pvc window frame repair

76
Posted 11th FebEdited by:"mutley1"
My tenants have drilled a hole in the pvc window frame to pass through an extension lead so they can use electrical equipment in the garden!

They have said that they are going to repair the hole as I have told them to remove the cable as they are not allowed to do that.

Anyone know what is the best method of repair so I can work out whether I can let them do the repair or get a window specialist in and send them the bill?

They are going to get their dad to the repair as he is a builder so hopefully he will know what he is doing, but I want to know what he should be doing.

Can the hole be plugged with external silicone or has the repair got to be a bit more complicated than that?
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mutley111/02/2020 22:15

i have been a landlord for a long time so i am fully aware of the law …i have been a landlord for a long time so i am fully aware of the law irrespective of some of the silly comments from people on this thread who knows nothing about the law on tenancy, and do not seem to have any respect for other people's properties, including their own apparently as they seem to be quite happy for a hole to be drilled into their window in such a way.the tenants are in breach of contract drilling hole in a window to pass an extension lead to the garden as this would be classed as damage as well as putting the property and themselves at risk as extension leads are not designed to be left in the open. i am fully entitled to get the window repaired by a professional and bill them and enforce the removal of the cable.however i do not want to be going down this route so i have allowed them to do the repair themselves to a satisfactory standard. i wanted to understand what a satisfactory standard would be and how much money we are talking about so i can assess the problem.they are fully aware that they should not have done this so they have agreed to remove the extension cable and repair the window frame. so they are not being obstructive, otherwise i would have treated this issue very differently.


Landlord for a long time & fully aware of the law, still comes to shopping forum seeking advice for more or less their entire life’s work, then has the audacity to call out “stupid comment”
Looks to me like we still live in fantasy land
mutley111/02/2020 18:27

we are selling so we are reducing our portfolio. you can see why!


Of course we can see why. Nearly everything you have posted seems to show tired looking property and shoddy workmanship. Tenants deserve better and what you will find is that they will behave better. If that window looked decent the chances are the tenant would never have drilled a hole right through the frame. Horses for courses
OP

Have you considered the implications of the safety of the tenants in your property. Again perhaps you should speak with your legal team because you might find that you could fall foul of regulations now that you are aware of this issue. I would suggest you put in writing that you insist that this cable is removed immediately to cover yourself in the event of any accident.
Edited by: "OllieSt" 11th Feb
OP have you got your legal team on to this quite serious matter.

I wouldn't let the father any where near the window. Put the job out to tender with an appropriate number of window specialists


You should consider an eviction notice otherwise it will just be the thin edge of the wedge and you can expect more of the same when they vacate.
Edited by: "OllieSt" 11th Feb
76 Comments
39884094-SrjRv.jpg
view from the outside above. view from the inside below.

39884094-dAnv9.jpg
WOW!

just put some silicone in it if you must be that pedantic


hopefully, you will be installing an outdoor electrical point like most decent landlords would have provided anyway
I thought it was going to be a big giant hole! Its just a little tiny baby one, just fill it in.
chocci11/02/2020 17:04

WOW! just put some silicone in it if you must be that pedantichopefully, …WOW! just put some silicone in it if you must be that pedantichopefully, you will be installing an outdoor electrical point like most decent landlords would have provided anyway



Why is it pedantic? Do you drill holes in your window frame? I think it's a pretty dumb thing to do.
Fill it with milliput

amazon.co.uk/Mil…8-2


Or just silicone sealer for the easiest.
Edited by: "ScubaDudes" 11th Feb
They are going to get their dad to the repair as he is a builder so hopefully he will know what he is doing, but I want to know what he should be doing

Replacing the whole window frame.

Anything less and you've allowed them to walk all over you.
Edited by: "OllieSt" 11th Feb
m1keyp1key11/02/2020 17:14

Why is it pedantic? Do you drill holes in your window frame? I think it's …Why is it pedantic? Do you drill holes in your window frame? I think it's a pretty dumb thing to do.



OllieSt11/02/2020 17:23

They are going to get their dad to the repair as he is a builder so …They are going to get their dad to the repair as he is a builder so hopefully he will know what he is doing, but I want to know what he should be doingReplacing the whole window frame. Anything less and you've allowed them to walk all over you.


Why does it matter at this point in time (before they give the keys back) if what they are doing is considered "maintaining the property"?
chocci11/02/2020 17:04

WOW! just put some silicone in it if you must be that pedantichopefully, …WOW! just put some silicone in it if you must be that pedantichopefully, you will be installing an outdoor electrical point like most decent landlords would have provided anyway


so you would be happy for someone to drill holes in your window frame to pass an extension cable through would you?

a landlord does not have to provide external electrical points. using an extension by opening the window to pass the cable through would not be asking a lot. i do that all the time for the front garden as there is an electrical socket in the back garden but not the front.

i don't think it is pedantic to remove that cable as it looks ridiculous if nothing else.
ScubaDudes11/02/2020 17:18

Fill it with milliput …Fill it with milliput https://www.amazon.co.uk/Milliput-Epoxy-Putty-Superfine-White/dp/B002CNEWAM/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?keywords=milliput+upvc&qid=1581441395&sr=8-2Or just silicone sealer for the easiest.


it's an external repair so the material has to be good enough for external use as it has to withstand freezing temperatures and wet weather condition.

the putty is for internal use so i don't think that would be appropriate. silicone for external use would probably work but you would see the repair as that won't be invisible.


How is drilling a hole in a window frame and then chucking something in it, maintaining it?

It's repairing, not maintaining.
m1keyp1key11/02/2020 17:35

How is drilling a hole in a window frame and then chucking something in …How is drilling a hole in a window frame and then chucking something in it, maintaining it? It's repairing, not maintaining.


as long as there is silicone around it to stop water going in, why is it an issue?

I don't mean to sound confrontational, I really do want to know what the issue is.
MadeDixonsCry11/02/2020 17:36

as long as there is silicone around it to stop water going in, why is it …as long as there is silicone around it to stop water going in, why is it an issue?I don't mean to sound confrontational, I really do want to know what the issue is.



Because normal people don't go around drilling holes in other peoples property.
mutley111/02/2020 17:29

i don't think it is pedantic to remove that cable as it looks ridiculous …i don't think it is pedantic to remove that cable as it looks ridiculous if nothing else.


How is "it looks ridiculous" a reason to infringe on the tenant's right to exclusivity and "right to enjoy"?
m1keyp1key11/02/2020 17:37

Because normal people don't go around drilling holes in other peoples …Because normal people don't go around drilling holes in other peoples property.


or even in their own properties! when have seen anyone drill a hole in their own window frame to pass an extension cable through?
m1keyp1key11/02/2020 17:37

Because normal people don't go around drilling holes in other peoples …Because normal people don't go around drilling holes in other peoples property.


During the tenancy it is considered their own property is it not? And do you mean to tell me you have never drilled a hole in any property you have owned?
MadeDixonsCry11/02/2020 17:38

How is "it looks ridiculous" a reason to infringe on the tenant's right to …How is "it looks ridiculous" a reason to infringe on the tenant's right to exclusivity and "right to enjoy"?




Not sure tenants have the right to enjoy vandalism.
m1keyp1key11/02/2020 17:37

Because normal people don't go around drilling holes in other peoples …Because normal people don't go around drilling holes in other peoples property.


nor pass standard flex cable (i.e. not armoured) externally before getting to the other health and safety concerns.
MadeDixonsCry11/02/2020 17:39

During the tenancy it is considered their own property is it not? And do …During the tenancy it is considered their own property is it not? And do you mean to tell me you have never drilled a hole in any property you have owned?



If that's the case then they should be leaving it in the same state. So mutley should be getting a new window frame paid for by them.

A window frame isn't supposed to be a lump of swiss cheese.
m1keyp1key11/02/2020 17:39

Not sure tenants have the right to enjoy vandalism.


if you can prove what they did was technically vandalism then I would agree with you, but as far as I am aware, during the tenancy they can treat it as their own as long as it is being maintained properly, and in my limited experience, as long as silicon is around it there is no issue. What is the issue? Help me see.
m1keyp1key11/02/2020 17:41

If that's the case then they should be leaving it in the same state. So …If that's the case then they should be leaving it in the same state. So mutley should be getting a new window frame paid for by them. A window frame isn't supposed to be a lump of swiss cheese.


I agree, but as I said, only when the keys are handed back, or else the repair fee gets taken from the deposit. Do we agree?
Where's the socket anyway? Must be dangling down the wall or something.

Must be great when it rains
Edited by: "m1keyp1key" 11th Feb
Bertz9911/02/2020 17:40

nor pass standard flex cable (i.e. not armoured) externally before getting …nor pass standard flex cable (i.e. not armoured) externally before getting to the other health and safety concerns.



Yep, we've no idea what they are using it for. If they use it for gardening tools and they cut through the cable there's going to be some trouble.
Words simply fail me.

Just read some of your other threads, and I would be more concerned at the electrics etc., than a drilled hole in your window. You seem to be more emotional and 'passionate' about this.
What do you think is put around the window externally to seal it.....silicone sealant so a good dollop of that should suffice.
OP have you got your legal team on to this quite serious matter.

I wouldn't let the father any where near the window. Put the job out to tender with an appropriate number of window specialists


You should consider an eviction notice otherwise it will just be the thin edge of the wedge and you can expect more of the same when they vacate.
Edited by: "OllieSt" 11th Feb
In all seriousness you have to wonder what other shortcuts these tennants have done.
MadeDixonsCry11/02/2020 17:41

if you can prove what they did was technically vandalism then I would …if you can prove what they did was technically vandalism then I would agree with you, but as far as I am aware, during the tenancy they can treat it as their own as long as it is being maintained properly, and in my limited experience, as long as silicon is around it there is no issue. What is the issue? Help me see.


A tenant can’t treat the property as their own, even if they consider it an improvement they have to get the permission of the landlord before changing anything, for example painting and decorating, installing shelves or even banging nails in a wall to hang pictures.
The tenant shouldn’t have drilled the hole in the window frame, however if they used silicon to fill the holes back up, I would accept that as a repair.
m1keyp1key11/02/2020 17:52

In all seriousness you have to wonder what other shortcuts these tennants …In all seriousness you have to wonder what other shortcuts these tennants have done.


I have to agree here. Just do a landlord inspection and write up everything you take issue with, write them down here, and we will tell you whether you need to chill out or send an eviction notice.
mutley111/02/2020 17:34

it's an external repair so the material has to be good enough for external …it's an external repair so the material has to be good enough for external use as it has to withstand freezing temperatures and wet weather condition.the putty is for internal use so i don't think that would be appropriate. silicone for external use would probably work but you would see the repair as that won't be invisible.


You're the expert.

Manufacturers website - Milliput products are resistant to frost, heat, solvents and most fuels. Milliput will set underwater and is heat resistant up to 130oC
mutley111/02/2020 17:34

it's an external repair so the material has to be good enough for external …it's an external repair so the material has to be good enough for external use as it has to withstand freezing temperatures and wet weather condition.the putty is for internal use so i don't think that would be appropriate. silicone for external use would probably work but you would see the repair as that won't be invisible.



Whatever repair you do it will always be visible to some extent. Unless of course you replace the whole frame. Just use white silicon sealant on the inside & external white frame filler on the outside & smooth it off with a damp filler knife. Cost would be less than £10.
Toptrumpet11/02/2020 17:54

A tenant can’t treat the property as their own, even if they consider it a …A tenant can’t treat the property as their own, even if they consider it an improvement they have to get the permission of the landlord before changing anything, for example painting and decorating, installing shelves or even banging nails in a wall to hang pictures. The tenant shouldn’t have drilled the hole in the window frame, however if they used silicon to fill the holes back up, I would accept that as a repair.


while you may be right, if they do things but leave the property at the end of the tenancy as they found it (or have repair fees taken out of deposit) does it really matter?

If it does matter to OP then shouldn't they just send an eviction notice (obvs follow the right route) and be done with it?
OP

Have you considered the implications of the safety of the tenants in your property. Again perhaps you should speak with your legal team because you might find that you could fall foul of regulations now that you are aware of this issue. I would suggest you put in writing that you insist that this cable is removed immediately to cover yourself in the event of any accident.
Edited by: "OllieSt" 11th Feb
MadeDixonsCry11/02/2020 17:38

How is "it looks ridiculous" a reason to infringe on the tenant's right to …How is "it looks ridiculous" a reason to infringe on the tenant's right to exclusivity and "right to enjoy"?


Could I knock some walls down to make the living room & kitchen open planned? All the benefit of the right to enjoy? Eh, NO! It's not your property but as a courtesy should be asking the landlords permission even if it's not under the tenancy agreement. It's not law but you have a duty of care not to damage ones property.

A new window frame should be invoiced against the tenant.

Same principle, lease car is not your property so can I change the specs of the vehicle during under contractual agreement. What do you think? I say NO!
veedubjai11/02/2020 18:14

Could I knock some walls down to make the living room & kitchen open …Could I knock some walls down to make the living room & kitchen open planned? All the benefit of the right to enjoy? Eh, NO! It's not your property but as a courtesy should be asking the landlords permission even if it's not under the tenancy agreement. It's not law but you have a duty of care not to damage ones property.A new window frame should be invoiced against the tenant.Same principle, lease car is not your property so can I change the specs of the vehicle during under contractual agreement. What do you think? I say NO!


as long as you put it back the way you found it, what's the problem? (obviously you can't put walls back up the way you knocked them down because you could be knocking down a supporting wall but we are talking about replacing a door here so don't be silly).
m1keyp1key11/02/2020 17:44

Where's the socket anyway? Must be dangling down the wall or …Where's the socket anyway? Must be dangling down the wall or something.Must be great when it rains


they have built a canopy outside the window so the extension socket is outside under the canopy.
OllieSt11/02/2020 18:04

OP Have you consider the implications of the safety of the tenants in your …OP Have you consider the implications of the safety of the tenants in your property. Again perhaps you should speak with your legal team because you might find that you could fall foul of regulations now that you are aware of this issue. I would suggest you put in writing that you insist that this cable is removed immediately to cover yourself in the event of any accident.


If it is the same property as the night storage heaters then I would 100% agree with you.

I have tenants and they are fantastic, so I follow 2 rules, let them treat it as their home and secondly make sure I rectify any issues as quickly as possible. I don't do periodic inspections and they have paid every month on time, are fantastic to their neighbours and been there over 6 years.
I wonder how long they would stay there if I kicked off about a hole in a window which looking at the photos is old and in need of resealing on the inside, those cracks look awful.
OllieSt11/02/2020 18:04

OP Have you consider the implications of the safety of the tenants in your …OP Have you consider the implications of the safety of the tenants in your property. Again perhaps you should speak with your legal team because you might find that you could fall foul of regulations now that you are aware of this issue. I would suggest you put in writing that you insist that this cable is removed immediately to cover yourself in the event of any accident.


i have already told them this is not safe and that it will breach my building insurance as a minimum. they are going to remove the extension cable and repair the window frame but i want to know if what they are going to do with it will be a suitable repair as they could just stuff toilet paper in the hole and claim that is repaired!
veedubjai11/02/2020 18:14

A new window frame should be invoiced against the tenant.


There is no way you would get away with that in court. Unless of course the tenants didnt turn up to court & you won by default. New for old doesn't exist in law unless stipulated in a contract.

However, if you want to run a strip of UPVC across the whole length of the bottom of the frame (inside & outside) & use solvent then I am sure you would get away with that.
Willy_Wonka11/02/2020 18:22

There is no way you would get away with that in court. Unless of course …There is no way you would get away with that in court. Unless of course the tenants didnt turn up to court & you won by default. New for old doesn't exist in law unless stipulated in a contract. However, if you want to run a strip of UPVC across the whole length of the bottom of the frame (inside & outside) & use solvent then I am sure you would get away with that.


I think the poster was being a little bit sarcastic....well I did giggle.
TGKW11/02/2020 18:23

I think the poster was being a little bit sarcastic....well I did giggle.



I did wonder
MadeDixonsCry11/02/2020 18:16

as long as you put it back the way you found it, what's the problem? …as long as you put it back the way you found it, what's the problem? (obviously you can't put walls back up the way you knocked them down because you could be knocking down a supporting wall but we are talking about replacing a door here so don't be silly).


because you need building regulations approval and sign off if you want to demolish walls inside a property, whether it is yours or not. you could bring the whole house down if you remove a load bearing wall. tenancy contracts also prohibits tenants changing anything structurally to the property as the landlord doesn't want to rent out a 3 bedroom property to find that the tenants have converted it to a 6 bedroom hostel!
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