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Property deed

86
Posted 31st Oct
I am looking into whether a conveyancer has given me bad advice as the photocopied property deed that they had sent to me has a page missing, which is very critical as it contains important details about the property.

I have only noticed it this evening as I am looking through the papers with regard to an issue that has come up with the property and critically the issue is contained on the missing page!

I have found a hard copy of the property deed in my file but I can not remember if this came from the conveyancer or from Land Registry themselves later on.

It looks more official and is not a photocopy. It does contain the missing page obviously.

Anyone know where this document would have come from? See pic of the document. It is a deed with the previous owner's name on it and so my name has not yet been added to that deed.
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How the heck would anyone...never mind, I'll see you in 24 pages
Let me get this right.
You bought a property years ago. You have both an original (Certified copy) and a photocopy.
There is no real recollection of where the copy came from.
You can’t have checked it at the time.
You ask advice for a legal matter on a shopping forum.

AND you expect if there is a claim, they won’t just think you lost a page....

I’ve had 50+ kids trick or treating at my door tonight. It’s been a lot let scary than reading in here. Is the property a bridge by chance?
eslick31/10/2019 19:57

People get banned for less than this


Nope, it's been discussed. He's not breaking any rules.
mutley131/10/2019 21:57

I am closing this thread but expect one on how to sue a conveyancer


Ok, no worries. I'll start researching now so that I can hopefully be of assistance to you again
86 Comments
So you’ve bought the property now? I can’t see you’ve added a picture?
38868809-lEmcI.jpg
Speak to your conveyancer in the morning and query it. Then go from there?
That is just the office copies of the property you own/intend to purchase - have you bought the property now?

These documents are now just electronically stored with the land registry you can obtain a copy of the title to your property (or anyone’s for that matter) for around £3 directly from the land registry’s website
Dpowell331/10/2019 18:27

So you’ve bought the property now? I can’t see you’ve added a picture?


yes, many years ago, which is why i can not remember where the paper work came from. a problem has now come to light on the property and i think i may have a claim against the solicitors who advised me at the time.
How the heck would anyone...never mind, I'll see you in 24 pages
mutley131/10/2019 18:33

yes, many years ago, which is why i can not remember where the paper work …yes, many years ago, which is why i can not remember where the paper work came from. a problem has now come to light on the property and i think i may have a claim against the solicitors who advised me at the time.


Ahh ok fair enough, what’s the problem? I’d definitely speak with the law firm who acted in your purchase and query with them in the morning
Dpowell331/10/2019 18:31

That is just the office copies of the property you own/intend to purchase …That is just the office copies of the property you own/intend to purchase - have you bought the property now? These documents are now just electronically stored with the land registry you can obtain a copy of the title to your property (or anyone’s for that matter) for around £3 directly from the land registry’s website


so that could have come from the solicitors themselves? they may have sent me that and the photocopied version? as the photocopied version does not contain the missing page. if that pictured in the photo does not come from them then i would have a stronger case against them as they clearly did not send me all the information needed.
Dpowell331/10/2019 18:31

That is just the office copies of the property you own/intend to purchase …That is just the office copies of the property you own/intend to purchase - have you bought the property now? These documents are now just electronically stored with the land registry you can obtain a copy of the title to your property (or anyone’s for that matter) for around £3 directly from the land registry’s website


Also when you have bought the property your solicitor will send a form to the land registry called an AP1 to register your ownership, dependent on the complexity of the title and/ or the land registry turnaround time at that particular point it could take anywhere from 8 weeks to a few months after completion before you’re sent the updated title to the property showing your name
mutley131/10/2019 18:37

so that could have come from the solicitors themselves? they may have …so that could have come from the solicitors themselves? they may have sent me that and the photocopied version? as the photocopied version does not contain the missing page. if that pictured in the photo does not come from them then i would have a stronger case against them as they clearly did not send me all the information needed.


Yes, either the people you bought the property from left it in the house on completion for you or it was sent to you from the solicitor who acted for you on completion
Dpowell331/10/2019 18:39

Yes, either the people you bought the property from left it in the house …Yes, either the people you bought the property from left it in the house on completion for you or it was sent to you from the solicitor who acted for you on completion


it was not left at the house, i would have remembered that.
would a document like that only come on completion? i want to establish if I had seen that document pictured during the conveyancing process as I need to know if I was ill advised by not given all the information necessary before exchange of contract / completion.
mutley131/10/2019 18:42

it was not left at the house, i would have remembered that. would a …it was not left at the house, i would have remembered that. would a document like that only come on completion? i want to establish if I had seen that document pictured during the conveyancing process as I need to know if I was ill advised by not given all the information necessary before exchange of contract / completion.


Yes you should have seen that document or at the very least have been given a full report as to it’s contents prior to exchange I.e. any rights you have, rights others may have over your property, restrictions affecting the land (restrictive covenants) etc
Dpowell331/10/2019 18:44

Yes you should have seen that document or at the very least have been …Yes you should have seen that document or at the very least have been given a full report as to it’s contents prior to exchange I.e. any rights you have, rights others may have over your property, restrictions affecting the land (restrictive covenants) etc


it puzzles me why they have sent me that document and a photocopied version as well? doesn't seem to make any sense to send them both? may be they took a photocopy and so just sent me all the papers they have on file for the purchase as they don't need them?
mutley131/10/2019 18:49

it puzzles me why they have sent me that document and a photocopied …it puzzles me why they have sent me that document and a photocopied version as well? doesn't seem to make any sense to send them both? may be they took a photocopy and so just sent me all the papers they have on file for the purchase as they don't need them?



Phone them in the morning?
When you were buying that property the lawyer who acted for you would never have had that document in their possession.

Back in the day before the Land Registry brought in electronic title deeds the solicitor who acted for the seller would obtain the sellers title deeds, make photocopies of those documents and send them to your solicitor (this is called the draft contract pack) the original deeds are then passed to your solicitors on completion.

If the sellers solicitor only sent say 3 out of 4 pages of a particular document then your solicitor should have raised this as a query with the sellers solicitor.
does @fearona know about this thread
considering you seem to buy more houses than anyone else on hotukdeals, you tend to have more problems and ask for help more than anyone else on hotukdeals.
Edited by: "adamspencer95" 31st Oct
Treboeth31/10/2019 18:55

does @fearona know about this thread


That's what I thought, I did not even read the description I just scrolled down to look for a comment and the latest discussion tally.
adamspencer9531/10/2019 18:59

considering you seem to buy more houses than anyone else on hotukdeals, …considering you seem to buy more houses than anyone else on hotukdeals, you tend to have more problems and ask for help more than anyone else on hotukdeals.


It seems there are still plenty of people who haven't twigged yet, as Dpowell3 demonstrates.
mutley131/10/2019 18:49

it puzzles me why they have sent me that document and a photocopied …it puzzles me why they have sent me that document and a photocopied version as well? doesn't seem to make any sense to send them both? may be they took a photocopy and so just sent me all the papers they have on file for the purchase as they don't need them?


Yeah, possibly.
Don’t you have to claim for things within three years? I have no idea about housing/property but they usually use that amount of time for most things so is it possible here? Just may be worth looking into before spending more time on it if it will get you nowhere.
deeky31/10/2019 19:29

It seems there are still plenty of people who haven't twigged yet, as …It seems there are still plenty of people who haven't twigged yet, as Dpowell3 demonstrates.


38869570-MHdMQ.jpg


[ hotukdeals.com/dis…634 ]
Dpowell331/10/2019 18:53

When you were buying that property the lawyer who acted for you would …When you were buying that property the lawyer who acted for you would never have had that document in their possession.Back in the day before the Land Registry brought in electronic title deeds the solicitor who acted for the seller would obtain the sellers title deeds, make photocopies of those documents and send them to your solicitor (this is called the draft contract pack) the original deeds are then passed to your solicitors on completion.If the sellers solicitor only sent say 3 out of 4 pages of a particular document then your solicitor should have raised this as a query with the sellers solicitor.


thanks. it would make sense that the other side would send this across after completion or exchange as the sale may fall through and i assume there is only one office copy?

the letter from my solicitor state that i should read the document which attaches to the title deed, where there are restrictive covenants and clauses. she then list out all the points that i need to pay attention to, but critically it did not contain the issue that has now come to light, which makes me think that she did not have that page otherwise she would have commented it on it and brought it to my attention along with the other restrictive covenants.

the question then is whether I have a claim against her as she did not send me the full document and she did not highlight an important clause in the document. if i had already had sight of the office copy before exchange, then she could claim that i should have read it and fully understood it.
choccie3231/10/2019 19:41

Don’t you have to claim for things within three years? I have no idea a …Don’t you have to claim for things within three years? I have no idea about housing/property but they usually use that amount of time for most things so is it possible here? Just may be worth looking into before spending more time on it if it will get you nowhere.


i did look into that. you have 6 years to claim negligence but that time only starts when the issue come to light. the issue has just come to light so i am well within the time frame to claim.
mutley131/10/2019 19:45

thanks. it would make sense that the other side would send this across …thanks. it would make sense that the other side would send this across after completion or exchange as the sale may fall through and i assume there is only one office copy?the letter from my solicitor state that i should read the document which attaches to the title deed, where there are restrictive covenants and clauses. she then list out all the points that i need to pay attention to, but critically it did not contain the issue that has now come to light, which makes me think that she did not have that page otherwise she would have commented it on it and brought it to my attention along with the other restrictive covenants.the question then is whether I have a claim against her as she did not send me the full document and she did not highlight an important clause in the document. if i had already had sight of the office copy before exchange, then she could claim that i should have read it and fully understood it.



What is the issue that came to light?
mutley131/10/2019 19:47

i did look into that. you have 6 years to claim negligence but that time …i did look into that. you have 6 years to claim negligence but that time only starts when the issue come to light. the issue has just come to light so i am well within the time frame to claim.


But how will they know it only just came to light? Won't they say that such important documents should be checked for inaccuracies straight away and so you should have noticed it 'at the time' and not many years later?
People get banned for less than this
eslick31/10/2019 19:57

People get banned for less than this


Nope, it's been discussed. He's not breaking any rules.
Let me get this right.
You bought a property years ago. You have both an original (Certified copy) and a photocopy.
There is no real recollection of where the copy came from.
You can’t have checked it at the time.
You ask advice for a legal matter on a shopping forum.

AND you expect if there is a claim, they won’t just think you lost a page....

I’ve had 50+ kids trick or treating at my door tonight. It’s been a lot let scary than reading in here. Is the property a bridge by chance?
Oneday7731/10/2019 20:00

Let me get this right. You bought a property years ago. You have both an …Let me get this right. You bought a property years ago. You have both an original (Certified copy) and a photocopy. There is no real recollection of where the copy came from. You can’t have checked it at the time. You ask advice for a legal matter on a shopping forum. AND you expect if there is a claim, they won’t just think you lost a page....I’ve had 50+ kids trick or treating at my door tonight. It’s been a lot let scary than reading in here. Is the property a bridge by chance?


i think it would be easy for a judge to see what happened. i have the photocopy of the deed that the solicitor had sent me and it still has the original staple in it so it can be seen that it has not been tampered with. in addition the fact that the page was missing is re-enforced by the fact that she stated all the covenants in a summary in her advice letter, but those contained on this missing page were not mentioned in her summary.

this is why i asked about when the office copy would have been sent to me as it appear that her advice is based on a document that is not complete.
Edited by: "mutley1" 31st Oct
mutley131/10/2019 18:49

it puzzles me why they have sent me that document and a photocopied …it puzzles me why they have sent me that document and a photocopied version as well? doesn't seem to make any sense to send them both? may be they took a photocopy and so just sent me all the papers they have on file for the purchase as they don't need them?


Photocopy is Pre completion hard copy is sent post completion once you own the property. Sometimes it goes to mortgage lender where you take a mortgage
What’s the actual issue is it a covenant you wasn’t made aware of?
Stevelow_21231/10/2019 20:18

What’s the actual issue is it a covenant you wasn’t made aware of?


thanks for confirming the timing of the office copy. there is a restrictive covenant in the deed which states that there are costs associated with the property on an adhoc basis. this cost has now come to light several years after purchase. i was not aware of this covenant and i have already contacted the solicitor. she says that the covenant in the deed states that there are costs associated with the property and so there is nothing that i can do.

however, i was just looking at the deed again this evening to check the clauses that she refers to as i had sent her a copy of the deed, and i just happen to pick up the photocopy version, thinking it would be an exact copy of the office copy, which i had sent to the solicitor, but i could not find the clause that she states and so i looked at the office copy and saw that it was there but not on the photocopy version.
mutley131/10/2019 20:25

thanks for confirming the timing of the office copy. there is a …thanks for confirming the timing of the office copy. there is a restrictive covenant in the deed which states that there are costs associated with the property on an adhoc basis. this cost has now come to light several years after purchase. i was not aware of this covenant and i have already contacted the solicitor. she says that the covenant in the deed states that there are costs associated with the property and so there is nothing that i can do.however, i was just looking at the deed again this evening to check the clauses that she refers to as i had sent her a copy of the deed, and i just happen to pick up the photocopy version, thinking it would be an exact copy of the office copy, which i had sent to the solicitor, but i could not find the clause that she states and so i looked at the office copy and saw that it was there but not on the photocopy version.



Update us in the morning when you have phoned them
mutley131/10/2019 20:25

she says that the covenant in the deed states that there are costs …she says that the covenant in the deed states that there are costs associated with the property and so there is nothing that i can do.


Oh no! I really hope that's not the end of it
If you wasn’t sent the office copy Pre purchase and the covenant wasn’t brought to your attention by the conveyencor in my opinion you have a case. I’m no legal expert mind, just have experience of buying a few properties recently.
Stevelow_21231/10/2019 20:29

If you wasn’t sent the office copy Pre purchase and the covenant wasn’t bro …If you wasn’t sent the office copy Pre purchase and the covenant wasn’t brought to your attention by the conveyencor in my opinion you have a case. I’m no legal expert mind, just have experience of buying a few properties recently.


i would think i do have a case. it is the solicitor's job to make sure that legal documents are complete and that their advice are based on full information. i can not be expected to spot missing pages in a legal document when they have been scrutinised by the solicitor. that is the whole point of a solicitor. it is their job to get all the information about a property, to analyse the legal jargon and highlight the important points to their client. if there were costs involved, she should have highlighted this to me as a risk so i can make an informed decision whether or not to buy the property or to change my offer price. the sudden cost has come as a bit of a shock as i was never informed that there was going to be any when i bought the house.
mutley131/10/2019 20:34

the sudden cost has come as a bit of a shock as i was never informed that …the sudden cost has come as a bit of a shock as i was never informed that there was going to be any when i bought the house.


Go and have a nice lie down and call them tomorrow. Hopefully it will all turn out ok. I really feel for you mutters
mutley131/10/2019 18:33

i think i may have a claim against the solicitors who advised me at the …i think i may have a claim against the solicitors who advised me at the time.


I love it when sequels get teased in their current stories.

Looking forward to “Do I have a claim?”. Hopefully won’t be far off as I’m on the edge of my seat here.
Biddy231/10/2019 20:52

I love it when sequels get teased in their current stories.Looking forward …I love it when sequels get teased in their current stories.Looking forward to “Do I have a claim?”. Hopefully won’t be far off as I’m on the edge of my seat here.


Calm down biddles. Gotta get a few pages out of this one first
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