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    Returning a used car

    Hey everyone, i just bought a 2005 Renault clio mark 3 from a dealer. i thought it was a part ex that he was trying to get rid of, was priced reasonably but the boot lid had some of the clear coating cracking which is the reason for the reduced price. noticed a few things wrong with the car but were minor in relation to the car price such as needed a new rear wiper and the door lock mechanism was loose due to a missing bolt. Took the car for a test drive and it seemed to drive ok but this was the first time i had driven since passing my test. but upon getting the car a later inspection the next morning in clearer light showed:

    clutch has an extremely high bite point (less than 1cm from the top) meaning it needs a new clutch (not mentioned at the time by the seller)

    large gouge in the front passenger side sidewall of the tyre (done previous to the tyre being painted, so gouge was there before the tyre was painted by the dealer)

    massive hole in the plastic wheel arch (probably from when they were jet washing the car)

    cable hanging from its housing on the undercarriage of the car (i think it maybe could be the handbrake cable)

    The alloys all have the paint cracking in large chunks inside the spokes

    The cars history doesn't seem to match the story the dealer told me

    Plus when i went to the dealer he just gave me the keys didn't check if i even had a driving license and told me i didn't need to have dealer plates displayed although the car was shown on the dvla website as being in trade and untaxed.

    what do you think i should do?? i have a mechanic coming to look the car over tonight do you think i should return the car or get the problems fixed (i bought the car Saturday) and i have an uneasy feeling about the car and what they have told me, it has only been driven home and put on the drive. it cant really be driven anyway due to the clutch.

    28 Comments

    It's not as simple as just returning the car. You have to give them the opportunity to fix it within a reasonable time frame. Also, they may claim you had the opportunity to check the vehicle and it was to your satisfaction. I'd see what they say but I wouldn't hold much hope out for a straightforward refund mate sorry.

    Surely you looked over the car and drove it before buying?!

    So you can't use the Clutch as an excuse, Same for the cracking paint on the alloys, anything hanging off the car that was obvious should have been noticed by yourself aswell..

    However if it is a dealer and it is in a dangerous state they shouldn't have sold it and would need to put it right

    Original Poster

    momartin

    It's not as simple as just returning the car. You have to give them the … It's not as simple as just returning the car. You have to give them the opportunity to fix it within a reasonable time frame. Also, they may claim you had the opportunity to check the vehicle and it was to your satisfaction. I'd see what they say but I wouldn't hold much hope out for a straightforward refund mate sorry.



    “Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, this car should be of a satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described. it was described as being in very good condition and only had a mot a month ago, Im a new driver and to be honest i think i was really impatient and rushed into this.

    Honestly it sounds like you dropped the ball and shouldn't have been buying a car on your own in the first place.

    Wait and see what the mechanic says.

    All of the details you pointed out aside from the history should have been clearly visible when you looked at the car and if your unsure of the dealer or it's a private sale always do a HPI check for full background information.

    if it was a part ex than you have no chance. he will for sure have made you sign that you were purchasing as a trade sale ie no consumer rights.

    now than being the year and model of car i presume you have not spent much more than 600 on it, i would advise just keeping it and using it as is, the clutch will be a self adjusting, the position of the bite will adjust to how you drive it. until it starts slipping than just live with it.

    a cheap car like that i wouldnt worry about history, you have very little chance of being able to sell on so you may as well get your moneys worth for a year before you scrap it.

    just get your mechanic to run over it to ensure its safe to drive!

    next time go to a reputable dealer and ensure its not a trade sale.

    call the dealer see what they say

    HamanBasher

    if it was a part ex than you have no chance. he will for sure have made … if it was a part ex than you have no chance. he will for sure have made you sign that you were purchasing as a trade sale ie no consumer rights..



    no such thing, you have rights if its a consumer buying from a trader
    Edited by: "deanos" 10th Oct 2016

    None of the things you mentioned sound like they matter on a car that is over 10 years old and presumably very cheap.
    The fact that there are dents/scratches/flaking paint on the alloys etc is irrelevant.

    If you aren't an experienced driver how do you know the clutch isn't going to last? If it currently works then you've no case. (I presume they are cable operated on this car so might just be that the cable could do with adjustment).

    Sounds like buyers remorse rather than there actually being anything wrong with the car.
    You've bought it now. Unless there is something actually wrong with it that stops it working or there are real and significant issues with the history (like its been clocked or something) then tough.

    its a 2005 clio, its obviously been used by the student racers, the hole in the wheel arch liner is form oversize wheels fitted. the wire hanging underneath is probably form neon lights, and the rear paint job is probably where they removed the spoiler.

    it all really depends how much u paid for the car and maybe u can ask for exchange for something not French
    polo or yaris or may be Micra all can be found in 1000 range .
    if its a proper dealer he probably charged double the value but if its some Gumtree based bedroom part-time dealer u have no chance just get ur first year out of it n sell it for whatever u get

    Original Poster

    Hi everyone thanks for your replies, its a mk 3 clio so it has a hydraulic clutch pedal and i paid £800 for the car and the paint work is due to the clear coat cracking as it is also under the rear window so i dont think a spoiler has been attached although would look nice on this model. the dealer sells cars from £650 to £49000 price range, parkers value this car from £650 TO 12OO but i thought the price was ok because of the paintwork and it does have a few age related marks.

    Sorry to say but returning it will probably not be an option.

    At best I think the dealer may agree to change the car with something he has in stock (possibly with a cost to cover the difference). Be polite and say that you are disappointed with your purchase that too being your first car........just initiate a dialogue soon and see where it takes you. Good luck.

    jam1233

    “Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, this car should be of a satisfactory … “Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, this car should be of a satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described. it was described as being in very good condition and only had a mot a month ago, Im a new driver and to be honest i think i was really impatient and rushed into this.



    That's not the dealers fault though. All the faults you've outlined could have easily been picked up on first inspection of the vehicle. I've been in the position myself where I've needed to return a used car, but that was due to it flooding the first time it rained, not something that could have been picked up on a test drive / inspection. That was dragged right through the small claims court, and the result was that the dealer had to repair it at his cost, I still didn't get my refund (and I'm actually still driving the car now, 2 years later!). I think with the faults you've listed, you'd have an even harder time getting your money back.

    That said, as far as cars go, I learnt back then that there is no such thing as "sold as seen" - despite what many traders like to put on invoices/receipts, adverts etc.

    It certainly sounds like buyers remorse to me - you should never, ever hurry to buy a car. Take your time to check everything over, and then if you're not happy, walk away and find one that is right for you.
    Edited by: "miikeyblue" 10th Oct 2016

    Two simple words: buyer beware.

    HamanBasher

    if it was a part ex than you have no chance. he will for sure have made … if it was a part ex than you have no chance. he will for sure have made you sign that you were purchasing as a trade sale ie no consumer rights.now than being the year and model of car i presume you have not spent much more than 600 on it, i would advise just keeping it and using it as is, the clutch will be a self adjusting, the position of the bite will adjust to how you drive it. until it starts slipping than just live with it.a cheap car like that i wouldnt worry about history, you have very little chance of being able to sell on so you may as well get your moneys worth for a year before you scrap it.just get your mechanic to run over it to ensure its safe to drive!next time go to a reputable dealer and ensure its not a trade sale.



    Doesn't matter - regardless of what the dealer got him to sign, he still has rights. There's no such thing as "sold as seen" when it comes to used cars, despite what he may have been told at the time.

    miikeyblue

    Doesn't matter - regardless of what the dealer got him to sign, he still … Doesn't matter - regardless of what the dealer got him to sign, he still has rights. There's no such thing as "sold as seen" when it comes to used cars, despite what he may have been told at the time.



    yes there is, sorry mate. depends what you signed on sales invoice.

    HamanBasher

    if it was a part ex than you have no chance. he will for sure have made … if it was a part ex than you have no chance. he will for sure have made you sign that you were purchasing as a trade sale ie no consumer rights.now than being the year and model of car i presume you have not spent much more than 600 on it, i would advise just keeping it and using it as is, the clutch will be a self adjusting, the position of the bite will adjust to how you drive it. until it starts slipping than just live with it.a cheap car like that i wouldnt worry about history, you have very little chance of being able to sell on so you may as well get your moneys worth for a year before you scrap it.just get your mechanic to run over it to ensure its safe to drive!next time go to a reputable dealer and ensure its not a trade sale.

    The car had been advertised as "trade sale, no warranty given" and “sold a … The car had been advertised as "trade sale, no warranty given" and “sold as seen”. However, garages cannot use these statements to deny consumers their legal rights.

    When a consumer buys a car from a trader they should expect the car to … When a consumer buys a car from a trader they should expect the car to beof satisfactory quality (taking into account its age and mileage) meet any description they were given prior to purchase and be fit for the purpose If the second hand car does not meet these requirements, the consumer has the right to claim against the dealer for breach of contract.

    Disclaimers relating to faulty ormisdescribed goods, … Disclaimers relating to faulty ormisdescribed goods, unsatisfactoryservicesFor example, goods are sold as seen: we accept no liability for faults discovered after purchase.Claims will not be entertained for 'sale' goods.No liability is accepted for damage to decor caused during installation.Any business which sells goods or services to consumers has to accept certain contractualobligations. These are the consumer's 'statutory rights'. Goods must match the description given to them, be of satisfactory quality and fit for their purposes. Work should be carried out to a reasonable standard.Contract terms which deny consumers the right to full compensation where the supplier breaks these obligations are liable to beconsidered unfair. Terms which deny or restrict liability if goods prove to be defective are also prohibited by other legislation. They are void and unenforceable, so their use may be misleading and give rise to prosecution as an offence.



    As stated above, I've been right through the courts with it - I bought a used car from a dealer, he refused blankly to do anything about the faults that developed - there really is no such thing as sold as seen when buying from a dealer, regardless of what they get you to sign - sold as seen has no standing in UK law.

    tradingstandards.uk/ext…316

    About halfway down:



    And a bit further on...



    Not that I believe the OPs faults are deserving of a refund personally, it doesn't mean he has no right to try.

    Also take a look here: gov.uk/gov…pdf



    The only time "sold as seen" applies is when buying from a private seller.
    Edited by: "miikeyblue" 10th Oct 2016

    HamanBasher

    if it was a part ex than you have no chance. he will for sure have … if it was a part ex than you have no chance. he will for sure have made you sign that you were purchasing as a trade sale ie no consumer rights.now than being the year and model of car i presume you have not spent much more than 600 on it, i would advise just keeping it and using it as is, the clutch will be a self adjusting, the position of the bite will adjust to how you drive it. until it starts slipping than just live with it.a cheap car like that i wouldnt worry about history, you have very little chance of being able to sell on so you may as well get your moneys worth for a year before you scrap it.just get your mechanic to run over it to ensure its safe to drive!next time go to a reputable dealer and ensure its not a trade sale.

    The car had been advertised as "trade sale, no warranty given" and “sold … The car had been advertised as "trade sale, no warranty given" and “sold as seen”. However, garages cannot use these statements to deny consumers their legal rights.

    When a consumer buys a car from a trader they should expect the car to … When a consumer buys a car from a trader they should expect the car to beof satisfactory quality (taking into account its age and mileage) meet any description they were given prior to purchase and be fit for the purpose If the second hand car does not meet these requirements, the consumer has the right to claim against the dealer for breach of contract.

    Disclaimers relating to faulty ormisdescribed goods, … Disclaimers relating to faulty ormisdescribed goods, unsatisfactoryservicesFor example, goods are sold as seen: we accept no liability for faults discovered after purchase.Claims will not be entertained for 'sale' goods.No liability is accepted for damage to decor caused during installation.Any business which sells goods or services to consumers has to accept certain contractualobligations.These are the consumer's 'statutory rights'. Goods must match the description given to them, be of satisfactory quality and fit for their purposes. Work should be carried out to a reasonable standard.Contract terms which deny consumers the right to full compensation where the supplier breaks these obligations are liable to beconsidered unfair. Terms which deny or restrict liability if goods prove to be defective are also prohibited by other legislation. They are void and unenforceable, so their use may be misleading and give rise to prosecution as an offence.



    yes.

    however the dealer will have you sign that you are purchasing as a TRADER in a trade sale..
    therefore ALL your consumer rights go out the window with one signature.
    Edited by: "HamanBasher" 10th Oct 2016

    HamanBasher

    yes.however the dealer will have you sign that you are purchasing as a … yes.however the dealer will have you sign that you are purchasing as a trader in a trade sale..therefor ALL your consumer rights go out the window with one signature.



    Still incorrect - it doesn't matter what is written on the contract - if he bought the car as a consumer (which I believe in this case he is, and not a trader), the Consumer Rights Act 2015 still applies. You can't simply put "trade sale" on a receipt and expect that you'll have no comeback in the event that the item goes wrong.

    Regardless, you're simply speculating - none of us have seen the receipt that was signed.
    Edited by: "miikeyblue" 10th Oct 2016

    jam1233

    Hi everyone thanks for your replies, its a mk 3 clio so it has a … Hi everyone thanks for your replies, its a mk 3 clio so it has a hydraulic clutch pedal and i paid £800 for the car and the paint work is due to the clear coat cracking as it is also under the rear window so i dont think a spoiler has been attached although would look nice on this model. the dealer sells cars from £650 to £49000 price range, parkers value this car from £650 TO 12OO but i thought the price was ok because of the paintwork and it does have a few age related marks.


    For that kind of money your paying for the fact most of the parts work and it's got a long mot.
    Take out the dealers cut and your looking at peanuts, £500ish for something which cost about 20x that new.

    Its an 800 pound car. Everything you have mentioned as an issue sounds normal nothing you have said makes it sound like you were ripped off. The dealer will have made very little money on this car.

    Some comments in the thread about consumers rights etc are ridiculous the dealers selling second hand motors for this price cant be expected to repair every fault after you buy it as if that was the case there woukd be no cheap cars on the market as what would be the point

    From what you have said the free play needs adjusting on the clutch cabeling. This will give you the free play required and lower the bite point.

    Get a new tyre. £30-£40

    Jack the car up at the rear. Try turning the wheels with the handbrake on. If one side is not connected it will be easy to tell which side is the issue.

    In your situation I would say you are willing to pay for parts (£30-£40 for tyre and £15 for hand brake cable) if they are willing to adjust clutch cable, fit tyre and fit handbrake cable. Shows willing from both parties. Cost to you is minimal and his cash cost is zero just 20-30mins of their time.

    mas99

    None of the things you mentioned sound like they matter on a car that is … None of the things you mentioned sound like they matter on a car that is over 10 years old and presumably very cheap.The fact that there are dents/scratches/flaking paint on the alloys etc is irrelevant.If you aren't an experienced driver how do you know the clutch isn't going to last? If it currently works then you've no case. (I presume they are cable operated on this car so might just be that the cable could do with adjustment).Sounds like buyers remorse rather than there actually being anything wrong with the car. You've bought it now. Unless there is something actually wrong with it that stops it working or there are real and significant issues with the history (like its been clocked or something) then tough.



    ^^ Totally agree with this. Everything you mentioned you should have picked up on when you initially viewed the car. If it was dark and you couldn't see the body work, how is the dealer responsible for this? Same goes for the fact you didn't notice the clutch on your test drive.
    My initial thoughts are that you've got the car home and someone else has looked at it and put these thoughts in your head.
    Do you believe / know that the dealer has lied to you or mislead you in any way? If so, you might have a case dependant on what you signed. Of course, if you paid in cash and the vehicle was registered in trade, the dealer could even deny selling it to you if you have no invoice.
    If the dealer hasn't lied or mislead you, you can't get the hump about it and start quoting law, especially if you have no background in it. Just get on with driving a 'banger', which is basically what any car is when you buy it at a price that's close to its scrap value.

    people are humouring you.

    I have a four year old spaceship that has only been to Mars once by an elderly lady owner. It's a steal at £4,500.

    This is a lesson, try to learn from it. Don't waste any money trying to get back the money that you have already wasted.

    HamanBasher

    yes there is, sorry mate. depends what you signed on sales invoice.



    You're wrong. A dealer cannot sell a car to a member of the public without having to obey the law. It doesn't matter what it says on the invoice, that cannot override legislation.
    And writing 'trade sale' doesn't make it so.
    Edited by: "mas99" 11th Oct 2016

    If it's an hydraulic clutch then biting point won't really be that much of an indication of clutch wear, If it stops changing gear, starts slipping then that would be a clear sign, Maybe something like clutch cylinder but it might just be you?.

    You do have consumer rights but I doubt you'd get very far, It might be worth asking and they might be prepared to replace tyre etc.. but most of the things you've mentioned would have easily been spotted during you viewing and test driving.

    Also it's your responsibility to have a driving license, they don't have to ask for proof etc.. They should have provided trade plates, If you were stopped by the law you could have been done for having no insurance, tax or mot etc.. you are responsible to make sure the car you are driving is road legal.!.



    Edited by: ".MUFC." 11th Oct 2016
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