PayPal will not protect against sellers using Royal Mail International Signed For (with Tracking!)

Im in dispute with Paypal regarding a chargeback for a International Order.
According to a email from PayPal, PP will not protect the seller if they use Royal Mail International Signed For (with tracking) as the parcel cannot be tracked once it leaves the UK (see below)

"In regards to the Seller Protection available for this payment, I can
confirm you that since the tracking number cannot give us confirmation of
delivery of the item, PayPal cannot take liability for this payment and
allow you for a seller protection coverage on this transaction given the
situation."

Is this correct?

25 Comments

Banned

only for countries where thet do not track all the way so not strictly true

trouble is that RM make it difficult to spot which countries they dont track to the door

Original Poster

RM quotes that INSF needs to be signed by recipient (not necessarily by the addresssee), but they cannot supply a copy of the signature (quoted from website).

So regardless which country it is ie: USA, Germany, France etc - RM can never supply a signature to prove that the parcel was deliveried

paypal need to understand who they are protecting and who is the customer, they drive me to distraction, I will avoid using paypal where ever possible as they are completly retarded and cannot tell the difference between their **** or their elbow!!! *rant over Ha*

Banned

peter_griffen;8418864

RM quotes that INSF needs to be signed by recipient (not necessarily by … RM quotes that INSF needs to be signed by recipient (not necessarily by the addresssee), but they cannot supply a copy of the signature (quoted from website). So regardless which country it is ie: USA, Germany, France etc - RM can never supply a signature to prove that the parcel was deliveried


paypal dont require a signature :?

they just want proof of delivery which INSF provides for some but not all countries

Banned

whatsThePoint;8418921

So don't sale to people outside of the UK, wheres the problem?


the problem is that people outside the UK still bid and win your items (even if you
restrict to UK bidders only)

but yeah, I would never send anything overseas from ebay

csiman;8418901

paypal dont require a signature :?they just want proof of delivery which … paypal dont require a signature :?they just want proof of delivery which INSF provides for some but not all countries



Are you getting mixed up with Airsure ?

csiman;8418839

only for countries where thet do not track all the way so not strictly … only for countries where thet do not track all the way so not strictly truetrouble is that RM make it difficult to spot which countries they dont track to the door




Anyone know which are the countries that Royal Mail will track to the door with the International Signed for service. I was always under the impression that these were never tracked anywhere once they left the UK. I thought that only Airsure did this, and even then only to certain countries.

LJM;8418965

Anyone know which are the countries that Royal Mail will track to the … Anyone know which are the countries that Royal Mail will track to the door with the International Signed for service. I was always under the impression that these were never tracked anywhere once they left the UK. I thought that only Airsure did this, and even then only to certain countries.



I think he's getting mixed up with Airsure too,there's a list on RM'S site.:thumbsup:

Where can I send mail with Airsure®?
You can send mail by Airsure® to 30 destinations in the following three geographic postal zones

Europe: Andorra, Austria, Azores, Balearic Islands, Belgium, Canary Islands, Corsica, Denmark, Faroe Islands, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Madeira, Monaco, Netherlands, Portugal, Republic of Ireland, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland.

World Zones: Brazil, Canada, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, New Zealand and USA

Please note that if your country isn’t included in the above list, you can’t use our Airsure® service for your destination, although you can still send your item via International Signed For™.

Original Poster

Ok, I have looked around.

AIRSURE - there are limitation - as shown with the comment above

INTERNATIONAL SIGNED FOR - Most countries have extra compensation.

If in doubt, use the online calculator on RM website, and select the country and compo amount

Banned

deb8z;8419041

I think he's getting mixed up with Airsure too,there's a list on RM'S … I think he's getting mixed up with Airsure too,there's a list on RM'S site.:thumbsup:


No I'm not

INSF tracks to destination for most countries but its damn hard to find out which countries :w00t:

royalmail.com/por…IGN

"A signature taken at the destination"

Are all International Signed For™ items electronically tracked when they are delivered? We track all International Signed For™ items until they leave the UK and then the item is handed over to the destination country's postal service as a priority item. However, we can’t track your International Signed For™ item all the way to delivery in every instance or always be able to provide a confirmation of delivery.

csiman;8419515

No I'm notINSF tracks to destination for most countries but its damn hard … No I'm notINSF tracks to destination for most countries but its damn hard to find out which countries :w00t:http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/jump2?catId=400033&mediaId=400035&keyname=INTSIGN"A signature taken at the destination"Are all International Signed For™ items electronically tracked when they are delivered? We track all International Signed For™ items until they leave the UK and then the item is handed over to the destination country's postal service as a priority item. However, we can’t track your International Signed For™ item all the way to delivery in every instance or always be able to provide a confirmation of delivery.



I read all that ^^^ before i posted earlier,must be the way you worded it and the way i read it i thought you meant Airsure:?

I don't trust royal mail, I've used Airsure to send a item to Germany, it only got tracked to the point it got to Germany but no proof that it got delivered.

casparwhite

http://www.track-trace.com/post



Came in very useful

Cheers!

csiman

the problem is that people outside the UK still bid and win your items … the problem is that people outside the UK still bid and win your items (even if you restrict to UK bidders only)



I don't think that's entirely true. You can make it appear on UK eBay only and restrict buyers who attempt to bid from abroad who are viewing the UK pages. There is even a feature that shows failed attempts from bidders who have not necessarily been individually blocked.

Banned

Mr Rossi

I don't think that's entirely true. You can make it appear on UK eBay … I don't think that's entirely true. You can make it appear on UK eBay only and restrict buyers who attempt to bid from abroad who are viewing the UK pages. There is even a feature that shows failed attempts from bidders who have not necessarily been individually blocked.


sold an item a few months back and defo have UK ONLY option selected yet the guy was in Germany

99% of his feedback was from german sellers so I doubt he's UK registered
Edited by: "csiman" 19th Oct 2010

Still don't think you're right on this one regarding excluding other countries that you don't want to post to.
Not sure if you have fully completed this, csiman.
Check your Buyer Requirements page. (Buyers in locations to which I don't ship).

Like I said, there is also the Buyer Requirements Activity Log which will show failed attempts from bidders, not just bidders from abroad.

My Activity Log shows that I have blocked:

Buyers in countries to which I don't deliver,
Too many Unpaid Item strikes,
Buyers without a PayPal account,
Buyers who have a low feedback score and do not meet the criteria specified.

These reasons are from the last 60 days from actual bidders from all over the world, one bidder had 0% feedback made 3 attempts to bid, and I have other criteria listed not just these 4 reasons.

Go to Account - Site Preferences - Postage and packaging preferences - Exclude postage locations from your listings - Edit

csiman,
On my exclusion page I have blocked the whole of Europe, except Ireland (and everywhere else not domestic).

Banned

Mr Rossi

csiman, On my exclusion page I have blocked the whole of Europe, except … csiman, On my exclusion page I have blocked the whole of Europe, except Ireland (and everywhere else not domestic).


so had I, still didnt stop a german bidder though

csiman

so had I, still didnt stop a german bidder though



That's impossible

Banned

deb8z

That's impossible


its a computer programme - nothing is impossible - just look at the new improved hukd system lol

was about 6 months ago so maybe their system wasnt working properly but I can assure you he was a german ebayer who won my auction and I had UK only in my profile.
Edited by: "csiman" 19th Oct 2010

In 2005 i sold a phone to someone in canada

Sent it International Signed for

The buyer claimed he didnt receive it
even though he promptly sold it on ebay.com
he got it from me on ebay.co.uk

When he filed a dispute
I provided paypal with details of the aucton that he sold the item
I then spoke to royal mail who sent me a letter confirming it had been delivered
and provided proof of who signed for it and when
which i promptly faxed off to paypal

Guess what he still won the dispute and they returned his money
I appealed and won
guess what his account was empty

Seeing the way the wind was blowing i removed my direct debit from my account
so my balance went negative instead of paypal scamming me

They have been chasing me ever since
i have told them numerous times if they want any money from me
to take me to court as they wont get a penny from me

They may well have given up now though only time will tell

in 2007 the debt collectors returned it to paypal
and then in 2009 another debt collector sent me letters
after lots of shouting with them and paypal
it was returned to paypal yet again

csiman

was about 6 months ago so maybe their system wasnt working properly but I … was about 6 months ago so maybe their system wasnt working properly but I can assure you he was a german ebayer who won my auction and I had UK only in my profile.



Must have been your computer(!) then as the system was working fine for me back then...X)

Pity you didn't contact eBay because I definitely would have, no maybe about it! 020 8605 3000 if any one wants an alternative number to the 0845 rip-off.

Royal Mail ISF does obtain a signature from the recipient regardless of country. You may not be able to see it online for everywhere, but it is obtained. PayPal should know this, but you have obviously had an inexperienced member of their team dealing with your claim (fairly typical from PayPal these days). If it hasn't been delivered though then you do have to refund it and PayPal won't protect you. Parcels are tracked by the different postal services that handle the parcel in the country it is for. Their service will depend on the country, but there are online services you can access for nearly every big county and look at what has been recorded. RM don't tell you any of this because their call centre (or Post Offices) simply don't know. You can get a mixture of results, such as simply delivery confirmation, or also the times it went through the different delivery offices/customs etc. It is quite possible in this particular case the parcel has been lost. Not the end of the world really. From time to time I'm sure the postal services don't bother to get a signature (or actually deliver the parcel), but they are obliged to and almost always do, especially in EU countries and USA, Canada. At the moment Spain, Italy etc are in turmoil so don't be surprised if unrecorded services such as airmail don't make it. It costs the postal companies next to nothing to record the parcel, yet Royal Mail haven't realised that, or that lost item claims will offset their gains that they make by overcharging for the recorded services. So it will cost them eventually, until they sort their act out and that of their overseas partners. As you know (correct for 2011/12), Royal Mail ISF insures up to £46 + cost of delivery paid, so the chargeback will be offset slightly by this. Remember that Royal Mail is the legacy of a state owned business, is falling apart through bad management and silly (and unjust) unions, and doesn't know how to look after itself these days.
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