Possible health and safety breach at ASDA?

Well, basically, yesterday I witnessed approx 200 turkeys being unloaded from the back of a people carrier with no chiller.

This happened at an ASDA in Essex where a Renault people carrier was loaded with a lot (I believe it was around 200) turkeys for resale.
There was obviously no chiller at the back of the vehicle.

Am not sure whether the turkeys were sold on at normal price or discount.

Unloading the turkeys took atleast 15 minutes-add to that the time taken for transporting it.(Am not sure whether the vehicle arrived from another store or from where else!)

Anyone knows how far this breaches health and safety rules?? If it was sold on discount, would it make any difference to the situation?

Do i need to take this further?

Hope somebody can advise me on this.
Cheers everyone

34 Comments

Frozen food is 'supposed' to arrive with a core temp of -18c or below but you would be surprised at how many places will thake it at up to -8c. Dodgy, but without proof theres not a lot you can do tbh apart from reporting what you saw.

Original Poster

Shengis;1377016

Frozen food is 'supposed' to arrive with a core temp of -18c or below … Frozen food is 'supposed' to arrive with a core temp of -18c or below but you would be surprised at how many places will thake it at up to -8c. Dodgy, but without proof theres not a lot you can do tbh apart from reporting what you saw.



I really wanted to take a picture but that would have been quite risky. There was a lot of people around.
The turkeys were probably chilled, not frozen.

Am sure there are cameras that would have captured this if proof is needed, but that is taking it too far, or not?

Well if they were chilled then I think its +3/5c. Can't remember offhand (terrible really as I used to unload chill/frozen lorries lol). I wouldn't buy one from there though :lol:

Original Poster

Shengis;1377048

Well if they were chilled then I think its +3/5c. Can't remember offhand … Well if they were chilled then I think its +3/5c. Can't remember offhand (terrible really as I used to unload chill/frozen lorries lol). I wouldn't buy one from there though :lol:



cheers

I do wish I could have their a** kicked though. They deserve it. What was worse was that it was a group of managers dealing with the load.

We'll run a poll on Boxing day to see how many people have got the Tom-Tits in the Essex area!! LoL

John

Original Poster

johnnyshuttle;1377070

We'll run a poll on Boxing day to see how many people have got the … We'll run a poll on Boxing day to see how many people have got the Tom-Tits in the Essex area!! LoLJohn




lol

Might have been the Romford store :whistling:

Give them a break .... it's Christmas.
It's raw meat, it's not like they're chilled dairy products, cooked meats or similar.

Hat's off to all supermarket staff and local managers alike at this time.
The cr*p they have to put up both operationally and from many 'stressed out' customers in these days leading up to the big day is unbelievable and still they have to keep a smile on their faces.

These turkeys have probably been transferred either from another store or from a local supplier. Whilst it is not normal practice at this time of the year it often happens. Don't forget also that it's winter outside Sometimes it's colder out of the chiller than in it !

Talk of public health etc etc is a trifle OTT to be honest or would you like your neighbour to be able to phone up the authorities and have you prosecuted when they see you unloading your fresh meat from the back of the car ?

Supermarkets will operate some kind of chilled chain but again and especially at this time of year you would be hard pushed to see it carried out to the absolute letter of the "law".

Just because food is not under refridgeration does not mean it is instantly a health risk. Some people still shudder to see cheese kept under refridgeration. I would have been sacked in my first job if my boss had caught me refridgerating cheese. Fowl and game was invariably hung out of refridgeration. Butter etc was kept on marble blocks. Bacon was never kept under refridgeration until boned and sliced.

I'm not that sure we have a healthier population because everything now gets refridgerated, be interesting to know.

Banned

vbnmu;1377042

I really wanted to take a picture but that would have been quite risky. … I really wanted to take a picture but that would have been quite risky. There was a lot of people around.The turkeys were probably chilled, not frozen.Am sure there are cameras that would have captured this if proof is needed, but that is taking it too far, or not?




easy option , go and find the manager and ask Him whats going on.. they dont bite and you would have got their interpritation of the rules regarding transportation of unfrozen fresh food ..

hottoshop;1377158

I'm not that sure we have a healthier population because everything now … I'm not that sure we have a healthier population because everything now gets refridgerated, be interesting to know.



Interesting comment. It does seem that we breed 'weaklings' these days. Allergic to everything etc. Also back in the day, as you describe, nobody NEEDED to buy all this pro biotic ****. It does make you wonder if we are all dying out due to not having that internal struggle against germs etc.

Shengis;1377191

Interesting comment. It does seem that we breed 'weaklings' these days. … Interesting comment. It does seem that we breed 'weaklings' these days. Allergic to everything etc. Also back in the day, as you describe, nobody NEEDED to buy all this pro biotic ****. It does make you wonder if we are all dying out due to not having that internal struggle against germs etc.


I agree. but..................

Is'nt life expectancy nowadays, greater then it used to be?

Shengis;1377191

Interesting comment. It does seem that we breed 'weaklings' these days. … Interesting comment. It does seem that we breed 'weaklings' these days. Allergic to everything etc. Also back in the day, as you describe, nobody NEEDED to buy all this pro biotic ****. It does make you wonder if we are all dying out due to not having that internal struggle against germs etc.



Same sort of thing being proved now with regards to Asthma. Massive increase in children suffering from allergies. It goes on and on and on.
People are brainwashed by advertising and the media. They think everything should be sanitised, spotless, germ free blah, blah, blah.

Seems like, as always , it's a happy medium that's needed. Children need to wallow in the mud and dirt when very young to build up their immune system. They need to eat a few worms and pick up and eat those sweets stuck to the carpet behind the sofa. They shouldn't be fed chopped, shaped and stripped from the animals toenails factory processed meat and poultry.

And as for the volume of chemicals we inflict on our children through cleaners, toilet blocks, air fresheners, a spray for this and a spray for that, sheesh it's hardly suprising we are breeding a few sick generations.

And I haven't even started on what we allow to be put on/in our food to preserve and create a "perfect" product. Should we really have to peel apples to make them safe for our children to eat ?

Rant over ! Did you enjoy your Sunday lunch ? :w00t:

rizla01;1377278

I agree. but..................Is'nt life expectancy nowadays, greater … I agree. but..................Is'nt life expectancy nowadays, greater then it used to be?



Yes but I tink you'll find them what knows are predicting a decline in life expectancy due all sorts of reasons like above coupled with obesity.

Don't quote me but I think that's what I read recently

Original Poster

hottoshop;1377158

These turkeys have probably been transferred either from another store or … These turkeys have probably been transferred either from another store or from a local supplier. Whilst it is not normal practice at this time of the year it often happens. Don't forget also that it's winter outside Sometimes it's colder out of the chiller than in it !Talk of public health etc etc is a trifle OTT to be honest or would you like your neighbour to be able to phone up the authorities and have you prosecuted when they see you unloading your fresh meat from the back of the car ? Supermarkets will operate some kind of chilled chain but again and especially at this time of year you would be hard pushed to see it carried out to the absolute letter of the "law".Just because food is not under refridgeration does not mean it is instantly a health risk. Some people still shudder to see cheese kept under refridgeration. I would have been sacked in my first job if my boss had caught me refridgerating cheese. Fowl and game was invariably hung out of refridgeration. Butter etc was kept on marble blocks. Bacon was never kept under refridgeration until boned and sliced.I'm not that sure we have a healthier population because everything now gets refridgerated, be interesting to know.




Am sorry but when I unload food from my car then that goes towards my own consumption. You don't seem too aware of how its works.
When you do it for resale then you put other people's health at risk! Is it the same thing to u???

Original Poster

Perkzy;1377093

Give them a break .... it's Christmas.It's raw meat, it's not like … Give them a break .... it's Christmas.It's raw meat, it's not like they're chilled dairy products, cooked meats or similar.Hat's off to all supermarket staff and local managers alike at this time.The cr*p they have to put up both operationally and from many 'stressed out' customers in these days leading up to the big day is unbelievable and still they have to keep a smile on their faces.



So, coz its Christmas you can get away with anything!!!!

Tell u what, we all get some sort of stress from our respective jobs. This is part of the package. Does it mean we should be allowed to break the law? (if any was broken in this case)

I'm more interested in the internal cubic capacity of a people carier that can carry 200 turkeys.

That and someone who has 15 minutes to watch them being unloaded.:geek:

Original Poster

The response of some of the people on here has been amazing.

I bet they would see it in a different light had they fallen ill as a result.

Risks are part and parcel of life but when this puts the public at risk then its a different issue. But again, I am not too sure if any rules were actualy broken.

Original Poster

thesaint;1377448

I'm more interested in the internal cubic capacity of a people carier … I'm more interested in the internal cubic capacity of a people carier that can carry 200 turkeys.That and someone who has 15 minutes to watch them being unloaded.:geek:



uhhh...as i said, I believe it was 200. could have been less.
And as for the 15minutes period, well, guess what??? There are people who work on the shop floor and others, in the warehouse. am not sure u cud take the people carrier on the shop floor to unload. so yh, it went in the warehouse, and as I said, people do work there as well. So, not very difficult to notice certain things.

Perkzy;1377093

Give them a break .... it's Christmas.It's raw meat, it's not like … Give them a break .... it's Christmas.It's raw meat, it's not like they're chilled dairy products, cooked meats or similar.Hat's off to all supermarket staff and local managers alike at this time.The cr*p they have to put up both operationally and from many 'stressed out' customers in these days leading up to the big day is unbelievable and still they have to keep a smile on their faces.



Well said

I just commented to the wife about this thread and her response was...

"Who gives a ****, I didn't want one":lol:

I doubt it went very far to be honest so it was unlikely to have warmed too much.

I wondered round with sausages and gammon in my backpack midweek for a good hour and it was still chilled.

Just cook the stuff properly :thumbsup:

Original Poster

Tomomcd;1377581

I doubt it went very far to be honest so it was unlikely to have warmed … I doubt it went very far to be honest so it was unlikely to have warmed too much.I wondered round with sausages and gammon in my backpack midweek for a good hour and it was still chilled.Just cook the stuff properly :thumbsup:



U r probably right. and with the weather, its nt likely to have heated up too much :thumbsup:

vbnmu;1377441

Am sorry but when I unload food from my car then that goes towards my own … Am sorry but when I unload food from my car then that goes towards my own consumption. You don't seem too aware of how its works.When you do it for resale then you put other people's health at risk! Is it the same thing to u???



Sorry I didn't realise you lived on your own and only cooked for yourself.

VBNMU I'll try and keep this as lighthearted as possible, goodness knows there's enough aggression about at the moment without me adding to it .

I'm very aware of how "it" works having been responsible for chilled chains and food for 25 + years and in a supermarket environment amongst others.

What you described with the turkeys is believe you me the least of your problems health wise. For goodness sakes you don't even know for sure whether the turkeys were fresh or frozen. (By the way it matters not a jot whether they were being sold full price or reduced, all food has to be sold fit for human consumption.)

If you're serious about health issues and food then you would do well to research things like the importing of fresh food from third world countries, the intensive farming of certain animals as well as food labelling for products specifically marketed at children.
That's only the tip of the proverbial iceberg too.:whistling:

I'm not saying you shouldn't be concerned about supermarket practices, far from it, but in this instance you're more than likely barking up the wrong tree.

Respect to you and have a happy and healthy Christmas :santa::santa::santa:

Banned

Walked through the covered market at Oxford, they've got pigs, goats and pheasants hanging outside their shop. I do remember though while working at Tesco, refridgerated stock was allowed out for 15 minutes and frozen was 30 minutes any longer and you bin it.

lumoruk;1378061

Walked through the covered market at Oxford, they've got pigs, goats and … Walked through the covered market at Oxford, they've got pigs, goats and pheasants hanging outside their shop.



I saw that when I was down there the other week, I know exactly which one you mean and was telling everyone how disgusting it was when I got back.

Original Poster

hottoshop;1378037

Sorry I didn't realise you lived on your own and only cooked for … Sorry I didn't realise you lived on your own and only cooked for yourself. :)VBNMU I'll try and keep this as lighthearted as possible, goodness knows there's enough aggression about at the moment without me adding to it .I'm very aware of how "it" works having been responsible for chilled chains and food for 25 + years and in a supermarket environment amongst others.What you described with the turkeys is believe you me the least of your problems health wise. For goodness sakes you don't even know for sure whether the turkeys were fresh or frozen. (By the way it matters not a jot whether they were being sold full price or reduced, all food has to be sold fit for human consumption.)If you're serious about health issues and food then you would do well to research things like the importing of fresh food from third world countries, the intensive farming of certain animals as well as food labelling for products specifically marketed at children.That's only the tip of the proverbial iceberg too.:whistling: I'm not saying you shouldn't be concerned about supermarket practices, far from it, but in this instance you're more than likely barking up the wrong tree.Respect to you and have a happy and healthy Christmas :santa::santa::santa:



Fair enough am not sure whether they are fresh or frozen! But there are rules that apply to both. One way or another, they probably did break the law.

In regards to the other issues u mentioned, well I am certainly aware of them. Unfortunately am not in a position to alter the policies of different nations. Nor to change the way of life of people. At the moment, I have other priorities and allocate my time as best as I can.

Who knows what the future holds.

I do what I can, when I can. As in the case of the ASDA issue, I am trying to get others' opinion on what I should do.

Some people do try you see.

Original Poster

hottoshop

Thinking about it, they were refrigerated stock.
As somebody mentioned, 15 minutes was the rule at Tesco. Am sure the same applies at Asda.

'I'm not saying you shouldn't be concerned about supermarket practices, far from it, but in this instance you're more than likely barking up the wrong tree.'

So what is right then?

Ok vbnmu you obviously have a problem with this so here are the following links for you to lodge a formal complaint. Your first port of call should really be the local Store Manager where you saw the "problem".
If you are not happy with the Store Managers explanation then contact the following.
Customer Services,
ASDA House,
Southbank,
Great Wilson Street,
Leeds,
LS11 5AD

Telephone: 0500 100055
Fax: 0113 241 7732
Minicom: 0800 0683003

If you are still not happy or do not wish to go down the Store route (you will be asked if you have contacted the store) then use the following link to find the contact of your local Food Standards Enforcer. (Environmental Health Officer)
food.gov.uk/enf…ea/

Have a nice Christmas :santa:

thesaint;1377448

I'm more interested in the internal cubic capacity of a people carier … I'm more interested in the internal cubic capacity of a people carier that can carry 200 turkeys.That and someone who has 15 minutes to watch them being unloaded.:geek:



Yeh, wonder if it was a Nissan, you'd normally have about 200 illegals getting out!!:whistling:

John

Banned

vbnmu;1378167

One way or another, they probably did break the law.


'probably' just doesn't cut it. Who's to say that the delivery lorry didnt break down 100 yards outside the store and they were simply transferring them?

Original Poster

csiman;1379416

'probably' just doesn't cut it. Who's to say that the delivery lorry … 'probably' just doesn't cut it. Who's to say that the delivery lorry didnt break down 100 yards outside the store and they were simply transferring them?



As I explained, the length taken to unload the stock leads me to believe that one way or another it wasn't all legal.

vbnmu;1384400

As I explained, the length taken to unload the stock leads me to believe … As I explained, the length taken to unload the stock leads me to believe that one way or another it wasn't all legal.



How long would it take to make it legal? :thinking:

Banned

vbnmu;1384400

As I explained, the length taken to unload the stock leads me to believe … As I explained, the length taken to unload the stock leads me to believe that one way or another it wasn't all legal.


frozen or chilled, temperature would barely drop at all in 15-30 minutes unless it was high summer.

couple of points. vehicle not being refrigerated don't matter. Its the temperature of the product that counts, and in the last week to Xmas it was colder outside than inside. why didn't you challenge someone at the time. ?do you KNOW that they DIDNT temp check the products to make sure they were ok. ?How close is the next store, it seems like 3 miles from the website? seems to me you aint got many facts?
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