Notre Dam gone up in smoke

40
Posted 15th Apr
Seems to the result of careless work persons on restorations.

Gonna be some major work to repair that once the fire persons have done their jobs.

Hope no one had any visits planned in the near future.

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I had a hunch something was wrong
Far too early to be apportioning blame(but when did that ever stop people)

a real cultural tragedy.
Can't believe some of the joke comments on this thread.
Wonder if disney will release this sequel
40 Comments
Rest of Paris is burning.
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I had a hunch something was wrong
More Gillet Orange Smoke (please imagine the accent) than Jaune
Far too early to be apportioning blame(but when did that ever stop people)

a real cultural tragedy.
Bet the whole thing collapses. This is bringing back memories of the exeter fires (Royal Clarence).
Wonder if disney will release this sequel
I call arson
I’m going to Paris next month.
I have been to notre dam twice in the past but was going to take my two children for their first time to see it, so really gutted here.
its a massive tragedy as it was a stunning building
So sad
hope they evacuated the artwork inside
Gav579 m ago

The Bells.


In before me
37472197-naj59.jpgI was there last year

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Edited by: ".MUFC." 15th Apr
Can't believe some of the joke comments on this thread.
I know who are at fault, because they would have carried out daily assessment and signed off but they will probably get away with doing no wrong after an extensive future investigation, they are too powerful to have failed or could have failed because they followed exactly the management procedures which they designed and crafted.

The people at fault if the fire was accidental or was due to an unexpected fire :-

1. Director of Fire Safety and Control for not having had implemented control and sprinkler system because...s/he points the finger to the Finance Director who then point the finger to Director of Heritage and Conservation who ...so on in a circular way...with no single person or single group being overall responsible.

2. Project Director for the restoration maintenance due to risks which were identified but the risks were not all eliminated.

3. The French fire bridgade for inadequate response for a building of such large scale, but, they followed all the correct procedures but they were never asked to prepare a fire Notre Dames and never did a model fire simulation in a laboratory because "it was unlikely" but NO director did this easy possibility, "Prior to restoration using a lot of disturbance and power gear, let us do a fire simulation and see how a fire could be controlled in the event of it breaking out."

4. Those directors were were told of unknown fire risks but decided not to take sufficient water hydrants and fire fighting machinery on standby inside the Notre Dame. Namely, they were told there could be an unexpected fire, they were asked whether to spend the money to be on stand-by for the unexpected.

5. Some materials were used in the roof and these had the signed-offs by directors who knew something about tthe materials, however, the materials used are to fire specifications but not as a whole "system" because the director of fire safety never asked for a whole system fire test.

The people at fault if the fire was not accidental (similar points as to above) :-

1. Director of Fire Safety and Control for reason of risks not mitigated but were all signed off by various directors.

2. Project Director for the restoration maintenance due to risks which were identified but the risks were not all eliminated or some contractor did something which s/he was not supposed to.

3. The French fire bridgade for inadequate response for a building of such large scale, but, they followed all the correct procedures but they were never asked to prepare a fire Notre Dames and never did a model fire simulation in a laboratory because "it was unlikely" but NO director did this easy possibility, "Prior to restoration using a lot of disturbance and power gear, let us do a fire simulation and see how a fire could be controlled in the event of it breaking out."

4. Those directors were were told of unknown fire risks but decided not to take sufficient water hydrants and fire fighting machinery on standby inside the Notre Dame. Namely, they were told there could be an unexpected fire, they were asked whether to spend the money to be on stand-by for the unexpected.

5. Some materials were used in the roof and these had the signed-offs by directors who knew something about tthe materials, however, the materials used are to fire specifications but not as a whole "system" because the director of fire safety never asked for a whole system fire test.
As for what I had written above, I bet you, for a large scale fire due to accident or no accident.

Do we even have a process chart revealed to the public which documents named directors who are absolutely and personally liable for, say, should the House of Parliament or any landmark building ever got burned down.

Say,

1. Fire to roof , if it is accidental, it is Mr A
2. Fire to roof , if it is not accidental, it is Mr B
3. During restoration, if it is accidental, it is Mr A plus Director of Restoration
...
and so on.

Plus who hold and decide the budget for various risks in the corporate risk register plus site risk register..and so on.

You will find, no one senior executive who holds budgets on fire expenditure put his/her name to specific fire scenarios, prior to future fires. Say, it is easy for a fire technician to draft 500 possible scenarios of fire, you will not find many scenarios taken on by executive names.

What I am saying is, the risk register's itemised, anticipated, fire scenarios do not have a named budget holder and a named budget executor.

Let me use another example:-

Say, the "drone" attack at Gatwick last Christmas.

The risk register has itemised, anticipated, drone attack scenarios, do you know who the named budget holder is and who is the named budget executor in taking measures in drone attacks. Can you do crowd funding to appoint a batch of civil servants and engineers under oath of secrecy to audit the named people of their professionalism and competence in their protection of travellers' interests and safety?
Edited by: "splender" 15th Apr
deleted70151715/04/2019 22:01

Comment deleted



To think that you can write to the French government and save them money is naive to the extreme.
My neighbour has written a few 10-page letters to the House of Commons, Cabinet Office, about his proposed solutions to Brexit, they never replied as yet. Do they even listen to easy money saving schemes from me like: don't spend millions to contract with a ferry company to do Brexit cargo shipping across the British Channel because they company directors had no experience and the company did not own a single ship and never did any operation; don't outsource the NHS to private companies, build tens of thousands of houses to help people without houses...blah blah

The French lawyers want their cut as well, the due legal process will probably take years as it is billions of euros at stake, no one will own up like at coming Easter, it is me, guv, fair cop (no matter what I tell them that I know who ), I take it on the chin and pay out billions (unless it is the French taxpayers' money).

. In any event, "they "(no name individual but said in the BBC News) have already announced my point number 2. as first suspects.
Edited by: "splender" 15th Apr
farmlama1 h, 50 m ago

I’m going to Paris next month. I have been to notre dam twice in the past b …I’m going to Paris next month. I have been to notre dam twice in the past but was going to take my two children for their first time to see it, so really gutted here.its a massive tragedy as it was a stunning building


Not as gutted as the cathedral will be by the time the fire is out.
Wongy1103 h, 23 m ago

Far too early to be apportioning blame(but when did that ever stop …Far too early to be apportioning blame(but when did that ever stop people)a real cultural tragedy.



We know who they are, but they are not going to say, it is me, me, me tomorrow to get the blame.

Just like big deals like Brexit, Grenfell, Windrush, Garden Bridge, horse meat, Carillion.. we as individuals have our own favourite names as to who are to be blamed. The blame does not stick on them though.


Edit:

The news I heard has named the restoration work ==> this means the Directors of Fire Safety and the Project Director for restoration. The next step is to interrogate their sign-offs of restoration fire procedure and risk mitigation plus daily risk assesssments and what they did or didn't do specifically for new known/unknown fire risks. In addition, the director responsible for joining up the dots of existing site fire risks and materials and the new risks by introuding a new "system", the restoration. (Drawing on the experience of previous huge fires. the current site conditions were developed and known for many years, however, during a site change, such as that during a major restoration, new aspects are brought in such as electrical equipment, heavy gear, above normal usage in amperes of current, hot spots etc.. there was a person would would have signed off the introduction of these new aspects in the current site envirobnment.)
Edited by: "splender" 15th Apr
JohnnyUtah15/04/2019 21:35

Can't believe some of the joke comments on this thread.


I was thinking the same thing. It’s a massive loss for so many. I know it’s only a building but it was special to so many and had so much history and is a huge loss to the world. It has been a massive icon in France and is important to catholics, and important to those who have visited from elsewhere even if not religious, it has been special to children who have seen the Disney movies, or to other people in the world who wished to visit one day or who admired it from afar.Even if they rebuild, it will never be the same, so it truly is a loss. But hey let’s make stupid jokes online because we have no sense of respect.
Holy Smoke!
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deleted701517
farmlama15 m ago

I was thinking the same thing. It’s a massive loss for so many. I know i …I was thinking the same thing. It’s a massive loss for so many. I know it’s only a building but it was special to so many and had so much history and is a huge loss to the world. It has been a massive icon in France and is important to catholics, and important to those who have visited from elsewhere even if not religious, it has been special to children who have seen the Disney movies, or to other people in the world who wished to visit one day or who admired it from afar.Even if they rebuild, it will never be the same, so it truly is a loss. But hey let’s make stupid jokes online because we have no sense of respect.



People deal with catastrophe and tragedy in different ways. I've lived and worked in Paris and Notre Dame was just there. It's a sad sad loss. Macron seems determined it will be rebuilt though as it has many times over its long life. The phoenix will rise from the ashes.
Given how much lead was on the roof I would be concerned for anyone who inhaled any smoke.
farmlama15/04/2019 22:53

I was thinking the same thing. It’s a massive loss for so many. I know i …I was thinking the same thing. It’s a massive loss for so many. I know it’s only a building but it was special to so many and had so much history and is a huge loss to the world. It has been a massive icon in France and is important to catholics, and important to those who have visited from elsewhere even if not religious, it has been special to children who have seen the Disney movies, or to other people in the world who wished to visit one day or who admired it from afar.Even if they rebuild, it will never be the same, so it truly is a loss. But hey let’s make stupid jokes online because we have no sense of respect.


Ne pète pas plus haut que ton cul... Dark humour is even more important to French culture than this iconic building is. Those most affected will be saying far worse (and far funnier) right now.
Rubisco15/04/2019 23:37

Ne pète pas plus haut que ton cul... Dark humour is even more important to …Ne pète pas plus haut que ton cul... Dark humour is even more important to French culture than this iconic building is. Those most affected will be saying far worse (and far funnier) right now.


Don’t get me wrong, I am someone who tries to laugh at life. But I think there is a time to also respect a situation. When the building is still in flames and the overall outcome is unknown and a country, a religion and many others are devistated I think it’s definately a case of “too soon”
farmlama7 h, 16 m ago

Don’t get me wrong, I am someone who tries to laugh at life. But I think t …Don’t get me wrong, I am someone who tries to laugh at life. But I think there is a time to also respect a situation. When the building is still in flames and the overall outcome is unknown and a country, a religion and many others are devistated I think it’s definately a case of “too soon”


It’s just a building.
farmlama15/04/2019 23:54

Don’t get me wrong, I am someone who tries to laugh at life. But I think t …Don’t get me wrong, I am someone who tries to laugh at life. But I think there is a time to also respect a situation. When the building is still in flames and the overall outcome is unknown and a country, a religion and many others are devistated I think it’s definately a case of “too soon”


It's not a person, it hasn't got feelings but it is very sad. A very sad loss to the world, Not just France. I wouldn't take offence. They're bound to crack jokes but I am sure they still understand what a loss it is.
.MUFC.1 h, 20 m ago

it hasn't got feelings but it is very sad



Make up your mind
splender15/04/2019 22:01

.Let me use another example:-Say, the "drone" attack at Gatwick last ….Let me use another example:-Say, the "drone" attack at Gatwick last Christmas.


I don't believe there actually was any drones flying at Gatwick last Christmas.
alex197216/04/2019 10:19

I don't believe there actually was any drones flying at Gatwick last …I don't believe there actually was any drones flying at Gatwick last Christmas.


Was it aliens?
CoeK16/04/2019 10:21

Was it aliens?


Have you misspelt your username?
alex197216/04/2019 10:24

Have you misspelt your username?


Heard that one before. It was crap then too.
CoeK16/04/2019 10:29

Heard that one before.


I'm not too surprised to be honest.

Oh and no, not Aliens. If it were, I'm quite sure there would have been plenty of evidence of flying saucers plastered over the news and internet.

Meanwhile, the fire has been extinguished and like they first reported yesterday when this thread was posted, the renovation work is repeadely being suggested as the most probable cause.
What happened, the media seem to not want to report it.
Wonder if the insurance will accept it was an act of god?
davewave1 h, 13 m ago

What happened, the media seem to not want to report it.


No evidence of arson has been well reported - not sure what media you're reading.
theguardian.com/wor…ion

Astonishing bravery has saved many items and a large part of an immensely important historical building.

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£600M pledged for the rebuild. Macron making promises for completion within 5 years!! One way to increase popularity I guess.
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