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    Poor Grenfell Victims only offered town houses in exchange

    for three generations crammed into 2 bed council flats....poor ducks. Wont somebody march or create a petition. Everyone deserves a house in Chelsea for £400 pcm don't they?

    Top comments

    Despicable agenda fueled thread by the OP.

    No surprise there then.

    We've had the biggest disaster in decades yet here we have users like davewave, shadey12, shauneco, Graham 1979 and philphil61 actually verbally attacking the survivors and calling them selfish.

    HUKD misc is at an all time low and it's down to this usual lot and several others who are full of such resentment for anything and anyone that is different to them.

    I thought there was a housing shortage, particularly in London. So where do these people want to live.

    I understand the need for the authorities to identify all victims, so have told the people sub letting, they will not face prosecution. But I would like to be assured that they will never ever be given council/social housing.

    OP try and imagine losing one of your family in a house fire (there was a case of a mother and son being rescued, and a fireman asking the son is there anyone else in the family and the reply was 'yes, my brother, but he's dead'). Now tell me if you think it's in order for the mum to be telling her surviving son after 3 weeks of living (let's be positive here, The Holiday Inn Kensington), that we've got a new home, but it's only temporary. If not just for the kids, you know, those small people that thrive on stability, surely someone should step up to the mark and act like a decent human being.
    123 Comments

    I thought they were supposed to get those luxurious homes?

    I thought there was a housing shortage, particularly in London. So where do these people want to live.

    I understand the need for the authorities to identify all victims, so have told the people sub letting, they will not face prosecution. But I would like to be assured that they will never ever be given council/social housing.

    Despicable agenda fueled thread by the OP.

    No surprise there then.

    Original Poster

    dtovey89

    Despicable agenda fueled thread by the OP. No surprise there then.


    agenda? what agenda? Be specific. Who wouldn't want to live in a town house in Chelsea/Kensington at social housing rates?

    Yeah I'm sure they'd rather have a house over their families. The death toll will most likely reach the hundreds. pretty disgusting comment but nothing more than I expect from the misc section these days from the usual suspects.

    dtovey8932 m ago

    Despicable agenda fueled thread by the OP. No surprise there then.


    What is his agenda?

    Original Poster

    Jb316

    Yeah I'm sure they'd rather have a house over their families. The death … Yeah I'm sure they'd rather have a house over their families. The death toll will most likely reach the hundreds. pretty disgusting comment but nothing more than I expect from the misc section these days from the usual suspects.


    These former residents have rejected the offer of a town house free for a year, and then charged at social housing level. This is in the most expensive place to live in UK...rather than the cramped conditions of 3 generations crammed into a 2 bed council flat - do you find that harsh, because if so I'll take the offer - sounds like a good offer tbh.

    I don't understand the three generations comment even after reading the article...did I miss something?

    That said

    If my home burnt down my insurance, if I could afford any, would put me into a hotel or suitable accommodation and then I'd have to wait until my home was rebuilt or condemned where I would have to start a new search for property that I could afford based on my current situation and insurance payout (no chance). If there is no insurance then I'd be homeless but wouldn't be given a council house because I'm a single male and therefore cannot give birth. (discrimination)

    Yes probably the cladding caused the fire to spread and therefore is the fault of the council + planning + government (Building Regs) but people should stop protesting and accept they have a roof over their head and be thankful for that, as there are thousands of homeless who would appreciate such a luxury, and wait for the right property to become available.

    As for not prosecuting subletting I don't agree the majority of tenants that sublet do it for financial gain (fraud) and even with the no prosecution will still not come forward because they know investigations/questions will be asked.

    Yes it was a terrible disaster that could of been averted but would the same pressure/protests/riots have occurred if it was a terrorist incident?

    If these families want permanent housing they should move out of London like anyone else would have to do

    Jb31621 m ago

    Yeah I'm sure they'd rather have a house over their families. The death …Yeah I'm sure they'd rather have a house over their families. The death toll will most likely reach the hundreds. pretty disgusting comment but nothing more than I expect from the misc section these days from the usual suspects.

    'These days' as apposed to when you joined, all those months ago?

    brum1well

    If these families want permanent housing they should move out of London … If these families want permanent housing they should move out of London like anyone else would have to do



    "Anyone else" would have their home rebuilt from insurance. Why should they be moved to a different county through no fault of their own. I was made homeless myself and council got me temp accommodation a few miles away.

    OP try and imagine losing one of your family in a house fire (there was a case of a mother and son being rescued, and a fireman asking the son is there anyone else in the family and the reply was 'yes, my brother, but he's dead'). Now tell me if you think it's in order for the mum to be telling her surviving son after 3 weeks of living (let's be positive here, The Holiday Inn Kensington), that we've got a new home, but it's only temporary. If not just for the kids, you know, those small people that thrive on stability, surely someone should step up to the mark and act like a decent human being.

    davewave

    These former residents have rejected the offer of a town house free for a … These former residents have rejected the offer of a town house free for a year, and then charged at social housing level. This is in the most expensive place to live in UK...rather than the cramped conditions of 3 generations crammed into a 2 bed council flat - do you find that harsh, because if so I'll take the offer - sounds like a good offer tbh.




    lol, yeah that's all that's involved. How about one of your mates losing their life (or maybe a relative). Still appealing?
    Edited by: "OllieSt" 5th Jul

    dtovey89

    Despicable agenda fueled thread by the OP. No surprise there then.



    Isn't that why we have misc in the first place?

    splatsplatsplat1 h, 3 m ago

    "Anyone else" would have their home rebuilt from insurance. Why should …"Anyone else" would have their home rebuilt from insurance. Why should they be moved to a different county through no fault of their own. I was made homeless myself and council got me temp accommodation a few miles away.


    This was a huge incident and in fairness to those in council accommodation, you get what your given paid for by the tax payer. We have people refusing to move becuase "it will lower their stand of life", as a tax payer I couldn't dream of living in the areas that they do.

    If my house burned down would the council give me compensation for my possessions?

    Original Poster

    OllieSt

    lol, yeah that's all that's involved. How about one of your mates losing … lol, yeah that's all that's involved. How about one of your mates losing their life (or maybe a relative). Still appealing?


    these are survivors, they are living in hotels and were previously living in cramped accomodation and therefore have been offered suitable larger accommodation free for the next year, perhaps you misunderstand their position?

    What do you think is a reasonable offer?

    davewave19 m ago

    these are survivors


    ..the point was obviously that many of them will have friends or family members that have died, which you completely fail to even acknowledge amongst all your whining. Funnily enough, I think we're aware that the people requiring re-accommodation are still alive.
    Edited by: "Ashe" 5th Jul

    davewave

    these are survivors, they are living in hotels and were previously living … these are survivors, they are living in hotels and were previously living in cramped accomodation and therefore have been offered suitable larger accommodation free for the next year, perhaps you misunderstand their position?What do you think is a reasonable offer?



    I misunderstand nothing including your callousness and your stupidity

    Watch the video and see if the little girl cries over the size of her accommodation and costs.. The video that follows also talks about home.

    A reasonable offer is permanent accommodation. It's quite straightforward.

    Why should that little girl who might only have ever known Grenfell Tower as home be placed into the 'temp accommodation' scenario. Do you know what that's like? Let me explain. It's living under conditions where if that little girl wants a pink room with Barbie wallpaper it's a bit mad to spend money on a place that they may or may not be living in in 13 months time. I know people that have been living in temporary accommodation for years, in limbo, not being able to close the door behind them and call it home.

    I suggest you spend some time with people that live in council property. They've got 2 arms and 2 legs and don't bite.




    Edited by: "OllieSt" 5th Jul

    Banned

    I think the real reason it's going to take so long to identify victims - is because a lot of them were illegal.

    Not PC to say that though is it?

    Well, my first abode was £20,000 in London, my school headmaster paid less than £500, so if supply were to equal to demand at these prices in real terms, and adjusted as people from other shire counties gravitate to London & SE then there is no need to fight over the houses. Additionally you get what you need as property at fair prices and then no need to come here to vent your spleen against the ones who gain little to nothing from the economic prosperity since the 1970s.
    .
    Social housing and free NHS were tremendous positive changes after WW2, they brought in tremendous positive changes in the well-being of the British people. It is madness to disown the very things that made Britain great as a whole. How come the low-income people from the end of WW2 have transformed into the undeserving poor in the 2010s? Not very we-were-in the-trenches together , we-are-in-it together, perhaps we need WW3 to equalise our human equality in value once again since one poor soul can fight as valiantly as one rich soul in the trenches.
    .
    The "agenda" thing means different things to different people, here it could mean human cleansing and segregation by day and night, another could be "A Tale of Two Cities" blah blah. In the case of RBKC, during the day-time, you can see rich and poor work together in High Street Ken, as night falls, the low income folks return to the north and the high income folks return to the south. The societal question, and its biggest challenge, is do we want segregation of humanity after sunset or by distance from central London (commute to London by rail and by car daily and spend ~3 hrs per day)?! Rather like have a go at the debasing the poor as worth-less, may be the questions are, do you and I deserve more from the economic prosperity in London itself rather than fighting over a few crumbs at Portebello or turn South Ken into bank safety deposit houses for the world?!




    Edited by: "splender" 6th Jul

    Banned

    splender

    Well, my first abode was £20,000 in London, my school headmaster paid … Well, my first abode was £20,000 in London, my school headmaster paid less than £500, so if supply were to equal to demand at these prices in real terms, there is no need to fight over the houses and to push the prices up and then come here vent your spleen against the ones who gains little to nothing from the economic propserity. The "agenda" thing means different things to different people, here it could mean human cleansing and segregation by day and night, another could be "A Tale of Two Cities" blah blah. In the case of RBKC, during the day-time, you can see rich and poor work together in High Street Ken, as night falls, the low income folks return to the north and the high income folks return to the south. The societal question, and its biggest challenge, is do we want segregation of humanity after sunset or by distance from central London?! Rather like have a go at the debasing the poor as worth-less, may be the questions is do you and I deserve more from the economic prosperity rather than fighting over a few crumbs at Portebello?!



    What are you on about? That's just a noise!!

    Get on The Guardian CIF I'm sure someone will be understanding. You could have a rant off?!

    Left wing hand wringing - a given!


    Edited by: "Hughsars" 5th Jul

    Hughsars6 m ago

    I think the real reason it's going to take so long to identify victims - …I think the real reason it's going to take so long to identify victims - is because a lot of them were illegal. Not PC to say that though is it?

    True, but if abbott gets her way they won't be illegal, problem solved.
    theguardian.com/uk-…ced

    Hughsars

    I think the real reason it's going to take so long to identify victims - … I think the real reason it's going to take so long to identify victims - is because a lot of them were illegal. Not PC to say that though is it?



    You are a genius if you can identify piles of ashes as illegals or legals.

    I'm surprised they're being so selective.

    Hughsars

    What are you on about? That's just a noise!!Get on The Guardian CIF I'm … What are you on about? That's just a noise!!Get on The Guardian CIF I'm sure someone will be understanding. You could have a rant off?! Left wing hand wringing - a given!


    . I bet you throw out the left wings in your KFC.

    Original Poster

    splender

    Well, my first abode was £20,000 in London, my school headmaster paid … Well, my first abode was £20,000 in London, my school headmaster paid less than £500, so if supply were to equal to demand at these prices in real terms, and adjusted as people from other shire counties gravitate to London & SE then there is no need to fight over the houses. Additionally you get what you need as property at fair prices and then no need to come here to vent your spleen against the ones who gain little to nothing from the economic prosperity since the 1970s. . Social housing and free NHS were tremendous positive changes after WW2, they brought in tremendous positive changes in the well-being of the British people. It is madness to disown the very things that made Britain great as a whole. How some the low income people poor from the end of WW2 have transformed into the undeserving poor in the 2010s? Not very we-were-in the-trenches together , we-are-in-it together, perhaps we need WW3 to equalise our human equality in value again.. The "agenda" thing means different things to different people, here it could mean human cleansing and segregation by day and night, another could be "A Tale of Two Cities" blah blah. In the case of RBKC, during the day-time, you can see rich and poor work together in High Street Ken, as night falls, the low income folks return to the north and the high income folks return to the south. The societal question, and its biggest challenge, is do we want segregation of humanity after sunset or by distance from central London (commute to London by rail and by car daily and spend ~3 hrs per day)?! Rather like have a go at the debasing the poor as worth-less, may be the questions is do you and I deserve more from the economic prosperity in London itself rather than fighting over a few crumbs at Portebello or turn South Ken into bank safety deposit houses for the world?!


    the middle classes are already segregated - they pay their way and don't expect to live in the richest part of UK for a pittance! the working/lower classes could take the chip off both of their shoulders in this case.

    We've had the biggest disaster in decades yet here we have users like davewave, shadey12, shauneco, Graham 1979 and philphil61 actually verbally attacking the survivors and calling them selfish.

    HUKD misc is at an all time low and it's down to this usual lot and several others who are full of such resentment for anything and anyone that is different to them.

    Graham1979

    This was a huge incident and in fairness to those in council … This was a huge incident and in fairness to those in council accommodation, you get what your given paid for by the tax payer. We have people refusing to move becuase "it will lower their stand of life", as a tax payer I couldn't dream of living in the areas that they do. If my house burned down would the council give me compensation for my possessions?


    As to your "If my house burned down would the council give me compensation for my possessions?"
    The answer to our society as a whole is that there are two answers or solutions. For those who earn enough of the share of the societal wealth this is through house building and house contents insurance cover; for those who do not earn enough of the share of the societal wealth then there is a state's safety net as insurance cover. They are both valid insurance schemes for British as a whole.
    As to the merits of the latter, then this is all history as to how the British Empire had transformed into modern Britain from the Victorian slumps through the two World Wars and a Cold War. The emergence of social housing and NHS came after WW2 and it was Labour's socialism.

    Why can't the council wave a magic wand and find all these suitable homes that have been mothballed just for emergency situations like this? Poor show.

    dtovey898 m ago

    We've had the biggest disaster in decades yet here we have users like …We've had the biggest disaster in decades yet here we have users like davewave, shadey12, shauneco, Graham 1979 and philphil61 actually verbally attacking the survivors and calling them selfish. HUKD misc is at an all time low and it's down to this usual lot and several others who are full of such resentment for anything and anyone that is different to them.


    no my little left-wing chicken pot, I certainly haven't. My issue relates to the "demand" from council house tenants that I pay to put them up in places that I could never afford and demand better than perfectly suitable accomdation in the interim period. Nobody can deny the Grenfell tower fire was a tragedy (a totally avoidable one quite possibly) however the council has been inundated with the need for emergency accommodation on a scale that would possibly rival a natural disaster (localised flooding etc). Fingers crossed the government "task force" will bring extra funding HOWEVER when people refuse shelter because they think it doesn't meet their standards then my patience runs very thin indeed very quickly indeed.

    davewave

    the middle classes are already segregated - they pay their way and don't … the middle classes are already segregated - they pay their way and don't expect to live in the richest part of UK for a pittance! the working/lower classes could take the chip off both of their shoulders in this case.


    We did not have this during the social housing boom, the social construct then was that the less well-offs were more deserving than the they do now. The social construct in the London Boroughs was that the rich and poor lived closer together. Social housing did not have any monetary in the commerial market until the right-to-buy came along and then the buy-to-let came along. Now we have buy-to-leave-empty.
    .
    What you want is more houses and social welfare for everyone, rather to fight amongst ourselves for the fewer and ever more expensive houses, then in future your house may be liquidated to pay for your own social care in old age. Just look at how Scandinavians and Germans structure their social care and welfare as models.

    Graham1979

    no my little left-wing chicken pot, I certainly haven't. My issue … no my little left-wing chicken pot, I certainly haven't. My issue relates to the "demand" from council house tenants that I pay to put them up in places that I could never afford and demand better than perfectly suitable accomdation in the interim period. Nobody can deny the Grenfell tower fire was a tragedy (a totally avoidable one quite possibly) however the council has been inundated with the need for emergency accommodation on a scale that would possibly rival a natural disaster (localised flooding etc). Fingers crossed the government "task force" will bring extra funding HOWEVER when people refuse shelter because they think it doesn't meet their standards then my patience runs very thin indeed very quickly indeed.


    Unless you earn more than £100,000 gross salary a year in SBKC, you are not contributing to their social care. South Kensington residents are the millionnaire from Arabia, Chinese, Malaysia, Europeans, Amercans, Russians, non-doms who are immigrants and they subsidise them, not the likes of you (unless you earn £100,000+ per year). They had started to come to South Ken in the 1960s and snapped up the properties as investments. They pay huge amounts of council tax and spend a lot of money from Knighbridge (which is Westminster) all the way to High Street Ken.
    Edited by: "splender" 5th Jul

    If any of the family's actually get a job or earn enough money not to be entitled to social housing how would that work. Even if say a few children became over 16 and not in full time education. Would these already traumatised and destroyed family's have to move out because they found a job or wanted a better life off benefits? That's really sad.

    There is a better life for them all else where in Europe, it would be have been nice to see the EU offer to relocate them.

    splender10 m ago

    [quote=Graham1979][quote=dtovey89] We've had the biggest disaster in …[quote=Graham1979][quote=dtovey89] We've had the biggest disaster in decades yet here we have users like davewave, shadey12, shauneco, Graham 1979 and philphil61 actually verbally attacking the survivors and calling them selfish. HUKD misc is at an all time low and it's down to this usual lot and several others who are full of such resentment for anything and anyone that is different to them.[/quote] \x0d\x0ano my little left-wing chicken pot, I certainly haven't. My issue relates to the "demand" from council house tenants that I pay to put them up in places that I could never afford and demand better than perfectly suitable accomdation in the interim period. Nobody can deny the Grenfell tower fire was a tragedy (a totally avoidable one quite possibly) however the council has been inundated with the need for emergency accommodation on a scale that would possibly rival a natural disaster (localised flooding etc). Fingers crossed the government "task force" will bring extra funding HOWEVER when people refuse shelter because they think it doesn't meet their standards then my patience runs very thin indeed very quickly indeed.[/quote]\x0d\x0aUnless you earn more than £100,000 gross salary a year in SBKC, you are not contributing to their social care. South Kensington residents are the millionnaire from Arabia, Chinese, Russians, non-doms who are immigrants and they subsidise them, not the likes of you (unless you earn £100,000+ per year).


    Maybe I do earn a 100k or maybe I don't however I can afford everything I have and own. I could afford to pay for my children and the roof over my head. I am saving for my own pension and the things I need and want. My gripe and I suspect to many outside the London "bubble" is that people are turning down suitable "interim" accommodation because they think it is beneath them. I would quite happily have seen the richest woman in London put up families at the palace.


    More Social housing means more people become dependent and never "own" their homes, there is no motivation to improve when the state is falling over itself to give you everything. Socialism is a busted flush and has never worked.

    You think we would have migration from Eastern Europe on the scale that we do if the people wouldn't have been supported on their arrival. The doctors and nurses and trades people, THE ACTUAL PEOPLE WE NEED, can afford their own accommodation. We have 3,500,000 immigrants and 1,000,000 UK citizens working in the EU, I would quite happily suspect that not many UK citizens will be living in Poland or the Czech Republic in a state funded house.

    groenleader

    There is a better life for them all else where in Europe, it would be … There is a better life for them all else where in Europe, it would be have been nice to see the EU offer to relocate them.



    Posts like this is what HUKD misc has to deal with.

    British citizens made homeless and not wanting to be shoved from pillar to post just to tick a box.

    Yet we have users like this telling them to get out the country probably because their skin colour isn't white.

    I've had a few weeks off politics in misc and will carry on with my hiatus now.

    Lol @ Graham talking about paying taxes as if anyone else doesn't...

    Edited by: "dtovey89" 5th Jul

    dtovey896 h, 56 m ago

    We've had the biggest disaster in decades yet here we have users like …We've had the biggest disaster in decades yet here we have users like davewave, shadey12, shauneco, Graham 1979 and philphil61 actually verbally attacking the survivors and calling them selfish. HUKD misc is at an all time low and it's down to this usual lot and several others who are full of such resentment for anything and anyone that is different to them.

    Link please to me calling anyone selfish (I won't go looking for comments to delete, unlike some)
    I really think people reeling a list of names off without any evidence is bringing misc down.

    If you are not forthcoming with evidence I look forward to your apology.

    Edit, just to add, try reading comments instead of just insulting people. Anyone would think your looking for usernames in a thread just to start throwing insults and accusations.
    Edited by: "shadey12" 6th Jul

    158 families evacuated plus however many who died but the block only had 127 flats. How many families can you get in each 1 or 2 bed flat? I doubt the council housed them like that so the must have been sub letting. Probably contributed to the death toll.

    Graham1979

    Maybe I do earn a 100k or maybe I don't however I can afford everything I … Maybe I do earn a 100k or maybe I don't however I can afford everything I have and own. I could afford to pay for my children and the roof over my head. I am saving for my own pension and the things I need and want. My gripe and I suspect to many outside the London "bubble" is that people are turning down suitable "interim" accommodation because they think it is beneath them. I would quite happily have seen the richest woman in London put up families at the palace.More Social housing means more people become dependent and never "own" their homes, there is no motivation to improve when the state is falling over itself to give you everything. Socialism is a busted flush and has never worked.You think we would have migration from Eastern Europe on the scale that we do if the people wouldn't have been supported on their arrival. The doctors and nurses and trades people, THE ACTUAL PEOPLE WE NEED, can afford their own accommodation. We have 3,500,000 immigrants and 1,000,000 UK citizens working in the EU, I would quite happily suspect that not many UK citizens will be living in Poland or the Czech Republic in a state funded house.


    I can tell you don't read or even know how many Brits claim benefits in other EU countries. ibtimes.co.uk/bri…091
    theguardian.com/uk-…-eu
    fullfact.org/eur…re/

    Edited by: "splender" 6th Jul
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