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No he is not.
Talk about wanting to take advantage.
Benefits are there for people who need them, not ones that can take a £50k lump sum.
You both should take a good look at yourselves.
hotukdeals.com/dis…426

"Hi guys my father has worked most of his life .
He is now 65 .
He gets his state pension and PIP and housing and council tax benefit .
He lives a good life can’t have more than £6000 in his bank or he loses part of that benefit .
It’s time for him to get his private pension which isn’t big in any way but will obviously effect all the above .
He wants to take the lump sum which is around £50K after taxes and gift it to me .
I will be using it to purchase a house ( well it’s a big deposit ) for me to start off getting 2-3 rentals for my pension ! ( carpenter/Joiner me ! )
Is this gifting allowed ?
Might need to speak to a fanatical adviser ?
Cheers guys .
No sarky comments!
My dad has worked from 14-59 so he deserves help from the government as he has put so much in . "
Edited by: "tregs" 22nd Jun
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Edited by: "yozzman1234" 4th Oct
34 Comments
No he is not.
Talk about wanting to take advantage.
Benefits are there for people who need them, not ones that can take a £50k lump sum.
You both should take a good look at yourselves.
deeky22/06/2019 20:11

'He is on PIP , ESA , housing benefit, council tax benefit'You sure he …'He is on PIP , ESA , housing benefit, council tax benefit'You sure he isn't missing anything?Make sure you’re getting the right entitlements


@@
Edited by: "yozzman1234" 4th Oct
yozzman123422/06/2019 20:13

Comment deleted


Once the lump sum hits his bank account, the benefits will stop. ALL OF THEM. AS IT SHOULD BE.
You say that he's been putting in around £8k a year over his working life? How much has he taken out due to benefits, free health care etc.?
I'm not sure you're going to get the advice that you want to hear.
yozzman123422/06/2019 20:15

Comment deleted


It was easy to find the answer to your question.


moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/…its
'Deprivation of assets

You are not allowed to intentionally reduce your assets or savings to increase the amount you get in benefits. The Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) calls this deprivation of assets.

Deprivation of assets can include:

  • giving away money
  • transferring ownership of a property
  • buying possessions which are excluded from means testing, for example cars and jewellery.
If you have done any of these things before making a claim for benefits, the DWP will look at when you got rid of your savings and assets.

If it’s believed you might have deprived yourself of savings or assets, the DWP or your local council, might look at the evidence to decide if it was deliberate.

If at the time, you would not have been able to predict needing benefits, then it might not count as deprivation of assets. You may be asked to provide paperwork and receipts to back up the date and the reasons why you got rid of savings or assets.

If it’s decided you have deliberately deprived yourself of savings or assets, you will be treated as if you still had them. This is called notional capital.

The notional capital will be added to the assets and savings you do have and will affect the amount you will get in benefits.'


citizensadvice.org.uk/deb…ot/
'If you apply for means tested benefits, money from your pension that you would be entitled to (as well as any money that you withdraw) will be considered when working out your capital and income.

If you already get means tested benefits they could be reduced or stopped if you don’t take money out of your pension that you're entitled to take. If you don’t take money out, you will be treated as having 'notional income', which means this money will affect your entitlement to benefits.

If you take a lump sum amount from your pension and spend it quickly then apply for benefits, you might not be eligible because the money you've taken from your pension could be counted as 'notional capital' - this means it's counted as capital when working out if you're eligible for benefits.

So you should consider the following when deciding whether to take money out of your pension pot:

  • if you take income from your pension pot, the amount will be considered when working out if you're eligible for means tested benefits - so your entitlement will reduce or you could lose your eligibility
  • if you are entitled to take income from your pension and choose not to take it you will be treated as having notional income
  • the more capital or income you take at once the more it will affect your entitlement
  • any money you take out as a lump sum could mean your entitlement gets reassessed
  • if you spend a lump sum quickly and become entitled to more benefit as a result the benefit decision maker could decide your motivation for spending the money was to make sure it didn’t affect your means tested benefits, you could be seen to still have the money and have your benefits reduced or lose benefits

In short - no, he can't blow it so he can keep getting his benefits.
yozzman123422/06/2019 20:23

Comment deleted


I've just given you advice above. How much do you need? Read up on 'Notional capital' if you're still unclear.
deeky22/06/2019 20:28

I've just given you advice above. How much do you need? Read up on …I've just given you advice above. How much do you need? Read up on 'Notional capital' if you're still unclear.


Read my reply
yozzman123422/06/2019 20:28

Read my reply


That's rather different to 'expensive household items , or car , or camper van'...
hotukdeals.com/dis…426

"Hi guys my father has worked most of his life .
He is now 65 .
He gets his state pension and PIP and housing and council tax benefit .
He lives a good life can’t have more than £6000 in his bank or he loses part of that benefit .
It’s time for him to get his private pension which isn’t big in any way but will obviously effect all the above .
He wants to take the lump sum which is around £50K after taxes and gift it to me .
I will be using it to purchase a house ( well it’s a big deposit ) for me to start off getting 2-3 rentals for my pension ! ( carpenter/Joiner me ! )
Is this gifting allowed ?
Might need to speak to a fanatical adviser ?
Cheers guys .
No sarky comments!
My dad has worked from 14-59 so he deserves help from the government as he has put so much in . "
Edited by: "tregs" 22nd Jun
if he takes the lump sum and spends it, they will still consider that as assets and it will affect his benefits.
Note that ESA (edit: and PIP) is only awarded below pension age, so that could disappear soon, so getting that £100 on top of state pension could well make a difference. so please check all options thoroughly before making a decision.
Edited by: "donster" 22nd Jun
yozzman123422/06/2019 20:44

Comment deleted


you would need to make them believe that he did not intentionally try to spend the money so that it doesn't affect his benefits. the fact that he goes on a shopping spree will give this impression to anyone reviewing the situation independently. it is more that he has to prove to them that he didn't do so to change his financial status for benefits and not that they have to prove he did so.

if they don't believe him then they won't give him the benefits and once they have made this decision it is very difficult to get his benefits back through their appeal process. i would be cautious in taking this action as it may back fire.
Good advice for places to check from @deeky , but he has to tread carefully as stated to not be seen to be intentionally reducing his assets to continue to claim some benefits . Pensionwise would be another good place for advice .


As I understand the system there would be no problem using some of the money to fulfil a retirement dream of buying a motorhome , new tele etc or even taking dream holidays .

He is hardly going to buy a motorhome to "cheat the system" due to the horrendous depreciation and high ownership costs of such a vehicle .

I'm sure the IFA will be able to give better advice , but as I understand it the lump sum can be used to buy a few luxuries some folks have dreamt of having all their working lives .

Sadly we have certain members on here who wouldn't understand what a days work is ,let alone a lifetimes work and think they will look clever by posting what they believe are populist comments . Sorry a certain member is , not for the first time ,looking a bit silly !

Hope your dad gets to buy a few of the luxuries he has worked all his life for (as he should be able to ) without being reduced to the poverty line , and ignore certain members on here , as everyone else does
yozzman123422/06/2019 20:44

Comment deleted


Not a hope.
I know someone who was on PIP and had a big back payment due to the appeal system or something.
The payment took them over the £6.5k or whatever in their bank account.
The DWP sent them out a letter years later saying that their ESA may have been miscalculated in a couple of years period and they could put in a claim.
They won the claim, but because the backdated PIP payment had taken them over the threshold within that period, they weren't entitled to the ESA addition that they were due.
By the sounds of it, they didn't take anything else into account.
But you've probably had better advice on here already.
His PIP will not change as it is not means tested.

He MIGHT have Contribution Based ESA (£111+ wkly) within his existing full ESA payment if yes this will stay as well.

When is he old enough to get his old age pension?

Can he buy his rented property?
Edited by: "bigbill" 22nd Jun
He wont lose pip, thats a different payment. He will more than likely lose all other benefits.

Its all well & good lets say “gifting” you money or “buying essentials” tell you now a tv definatly is not an essential item. Thats a luxury.

Need to tread very very carefully as the dwp wouldnt think twice about taking away benefits.

Oh and last but not least, they will know your dad will have a pension or due monies from a private pension by his national insurance number they are all linked into one big system.

Personally i would take the 1st option. He has all his rent and council tax paid For
Edited by: "Caroline_1993" 22nd Jun
yozzman123422/06/2019 20:13

Comment deleted


Not a chance he has put in £350k on a lowish salary unless he was on £38,000 gross pay. On £20,000 per year, the deductions are £2,600 per year.

£5,000 couches, oled tvs, cruises etc will most certainly be seen as deprivation of assets, and rightly so. Take the £100 per month and gain a sense of satisfaction that hes not taking so much from the taxpayers.
Edited by: "chocci" 23rd Jun
He could draw out the first 25% which is tax free and spend that on re-furnishing his flat. You have said he is in poor health, so not quite sure how he would cope on a 'dream holiday'.
Firstly I would like to apologise for some of the nasty comments here. I would take the lump sump of money & invest in property. You could buy a house in the north for that much & get £400 a rent a month. Also would give him the opportunity to leave some inheritance.
adamderak23/06/2019 09:37

Firstly I would like to apologise for some of the nasty comments here. I …Firstly I would like to apologise for some of the nasty comments here. I would take the lump sump of money & invest in property. You could buy a house in the north for that much & get £400 a rent a month. Also would give him the opportunity to leave some inheritance.



did you read the op? the op doesnt want to take the lump sum and lose any benefits. They would if they invested the lump sum in property and had rental income.
Take the 25% tax free. Then take the monthly payments, he will not lose the lump sum when he dies it will be passed down...
chocci23/06/2019 06:25

Not a chance he has put in £350k on a lowish salary unless he was on …Not a chance he has put in £350k on a lowish salary unless he was on £38,000 gross pay. On £20,000 per year, the deductions are £2,600 per year.£5,000 couches, oled tvs, cruises etc will most certainly be seen as deprivation of assets, and rightly so. Take the £100 per month and gain a sense of satisfaction that hes not taking so much from the taxpayers.


Not sure the exact amount mate but he was on £30-£36K a year for over 40 years so not sure how that works out . He stupidly stopped putting into his pension 10 years into his job or the pension you of been 4 times the amount.
He hasn’t had the best of luck the past 2 years so trying to uplift him a little .
Put it in a child’s account
yozzman123423/06/2019 10:04

Comment deleted


Your not getting the point! He can only take the Lump sum!! Its that simple. Dwp take away benefits for missed appointments through their own errors. They would stop your dads benefits in a heartbeat. Like i mentioned above. Everything is connected into one system by your national insurance number. If your dad gets a pension private or not they will know and find out.


Seems to me like your now trolling. Your planning on defrauding the benefits system. I would love to be the financial advisor when asked this question. I would laugh you out of my office.
Edited by: "Caroline_1993" 23rd Jun
How's he going to manage in a camper van if he can hardly walk?

What did he spend his wages on each month? Whilst it is none of my business, I just wondered why on that level of salary was he in rented accommodation and in need of replacing the furnishings? Campervans do seem to hold their prices, but to spend that amount on one seems madness to me - I would prefer a couple of luxury holidays a year than blowing nearly £50,000 on one, but each to their own!
Basically take the £5999. That’s within the rules and he will continue to get the same income as he has now whilst saving the state £100 a month. There are no ways around it, pensions are supposed to provide income and benefits are only meant to make up the gap between income and a very basic standard of living. It’s unfortunate that your parent did not save more as they then would have had an income level above the need for benefits and would have benefitted from a pension income.
About the deprovation of Assets .... If (X) took the 49000 how soon after taking it could he then reclaim benefits? What is expected? for someone in that situation.
PIP is not means tested , so would be paid anyway. and if X is 65, (1 year from SPA) 12 months benefits is worth ?? £6000 say ??
DWP would also expect to see receipts for any and all goods purchased .
Why not defer the payment till he is over SPA (66) and see what his income is then.
Do you know if your Dad will be entitled to Full state pension ? see MIG

Why does everyone think that being a Landlord (of a distant house) is both easy , and a money tree. A frail person would find it very difficult I suspect ...
Rather than asking people in a forum like this for pension advice I would suggest making an appointment with Pension Wise which is a government free body set up for everyone approaching retirement. They will go through all the options and give you independent free advice.
yozzman123424/06/2019 16:14

Comment deleted


Where did you get the £21k deductions from £70k withdrawal from?

First 25% is tax free, then £10k is tax free, then 20% tax on the remainder

So 70k - 17.5k - 10k = 42.5k x 20% = 8.5k deductions
Edited by: "chocci" 24th Jun
Would a Financial Advisor be fully up to date on DWP rules and all the ins and outs of benefits etc?
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