Private nursery reported me to child protection services.

42
Found 27th Mar 2014
My grandson has been attending the nursery for almost 3 years. He attends 2 days a week from 9am until 5pm and apparently has been involved in inappropriate action. When I asked them what this incident was they said they were unable to discuss it with me and had already been in contact with child protection services.
I then informed them I would be making a complaint and removing my grandson from the nursery. I was contacted within 30 minutes from the nursery saying they had contacted the parents of the other child involved and could then tell me what the incident was. The other child has claimed that my grandson had put his thing on hers.
However this incident is only here say as there were no teachers around whilst the 2 children were in the bathroom alone.
I understand that this kind of behaviour can be relating to sexual abuse but this is not the case.
I have no problem with child protection services being involved as I am certain I have nothing to be worried about so I just have to wait for what's coming. However I would like to make a complaint against the nursery as after almost 3 years at the nursery surely child protection was not the best approach to the situation and secondly why were the 2 children alone in the toilet in the first place. Also is it fair that they had to ask the other parents if it was ok for me to be informed?
Any advice on where I stand would be appreciated. Thankyou.
Community Updates
MiscNursery
41 Comments
I realise you are upset about this but any facility who are charged with the care of children in loco parentis have a duty under law to report incidents to child protection to protect the children as well as themselves. Other places including schools and hospitals can also take this action. Having taken that action the nursery should have left it for child protection to make and complete their enquiries and for them to decide whether the event needed to be made public to all parents. You can always approach Citizens Advice other than that I would wait to see the outcome of any action they have taken before you consider your next move.
I would be complaining as well. firstly they shouldn't have been child of both sexes alone in the bathroom. seconds its a bit of a jump. social work could have been contacted for investigation but it should have been assessed quickly. Sounds harmless kids of young age do these things had he been 6-16 then you could see an issue but not a tot. see citizens advice but I'd report the nurse to the care commission as seems they don't supervise
ofsted is where you need to complain.
nursery*
I missed the bit where you were reported to child protection services
So, even at that age, the assumption of guilt is with the male?
Original Poster
billdoors

I realise you are upset about this but any facility who are charged with … I realise you are upset about this but any facility who are charged with the care of children in loco parentis have a duty under law to report incidents to child protection to protect the children as well as themselves. Other places including schools and hospitals can also take this action. Having taken that action the nursery should have left it for child protection to make and complete their enquiries and for them to decide whether the event needed to be made public to all parents. You can always approach Citizens Advice other than that I would wait to see the outcome of any action they have taken before you consider your next move.


As I have said I welcome any investigation the child protection services feels they need to do and I understand your point about the nursery following protocol however my grandson is only 4 years old and has been attending the nursery for 2 and a half years surely this was inappropriately handled considering they know my grandson very well? And also the children being alone plus no evidence to the fact that anything actually happened?
when my son was 5 he was accused of doing this by his mum with his step sister.

I knew my son as he lived with me not his mum and knew it was an impossibility.

2 years down the line his step sister was taken off his mum. Turns out she had been systematically abused by a bloke who lived opposite to her.

Maybe, as has happened in this case, it is the young girl who is being abused.

subbed.
Pretty much an own goal for the nursery, if they left 2 infants in a toilet alone and now a 'claimed' incident has taken place with no witnesses then they are very much in a sticky situation. As mentioned OFSTED and the law regarding safe guarding children (Childcare Act 2006) should NEVER be left alone and supervised at all times.

safenetwork.org.uk/hel…spx

Toilet ratios
Adults that haven’t previously volunteered and that haven't had the necessary vetting checks, should not be left alone with children or take them to the toilet unaccompanied.


It therefore may be necessary, in larger groups of children, to encourage bigger groups to take a comfort break together
For example, with a ratio of two adults to ten children

one adult can supervise hygiene duties
one adult can supervise safety and a head count

The recommended number of toilet facilities for children are

children under five years old- one toilet per twenty children
children over five years old- one toilet per ten children
disabled children- one toilet per ten children

If the group has children of mixed genders, there should be at least one responsible adult of each gender supervising visits to the toilet.


Edited by: "Alfonse" 27th Mar 2014
I too, am puzzled by the title of the post. Why do you say: Reported "me" to the CPS? Anyway, as someone has already pointed out - they do have a duty to report anything and the way things are today with people suing left, right and centre and stories of misrepresentation, abuse and neglect - I don't blame them. It is just correct procedure. It will all work out fine; I'm certain; but only after the proper steps are taken.


Also, I don't think the length of time someone has known someone else should have any bearing or reflection on a case like this. I only use this as an example but there are many cases where someone has known 'someone' for years and would never had thought they were capable of something....etc...etc... Yes, I know we're talking about a toddler here - that's why I'm sure this will all blow over. Just be glad that the place your grandson goes to have a system in place for following proper care procedure and the welfare of the children are paramount on their agenda.

Best regards, Phsy.
Phsycronix

Just be glad that the place your grandson goes to have a system in place … Just be glad that the place your grandson goes to have a system in place for following proper care procedure and the welfare of the children are paramount on their agenda.



And this is where I have issue, under 5's being left unsupervised in mixed gender toilets is a big no no, so no I don't feel that proper care procedures has taken place from what has been described.
Original Poster
Alfonse

Pretty much an own goal for the nursery, if they left 2 infants in a … Pretty much an own goal for the nursery, if they left 2 infants in a toilet alone and now a 'claimed' incident has taken place with no witnesses then they are very much in a sticky situation. As mentioned OFSTED and the law regarding safe guarding children (Childcare Act 2006) should NEVER be left alone and supervised at all times.http://www.safenetwork.org.uk/help_and_advice/best_safeguarding_practice/Pages/adult_children_ratios.aspxThankyou very much for the information provided, I will be sending my complaint forward to ofsted and shall let them investigate the situation further.Toilet ratiosAdults that haven’t previously volunteered and that haven't had the necessary vetting checks, should not be left alone with children or take them to the toilet unaccompanied.It therefore may be necessary, in larger groups of children, to encourage bigger groups to take a comfort break togetherFor example, with a ratio of two adults to ten children one adult can supervise hygiene duties one adult can supervise safety and a head count The recommended number of toilet facilities for children are children under five years old- one toilet per twenty children children over five years old- one toilet per ten children disabled children- one toilet per ten children If the group has children of mixed genders, there should be at least one responsible adult of each gender supervising visits to the toilet.

Alfonse

If the group has children of mixed genders, there should be at least one … If the group has children of mixed genders, there should be at least one responsible adult of each gender supervising visits to the toilet.

But if they're the same gender that's fine... if they get up to anything it's probably "just a phase" X)
Alfonse

And this is where I have issue, under 5's being left unsupervised in … And this is where I have issue, under 5's being left unsupervised in mixed gender toilets is a big no no, so no I don't feel that proper care procedures has taken place from what has been described.



I don't believe anyone has yet mentioned "mixed gender" toilets, have they? As for proper care 'procedure' being followed - I meant in the clerical term and not to do with an individual workers carelessness (or just turning their back for a split second!) in their task at hand. I am not disagreeing with you, as your principal is correct. However, lots of children in a small area can be like trying to count how many bees are in a hive and one could've snuck in to the loo before the other one etc. so things happen. As to whether the employee has failed in their task to properly check and follow working 'procedure' is the issue, which will obviously come out in the aftermath.

Therefore, Alfonse's "own goal" statement is also a relevant one but they still have to follow proper procedure; regardless; do they not?
Phsycronix

I don't believe anyone has yet mentioned "mixed gender" toilets, have … I don't believe anyone has yet mentioned "mixed gender" toilets, have they? As for proper care 'procedure' being followed - I meant in the clerical term and not to do with an individual workers carelessness (or just turning their back for a split second!) in their task at hand. I am not disagreeing with you, as your principal is correct. However, lots of children in a small area can be like trying to count how many bees are in a hive and one could've snuck in to the loo before the other one etc. so things happen. As to whether the employee has failed in their task to properly check and follow working 'procedure' is the issue, which will obviously come out in the aftermath.Therefore, Alfonse's "own goal" statement is also a relevant one but they still have to follow proper procedure; regardless; do they not?



Under 5's still have to be supervised at all times, tragedies and issues are avoided when proper practices are followed

bbc.co.uk/new…033

This highlights split second not paying attention, god forbid this should ever happen again.
Banned
Yep Nursery is at fault. Idiots.
I'm surprised they contacted you about the incident actually and didn't contact the authorities straight away and then let them contact you. Same thing as with the other parents involved you think authorities spoke to the children 1st.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to report the nursery.
U5's by their own admission were on their own in the toilet.

This is extremely dangerous. Anything could happen which is why the laws exist.
Am I the only one who thinks this has been blown out of proportion?
A toddler curious about the differences between male and female apparently did something inappropriate and cps got involved?

Wouldn't just explaining to the child why it was inappropriate and telling him not to do it be more reasonable?

I could maybe understand if it was a regular occurrence and he was putting his wang on everyone systematically or if this was an older child but I don't see a need for cps when a simple "this is something you shouldn't do" talk would surfice
StevenBrown

Am I the only one who thinks this has been blown out of proportion?A … Am I the only one who thinks this has been blown out of proportion?A toddler curious about the differences between male and female apparently did something inappropriate and cps got involved?Wouldn't just explaining to the child why it was inappropriate and telling him not to do it be more reasonable?I could maybe understand if it was a regular occurrence and he was putting his wang on everyone systematically or if this was an older child but I don't see a need for cps when a simple "this is something you shouldn't do" talk would surfice



totally agree, but they have made the action to involve other agencies without thinking, the more you think about it though the more the nursery sounds inept
StevenBrown

Am I the only one who thinks this has been blown out of proportion?A … Am I the only one who thinks this has been blown out of proportion?A toddler curious about the differences between male and female apparently did something inappropriate and cps got involved?Wouldn't just explaining to the child why it was inappropriate and telling him not to do it be more reasonable?



Unfortunately that's the way society has gone. 20 years ago it would probably have panned out in the way you suggest. It's ridiculous. Kids just can't be normal kids any more.
As someone has mentioned the Girl could have initiated it and is being abused I would say it is best to be safe than sorry later. The nursery should have immediately told you the issue though as the boy could have been spoken to and be confused about what has happened but not able to explain to the parent. The nursery clearly handled this very badly and I would be very pixxed off and would also remove my child from them and report them for not supervising.
Original Poster
Child protection have now contacted me they have already investigated and have requested that the doors be removed from 2 of the available toilets and see no reason to take further action, apologies for the incorrect title as I felt it was against me due to the fact that behaviour like this is apparently a sign of abuse or neglect so didn't realise that CPS were firstly assessing the toilet situation at the nursery. However even when I asked them when this incident actually happened they said they didn't know and I then said don't you think you should?

I am removing my grandson from the nursery more for the way the situation was dealt with then anything else. I also asked my grandson what they were doing in the toilet and he said he was wiping her bum cos it had poo in it, when I asked why he said cos she asked me to and there was no teachers there cos they were busy.

Thanks everyone for your help and advice, I have sent an email to the nursery with my complaint and informing them my grandson will no longer be attending and have also requested to know when the incident occurred along with their version of the event.
Im sorry but this is daft. a young is going to notice he has something a girl hasnt and ask questions or discuss it. its a bloody child not a grown adult abuser, this country is a joke
Edited by: "Havince" 27th Mar 2014
debobble

Child protection have now contacted me they have already investigated and … Child protection have now contacted me they have already investigated and have requested that the doors be removed from 2 of the available toilets and see no reason to take further action, apologies for the incorrect title as I felt it was against me due to the fact that behaviour like this is apparently a sign of abuse or neglect so didn't realise that CPS were firstly assessing the toilet situation at the nursery. However even when I asked them when this incident actually happened they said they didn't know and I then said don't you think you should?I am removing my grandson from the nursery more for the way the situation was dealt with then anything else. I also asked my grandson what they were doing in the toilet and he said he was wiping her bum cos it had poo in it, when I asked why he said cos she asked me to and there was no teachers there cos they were busy.Thanks everyone for your help and advice, I have sent an email to the nursery with my complaint and informing them my grandson will no longer be attending and have also requested to know when the incident occurred along with their version of the event.




you have done right thing



id still report the place for poor running
Original Poster
Havince

you have done right thingid still report the place for poor running


I will look into taking it further but would like to be placed clearly in the picture on their side as CPS explained they question the care worker who found the pair in the bathroom with their underwear down and then sent them into the toilet but apparently this happened after the so called inappropriate behaviour but agree with you its natural for 4 year old to be curious especially considering he is an only child and think that inappropriate behaviour is a very strong way of putting it.
They probably don't even let them play mummies and daddies anymore.
The nursery should have informed both parties and unless the child had displayed such (alleged) behaviors at other times during their 3 years at the nursery then child protection was probably not the best option. saying that if something had happened previously then again the parents/carers should have been informed and an action plan of who is told and how the child is supported discussed before child protection services were informed (unless there is direct evidence of wrongdoing in which case the child/ren safety comes first.)
maybe the private nursery has been slated in an inspection for lack of child protection awareness and is making a point to say they are aware..just a thought.
debobble

Child protection have now contacted me they have already investigated and … Child protection have now contacted me they have already investigated and have requested that the doors be removed from 2 of the available toilets and see no reason to take further action, apologies for the incorrect title as I felt it was against me due to the fact that behaviour like this is apparently a sign of abuse or neglect so didn't realise that CPS were firstly assessing the toilet situation at the nursery. However even when I asked them when this incident actually happened they said they didn't know and I then said don't you think you should?I am removing my grandson from the nursery more for the way the situation was dealt with then anything else. I also asked my grandson what they were doing in the toilet and he said he was wiping her bum cos it had poo in it, when I asked why he said cos she asked me to and there was no teachers there cos they were busy.Thanks everyone for your help and advice, I have sent an email to the nursery with my complaint and informing them my grandson will no longer be attending and have also requested to know when the incident occurred along with their version of the event.



Yeah, you are doing the right thing, shame the whole situation was just the cause of the nursery being inept at every point.
op sorry you went through this but am sure u now understand why, but it must have still been very difficult for you.

am sure we can all think of examples of things under 5's do that could be thought of as a bit suspect.

I can remember things my brothers kids said.

nephew about his sister, has she lost her tail? was it at the park ? ( my nice was always loosing things, like gloves hats, toys usualy at the park.

Why do grown ups have hair on their bums? ( this was a scary one) It turns out he seen mens bums when brother took him swimming at the local baths - changeing rooms
What a player.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/images/5018883.jpg

*i'll get me coat now.
you have done the right thing by removing your grandson. I would also report this to ofsted
Sounds like a terrible ordeal.

I would definitely report them, sounds like they were trying to cover their asses by getting CPS called on you
Are they supposed to turn a blind eye?, Look what happened to baby p. They have to investigate incidents, May be harsh but nothing to hide, nothing to fear. I appreciate it's not nice but they've got to do their job.
Original Poster
shauneco

Are they supposed to turn a blind eye?, Look what happened to baby p. … Are they supposed to turn a blind eye?, Look what happened to baby p. They have to investigate incidents, May be harsh but nothing to hide, nothing to fear. I appreciate it's not nice but they've got to do their job.


I do appreciate that and I truly am not upset about CPS being involved it was more how it was handled by the nursery. Also when they refer to inappropriate behaviour - its a vile way of putting it, he's 4 not 14.
lynne192

. Sounds harmless kids of young age do these things



Would it still be deemed as harmless had it been your own daughter/granddaughter?

OP, The nursery have followed the correct procedure whether you think this is right or not.

I seriously think there could be underlying issues with your Grandson, i know you're not going to like that and i hope i'm wrong.
debobble

I have sent an email to the nursery with my complaint and informing them … I have sent an email to the nursery with my complaint and informing them my grandson will no longer be attending and have also requested to know when the incident occurred along with their version of the event.


Not sure thats a good idea. Look at it from your grandsons point of view - he's being going to this nursery for several years......removing him now is going to be upsetting for him and he may associate his removal as "punishment" for having done something wrong. It sounds like the nursery acted with caution, child protection acted sensibly and to remove him from the nursery is not going to achieve anything other than upset your grandson. I'd mull it over for a few days before making any decisions......
Original Poster
transit

Would it still be deemed as harmless had it been your own … Would it still be deemed as harmless had it been your own daughter/granddaughter?OP, The nursery have followed the correct procedure whether you think this is right or not.I seriously think there could be underlying issues with your Grandson, i know you're not going to like that and i hope i'm wrong.


I think your completely missing my point, I can deal with the fact that CPS was contacted what I am upset about is that I found out after the fact and was not clearly placed in the picture. Had my grandson actually done what he has been accused of then knowing about it in the right time meant that I could of dealt with it and explained that it is not something you do not approach him about it a week or two later as I don't know when it actually occurred. In my personal opinion I just think that the fairest way to deal with it would be to have me and my grandson in as soon as they were aware and informed me what had happened and then explained the guidelines that they need to follow.

As for the underlying issues with my grandson your right I don't appreciate that comment and can inform you couldn't be further from the truth. I have already stated in another comment what my grandson has said happened, aside from that it also clearly states that this is an unsupervised incident therefore no one knows what actually happened and to insinuate the issue is with my grandson is a horrible thing to say.
I was simply asking for advice as I was scared not nasty accusations.
Original Poster
gari189

Not sure thats a good idea. Look at it from your grandsons point of view … Not sure thats a good idea. Look at it from your grandsons point of view - he's being going to this nursery for several years......removing him now is going to be upsetting for him and he may associate his removal as "punishment" for having done something wrong. It sounds like the nursery acted with caution, child protection acted sensibly and to remove him from the nursery is not going to achieve anything other than upset your grandson. I'd mull it over for a few days before making any decisions......


I can completely appreciate what you are saying. However the reason I want to withdraw him is I don't feel it is the safest place for him any longer. If they were not watching when something like this happened what will be the next thing that happens when they are not paying attention?
My grandson will be moving to main school in September so perhaps this is all for the best so that he can join a nursery in the school and make some friends before he starts full time.
Original Poster
fanpages

Do you know for sure that the Child Protection Services (not Crown … Do you know for sure that the Child Protection Services (not Crown Prosecution Service, that I initially read with your acronym usage) have not already begun proceedings? Have they already begun interviewing other parents, the other child, the Nursery school workers, &/or, indeed your grandson?Sorry if this in insensitive, but you have not mentioned your grandson's parents in this thread.Are you the primary carer/appointed guardian? Shouldn't they be writing letters, &/or contacting other parties, not you?


Firstly before your rude input I had already stated in comment 24 that CPS (I will continue using that acronym as this entire thread has been about Child Protection so its pretty silly for you to think it meant Crown Prosecution) have been in contact and apart from the removal of the toilet doors see no need to investigate further.
I am the primary carer hence the whole thing has been about me and my grandson.
Post a comment
Avatar
@
    Text

    Top Discussions