Pensioner held on suspicion of murder after 'burglar' stabbed

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Top comments
adeljay922 h, 37 m ago

But what is "reasonable force" i think sticking a screwdriver ( thats what …But what is "reasonable force" i think sticking a screwdriver ( thats what was used in the burgulary) in a burgulars chest wont be seen as reasonable?


Of course its reasonable

1. There were two burglars

2. It was the burglars screwdriver

3. He's a 78 year old pensioner, what else was he meant to do with a screwdriver?

4. Burglars are the lowest scum of the earth.

5. Karma
Edited by: "chocci" 4th Apr
Segata-Sanshiro8 m ago

Its only self defense if his life was imminently in danger from the looks …Its only self defense if his life was imminently in danger from the looks of it, that doesn't appear to be the case.


So a 78 year chap has a screwdriver held to his throat in his own home and it doesn't appear to be a case that his life was in danger?

Well done.
Poor man!
Like having his house broken into isn't traumatizing enough, he gets that laid on him!
The law is crazy!
Segata-Sanshiro8 m ago

It states he was arrested on one charge then rearrest on the other, which …It states he was arrested on one charge then rearrest on the other, which would seem to be based on investigation of the crime scene\ looking at the injuries. It also states it was initially reported that he was held (doesn't state physically held) in the kitchen, it doesn't state that actually happened and that explaination could have come from the pensioner himself.Could be like that pensioner a few years ago who claimed his life was under threat yet was shown to have shot the burglar in the back when he was running away and thus was not a threat to him.Furthermore its tiresome to see the same people baying for the blood of every criminal everytime a thread about a crime is created, thank god none of you actually have any authority otherwise we'd have people shoved in the braisen bull for getting a parking ticket.


And it's tiresome to see the same people defending the bad guys all the time.
106 Comments
I read this and it said he might be getting done for gbh. I just dont understand the law. He was defending himself
adeljay924 m ago

I read this and it said he might be getting done for gbh. I just dont …I read this and it said he might be getting done for gbh. I just dont understand the law. He was defending himself


If he can prove he used "Reasonable force" to defend himself he will be able to defend himself quite well and hopefully get off, if it is as clear cut as 2 people robbing his house and he was at risk
winifer24 m ago

If he can prove he used "Reasonable force" to defend himself he will be …If he can prove he used "Reasonable force" to defend himself he will be able to defend himself quite well and hopefully get off, if it is as clear cut as 2 people robbing his house and he was at risk


But what is "reasonable force" i think sticking a screwdriver ( thats what was used in the burgulary) in a burgulars chest wont be seen as reasonable?
I hate burglars
Its only self defense if his life was imminently in danger from the looks of it, that doesn't appear to be the case.
Besides isnt this political as it is addressing the laws on your right to defend yourself, or at least baying for a discussion upon such laws
Segata-Sanshiro8 m ago

Its only self defense if his life was imminently in danger from the looks …Its only self defense if his life was imminently in danger from the looks of it, that doesn't appear to be the case.


So a 78 year chap has a screwdriver held to his throat in his own home and it doesn't appear to be a case that his life was in danger?

Well done.
adeljay922 h, 37 m ago

But what is "reasonable force" i think sticking a screwdriver ( thats what …But what is "reasonable force" i think sticking a screwdriver ( thats what was used in the burgulary) in a burgulars chest wont be seen as reasonable?


Of course its reasonable

1. There were two burglars

2. It was the burglars screwdriver

3. He's a 78 year old pensioner, what else was he meant to do with a screwdriver?

4. Burglars are the lowest scum of the earth.

5. Karma
Edited by: "chocci" 4th Apr
adeljay9232 m ago

But what is "reasonable force" i think sticking a screwdriver ( thats what …But what is "reasonable force" i think sticking a screwdriver ( thats what was used in the burgulary) in a burgulars chest wont be seen as reasonable?


It would if you were fearful for your life.
deeky1 m ago

It would if you were fearful for your life.


Some people ought to be put in the situation before being allowed to comment.
Segata-Sanshiro22 m ago

Its only self defense if his life was imminently in danger from the looks …Its only self defense if his life was imminently in danger from the looks of it, that doesn't appear to be the case.


Where does it suggest he didn't believe his life was in danger?
Poor man!
Like having his house broken into isn't traumatizing enough, he gets that laid on him!
The law is crazy!
chocci15 m ago

Of course its reasonable1. There were two burglars 2. It was the burglars …Of course its reasonable1. There were two burglars 2. It was the burglars screwdriver3. He's a 76 year old pensioner, what else was he meant to do with a screwdriver?4. Burglars are the lowest scum of the earth.5. Karma


The only problem is, if and when he (hopefully) gets acquitted or released without charge, the poor bloke will forever have to be watching his back.
He must have been scared out of his wits and will probably never recover from this, no one should have to go through torment at any age never mind a pensioner
If someone burgles your home they deserve all they get. The fact hes been arrested is a joke. Were not allowed to defend ourselves against anyone in this country
deeky13 m ago

Where does it suggest he didn't believe his life was in danger?


In the bit where it states how the police are handling it and the potential charges
123batman3218 m ago

If someone burgles your home they deserve all they get. The fact hes been …If someone burgles your home they deserve all they get. The fact hes been arrested is a joke. Were not allowed to defend ourselves against anyone in this country


He only been arrested on suspicion of murder which I believe is standard procedure. I have little doubt he'll be released without charge soon, and rightly so.
chocci9 m ago

He only been arrested on suspicion of murder which I believe is standard …He only been arrested on suspicion of murder which I believe is standard procedure. I have little doubt he'll be released without charge soon, and rightly so.


It states he was arrested on one charge then rearrest on the other, which would seem to be based on investigation of the crime scene\ looking at the injuries. It also states it was initially reported that he was held (doesn't state physically held) in the kitchen, it doesn't state that actually happened and that explaination could have come from the pensioner himself.

Could be like that pensioner a few years ago who claimed his life was under threat yet was shown to have shot the burglar in the back when he was running away and thus was not a threat to him.

Furthermore its tiresome to see the same people baying for the blood of every criminal everytime a thread about a crime is created, thank god none of you actually have any authority otherwise we'd have people shoved in the braisen bull for getting a parking ticket.
Edited by: "Segata-Sanshiro" 4th Apr
Segata-Sanshiro50 m ago

In the bit where it states how the police are handling it and the …In the bit where it states how the police are handling it and the potential charges


Well we don't know the facts yet do we. He wouldn't be the first one to be arrested on suspicion of murder then released. He was originally arrested on suspicion of GBH when the burglar was still alive, it has to change to suspicion of murder when he snuffed it. Hopefully he'll get off with it. The law should say that you break into someone else's home, uninvited and armed with weapons, at your own risk.
Edited by: "deeky" 4th Apr
Segata-Sanshiro8 m ago

It states he was arrested on one charge then rearrest on the other, which …It states he was arrested on one charge then rearrest on the other, which would seem to be based on investigation of the crime scene\ looking at the injuries. It also states it was initially reported that he was held (doesn't state physically held) in the kitchen, it doesn't state that actually happened and that explaination could have come from the pensioner himself.Could be like that pensioner a few years ago who claimed his life was under threat yet was shown to have shot the burglar in the back when he was running away and thus was not a threat to him.Furthermore its tiresome to see the same people baying for the blood of every criminal everytime a thread about a crime is created, thank god none of you actually have any authority otherwise we'd have people shoved in the braisen bull for getting a parking ticket.


And it's tiresome to see the same people defending the bad guys all the time.
deeky7 m ago

And it's tiresome to see the same people defending the bad guys all the …And it's tiresome to see the same people defending the bad guys all the time.


I'm disappointed in you that your seeing life thru such a childish view as to even believe theres such a thing as bad guys and good guys, thats far too simplistic a view of anything in this world.
Edited by: "Segata-Sanshiro" 4th Apr
Segata-Sanshiro16 m ago

It states he was arrested on one charge then rearrest on the other, which …It states he was arrested on one charge then rearrest on the other, which would seem to be based on investigation of the crime scene\ looking at the injuries. It also states it was initially reported that he was held (doesn't state physically held) in the kitchen, it doesn't state that actually happened and that explaination could have come from the pensioner himself.Could be like that pensioner a few years ago who claimed his life was under threat yet was shown to have shot the burglar in the back when he was running away and thus was not a threat to him.Furthermore its tiresome to see the same people baying for the blood of every criminal everytime a thread about a crime is created, thank god none of you actually have any authority otherwise we'd have people shoved in the braisen bull for getting a parking ticket.


What a load of crap the guy was burgling an old mans house and your comparing it to a parking ticket. The only sad part about this case is the old guy didnt get the second guy too
Segata-Sanshiro6 m ago

I'm disappointed in you that your seeing life thru such a childish view as …I'm disappointed in you that your seeing life thru such a childish view as to even believe theres such a thing as bad guys and good guys, thats far too simplistic a view of anything in this world.


What? And you haven't simplified my comment down to 'good guys and bad guys' have you?
Two burglars illegally enter a property, in my opinion they relinquish any rights and the resident should be allowed to defend themselves as they see fit.

Sadly the pensioner will face charges or harassment for the rest of his life.



He deserves all the help support he can get from the law abiding majority.
Treboeth10 m ago

Two burglars illegally enter a property, in my opinion they relinquish any …Two burglars illegally enter a property, in my opinion they relinquish any rights and the resident should be allowed to defend themselves as they see fit.Sadly the pensioner will face charges or harassment for the rest of his life.He deserves all the help support he can get from the law abiding majority.


i hope the police come to there sensers and release him without charge
davewave14 m ago

can you explain how that means anything about his guilt.


No I'm not a judge thus I am not here cheering on a murder, but he's been arrested and all the evidence and things will decide his guilt or not based on our laws about self defense which are based on practicality not emotion and anger.
SJHan1 h, 23 m ago

So a 78 year chap has a screwdriver held to his throat in his own home …So a 78 year chap has a screwdriver held to his throat in his own home and it doesn't appear to be a case that his life was in danger?Well done.


That will be up to the justice system to decide not people here.
Segata-Sanshiro6 m ago

No I'm not a judge thus I am not here cheering on a murder, but he's been …No I'm not a judge thus I am not here cheering on a murder, but he's been arrested and all the evidence and things will decide his guilt or not based on our laws about self defense which are based on practicality not emotion and anger.


oh right, glad you're not keen on murderers.
Wongy1105 m ago

That will be up to the justice system to decide not people here.


I don't think anyone here thinks they can decide the man's fate.
missismop13 m ago

i hope the police come to there sensers and release him without charge


That is not their job
not sure how is was in deekys day
but now is is to get as many convictions as they possibly can.
It is right to investigate the incident but if he felt his life was in danger he was right to act.
cmdr_elito8 m ago

It is right to investigate the incident but if he felt his life was in …It is right to investigate the incident but if he felt his life was in danger he was right to act.


And who are you or I to say he did, someone in the street could give you a dirty look and you could bash their head in claiming you felt your life was in danger.

Thats why Americans keep shooting each other.

Its up to the police and a judge to decide if someone's life was or wasn't in danger, feelings and reality are not always the same thing.
Edited by: "Segata-Sanshiro" 4th Apr
mod
The general rule of thumb is:

You can use reasonable force to protect your life and property, but the emphasis is on reasonable.

If a burglar is coming towards you and the closest thing to hand is a screwdriver/baseball bat/whatever - you can beat them to incapacity and not face any repercussions.

However, the law sees it as unreasonable if you carry on beating them after they're incapacitated.
Or you chase after them and beat them, when they're running away.
Or you run to the kitchen to grab a knife and then defend yourself (as it shows intent to harm).

In brief, you can absolutely defend your property and safety in this situation, as long as you don't do anything that a court may find that excessive force was used.

Source: personal experience
Segata-Sanshiro1 h, 44 m ago

It states he was arrested on one charge then rearrest on the other, which …It states he was arrested on one charge then rearrest on the other, which would seem to be based on investigation of the crime scene\ looking at the injuries. It also states it was initially reported that he was held (doesn't state physically held) in the kitchen, it doesn't state that actually happened and that explaination could have come from the pensioner himself.Could be like that pensioner a few years ago who claimed his life was under threat yet was shown to have shot the burglar in the back when he was running away and thus was not a threat to him.Furthermore its tiresome to see the same people baying for the blood of every criminal everytime a thread about a crime is created, thank god none of you actually have any authority otherwise we'd have people shoved in the braisen bull for getting a parking ticket.


No it doesn't.

He was arrested on GBH and then the burglar died so they HAD to rearrest him for murder.
Segata-Sanshiro43 m ago

And who are you or I to say he did, someone in the street could give you a …And who are you or I to say he did, someone in the street could give you a dirty look and you could bash their head in claiming you felt your life was in danger. Thats why Americans keep shooting each other.Its up to the police and a judge to decide if someone's life was or wasn't in danger, feelings and reality are not always the same thing.


Clearly you haven’t had your house broken into by someone with a knife. I have and although my life was in danger as he threatened to kill me and was holding a knife I took him on had a struggle with him, destroying various bits of furniture in the struggle and I disarmed him and threw him out of my property and barricaded the door. I’m lucky I was young and able physically to do this, a 78 year old wouldn’t have stood a chance in my situation.

I think in the case of home invasions people should be enabled to defend themselves as well as they see fit. The pensioner would not have stabbed them if they hadn’t of broken into the house. The criminals had no right to be in the house and the pensioner has a right to be safe in their home. I don’t condone killing but it may make a few of these scumbags think again about breaking into people’s houses.
Edited by: "cmdr_elito" 4th Apr
Segata-Sanshiro2 h, 28 m ago

In the bit where it states how the police are handling it and the …In the bit where it states how the police are handling it and the potential charges


The guy is 78 (seventy-eight) years old.... how is any of this not a threat to life? Put yourself in his shoes but your slower/weaker/frail.... I'd have done the same thing if my life felt it was in danger...
Of course he was arrested thats how it works. Now its down to interviews an investigation then cps. My guess charges dropped. Lets wait and see.
The police are fast becoming a joke in this country. They tell us they dont have the resources to respond to burglaries .

999 emergency calls dont get a response sometimes for a couple of days.

Very few crimes are solved

Theyve lost control of the streets in London as the murder rate soars to new highs.

And yet they can charge an old guy for murder when hes defending himself in his own house.?

Im all for supporting your local Bobby on the beat but they are now a pitifull joke.
Snakeyes6468 m ago

The guy is 78 (seventy-eight) years old.... how is any of this not a …The guy is 78 (seventy-eight) years old.... how is any of this not a threat to life? Put yourself in his shoes but your slower/weaker/frail.... I'd have done the same thing if my life felt it was in danger...


Exactly mate.

These people were not electricians attending a house.
The wording is clear to all but the exceptional few.

1245am
Burglars
Armed with a screwdriver
Forced into the kitchen

Some people just want to defend real criminals though for whatever reason.
For one. He is 78, so good on him for defending himself at that age,, the two idiots probably thought old man. We can rob his house no problem without problems. They got what they deserved and the old man deserves a bloody medal.
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