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Posted 4th Dec 2021
Has anyone had any (recent) experience of returning electricals to John Lewis without a receipt?

Item is question is brand new sealed Apple Watch, bought from John Lewis, but no receipt. Looking to exchange for a different model and pay the difference (if any).

Thanks!
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valueadd10104/12/2021 19:34

Unfortunately not, was paid cash as well not card. 😬😩


No receipt

Paid cash

Not looking good...
35 Comments
  1. Avatar
    Did you use your myjohnlewis card? Receipts are saved on there under "kitchen drawer"
  2. Avatar
    Author
    andypops8804/12/2021 19:33

    Did you use your myjohnlewis card? Receipts are saved on there under …Did you use your myjohnlewis card? Receipts are saved on there under "kitchen drawer"


    Unfortunately not, was paid cash as well not card. 😬😩
  3. Avatar
    valueadd10104/12/2021 19:34

    Unfortunately not, was paid cash as well not card. 😬😩


    Not been Instore recently but they won’t have taken your email address as reference would they? I know some big chains do so they maybe able to locate that way?
  4. Avatar
    valueadd10104/12/2021 19:34

    Unfortunately not, was paid cash as well not card. 😬😩


    No receipt

    Paid cash

    Not looking good...
  5. Avatar
    Author
    sohailh198404/12/2021 19:36

    Not been Instore recently but they won’t have taken your email address as r …Not been Instore recently but they won’t have taken your email address as reference would they? I know some big chains do so they maybe able to locate that way?


    I don’t think so

    Gollywood04/12/2021 19:41

    No receiptPaid cashNot looking good...


    I remember years ago I exchanged something no receipt, but it was a Lego set at £20 not a watch at £300…

    Unsure if it’s a policy or just got lucky?
    Edited by: "valueadd101" 4th Dec
  6. Avatar
    Only other thing, anything on the packaging have a JL reference at all? That could always help..
  7. Avatar
    Maybe ask them to check cctv or if you know the exact time & date if they’ll check till receipts

    But they probably won’t do either so I think you’ve had it op
    Edited by: "PennyTrader" 4th Dec
  8. Avatar
    PennyTrader04/12/2021 19:58

    Maybe ask them to check cctv - other then that I think you’ve had it op


    they won't have time to check cctv for the OP!
  9. Avatar
    Daft question but why no receipt as that’s your guarantee ?
  10. Avatar
    PennyTrader04/12/2021 19:58

    Maybe ask them to check cctv or if you know the exact time & date if …Maybe ask them to check cctv or if you know the exact time & date if they’ll check till receipts But they probably won’t do either so I think you’ve had it op



    mutley104/12/2021 20:01

    they won't have time to check cctv for the OP!


    OP can request copy of any commercial CCTV that has captured their image by submitting a Subject Access Request.
    Vague recollection of commercial CCTV being retained for minimum (mandatory?) 30days this purpose.
    "Too busy" is not a valid response to a legitimate SAR for data (recent CCTV) where the person making the request can state date, time, (exact) location, personal description, etc.
    That request alone may have impact on JL return/upgrade flexibility.

    ico.org.uk/for…ss/

    ico.org.uk/for…tv/
  11. Avatar
    AndyRoyd04/12/2021 20:20

    OP can request copy of any commercial CCTV that has captured their image …OP can request copy of any commercial CCTV that has captured their image by submitting a Subject Access Request. Vague recollection of commercial CCTV being retained for minimum (mandatory?) 30days this purpose. "Too busy" is not a valid response to a legitimate SAR for data (recent CCTV) where the person making the request can state date, time, (exact) location, personal description, etc.That request alone may have impact on JL return/upgrade flexibility.https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/individual-rights/right-of-access/https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection-1998/encryption/scenarios/cctv/


    good luck with that!
  12. Avatar
    ndyanem04/12/2021 20:19

    Daft question but why no receipt as that’s your guarantee ?


    i can only imagine the OP has lost the receipt or it was a gift.

    OP - JL can't give you an exchange as there is no proof that it was bought at their store. asking for CCTV footage as someone had suggested won't help as this won't be retailers policy on refunds and exchanges, watching CCTV of purchases!

    without a receipt, it could be a fake, stolen goods so they won't be able to do anything for you. for a low cost item like the lego set someone had said earlier, then they may do so as a gesture of goodwill, but for an expensive tech item like this, they won't be able to exchange or refund without a receipt.
  13. Avatar
    mutley104/12/2021 20:29

    i can only imagine the OP has lost the receipt or it was a gift.OP - JL …i can only imagine the OP has lost the receipt or it was a gift.OP - JL can't give you an exchange as there is no proof that it was bought at their store. asking for CCTV footage as someone had suggested won't help as this won't be retailers policy on refunds and exchanges, watching CCTV of purchases!without a receipt, it could be a fake, stolen goods so they won't be able to do anything for you. for a low cost item like the lego set someone had said earlier, then they may do so as a gesture of goodwill, but for an expensive tech item like this, they won't be able to exchange or refund without a receipt.


    Best of trading it in at apple and doing it that way then maybe or trading it in at another retailer like cex
    Edited by: "ndyanem" 4th Dec
  14. Avatar
    mutley104/12/2021 20:29

    i can only imagine the OP has lost the receipt or it was a gift.OP - JL …i can only imagine the OP has lost the receipt or it was a gift.OP - JL can't give you an exchange as there is no proof that it was bought at their store. asking for CCTV footage as someone had suggested won't help as this won't be retailers policy on refunds and exchanges, watching CCTV of purchases!without a receipt, it could be a fake, stolen goods so they won't be able to do anything for you. for a low cost item like the lego set someone had said earlier, then they may do so as a gesture of goodwill, but for an expensive tech item like this, they won't be able to exchange or refund without a receipt.


    Consumers do not need receipts to prove a purchase, even for a cash sale; just a corporate-branded bag may be sufficient in some circumstances.
    If OP is confident CCTV was covering the purchase and the transaction was recent, it is unlikely that in the context of a upgrade that JL would cite "manifestly excessive" to escape the SAR obligation - and it is an obligation - especially if the trader is otherwise seen to be attempting to remove the consumer's access to the trader's future CRA 2015 obligations i.e. actively attempting to cause the consumer detriment.

    If OP was not the original purchaser and/or the purchase was not recent then there is less option for flexibility from JL other than goodwill.
  15. Avatar
    Author
    Thanks for all the feedback, sounds like I either need to accept this model, or try and ask the person who bought it for me to look harder for the receipt.
  16. Avatar
    As somebody mentioned there so many brilliant fakes of Apple products now, not even the sealed box/packaging give them away and even if genuine the retailers are mindful they can be stolen products.

    Especially when it's a gift....a present.....I mean gifts of that outlay are few and far between. I'm not saying that gifts worth hundreds of pounds don't happen....but we're not talking a £12.99 watch from Sekonda here.

    And if you do as suggested and ask JL to *cough* trawl their CCTV to find somebody buying said product in order to satisfy a desire for a refund/exchange - WELL - that would send the alarm bells ringing even more!
    Edited by: "bemad" 4th Dec
  17. Avatar
    valueadd10104/12/2021 21:44

    Thanks for all the feedback, sounds like I either need to accept this …Thanks for all the feedback, sounds like I either need to accept this model, or try and ask the person who bought it for me to look harder for the receipt.


    My mother in law gave me an expensive jumper for Christmas. It was from m&s so it had the m&s price tag still intact. I took it to m&s and asked for a refund as although it was expensive, it was pretty ugly!

    The shop wouldn't give me a refund or even an exchange as they said they could not do anything without the receipt.

    My husband told his mum and she was fuming. Not at me, but at m&s as they should have given me a refund, but I guess for all they know, I could have shop lifted that from their shop, then gone back in to ask for a refund.
  18. Avatar
    AndyRoyd04/12/2021 20:39

    Consumers do not need receipts to prove a purchase, even for a cash sale; …Consumers do not need receipts to prove a purchase, even for a cash sale; just a corporate-branded bag may be sufficient in some circumstances.If OP is confident CCTV was covering the purchase and the transaction was recent, it is unlikely that in the context of a upgrade that JL would cite "manifestly excessive" to escape the SAR obligation - and it is an obligation - especially if the trader is otherwise seen to be attempting to remove the consumer's access to the trader's future CRA 2015 obligations i.e. actively attempting to cause the consumer detriment.If OP was not the original purchaser and/or the purchase was not recent then there is less option for flexibility from JL other than goodwill.


    Remember as well though that this is something that the op just wants to swap. nothing wrong with it. That would be down to goodwill at the best of times
  19. Avatar
    mas9904/12/2021 22:51

    Remember as well though that this is something that the op just wants to …Remember as well though that this is something that the op just wants to swap. nothing wrong with it. That would be down to goodwill at the best of times


    In the context of requesting SAR, just that request may promote some additional GoG beyond JLs usual 35(?) day in-storeunused returns policy.
  20. Avatar
    I usually scan my receipts to my phone and John Lewis refused to accept that for a repair after 9 months though once Manager arrived did allow, good luck!
  21. Avatar
    Retailers have to keep a copy of the receipt for 12 months. It can be reprinted directly on the epos/till system.

    The original purchaser can get a copy of it, or you possibly could if you know all the details and JL are allowed or willing?

    They would have taken down the name address and other details, unless the original purchaser declined?
  22. Avatar
    mutley104/12/2021 22:02

    My mother in law gave me an expensive jumper for Christmas. It was from …My mother in law gave me an expensive jumper for Christmas. It was from m&s so it had the m&s price tag still intact. I took it to m&s and asked for a refund as although it was expensive, it was pretty ugly!The shop wouldn't give me a refund or even an exchange as they said they could not do anything without the receipt.My husband told his mum and she was fuming. Not at me, but at m&s as they should have given me a refund, but I guess for all they know, I could have shop lifted that from their shop, then gone back in to ask for a refund.


    M&S has had a huge problem with shop lifting because of their store credit receipt system. Basically, any M&S item being returned without a receipt was refunded with a store credit note that could be used only in a M&S store for anything. It was an open secret that this was being abused and you could easily find these credit notes on sale on eBay and elsewhere for 10-12% off face value. M&S recently updated their till software and return policies to clamp down on this given that they were losing millions annually.
  23. Avatar
    bozo00705/12/2021 09:01

    M&S has had a huge problem with shop lifting because of their store credit …M&S has had a huge problem with shop lifting because of their store credit receipt system. Basically, any M&S item being returned without a receipt was refunded with a store credit note that could be used only in a M&S store for anything. It was an open secret that this was being abused and you could easily find these credit notes on sale on eBay and elsewhere for 10-12% off face value. M&S recently updated their till software and return policies to clamp down on this given that they were losing millions annually.


    m&s is like the forest gump of the retailer world. i am surprised they are still around to be honest as they are so dumb.
  24. Avatar
    Can JL not pull up the purchase if you give them an exact date and time, I’ve done this with Argos in the past where I’ve misplaced the receipt.

    I can also understand why JL may not want to help, my daughter used to work in JL Watford years ago during her studies and some of the stories truly are shocking.
  25. Avatar
    Difficulty will be proving it actually came from JL in the first place rather than any other store/vendor
  26. Avatar
    Bossworld05/12/2021 12:55

    Difficulty will be proving it actually came from JL in the first place …Difficulty will be proving it actually came from JL in the first place rather than any other store/vendor


    Exactly!

    And what's to stop somebody buying a perfect looking clone from China (inferior on the inside) and then taking back to John Lewis with the old "it's a present" routine to swap for a genuine model?

    Ditto a stolen item, an item bought cheaply brand new and sealed on ebay, an item won in a competition, an item bought from any of the hundreds of retailers that sell Apple products......

    Put yourself in the retailer's shoes and you see things differently........
  27. Avatar
    Author
    bemad05/12/2021 22:40

    Exactly!And what's to stop somebody buying a perfect looking clone from …Exactly!And what's to stop somebody buying a perfect looking clone from China (inferior on the inside) and then taking back to John Lewis with the old "it's a present" routine to swap for a genuine model?Ditto a stolen item, an item bought cheaply brand new and sealed on ebay, an item won in a competition, an item bought from any of the hundreds of retailers that sell Apple products......Put yourself in the retailer's shoes and you see things differently........


    I 100% understand the retailers position, but at the same time it would be easy enough to buy something, go back in pick one off the shelf and then use the receipt to return the one from the shelf. We’ve got to have some faith in humanity or you just turn into an old cynic!

    To put an end to it, the person who bought it has since found the receipt and we took it to our local JL this afternoon and was all sorted.
  28. Avatar
    bozo00705/12/2021 09:01

    M&S has had a huge problem with shop lifting because of their store credit …M&S has had a huge problem with shop lifting because of their store credit receipt system. Basically, any M&S item being returned without a receipt was refunded with a store credit note that could be used only in a M&S store for anything. It was an open secret that this was being abused and you could easily find these credit notes on sale on eBay and elsewhere for 10-12% off face value. M&S recently updated their till software and return policies to clamp down on this given that they were losing millions annually.


    There was a case a few years ago where a fraudster was caught doing the same at John Lewis.
  29. Avatar
    Just out of curiosity, won't the barcode scanned at the point of sale proved that it's genuine and came from JL?
  30. Avatar
    valueadd10105/12/2021 23:09

    I 100% understand the retailers position, but at the same time it would be …I 100% understand the retailers position, but at the same time it would be easy enough to buy something, go back in pick one off the shelf and then use the receipt to return the one from the shelf. We’ve got to have some faith in humanity or you just turn into an old cynic! To put an end to it, the person who bought it has since found the receipt and we took it to our local JL this afternoon and was all sorted.


    I'm glad it's sorted but when it comes to retail, if a retailer gets a name for having faith in humanity it becomes a soft touch to be exploited. That's what happened to Marks and Spencer who have had to get a grip of the avenues where they were being taken for a ride.

    Long gone are the days where they refunded without a receipt at a pre-sale price (yes, that USED to happen). Year on year they've got more punitive because - alas - they realise that if you provide a loophole there are thousands willing to jump through it.
  31. Avatar
    madoka_ayukawa06/12/2021 00:22

    Just out of curiosity, won't the barcode scanned at the point of sale …Just out of curiosity, won't the barcode scanned at the point of sale proved that it's genuine and came from JL?


    No it won't.

    Generally retailers log all stock items into their systems using a bar code either their own stock codes (sku) like Argos, or the actual manufacturers bar code. If you scan any item it will appear. It will say what it is and how much it is and how many are in stock. but won't show who bought it unless they do a search for previously sold items. But as I said above, they would need the original purchaser to give them the details.

    Most companies have some sort of computerised stock control now days to track all their stock items. It will be integrated into the epos. When they buy stock they log it into their ware house and ship it to customers or stores. The head office knows exactly how many of each item they have and where it is. Each time something is sold they know when the store epos transfers all stock and sales data to the back office system. That then uploads it's end of day details to head office. That is how they know what stock to send to stores.
  32. Avatar
    C0mm0d0re_K1d06/12/2021 01:13

    No it won't. Generally retailers log all stock items into their systems …No it won't. Generally retailers log all stock items into their systems using a bar code either their own stock codes (sku) like Argos, or the actual manufacturers bar code. If you scan any item it will appear. It will say what it is and how much it is and how many are in stock. but won't show who bought it unless they do a search for previously sold items. But as I said above, they would need the original purchaser to give them the details.Most companies have some sort of computerised stock control now days to track all their stock items. It will be integrated into the epos. When they buy stock they log it into their ware house and ship it to customers or stores. The head office knows exactly how many of each item they have and where it is. Each time something is sold they know when the store epos transfers all stock and sales data to the back office system. That then uploads it's end of day details to head office. That is how they know what stock to send to stores.


    Great post and one of the reasons it always makes me laugh when a misprice comes up on here and people cling to some romanticised idea that if 5000 people "only order one" there's a chance they'll sneak through. Companies live for data these days, and any form of upward trend in orders will be monitored.
  33. Avatar
    C0mm0d0re_K1d06/12/2021 01:13

    No it won't. Generally retailers log all stock items into their systems …No it won't. Generally retailers log all stock items into their systems using a bar code either their own stock codes (sku) like Argos, or the actual manufacturers bar code. If you scan any item it will appear. It will say what it is and how much it is and how many are in stock. but won't show who bought it unless they do a search for previously sold items. But as I said above, they would need the original purchaser to give them the details.Most companies have some sort of computerised stock control now days to track all their stock items. It will be integrated into the epos. When they buy stock they log it into their ware house and ship it to customers or stores. The head office knows exactly how many of each item they have and where it is. Each time something is sold they know when the store epos transfers all stock and sales data to the back office system. That then uploads it's end of day details to head office. That is how they know what stock to send to stores.


    I believe the poster assumed that JL scanned the barcode that is unique to that individual item (maybe the IMEI or SN if it's on an Apple box). Some retailers do this.
  34. Avatar
    Bossworld06/12/2021 11:14

    Great post and one of the reasons it always makes me laugh when a misprice …Great post and one of the reasons it always makes me laugh when a misprice comes up on here and people cling to some romanticised idea that if 5000 people "only order one" there's a chance they'll sneak through. Companies live for data these days, and any form of upward trend in orders will be monitored.


    The epos system uses a price file that generally gets updated everyday by a person or department at head office. It is then sent to the stores back office system, which uploads it to the actual till points. It's all networked together normally. This is the reason you get mispriced items or scanning errors. When there is a mistake or typo in the price file. They will obviously know when it happens. They sometimes don't bother to fix it, if it's a low cost item to them, and they can write it off or absorb it. Obviously high cost/value items will be fixed when someone notices.
  35. Avatar
    MadeDixonsCry06/12/2021 11:32

    I believe the poster assumed that JL scanned the barcode that is unique to …I believe the poster assumed that JL scanned the barcode that is unique to that individual item (maybe the IMEI or SN if it's on an Apple box). Some retailers do this.


    I wouldn't imagine any retailer would use a serial number or IMEI number as a stock code. They would usually use the existing manufacturers bar code or make up their own stock codes or some stock systems can generate them.

    The code would need to be the same for all items that are the same spec and colour. S/n and IMEI numbers are 1 off unique numbers. Whilst some retailers will log those for sale and warranty reasons not all do.
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