Piracy - only for the poor?

Banned
So is piracy the exclusive domain of the have-nots? Do you only do it because you can't afford to legitimately purchase them or are you perhaps rolling in it yet still feel like sticking it to the man?

109 Comments

Banned

I do not like to steal anything

Banned

no i dont think ot is just the poor, i know a fair few people who have dvds out before their release and download stuff, and they are all in well paid jobs

Banned

http://www.fatlittlefinger.com/Piratemedia/Captain-Roger.jpg

I like my pirate

I am not a thief

Why pay for something you can get for free, I know it's not big and I know it's not clever but that's how I feel.

In an ideal world yes I'd love to pay full price for everything.

Banned

If I can't afford the real thing, I don't have it.

Banned

do you reckon if we didnt pay so much tax more people would pay for things like dvds?

I download first party Microsoft games to get my own back for them providing me with such shoddy hardware I'm on my 3rd xbox. I believe that at this point in time they still owe me money.

I also downloaded 44 inch chest, the bill for the two hours of my life that'll I'll never see again are in the post.

EDIT : I have never claimed benefits.

Banned

bykergrove;7729012

do you reckon if we didnt pay so much tax more people would pay for … do you reckon if we didnt pay so much tax more people would pay for things like dvds?



I don't watch many films.

So it would not include me.

dcx_badass;7728983

I disagree. It's more a matter of if you don't have to pay why would you, … I disagree. It's more a matter of if you don't have to pay why would you, and it's victimless.



piracy is victimless? When i have spoken to people in bands it is a concern for tham as they just want to make a living and if people don't pay for their music etc how are they going to pay the rent, food etc etc. .

dananana;7729042

piracy is victimless? When i have spoken to people in bands it is a … piracy is victimless? When i have spoken to people in bands it is a concern for tham as they just want to make a living and if people don't pay for their music etc how are they going to pay the rent, food etc etc. .



Bands don't tend to make much from music sales as such, it's usually the merchandising (depending on who negotiated their deal).

Just to bring in a quote from the other thread (I've copied my proposed answer into this one).

Alfonse;7728853

errrr if they could afford it they wouldn't do it :roll:

Alfonse

so how much do you steal, of which you can afford?

Alfonse

I knew you couldn't answer it.No debate, just your honest answer to what … I knew you couldn't answer it.No debate, just your honest answer to what YOU steal which otherwise you could normally afford but choose not to pay for?invariably I win without YOUR direct answerawaits epic fail

Whilst I don't want to knock you off your (increasingly high and confident) pedestal here, the premise here, namely that people only steal things that they cannot afford, is clearly flawed. In relation to online piracy people regularly download things, be it movies, music or games, that they can afford. The motivational push into doing the downloading in such cases comes from the assumption that they cannot be caught, which is very different. People justify such actions in a variety of ways (e.g. victimless crime, companies have too much money), all of which are flawed, but ultimately the point is that the majority of them would not partake in such activities if they thought they would be caught and prosecuted. I would suggest that whether or not they can afford what they are downloading is rarely a conscious factor.

I saw 90 films at the cinema last year, so I think Hollywood have had their pound of flesh out of me.

In terms of music/MP3's etc, I may download a few MP3's to sample stuff and if I like it, then the probability is that at some point I'll go to a gig or buy future albums.

lol point is, if you could all afford it no problem then you wouldn't worry about the cost in the first place.........all about disposable income

Banned

I bet people who sell dodgy gear also claim benefits pretending they are unemployed :roll:

why do people always assume its about saving money? I buy loads of blu rays for instance,but I fail to see why I should wait a year or maybe more for a uk channel to pick up a good american tv show so I will download it. I dont actually consider that theft-I pay my tv licence,I pay my satellite subs so therefore I have already funded my contribution to the purchase of the next series of dexter so why shouldnt I watch it now rather than wait months or more?

Likewise mad men-finished the new season in november and bbc are just about to start it. who have I stolen from?I put em on a usb stick,watch them and delete them. I dont sell discs to anyone-the tv industry gets the same amount of money from me as they would either way.

Alfonse;7729073

lol point is, if you could all afford it no problem then you wouldn't … lol point is, if you could all afford it no problem then you wouldn't worry about the cost in the first place.........all about disposable income

I disagree. The notion that people who have money don't care about outgoings, whether disposable income or not, is simply inaccurate.

Crazy Jamie;7729061

Just to bring in a quote from the other thread (I've copied my proposed … Just to bring in a quote from the other thread (I've copied my proposed answer into this one).Whilst I don't want to knock you off your (increasingly high and confident) pedestal here, the premise here, namely that people only steal things that they cannot afford, is clearly flawed. In relation to online piracy people regularly download things, be it movies, music or games, that they can afford. The motivational push into doing the downloading in such cases comes from the assumption that they cannot be caught, which is very different. People justify such actions in a variety of ways (e.g. victimless crime, companies have too much money), all of which are flawed, but ultimately the point is that the majority of them would not partake in such activities if they thought they would be caught and prosecuted. I would suggest that whether or not they can afford what they are downloading is rarely a conscious factor.



you couldn't knock me off a pedestal I would have to standing on one in the first place, I'm grounded :roll:

Fine so why not so use the paid for avenues which are also on line, I think your flawed statement is because of cost..................compared to free :roll:

barky;7729094

why do people always assume its about saving money? I buy loads of blu … why do people always assume its about saving money? I buy loads of blu rays for instance,but I fail to see why I should wait a year or maybe more for a uk channel to pick up a good american tv show so I will download it. I dont actually consider that theft-I pay my tv licence,I pay my satellite subs so therefore I have already funded my contribution to the purchase of the next series of dexter so why shouldnt I watch it now rather than wait months or more?Likewise mad men-finished the new season in november and bbc are just about to start it. who have I stolen from?I put em on a usb stick,watch them and delete them. I dont sell discs to anyone-the tv industry gets the same amount of money from me as they would either way.



iTunes, have them at cost :whistling:

Flodd;7729059

Bands don't tend to make much from music sales as such, it's usually the … Bands don't tend to make much from music sales as such, it's usually the merchandising (depending on who negotiated their deal).



So just because they have other income steams it is okay to download their music. Also record labels will be losing potential income thus they may take chances when signing up and coming bands.

barky;7729094

why do people always assume its about saving money? I buy loads of blu … why do people always assume its about saving money? I buy loads of blu rays for instance,but I fail to see why I should wait a year or maybe more for a uk channel to pick up a good american tv show so I will download it. I dont actually consider that theft-I pay my tv licence,I pay my satellite subs so therefore I have already funded my contribution to the purchase of the next series of dexter so why shouldnt I watch it now rather than wait months or more?Likewise mad men-finished the new season in november and bbc are just about to start it. who have I stolen from?I put em on a usb stick,watch them and delete them. I dont sell discs to anyone-the tv industry gets the same amount of money from me as they would either way.



+107126323213

Everything I download will probably be on the bbc or Sky at some point, so I've already paid for it :-D

Alfonse;7729135

iTunes, have them at cost :whistling:



really? season 4 of dexter? season 3 of mad men? all 13 episodes of glee? I dont see them on itunes.

dcx_badass;7729091

Well it depends on the person, people I know pirate stuff they wouldn't … Well it depends on the person, people I know pirate stuff they wouldn't pay for, and if they want something they pay for it. If they couldn't pirate it and still wouldn't buy it, then when they pirate it then it is victimless.



just because they will not pay for it doesn't mean that they are entitled it for free though.

dananana;7729141

So just because they have other income steams it is okay to download … So just because they have other income steams it is okay to download their music. Also record labels will be losing potential income thus they may take chances when signing up and coming bands.



I never entered into the realms of whether it was right or wrong I was just giving you some information on the likely stream of income for a band...

barky;7729156

really? season 4 of dexter? season 3 of mad men? all 13 episodes of glee? … really? season 4 of dexter? season 3 of mad men? all 13 episodes of glee? I dont see them on itunes.



I bet you don't admit to your mates that you watch Glee...! :thumbsup:

Alfonse;7729110

Fine so why so use the paid for avenues which are also on line

People don't fall into the categories of 'pirate everything' or 'buy everything', which again comes down to perception of what it is they are doing, not only in terms of whether they will get caught, but how they morally justify it to themselves. As flawed as the latter justifications are, what a person does is governed by their own perception, and it is likely that they place limits on that to justify their own spin on morality.

Alfonse

I think your flawed statement is because of … I think your flawed statement is because of cost..................compared to free :roll:

I have no idea what you're getting at here. Retail items cost money and pirated items are free. So what? That in itself proves nothing.

In what way does the preowned game & cd market differ from piracy?

Original Poster Banned

Ok here's my input on this, mainly in response to Alfonse's assertion that only people who can't afford the legitimate route will resort to piracy.

I have personally done repair and maintenance of computers (Macs to be precise) of two pretty big players in the UK music scene, one plays in one of the biggest bands in the world, the other a manager of some pretty big artists. Needless to say both are multi-millionaires and both make their living from an industry constantly under threat from piracy - supposedly.

So on working on their machines, I found massive itunes libraries - tens of thousands of albums. I joked with them that they must have spent ages building their collection from iTunes music store or ripping their own CDs. Their response was to laugh and say they just copy other peoples music collections on their iPods. In other words they haven't paid for any of it. They even said I could get what I wanted off their too. I was quite taken aback by it and said I thought there would be some solidarity between those in the music industry, they laughed again and said everyone is at it.

I took what they said with a pinch of salt until i spoke with another consultant who has done a lot of work for those in the music industry and he confirmed that most of the artists he'd done work for engaged in music sharing, he even installed Macs complete with a full library of music preinstalled for some of the biggest names in international music.

So not only does this fact fly in the face of the idea only poor people are pirates but it also shows the music industry is full of hypocrites and they don't care. Someone mentioned that they knew people in small bands who complained about piracy, I bet their iPods contained music they hadn't paid for too...

Banned

Even if i could afford it and had the wage of some of the highest paid footballers -

Id still be a pirate!! Arrrgh me heartys!

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I have rapidshare and megaupload accounts for a pretty penny or two

Crazy Jamie;7729184

I have no idea what you're getting at here. Retail items cost money and … I have no idea what you're getting at here. Retail items cost money and pirated items are free.So what? .



well the free items will go quicker than priced items.........................:roll:

master_chief;7729227

Ok here's my input on this, mainly in response to Alfonse's assertion … Ok here's my input on this, mainly in response to Alfonse's assertion that only people who can't afford the legitimate route will resort to piracy.I have personally done repair and maintenance of computers (Macs to be precise) of two pretty big players in the UK music scene, one plays in one of the biggest bands in the world, the other a manager of some pretty big artists. Needless to say both are multi-millionaires and both make their living from an industry constantly under threat from piracy - supposedly.So on working on their machines, I found massive itunes libraries - tens of thousands of albums. I joked with them that they must have spent ages building their collection from iTunes music store or ripping their own CDs. Their response was to laugh and say they just copy other peoples music collections on their iPods. In other words they haven't paid for any of it. They even said I could get what I wanted off their too. I was quite taken aback by it and said I thought there would be some solidarity between those in the music industry, they laughed again and said everyone is at it.I took what they said with a pinch of salt until i spoke with another consultant who has done a lot of work for those in the music industry and he confirmed that most of the artists he'd done work for engaged in music sharing, he even installed Macs complete with a full library of music preinstalled for some of the biggest names in international music.So not only does this fact fly in the face of the idea only poor people are pirates but it also shows the music industry is full of hypocrites and they don't care. Someone mentioned that they knew people in small bands who complained about piracy, I bet their iPods contained music they hadn't paid for too...



BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA, 2 people you met once makes the music industry full of pirates, well done.

You bet, well that ain't fact and once again you haven;t said whether you pirate or not..........:roll:

Banned

dcx_badass;7729190

But what does the other person loose? If I photocopy a picture nobody has … But what does the other person loose? If I photocopy a picture nobody has lost anything. It's exactly the same.



Like molesting Alzheimer's sufferers?

Banned

Alfonse;7729307

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA, 2 people you met once makes the music industry full of … BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA, 2 people you met once makes the music industry full of pirates, well done.You bet, well that ain't fact and once again you haven;t said whether you pirate or not..........:roll:



i aint taking sides (surprisingly) but you need to read and re-read and understand what he wrote -

supposedly -

he met 2 big players who he did some work for and they had masses of music which they said they took from other ipods

he knows a consultant who has done work for many in the music industry who has confirmed most of them music share

so from what he wrote, we can gather that not just two, but alot of people in the music industry (including two multi millionnaires) share ipod music

dcx_badass;7729190

But what does the other person loose? If I photocopy a picture nobody has … But what does the other person loose? If I photocopy a picture nobody has lost anything. It's exactly the same.



That it is copyright infringement. Also your friends may say that they would not pay for it but this is not true of all people thus decreases sales.

kapows;7729348

i aint taking sides (surprisingly) but you need to read and re-read and … i aint taking sides (surprisingly) but you need to read and re-read and understand what he wrote - supposedly - he met 2 big players who he did some work for and they had masses of music which they said they took from other ipodshe knows a consultant who has done work for many in the music industry who has confirmed most of them music shareso from what he wrote, we can gather that not just two, but alot of people in the music industry (including two multi millionnaires) share ipod music



its still 2 people, say what you want mate

Banned

master_chief;7729227

Ok here's my input on this, mainly in response to Alfonse's assertion … Ok here's my input on this, mainly in response to Alfonse's assertion that only people who can't afford the legitimate route will resort to piracy.I have personally done repair and maintenance of computers (Macs to be precise) of two pretty big players in the UK music scene, one plays in one of the biggest bands in the world, the other a manager of some pretty big artists. Needless to say both are multi-millionaires and both make their living from an industry constantly under threat from piracy - supposedly.So on working on their machines, I found massive itunes libraries - tens of thousands of albums. I joked with them that they must have spent ages building their collection from iTunes music store or ripping their own CDs. Their response was to laugh and say they just copy other peoples music collections on their iPods. In other words they haven't paid for any of it. They even said I could get what I wanted off their too. I was quite taken aback by it and said I thought there would be some solidarity between those in the music industry, they laughed again and said everyone is at it.I took what they said with a pinch of salt until i spoke with another consultant who has done a lot of work for those in the music industry and he confirmed that most of the artists he'd done work for engaged in music sharing, he even installed Macs complete with a full library of music preinstalled for some of the biggest names in international music.So not only does this fact fly in the face of the idea only poor people are pirates but it also shows the music industry is full of hypocrites and they don't care. Someone mentioned that they knew people in small bands who complained about piracy, I bet their iPods contained music they hadn't paid for too...



What a lovely tale.

My feeling is that if I enjoy something that someone has made, I should pay them for it.

Of course that explanation isn't as long and star-filled as your's, but it makes sense to me.:thumbsup:

Original Poster Banned

Alfonse;7729307

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA, 2 people you met once makes the music industry full of … BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA, 2 people you met once makes the music industry full of pirates, well done.You bet, well that ain't fact and once again you haven;t said whether you pirate or not..........:roll:



Well you said only poor people pirate, I gave you two examples of multi-millionaires who work in the music industry who do it that I know of from first hand experience. I also gave examples from another IT professional with experience of extremely rich people who do it. I know fairly well off business owners who also do it. So I have many examples of rich people who pirate, completely dismantling your theory that only poor people do it who can't afford the legitimate route.

Do I pirate? Yes is the answer and I'm not poor either though I'm by no means a rich man.

Banned

master_chief;7729369

Well you said only poor people pirate, I gave you two examples of … Well you said only poor people pirate, I gave you two examples of multi-millionaires who work in the music industry who do it that I know of from first hand experience. I also gave examples from another IT professional with experience of extremely rich people who do it. I know fairly well off business owners who also do it. So I have many examples of rich people who pirate, completely dismantling your theory that only poor people do it who can't afford the legitimate route.Do I pirate? Yes is the answer and I'm not poor either though I'm by no means a rich man.



But I know all the other millionaires in the world (I repair glasses) and they all pay for their music, so your exceptions actually prove the rule.:thumbsup:

dcx_badass;7729190

But what does the other person loose? If I photocopy a picture nobody has … But what does the other person loose? If I photocopy a picture nobody has lost anything. It's exactly the same.



this is easy, say you have photos on face-book and some are used on an advertising campaign without your permission and make a few quid, you would sue, no doubt.....but they only pirated your photos :thumbsup:

Alfonse;7729272

well the free items will go quicker than priced … well the free items will go quicker than priced items.........................:roll:

What does that have to do with piracy? You're going to have to spell this out for me, because I genuinely can't see your point.

Alfonse

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA, 2 people you met once makes the music industry full of … BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA, 2 people you met once makes the music industry full of pirates, well done.

In the previous thread you seemed to place a lot of weight on his personal experience, yet now you say that examples of two people (double what you were requesting before) hold are not relevant? I spy a contradiction.
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