Plumbing Advice

43
Posted 27th Feb
Hey all,

So I need some help if possible in regards to sorting out my loo (and bathroom sink as they have the same fittings to the water supply).

As you can see in the picture below I have the copper pipe connected to an Isolating valve, would I be able to remove the copper pipe between the valve and the connection to the flush valve? If so am I able to then replace it with a flexi pipe as I tried connecting a new flush valve to the existing connection however it was short and I couldn't get a grip on the thread...?

Would I be able to remove the top bolt of the Isolating vale and connect a Female to Female Flexi pipe (picture 2)?

Any help is appreciated.
3414149-gMXST.jpg3414149-eU83B.jpg
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Think you’re to struggle because of the small height available between toilet and isolation valve, but I think you’re on the right lines though.
I would replace feed pipe including your isolation valve, with a flexi that has an isolation valve built in.
You’d need to turn off water (obvs), then cut below your isolation valve at the right level. Use a 15mm twisty pipe cutter they are great. Then fit to 15mm copper and then to toilet. You’ll need ptfe tape on the plastic toilet connection remember. HTH
Andyjb2327/02/2020 18:45

Think you’re to struggle because of the small height available between t …Think you’re to struggle because of the small height available between toilet and isolation valve, but I think you’re on the right lines though. I would replace feed pipe including your isolation valve, with a flexi that has an isolation valve built in. You’d need to turn off water (obvs), then cut below your isolation valve at the right level. Use a 15mm twisty pipe cutter they are great. Then fit to 15mm copper and then to toilet. You’ll need ptfe tape on the plastic toilet connection remember. HTH


I was going to move the Flush valve to the opposite side of the basin so I will have more room to play around with. Not sure how to turn the main water supply off from my flat so would rather just use the isolating valve if I'm honest lol.
dbizal27/02/2020 18:56

I was going to move the Flush valve to the opposite side of the basin so I …I was going to move the Flush valve to the opposite side of the basin so I will have more room to play around with. Not sure how to turn the main water supply off from my flat so would rather just use the isolating valve if I'm honest lol.


be careful with those ballofix isolation valves as they tend to leak when you open them and close them again if they have not been opened for a while. i got a plumber round to fit basin taps recently and when he turned the ballofix isolation off it started to leak and he could not stop the leak when he closed it again.

so if you can not turn the water supply to the flat off be prepared to call in a plumber if that valve leaks.
Get a fill valve with a copper stem. Like this

40000453-KamVG.jpg
You are mixing up a fill valve with flush valve.
mutley127/02/2020 19:00

be careful with those ballofix isolation valves as they tend to leak when …be careful with those ballofix isolation valves as they tend to leak when you open them and close them again if they have not been opened for a while. i got a plumber round to fit basin taps recently and when he turned the ballofix isolation off it started to leak and he could not stop the leak when he closed it again.so if you can not turn the water supply to the flat off be prepared to call in a plumber if that valve leaks.


I've already opened it and closed it again as I bought a new Fill Valve... It did actually leak a tad for like an hour but then it sorted itself out (thankfully). I think I will have to test the valve outside in my cupboard to see if that's what shuts off the water in my flat... if not I will have to run down and turn everyone's water off in the block haha. 40000459-fp9AN.jpg
Edited by: "dbizal" 27th Feb
Willy_Wonka27/02/2020 19:02

Get a fill valve with a copper stem. Like this[Image] You are mixing up a …Get a fill valve with a copper stem. Like this[Image] You are mixing up a fill valve with flush valve.


Ah fill valve... sorry. But yeah I already bought one and it didn't fit. See above comment.
dbizal27/02/2020 19:05

Ah fill valve... sorry. But yeah I already bought one and it didn't fit. …Ah fill valve... sorry. But yeah I already bought one and it didn't fit. See above comment.



Then you need to cut a new piece of copper & refit with new olives on the lot of it above the isolation valve.. I doubt you will get a flexible pipe short enough.
dbizal27/02/2020 19:04

I've already opened it and closed it again as I bought a new Fill Valve... …I've already opened it and closed it again as I bought a new Fill Valve... It did actually leak a tad for like an hour but then it sorted itself out (thankfully). I think I will have to test the valve outside in my cupboard to see if that's what shuts off the water in my flat... if not I will have to run down and turn everyone's water off in the block haha. [Image]


i have learnt that those ballofix valves are not very reliable and going forward i am going to instruct plumbers to install a lever isolation valve instead of a ballofix one as they are more reliable. they are a little bit more expensive but only by a few quid.

i saw on a youtube video that the leak can stop if you leave and it settles but not always. ours didn't and so the plumber had to come back and remove the valve completely.

i had to put stopcock into a property last year as it didn't have one! and the plumber turned the water supply to the whole street off for about 5 minutes. he was really fast and installed a new stop cock in about 5 minutes, but our neighbour came out of her house and asked why the water supply had stopped, lol
mutley127/02/2020 19:11

i have learnt that those ballofix valves are not very reliable and going …i have learnt that those ballofix valves are not very reliable and going forward i am going to instruct plumbers to install a lever isolation valve instead of a ballofix one as they are more reliable. they are a little bit more expensive but only by a few quid.i saw on a youtube video that the leak can stop if you leave and it settles but not always. ours didn't and so the plumber had to come back and remove the valve completely.i had to put stopcock into a property last year as it didn't have one! and the plumber turned the water supply to the whole street off for about 5 minutes. he was really fast and installed a new stop cock in about 5 minutes, but our neighbour came out of her house and asked why the water supply had stopped, lol



No one is going to fix you lever isolation valves on sinks & toilets. In fact Mutley they are the same apart from you have a handle instead of a screwdriver mechanism.
mutley127/02/2020 19:11

i have learnt that those ballofix valves are not very reliable and going …i have learnt that those ballofix valves are not very reliable and going forward i am going to instruct plumbers to install a lever isolation valve instead of a ballofix one as they are more reliable. they are a little bit more expensive but only by a few quid.i saw on a youtube video that the leak can stop if you leave and it settles but not always. ours didn't and so the plumber had to come back and remove the valve completely.i had to put stopcock into a property last year as it didn't have one! and the plumber turned the water supply to the whole street off for about 5 minutes. he was really fast and installed a new stop cock in about 5 minutes, but our neighbour came out of her house and asked why the water supply had stopped, lol


Haha I had a water metre installed so pretty sure I have a stopcock in a cupboard somewhere lol.
Willy_Wonka27/02/2020 19:10

Then you need to cut a new piece of copper & refit with new olives on the …Then you need to cut a new piece of copper & refit with new olives on the lot of it above the isolation valve.. I doubt you will get a flexible pipe short enough.


I was going to switch locations of the Fill valve so should have more room to play with.
Willy_Wonka27/02/2020 19:14

No one is going to fix you lever isolation valves on sinks & toilets. In …No one is going to fix you lever isolation valves on sinks & toilets. In fact Mutley they are the same apart from you have a handle instead of a screwdriver mechanism.


i got a plumber to replace a ballofix isolation valve with a lever valve on a toilet pipe. it ran down from the toilet then bend 90 degrees so there was plenty of room for a lever valve. the plumber said that the lever valve are better than the ballofix valves, which tend to to leak. i have had a few ballofix valves leak when they get old but not the lever valves. they tend to last much longer.
dbizal27/02/2020 18:56

I was going to move the Flush valve to the opposite side of the basin so I …I was going to move the Flush valve to the opposite side of the basin so I will have more room to play around with. Not sure how to turn the main water supply off from my flat so would rather just use the isolating valve if I'm honest lol.


Well, now is the time to correct that! ..if you do any power / plumbing work you need to have the key points known to all, for the sake of not mixing water / power & the general confidence it brings to sorting out jobs such as this.

How short is your run without kinking the flexi hose, anything out there that fits?
mutley127/02/2020 19:27

i got a plumber to replace a ballofix isolation valve with a lever valve …i got a plumber to replace a ballofix isolation valve with a lever valve on a toilet pipe. it ran down from the toilet then bend 90 degrees so there was plenty of room for a lever valve. the plumber said that the lever valve are better than the ballofix valves, which tend to to leak. i have had a few ballofix valves leak when they get old but not the lever valves. they tend to last much longer.


Correct easier to turn on & off regularly without finding a screwdriver too.
(meaning even a 5 year old can do it if needed). ..& they are easier to open close for periodic maintainance checks.
Edited by: "Mr_Gus" 27th Feb
Just undo the fill valve & the top nut of the isolation valve. Work out how much copper you need & go & buy some olives & cut the copper you need & screw it all up.

Olives 15mm. £3.65 for 20 @ screwfix (you need only 2)
Copper pipe 300m £3.69 @ screwfix (you need about 9cms)
15mm Copper pipe cutter @ screwfix £9.49

That is all you need & you have enough to make a few mistakes
How about something like This obviously look for the right thread size combination but it should make up the distance you are short40000769-F3c1c.jpg
Edited by: "ding" 27th Feb
Mr_Gus27/02/2020 19:34

Well, now is the time to correct that! ..if you do any power / plumbing …Well, now is the time to correct that! ..if you do any power / plumbing work you need to have the key points known to all, for the sake of not mixing water / power & the general confidence it brings to sorting out jobs such as this.How short is your run without kinking the flexi hose, anything out there that fits?


That's what I have with a current fit. I 300mm to the second cut out of my basin so there are 400mm flexi pipes which would give me 100mm to play around with.
40000776-utVwQ.jpg
cool, you know you can get hoses with stop valves in too! (i'd prefer separate units but sometimes you just have to).
PS, hope that punch bag is holding up ok?
dbizal27/02/2020 19:39

That's what I have with a current fit. I 300mm to the second cut out of my …That's what I have with a current fit. I 300mm to the second cut out of my basin so there are 400mm flexi pipes which would give me 100mm to play around with.[Image]



You would have to cut the pipe at the wall to put a flex pipe on it & still the pipe would be too long.
Mr_Gus27/02/2020 19:41

PS, hope that punch bag is holding up ok?


Haha, now I fixed it to the ceiling it is holding up just fine It takes the weight of my punches at least haha.
this is where a sharpie pen is handy as a cutting guide / instructions on the bcks of cupboards / marking the maze of pipes under a kitchen sink when you take apart a foul smelling clogged drain & the plasti pipe has about 24 components (the multi colour ones help too). easier for future reference
NB when you are done, fill up the gaps around the pipes as they are rodent roads if you ever get an invasion.
Item number 82014 from Screwfix
Willy_Wonka27/02/2020 19:42

You would have to cut the pipe at the wall to put a flex pipe on it & …You would have to cut the pipe at the wall to put a flex pipe on it & still the pipe would be too long.


Could I not just so this?


40000880-fc7jX.jpg
Yeah you can do that, it won’t look too pretty, but will work just fine.
Would check out a plumbing wholesaler for alternate lengths before re-seating, save some energy, learn just as much, another reason to be able to turn water off for any diy'er is to take parts to wholesalers to ask for same / alternatives, as they may be throwing specifications at you (thank goodness for digital phones though).
dbizal27/02/2020 19:52

Could I not just so this? [Image]



Yes if you want to. But then you have an extra place to seal up properly where you remove the old fill valve & then you need to buy a new flex pipe & you still have the same problem with connections. Which would involve putting in a bit of new copper pipe or an additional fitting or removing the paint.
Willy_Wonka27/02/2020 19:56

Yes if you want to. But then you have an extra place to seal up properly …Yes if you want to. But then you have an extra place to seal up properly where you remove the old fill valve & then you need to buy a new flex pipe & you still have the same problem with connections. Which would involve putting in a bit of new copper pipe or an additional fitting or removing the paint.


You dont need copper, you can remove the pipe and top nut and put one end of the flexi on top of the isolator.
pinkleponkle27/02/2020 19:58

You dont need copper, you can remove the pipe and top nut and put one end …You dont need copper, you can remove the pipe and top nut and put one end of the flexi on top of the isolator.


This is what I was looking at doing rather than messing about with copper pipe and all that lol. Just a simple DIY job because the council before I bought this place done a 'Council job'. I won't even tell you about my Sink lol.
pinkleponkle27/02/2020 19:58

You dont need copper, you can remove the pipe and top nut and put one end …You dont need copper, you can remove the pipe and top nut and put one end of the flexi on top of the isolator.



Have you seen the measurements? It is about 6 cms. No flex pipe will do that. The OP would have to take it to the other side, & then seal the fill valve connection on what is removed, move it to the other side & ensure that side doesn't leak either then ensure the flex pipe is connected with a new piece of pipe with olive.
Edited by: "Willy_Wonka" 27th Feb
Willy_Wonka27/02/2020 20:01

Have you seen the measurements? It is about 6 cms. No flex pipe will do …Have you seen the measurements? It is about 6 cms. No flex pipe will do that.


He’s putting on the other side of the cistern, I would use a new tap connector, compression or soldered and a small piece of pipe, but I’m assuming the op has limited tools and plumbing materials.

one 500mm hose and reversing the fill location will work just fine.
Edited by: "pinkleponkle" 27th Feb
screwfix.com/p/f…22g

You could stick to original plan and cut the copper pipe well below the isolating valve and fit this. Just check you can fit a 12 inch hose without kinking.



40001097-kOEv0.jpg
Edited by: "ScubaDudes" 28th Feb
pinkleponkle27/02/2020 19:58

You dont need copper, you can remove the pipe and top nut and put one end …You dont need copper, you can remove the pipe and top nut and put one end of the flexi on top of the isolator.


yeah, we got this arrangement under our basin. it looks a little bit odd but the flexible hose connects directly on to the ballofix valve. i did wonder why they bothered as it would have been easier just to use a flexi hose with an inbuilt isolator but i guess the isolation valve was already there before they joined the flexible hose on to it.
mutley127/02/2020 20:26

yeah, we got this arrangement under our basin. it looks a little bit odd …yeah, we got this arrangement under our basin. it looks a little bit odd but the flexible hose connects directly on to the ballofix valve. i did wonder why they bothered as it would have been easier just to use a flexi hose with an inbuilt isolator but i guess the isolation valve was already there before they joined the flexible hose on to it.


Exactly that, easiest, quickest solution to the task in hand. Not the most pleasing on the eye but the most important thing is the water stays in the pipe until it comes out the end of the tap. They didn’t want to drain down the house to do the repair/replacement tap. Most wash hand basins are on water tanks so if you wanted to lose the existing isolator you might have to drain a big tank which is time consuming and you could then get air locks when the work is complete.

If it’s on a combi, unvented cylinder it’s a simple matter of stop cock, but then so many house owners don’t exercise their valves regularly and they seize up.
Edited by: "pinkleponkle" 27th Feb
mutley127/02/2020 20:26

yeah, we got this arrangement under our basin. it looks a little bit odd …yeah, we got this arrangement under our basin. it looks a little bit odd but the flexible hose connects directly on to the ballofix valve. i did wonder why they bothered as it would have been easier just to use a flexi hose with an inbuilt isolator but i guess the isolation valve was already there before they joined the flexible hose on to it.


If it's tucked under I don't really care how it looks as you won't really be able to see it anyway.
Just give it a hard pull, it will easily fit. Also get rid of the rubber washer on the outside of the cistern. If not you can gain 2-3mm either side of the iso valve by slipping the olives down.
Edited by: "themorgatron" 27th Feb
pinkleponkle27/02/2020 20:34

Exactly that, easiest, quickest solution to the task in hand. Not the …Exactly that, easiest, quickest solution to the task in hand. Not the most pleasing on the eye but the most important thing is the water stays in the pipe until it comes out the end of the tap. They didn’t want to drain down the house to do the repair/replacement tap. Most wash hand basins are on water tanks so if you wanted to lose the existing isolator you might have to drain a big tank which is time consuming and you could then get air locks when the work is complete.If it’s on a combi, unvented cylinder it’s a simple matter of stop cock, but then so many house owners don’t exercise their valves regularly and they seize up.


it was only this on the hot water pipe so it must have come from an old hot water tank like you say and they didn't want to drain down the tank. the cold water feed also has an isolation valve but the flexi hose is not connected direct to it but later on in the pipe as i guess they could turn the cold water mains supply off via the stopcock.
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