Northern Rail trains cancelled ?=>( because of shortage of drivers ) <=?

16
Found 22nd MayEdited by:"splender"
"because of shortage of drivers" is a symptom of a root cause problem,

but why does the newsnot report on the problem?

example news report (Manchester Evening News)

Usually, the root cause is due to the manager rather the thing that is controlled by the manager.

This is because one fixes the problem rather than the symptom.

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I find that the news reports institutionally the symptoms rather than the root cause problems across the board, If we don't publicise the root causes, how do other people know how to take measures to prevent the root cause problems?!

To all budding and current journalists, ask any spokesperson these:-

"What do you know as the root cause problem?

"Who anticipated this problem and what was done?"

"Was this possibility listed in the change control manager's planning log, issues log, risks log?" ==> "What was done after having identified the risk(s) ?

To handle the issue of "there will be lessons learned", ask , "Why do you employ exceutives who need to learn lessons as students do?"

etc.
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16 Comments
Sounds like SNAFU, thanks for sharing.
Do we really need to know why as we go about our busy lives? We just need to know there is a problem and trust that the company will work to resolve it. If every company has to constantly explain every issue in detail that takes away from resources they have to deal with resolving the issue. Let the reason be reported afterwards when it’s resolved as it normally is.

They can do (I.e work to fix the problem) or they can teach (put all their resources into making sure all the people understand fully the problem and slow down the response to resolving the problem).
cmdr_elito11 m ago

Do we really need to know why as we go about our busy lives? We just need …Do we really need to know why as we go about our busy lives? We just need to know there is a problem and trust that the company will work to resolve it. If every company has to constantly explain every issue in detail that takes away from resources they have to deal with resolving the issue. Let the reason be reported afterwards when it’s resolved as it normally is.They can do (I.e work to fix the problem) or they can teach (put all their resources into making sure all the people understand fully the problem and slow down the response to resolving the problem).



I didn't say "If every company has to constantly explain every issue in detail that takes away from resources."

A root cause problem could be stated as, " We had a quota on the number of drivers." ( <= an example)

"The Finance Director had a budget cap on training and recuritment." ( <== another example)
By "shortage of drivers", do you mean they they were too small and couldn't reach the pedals?
Derek_Horatio_Shatwell23 m ago

By "shortage of drivers", do you mean they they were too small and …By "shortage of drivers", do you mean they they were too small and couldn't reach the pedals?



There is a mass shortage of Oopaloopas right now.
Trump has hired them all to give him have an army of Mini-Me's
Oneday7732 m ago

There is a mass shortage of Oopaloopas right now.Trump has hired them all …There is a mass shortage of Oopaloopas right now.Trump has hired them all to give him have an army of Mini-Me's


You are just being silly now!
If they paid drivers a fair day's pay for a fair day's work they wouldn't be in the position they now find themselves in.
deeky4 m ago

If they paid drivers a fair day's pay for a fair day's work they wouldn't …If they paid drivers a fair day's pay for a fair day's work they wouldn't be in the position they now find themselves in.


I thought train drivers were on 40k plus? Many people drive vans or buses for less than 25k
Edited by: "cmdr_elito" 22nd May
cmdr_elito9 m ago

I thought train drivers were on 40k plus? Many people drive vans or buses …I thought train drivers were on 40k plus? Many people drive vans or buses for less than 25k


In comparison to other TOCs, Northern are the poor relations. Northern are the only company recruit and train a significant number of 'off the street' new drivers. What happens is, they get trained up by Northern then feck off to another TOC, who only recruit qualified drivers, on much better pay. Northern staff have been fighting for a decent driver retention deal that would stop drivers wanting to go elsewhere, but it seems Northern are happy to keep losing drivers as it is.
deeky9 m ago

In comparison to other TOCs, Northern are the poor relations. Northern are …In comparison to other TOCs, Northern are the poor relations. Northern are the only company recruit and train a significant number of 'off the street' new drivers. What happens is, they get trained up by Northern then feck off to another TOC, who only recruit qualified drivers, on much better pay. Northern staff have been fighting for a decent driver retention deal that would stop drivers wanting to go elsewhere, but it seems Northern are happy to keep losing drivers as it is.


deek can you not come out of retirement and save the day?
brilly54 m ago

deek can you not come out of retirement and save the day?


About 25 years premature there mate. Come back then and ask me
deeky1 h, 42 m ago

If they paid drivers a fair day's pay for a fair day's work they wouldn't …If they paid drivers a fair day's pay for a fair day's work they wouldn't be in the position they now find themselves in.


a definition of 'fair' varies. Firemen/women, teachers, doctors and nurses turn up out of a pride in their job despite low pay rather than just take days off out of a feeling of not getting enough cash.
So do we. Most of us, anyway. The vast majority are grateful for our lot. We can't control the greedy ones. I'm not going to say we deserve any more than those you mention, but what would you have us do? We can only drive one train at a time.
cmdr_elito8 h, 16 m ago

I thought train drivers were on 40k plus? Many people drive vans or buses …I thought train drivers were on 40k plus? Many people drive vans or buses for less than 25k



£20k to £60k according to the National Careers Service

Guardian says £24,024 rising to £39,372 after the training period, while experienced drivers earn £50,451 in 2013.

Allabout Careers Trainee drivers tend to earn between £20,000 and £30,000 a year, which is dependent on the firm that you’re working for and the level of training you’re currently working at. Once qualified, however, earnings can rise to between £35,000 and £55,000

You'll usually work a 35-hour week. This could be spread over 4 or 5 shifts including weekends, evenings and nights.

A
t Manchester Victoria , the salary steps as was 2016 were:-


£20k trainee
£36k just qualified
£40k
£44k
Edited by: "splender" 22nd May
cmdr_elito13 h, 1 m ago

I thought train drivers were on 40k plus? Many people drive vans or buses …I thought train drivers were on 40k plus? Many people drive vans or buses for less than 25k



davewave11 h, 23 m ago

a definition of 'fair' varies. Firemen/women, teachers, doctors and nurses …a definition of 'fair' varies. Firemen/women, teachers, doctors and nurses turn up out of a pride in their job despite low pay rather than just take days off out of a feeling of not getting enough cash.



Defintion of a fair wage needs to satisfy this criterion for sustainability and for sake of operational efficiency of humans:-

Amount that has 80% plus probability of saving enough pension to live at 66 years of age. On the basis that people work from 21-66= 45 years.

If wages are at rates which are impossible yo save enough pension, either these jobs get axed or wages need to go up. This is because the 30-50 years, a sample age range, would need to live come 2044 to 2054. They need to live on what they saved as pensions.

If wages go up, then only costs would come down to make higher wages viable: lower rent (which in turn means lower land price and property capital cost), higher productivity, people are not deployed to do useless low value jobs like making coffee for people because making coffee for others is a wasteful job => say, in London, there is hardly any in-country born people doing these wasteful, low productivity jobs.

If coffee making and peeling oranges, dice them to make fruit salads etc., are needed because they are essential services then coffee baristas, sandwich makers and orange peelers should be paid £50,000 so they start to contribute decent taxes to build up this country's infrastructure and public services. Then price up the coffees, fruit salads, sandwiches at these wages, then we don't have to moan about them not contributing enough taxes and using our limited NHS and Public services. Or more important, subsidised by welfare benefits to make these wasteful jobs viable.

After all, most workers are not the wealth generating enough, they don't make enough for this country's national public services to justify vast number of outsourced domestic servants making coffees, peeling oranges, delivering your £10 pizzas, £20 Amazon order, washing your baby leaf salads...and takeaway food for them. They should be doing these personal jobs themselves, like bringing coffee in a vacuum flask, make their own sandwiches for work.

This is social economics for you.
Edited by: "splender" 22nd May
Not confined to northern noticed arriva or it might have been gwr using this as an excuse a few weeks ago.
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