping in this area.

Original Poster

bigbill

What the people of the UK don't understand its not only about … What the people of the UK don't understand its not only about independence its about ruling our own futures and getting rid of the Torys who along with others would have lost the yes / no referendum last time but for the last minute promises and lies they said they would give to Scotland if the people of Scotland voted remain. This one of the main reasons there is no longer any viable Labour party in Scotland and may never be one again. What I and others fail to understand is why Scotland would want to be free to make there own way, yet on the other hand they now claim they want to remain in the EU who will make decisions for Scotland if they remain. Scotland is a rich country with free personal care for over 65, free education for all, no bedroom tax, no benefit cap as these are fully covered by the Scottish parliament who are the only ones helping in this area.



Yes and you only get that because the rest of the Uk pays for it
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