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    OAPs to suffer as well under cuts?

    The IEA think tank believes the elderly have received 'special treatment' and are more or less exempt from the cuts, while young people and families have been hit with tuition fees, tax rises and changes to child benefit.

    The IEA estimates that £1.3bn could be saved by abolishing free bus travel for OAPs, £700m by stopping free television licences and £2.1bn from scrapping the winter fuel allowance.

    It says a further £5.6bn could be found by abandoning above-inflation increases to the state pension, and £5bn from raising the pension age to 66 in 2015 instead of 2020 as currently planned.

    Surprising given the over45 demographic hold the real spending power and voting power and the above perks for being old were probably politically motivated anyways.

    Raising the pension age makes sense to me given the ever increasing rise of our life expectancy which needs to be paid for.
    Also the noughties boom where they suffered but also benefited, it was their choices and oversight/judgement which saw the noughties boom and bust, not the youth of Britain.

    I find it hard to disgree with the think tank fundamentally... albeit the bankers will never really be punished, watch the documentary "Inside Job" narrated by Matt Damon.


    Although alot of retired people have the option to emigrate, if they can and want to, most young British people can't with current economy.

    34 Comments

    It doesn't even have to be this drastic - why not give half-price TV licenses.Again, half-price bus travel will save more money since some pensioners that I know use this free travel to have a day out at the seaside, whereas if they had to pay half the fare they would think twice before jumping on the bus, but still give those that want to travel a discount!
    Not sure about raising the pension age so quickly as some people have budgetted accordingly for their old age.

    Any country that cannot look after the most vulnerable part of society properly has failed miserably.

    Remember, everybody will get old some day.

    Banned

    We are all in it together....lol

    This is what many of you voted for....well done

    This was posted alot before the election, and it was poo poo'd

    No watch and see how true it was.

    youtube.com/wat…OHc
    Edited by: "slamdunkin" 24th Feb 2011

    one of the most vulnerable part of society imho is carers and the person they are caring for..... i speak to many many carers often and they are having vital services cut left right and centre, im lucky i have fantastic family and friends support but a lot of carers dont

    take my friend for example...

    cares for her 2 autistic boys, yet only gets carers allowance once (one claim of CA per claimant)
    if she were to put them in find suitable childcare im sure it would cost a hell of a lot more than £53.90 pw

    yet when she asks for respite she is given 2 hours a week!!!! Yet she cares day and nite
    pure madness

    Edited by: "ilovepink" 24th Feb 2011

    If house prices were brought to sensible levels then the country might be ok as more people in their early twenties could afford to buy and become more independant. Unfortunately we're in a situation where alot of people have to stay at home until they are 25-30 to be able to get property, which also equals independance.

    The general reason for the house price boom is so the banks (and government?) can say how strong the country is financially. It's easier to inflate house prices and therefore value and say the country is prospering than to create manufacturing jobs and industry that gets people working and generating revenue via tax which also funds services.

    No matter who gets in to government the fundamental issues are:
    1. More manufacturing and "dirty" jobs are required as opposed to office based jobs
    2. House prices need bringing in to line with actual value.

    Sort those out and people will want to work and have a realistic aim to work for which in turn will generate revenue.

    We should encourage industry but we dont.

    Banned

    Inactive

    Any country that cannot look after the most vulnerable part of society … Any country that cannot look after the most vulnerable part of society properly has failed miserably.Remember, everybody will get old some day.



    Apparently these OAPs didn't remember that they would get old, otherwise they wouldn't have to rely on state handouts.

    As for the vulnerable, the one thing the financial crisis showed us is that WE ARE ALL VULNERABLE. We have a population who are living longer (thanks medicine) but working less. People my age won't get a state pension - the sooner we all accept this and raise the age of retirement about 10 years, the better.

    FilthAndFurry

    Apparently these OAPs didn't remember that they would get old, otherwise … Apparently these OAPs didn't remember that they would get old, otherwise they wouldn't have to rely on state handouts..



    Many of them went through a World War to give you the freedom to even write that.

    A Pension is not a " state handout " it has been paid for via NI contributions over many years.

    Inactive

    Many of them went through a World War to give you the freedom to even … Many of them went through a World War to give you the freedom to even write that.A Pension is not a " state handout " it has been paid for via NI contributions over many years.


    So by your reasoning then its ok for expats living in Spain etc etc to get fuel allowance because some served our country?

    more handouts than just a pension and would be daft not to look at it all

    Perhaps if we stopped all state handouts,NHS care etc to all immigrants then we wouldnt have to worry about not being able to take care of our elderly population whom the majority of have worked all their lives to pay for what they expect to receive now.

    If immigrants cant afford to live here and want handouts then tough tit,pack your bags because you are going back.


    in b4 usual Leicester hate followed by "good point boothy"






    ****the above post has been made in black to show I am not a racist****

    Edited by: "boothy" 24th Feb 2011

    Not a bad thing. The fact there are so many old folk is one of the root causes of the financial meltdown.

    This could potentially invoke an involuntary cull, a sneaky move by the Tories.

    Banned

    Inactive

    A Pension is not a " state handout " it has been paid for via NI … A Pension is not a " state handout " it has been paid for via NI contributions over many years.



    Precisely.

    numptyj

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1360037/Nigerian-Olaide-Taiwo-stole-350-IDs-claim-1-3m-benefits.html



    Inb4 its the dailymail, so the £1.3M he stole doesnt count............

    I wouldnt say those who are 60+ years are a cause of anything bad towards this country. It's a section of society aged 30+ that have been on benefits for years and years and never worked as opposed to the OAPS with heating allowance.

    Same as the argument of "letting people in", if those let in work then I'm all for it but coming here and not working and sending benefits back to eastern european countries I'm firmly against!
    Edited by: "super_leeds_86" 24th Feb 2011

    the elderly have paid their part in society. Assuming that they didnt take excessively more than their NI contributions over their working years (and id rather not calculate that tbh), I think we should leave them out of this.

    Banned

    Artonox

    the elderly have paid their part in society. Assuming that they didnt … the elderly have paid their part in society. Assuming that they didnt take excessively more than their NI contributions over their working years (and id rather not calculate that tbh), I think we should leave them out of this.



    You can't make blanket statements like that - who knows how much they paid in?

    One thing we DO know is that people are statistically living much longer than they did when the pensions system started, yet the age of retirement hasn't increased accordingly. It needs to go up to at least 70.

    Maybe we need to make people carry their own weight in society a bit more - the worldwide population is dangerously high. Do we need to carry those on DLA?


    Artonox

    the elderly have paid their part in society. Assuming that they didnt … the elderly have paid their part in society. Assuming that they didnt take excessively more than their NI contributions over their working years (and id rather not calculate that tbh), I think we should leave them out of this.

    Artonox

    the elderly have paid their part in society. Assuming that they didnt … the elderly have paid their part in society. Assuming that they didnt take excessively more than their NI contributions over their working years (and id rather not calculate that tbh), I think we should leave them out of this.



    The amount of state pension that a person gets is relative to the amount of NI payments that they have made over the years.

    Banned

    FilthAndFurry

    Do we need to carry those on DLA?



    I'm surprised you didnt get at least a nibble on that one!

    Ok, so their NI covers state pension but free tv, free travel and free heating? Problem with all three of these is that all oaps get them even if they have loads of money.

    Banned

    stewby

    Ok, so their NI covers state pension but free tv, free travel and free … Ok, so their NI covers state pension but free tv, free travel and free heating? Problem with all three of these is that all oaps get them even if they have loads of money.



    Which is why we at least need to raise the age of retirement.

    I'd also be for cutting benefits, which is what this government actually seems to be willing to do. I personally don't understand how some people are willing just to exist, rather than live and try and make something of themselves.

    FilthAndFurry

    Which is why we at least need to raise the age of retirement. I'd also be … Which is why we at least need to raise the age of retirement. I'd also be for cutting benefits, which is what this government actually seems to be willing to do. I personally don't understand how some people are willing just to exist, rather than live and try and make something of themselves.



    What really worries me are the 16-21 year olds of today. Those that I teach really do seem happy just to exist and IMO most will contribute sfa to the economy yet will be happy to drain every last penny they can. Teenagers of today seem to have a general apathy to life. Of course not all teenagers, but a he'll of a lot

    So we have an ageing population with the "new blood" not making anywhere near the contributions needed to keep the economy going or keep oaps

    Edited by: "stewby" 24th Feb 2011

    It does sound sometimes on here that there are people who want a mass cull on people who have been made redundant, are old or ill. Hate to break it to you, but we all get old, the ill don't want to be ill and those that get made redundant don't want to be in that position. The people that should be penalised are those who play the system and can't be bothered to fend for themselves, not those that can't, but those that just simply cannot be bothered.

    I have a younger sister who is a typical person who needs stringing up and everything taken away until she actually tries to get a job, except she won't ever get one because she's never had one since leaving school.

    For those type of people, the minimum wage should be changed to be about £2 per hour to entice employers to actually employ those people and give them the satisfaction that it takes ages to actually earn a half decent wage, plus it'll look half decent on their CV too. But it won't happen because the government will class those as the venerable that they want to protect and not the old, ill and the people who have fallen on hard times.

    moose109

    It does sound sometimes on here that there are people who want a mass … It does sound sometimes on here that there are people who want a mass cull on people who have been made redundant, are old or ill. Hate to break it to you, but we all get old, the ill don't want to be ill and those that get made redundant don't want to be in that position. The people that should be penalised are those who play the system and can't be bothered to fend for themselves, not those that can't, but those that just simply cannot be bothered.I have a younger sister who is a typical person who needs stringing up and everything taken away until she actually tries to get a job, except she won't ever get one because she's never had one since leaving school.For those type of people, the minimum wage should be changed to be about £2 per hour to entice employers to actually employ those people and give them the satisfaction that it takes ages to actually earn a half decent wage, plus it'll look half decent on their CV too. But it won't happen because the government will class those as the venerable that they want to protect and not the old, ill and the people who have fallen on hard times.



    Very true and minimum wage is part of the issue. But setting uch a low minimum wage would make the EU parliament cry

    stewby

    Very true and minimum wage is part of the issue. But setting uch a low … Very true and minimum wage is part of the issue. But setting uch a low minimum wage would make the EU parliament cry



    Then the lazy scum can foxtrot oscar outside the EU

    stewby

    Ok, so their NI covers state pension but free tv, free travel and free … Ok, so their NI covers state pension but free tv, free travel and free heating? Problem with all three of these is that all oaps get them even if they have loads of money.



    Pensioners do not get " Free TV " and only a small contribution to their heating costs.

    Let's stick to facts, not fiction.

    When my hubby and I are 75, we will get a free tv licence. If we are still alive. We get a winter fuel allowance of £250. Same as all the other old folk. (I am 59, hubby is 67)
    Dont get any other help though.

    Mod & Ed

    My father who is in his mid 70's was forced to retire by the company he works for at the age of 65, he then went out and found a little part time job which he continued to do until he was 69 when he gave up work to care for my mother who was terminally ill, after she died, he found another little part time job, which he gave up when he was 73, he decided the job he was doing should be made available for a younger person as there was/is a shortage of jobs, he is now an age concern advocate, delivers meals on wheels to the "elderly" and does hospital car service once a week and more if required, for which he receives 40p per mile car allowance. He would've welcomed an older retirement age so that he could've stayed in his well paid fulltime job for longer, he was lucky he contributed towards a private pension, but you have to remember that many of the older generation now didn't have the benefit of well paid jobs and have to rely on a state pension, they had the years of war, rationing, making do, if we as a country can give them free bus travel, a winter fuel allowance and free tv licenses over a certain age, then thats the least we can do, and if it takes another 1p tax to do so, I would cheerfully pay it. I would rather help support the elderly who have given something to this country, then have my taxpayers money contributing towards a student who is studying something at uni that is not going to benefit this country in anyway, how many art historians do we need, how many photographers etc etc.

    moose109

    It does sound sometimes on here that there are people who want a mass … It does sound sometimes on here that there are people who want a mass cull on people who have been made redundant, are old or ill. Hate to break it to you, but we all get old, the ill don't want to be ill and those that get made redundant don't want to be in that position. The people that should be penalised are those who play the system and can't be bothered to fend for themselves, not those that can't, but those that just simply cannot be bothered.I have a younger sister who is a typical person who needs stringing up and everything taken away until she actually tries to get a job, except she won't ever get one because she's never had one since leaving school.For those type of people, the minimum wage should be changed to be about £2 per hour to entice employers to actually employ those people and give them the satisfaction that it takes ages to actually earn a half decent wage, plus it'll look half decent on their CV too. But it won't happen because the government will class those as the venerable that they want to protect and not the old, ill and the people who have fallen on hard times.



    I agree with most of that but by creating jobs at £2 a hour it means employers will hire less people of the minimum wage and just take advantage.

    ryouga

    I agree with most of that but by creating jobs at £2 a hour it means … I agree with most of that but by creating jobs at £2 a hour it means employers will hire less people of the minimum wage and just take advantage.



    Not really because the lazy ones will leave the EU and try their luck in places like China, maybe we could even offer them a free Ryanair stand up ticket there and see if they get £2 p/h there plus the extras that everyone gets like NHS, fire service, bin collections etc. If the lazy ones won't work then they need a kick to get them working and £2 p/h here would mean an 80 hour week just to pay the rent and put a bit of food on the table. It would only take one person to appear in the Sun newspaper saying how hard they have to work now for others to actually take note, instead the Sun print about how easy it is to get benefits that you aren't entitled to and look how people do it, they'll happy have a story about the wasters if it will sell the papers.

    Banned

    moose109

    Not really because the lazy ones will leave the EU and try their luck in … Not really because the lazy ones will leave the EU and try their luck in places like China, maybe we could even offer them a free Ryanair stand up ticket there and see if they get £2 p/h there plus the extras that everyone gets like NHS, fire service, bin collections etc. If the lazy ones won't work then they need a kick to get them working and £2 p/h here would mean an 80 hour week just to pay the rent and put a bit of food on the table. It would only take one person to appear in the Sun newspaper saying how hard they have to work now for others to actually take note, instead the Sun print about how easy it is to get benefits that you aren't entitled to and look how people do it, they'll happy have a story about the wasters if it will sell the papers.



    Are you on drugs?

    guv

    Are you on drugs?



    Quite a few actually, are you?

    Our whole system needs re-evaluating as it clearly has many flaws.

    With regards to the elderly I think they probably couldn't cut their income without causing serious hardship. They are already treated as 2nd class citizens in many respects.
    I would go so far as to say we already have a system where they are disadvantaged when it comes to hospital treatment so there is a secret culling of our old folk going on!
    I speak from experience where my Mother was left for a week with a fractured femur (whilst more urgentcases were taken to theatre! Many excuses were made, but it's all about money finally! She died after the weeks wait, still with a broken leg! This after working all her life 14-65!

    What a load of bullies posting here about taking away the few privileges our pensioners have

    Original Poster

    Three years ago I had to wait nearly three weeks while more urgent cases get prioritised at Royal Free Hampstead but i got my surgery within the month eventually
    As I understand it that is how the NHS works.

    My parents didn't have to wait so long for their treatments, not as serious but that wasn't free on BUPA.

    If you want fast & efficient don't look at the NHS but compared to number 37 on the world health organisation list of countries healthcare (USA) I'd take NHS over private system like that anytime, I would be dead in America.

    I like the above idea of halving TV License/Public transport instead of keeping it free because then you know the subsidy is being far far more effective, than alot of OAPs travelling for free just because they can.

    This might seem like bullying but the Aged in Britain are a ever growing massive strain on everyone.
    The combined age of my parents is 150, they had children late, I expect we're going to have to just swallow the fact that old people living longer is a fact and here to stay and it won't be free to provide welfare for them.

    Original Poster

    moose109

    Then the lazy scum can foxtrot oscar outside the EU



    I would be very interested in seeing how the Condems would deal with todays situation without EU laws restraining them.

    Some things I'd like to be more strict about but at the same time if the UK became more insular, more americanised and more right wing I'd be worried we'd be mimicking a certain party in Germany from 80years ago.

    It wouldn't surprise me if the immigrant laws, human rights laws, giving prisoners the vote etc will do a great job of inciting Britain into starting a campaign to leave the European Union (Not including **** stirrers like the Daily Express/Mail) based on a proper debate than fear mongering immigrant hating rubbish those papers so enjoy.
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