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RM Special Delivery says delivered and is signed for but receiver says they haven't help!

33
Found 19th Jun 2012
Hi guys,

Wondering if you can help. Long story short, I sold a mobile phone (worth around £450) via Amazon Marketplace. The item was sold for and got paid for all ok.

I sent the item out via Royalmail Special Delivery to ensure that a) item is delivered the next working day b) item is fully trackable and c) item is fully insured to the value.

I forgot to upload the tracking number straightaway but got a chance to do so this evening so i did this accordingly.
Literally minutes later I get an email back from the buyer saying that they have not received the item, to sort it out ASAP and that it is not there signature.

The item has been signed for and a full signature (although it looks like a squiggle) is uploaded when the tracking number is entered. However the buyer is adamant that he hasn't received the item despite the tracking information.

I've confirmed the postal address and they've verified that its correct. I said I will contact Royalmail and I know that they are just going to say its delivered and wash their hands with it. I obviously can't tell whether its a buyer issue or a Royalmail issue.

Please advise on what can be done as i don't want to lose the money or the item.
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I'd pop a message along to the buyer saying that you will check with royal mail and if the phone has been lost or misdelivered I would have it reported ass tolen and barred by the network. As above you won't (or shouldn't ) lose any money but you are dependant on the buyer replying to royal mail's letter, many times I have come across some people do not do this especially when they have been refunded their money themselves.
Edited by: "simplyjimbo" 19th Jun 2012
THAT IS NOT I REPEAT A LONG STORY SHORT
They must print their name and It can not be delivered to another address .Royal mail is at fault go to customer services and complain
churchill

THAT IS NOT I REPEAT A LONG STORY SHORT



I would love the long version. I've got a cuppa and packet of biscuits ready.
although the seller is probably lying, its possible that the person delivering opened the package took the phone and signed himself, with a squiggle.

Either way, its very unlikely that you will lose any money
churchill

THAT IS NOT I REPEAT A LONG STORY SHORT



I could write over an A4 page with full details on the emails already exchanged e.t.c.
simplyjimbo

I'd pop a message along to the buyer saying that you will check with … I'd pop a message along to the buyer saying that you will check with royal mail and if the phone has been lost or misdelivered I would have it reported ass tolen and barred by the network. As above you won't (or shouldn't ) lose any money but you are dependant on the buyer replying to royal mail's letter, many times I have come across some people do not do this especially when they have been refunded their money themselves.



Thanks. I never thought of that. I can get it blocked so i will mention that once i've spoken to Royalmail tomorrow. The buyer is basically saying its a present and they want it ASAP and to sort it out ASAP but I know Royalmail will take some time to investigate. Not sure how that will go down and if Amazon will intervene if the buyer takes it up with them and they refund him before its settled with RM - thats what i'm worried about.
DestinyCalls815

although the seller is probably lying, its possible that the person … although the seller is probably lying, its possible that the person delivering opened the package took the phone and signed himself, with a squiggle. Either way, its very unlikely that you will lose any money



Yes, thats exactly what i'm thinking - the buyer is just trying to pull a fast one!

However, a friend had a similar situation with Parcelforce - a parcel signed for as delivered when it wasn't. Parcelforce wouldn't refund or compensate after various fights and they just had to take the hit. That was only a £50 item. This is £450. Thats whats scaring me at the mo as RM and Parcelforce are virtually the same aren't they?
Product(s) dispatched with signature confirmation - tracking shows delivery, but buyer claims item not received: If the name on the signature confirmation matches the buyers, the A-to-z Guarantee team will deny the claim. If signature confirmation does not match, the A-to-z Guarantee team will deny the claim and ask the buyer to follow-up with the individual that signed for the package. Guarantee claims for packages that are signed for by a freight forwarder or an agent of the buyer (e.g. receptionist, family member) will be denied. However, if an investigation determines that the customer did not receive the order due to a shipping error beyond his or her control, the seller may be held liable. We anticipate that this would be a very rare occurrence

If Amazon are asked to intervene it should go in your favour but it may take time and they could ringfence the funds like Paypal do.Whatever you do do not be bullied into anything outside of Amazon this could go against you. Probably the best thing would be for your buyer to start a dispute and you will aid and comply with any requests Amazon make in their investigations.

Edited by: "newbie1001" 19th Jun 2012
This is what i would do.

1. Tell the buyer you will get the handset blocked today (give the buyer time to reply first)

2. If hes still sure he hasnt got it then block the phone ASAP.

3. Call RM and file a complaint and demand an investigation.

4. Contact amazon and explain whats happened.
I have a feeling when you mention blocking the handset it'll magically appear, lol. Keep us updated hun.
J4GG4

This is what i would do.1. Tell the buyer you will get the handset … This is what i would do.1. Tell the buyer you will get the handset blocked today (give the buyer time to reply first)2. If hes still sure he hasnt got it then block the phone ASAP.3. Call RM and file a complaint and demand an investigation.4. Contact amazon and explain whats happened.



Good advice.

To be even more sure that the buyer isn't pulling a fast one, I'd additionally tell them that I have reported it to the Police who are talking to telecoms services to isolate any signal from any use of the phone.

That might make them think twice if they've inserted their sim card and switched it on.
Royal Mail Special Delivery items are tracked at each point of their journey. I highly doubt the postie has nicked it as it would be an instant sackable offence.
Unlike recorded delivery, special delivery items can only be delivered to the intended's address or it gets carded for
Sorting office collection.  

Three things have happened here
1. Your buyer lives with others/family and someone else has signed for it and forgot to mention it
2. They signed for it themselves and are trying to pull a fast one which will hopefully get resolved when you mention about blocking the phone etc
3. Phone was nicked by postie (extremely unlikely but possibility nonetheless) 

If you call the number on the back of the SD receipt they should be able to give you a detailed breakdown of the journey of your package, who signed for it, what time, where etc.
churchill

THAT IS NOT I REPEAT A LONG STORY SHORT



How can your first comment be a repeat?
Firstly I apprceciate the input from other members. Most of the replies have been useful so thank you

I have contacted Royalmail and they've advised that they will get in touch with the local delivery office manager and i'll need to call back in 48 hours.

I contacted the buyer and said that i will get back to them once i hear back and should Royalmail not deliver or trace the whereabouts of the item then I will report the handset immediately to be blacklisted/barred and then we will take matters further. I also said that i'll genuinely do my best to help resolve this but they've got to understand that if its deemed lost or misdelivered then I can only refund once a claim goes through e.t.c. The buyer replied back saying they completely understand and appreciate the help but keep asking me when I will resolve by as its a present. Meanwhile, Amazon have also been contact by me and they said that they can see that the item has been delivered so its up to me what i'd like to do. They will only intervene if the buyer opens a A-Z claim. Even then If i've got evidence then they'lll certainly help me. Not sure if the guy is genuine or not but guess i've just got to wait until I hear Royalmail's outcome.
Edited by: "BM12" 20th Jun 2012
It could also be that it is at the delivery office, or the postie has signed for it and left it in a "safe place". Either way i hope it works out for you.
If they do open an A to Z claim you'll only have to provide the tracking number, which is showing the item as delivered.

Where I used to work the mail room was at the front of the building. Each day I'd walk in and there would be 5+ Special Delivery items sat there for anyone to take. The postman was too lazy to go round to each office individually so he just signed for them all himself and left them on the side. Kind of defeats the object of paying for Special Delivery. I guess something similar may have happened here.
Since the buyer has stated it's a present, all bets are off, and you have to refund immediately. Maybe.
Well the buyer has suddenly changed their tune and said that why would they have to wait when they've paid money for it and i should refund immediately as they've proven they haven't received it (exactly how?).

I am being nice about it and ringing 0845 numbers (which are costing me an arm and a leg) to get through to Royalmail.

They said if i don't refund then they'll report me to Amazon. I've spoken to Amazon and they said that they leave decisions for refunds completely at the sellers end and won't intervene. Only if a buyer opens a A-Z case would they intervene.

I don't have a problem refunding but i guess i shouldn't do so until RM come to a decision. At the end of the day, the buyer could be lying for all i know as someone has clearly signed for it.
do they live in a multi occupancy residence, could it be someone in there block who has signed gor it?
BM12

I am being nice about it and ringing 0845 numbers (which are costing me … I am being nice about it and ringing 0845 numbers (which are costing me an arm and a leg) to get through to Royalmail.



Use this if you have inclusive minutes

saynoto0870

Edited by: "mfc1986" 20th Jun 2012
you will be nuts to refund, Amazon have allready stated that they will more than likely side with you.... remember there is no guarantee that RM will admit fault, and will more than likely say item was sucessfully delivered...

you should only refund once royal mail pay out
DE4L3R

do they live in a multi occupancy residence, could it be someone in there … do they live in a multi occupancy residence, could it be someone in there block who has signed gor it?



Nope, its a house and a very residential area.
Just wanted to ask you guys - Royalmail are investigating with the local delivery office and will get back to me by Friday. If it is misdelivered or lost then a claim needs to be filed which can take upto 30 days according to the RM website. 30 days is a long time. Is it unreasonable to ask the buyer to wait until the outcome of the claim? I know its not going to go down well, but I feel that i should only pay when i'm paid back by RM.

I have never faced an issue like this so appreciate peoples advice. Only once an item got lost when I bought from Amazon directly. Amazon made me wait 15 days before deeming it lost. Therefore can i get away doing this?
Aeschylus

you will be nuts to refund, Amazon have allready stated that they will … you will be nuts to refund, Amazon have allready stated that they will more than likely side with you.... remember there is no guarantee that RM will admit fault, and will more than likely say item was sucessfully delivered...you should only refund once royal mail pay out



Thanks you just answered my question. I just don't want it to turn heated thats all and want to continue trading on Amazon. I think I have all the evidence I need - receipt, pictures of the package before leaving me, IMEI number of the item recorded digitally, and also a picture of the item showing the serial number next to the invoice (its standard stuff i always do when selling items). I've also kept hard copies and digital copies of the tracking information (including the signature) as proof.
in my experience RM will tell you parcel was sucessfully delivered, all they wil do is ask the postie if he delivered to the correct address (he will say yes, even though he will probably have no idea)

RM will say claim refused, you then appeal, RM complaints will say after investigation it was likely delivered, you complain to ombudsman, he says likely not delivered however no proof wither way, and will offer compensation, probably not the full amount...

Sorry that does not help you, but paying out before RM pays out will likely end up with you out of pocket, Amazon T+C's read as if they will side with you, so you are just going to have to upset your buyer
Aeschylus

in my experience RM will tell you parcel was sucessfully delivered, all … in my experience RM will tell you parcel was sucessfully delivered, all they wil do is ask the postie if he delivered to the correct address (he will say yes, even though he will probably have no idea)RM will say claim refused, you then appeal, RM complaints will say after investigation it was likely delivered, you complain to ombudsman, he says likely not delivered however no proof wither way, and will offer compensation, probably not the full amount...Sorry that does not help you, but paying out before RM pays out will likely end up with you out of pocket, Amazon T+C's read as if they will side with you, so you are just going to have to upset your buyer



No this helps alot - thank you!
As mentioned, never really had an issue like this so good to hear others thoughts on this. I'm going to wait 'til Friday and see what they say. Should they say that it was successfully delivered then i'll have to try and put an end to communications with the buyer and say that i cannot refund them as RM has confirmed delivery with the postie and they will need to take the matter up with Royalmail themselves if they feel that the item wasn't delivered.

Yeah Amazon's Ts+Cs and the response i got from their representative seems to give me the impression that as long as i have the evidence i will be fine. Even Amazon's representative has confirmed that the item appears delivered successfully to them and has put this in writing. I have kept the receipt and have all relevant email trails to prove comms with everyone so I think I will be ok.

Edited by: "BM12" 20th Jun 2012
BM12

Just wanted to ask you guys - Royalmail are investigating with the local … Just wanted to ask you guys - Royalmail are investigating with the local delivery office and will get back to me by Friday. If it is misdelivered or lost then a claim needs to be filed which can take upto 30 days according to the RM website. 30 days is a long time. Is it unreasonable to ask the buyer to wait until the outcome of the claim? I know its not going to go down well, but I feel that i should only pay when i'm paid back by RM. I have never faced an issue like this so appreciate peoples advice. Only once an item got lost when I bought from Amazon directly. Amazon made me wait 15 days before deeming it lost. Therefore can i get away doing this?



If RM confirm it wasn't delivered then I think you should refund immediately. I understand what you are saying, but if it hasn't been delivered then why should the buyer wait for a refund?
colinsunderland

If RM confirm it wasn't delivered then I think you should refund … If RM confirm it wasn't delivered then I think you should refund immediately. I understand what you are saying, but if it hasn't been delivered then why should the buyer wait for a refund?




No Royal Mail will say it has been delivered, as they have a POD what the OP has to do is prove the RM delivered to the wrong address, that is not easy to do, and can take many months, and will likely end up with them refusing to admit they made a mistake
Edited by: "Aeschylus" 20th Jun 2012
Royal mails epod system allows them to track the location and time a delivery was signed for at.

Basically if this gps co-ordinate lines up with the front door of the delivery address then they will say it has been delivered, which is fair to be honest (if you don't notice a big parcel force van outside your house and a posty robbing your delivery stood exactly outside your front door when your expecting a delivery then you probably have a case of the idiots),

But driver theft is very rare in RM, they are one of the few well paid staff, and don't know the value of items being delivered.
Aeschylus

No Royal Mail will say it has been delivered, as they have a POD what the … No Royal Mail will say it has been delivered, as they have a POD what the OP has to do is prove the RM delivered to the wrong address, that is not easy to do, and can take many months, and will likely end up with them refusing to admit they made a mistake



Which is why I said if.
Well i sent a reply to them saying that whilst I appreciate that this was a present, a delivery issue has occurred and I cannot under any circumstance, refund without allowing Royalmail to investigate as all the evidence suggests that the item was delivered. Everything has gone quiet after that (I used to get replies within minutes).

Interesting...
BM12

Should they say that it was successfully delivered then i'll have to try … Should they say that it was successfully delivered then i'll have to try and put an end to communications with the buyer and say that i cannot refund them as RM has confirmed delivery with the postie and they will need to take the matter up with Royalmail themselves if they feel that the item wasn't delivered.



The sender is the person who has the contract with RM, not the receiver. You should not ask or expect the receiver to take it up with the RM it is your responsibility to sort it out and refund the buyer.

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