Rotherham Rape Scandal: Court gives lifetime anonymity to 4 paedophiles

96 replies
Found 29th Oct 2016
dailymail.co.uk/new…tml

The Asian sex grooming scandal in Rotherham continues: Now a court has given lifetime anonymity to four men who preyed on a vulnerable girl for years. What IS going on?

A court order means the men involved in the latest case cannot be named. When abuse was at its height there were fears that taking to the Asian community in Rotherham (pictured) would disturb community cohesion and council staff and police were 'mindful' of being called racist

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This is 100% wrong. What message does it send to the victims of this horrendous crime? It doesn't matter what the ethnic background of the purpetrators is, they should be named and shamed.

Predikuesi

This is 100% wrong. What message does it send to the victims of this … This is 100% wrong. What message does it send to the victims of this horrendous crime? It doesn't matter what the ethnic background of the purpetrators is, they should be named and shamed.


100% agree. I expect the relevant authorities to get involved and reverse the decision.

Predikuesi

This is 100% wrong. What message does it send to the victims of this … This is 100% wrong. What message does it send to the victims of this horrendous crime? It doesn't matter what the ethnic background of the purpetrators is, they should be named and shamed.



From reading the story and local reports it appears as though the granting of anonymity was in part done to protect the identity of the girl. It seems a very complex case and details are lacking.

What we do know is that this girl is apparently the victim of an awful upbringing and that has left her vulnerable. In all these cases of child sex abuse I think we also need to question the role of the parents and social services because these kids are being failed right from the start apparently.

important to note this is a tiny minority of Asian men. just like predominantly old white men are caught with online paedophilia, not all old white men are to blame.lets not go for pitch forks!

Well it's obvious who is more important to the authorities and it isn't your children.

Navcity

important to note this is a tiny minority of Asian men. just like … important to note this is a tiny minority of Asian men. just like predominantly old white men are caught with online paedophilia, not all old white men are to blame.lets not go for pitch forks!



Hmmm passing around a white girl only isnt racist at all.

The prophet Muhammad married a girl of 6 and consummated their marriage at 9.

Let's not blame all Asian men though yeah, or Islam.

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

From reading the story and local reports it appears as though the … From reading the story and local reports it appears as though the granting of anonymity was in part done to protect the identity of the girl. It seems a very complex case and details are lacking.What we do know is that this girl is apparently the victim of an awful upbringing and that has left her vulnerable. In all these cases of child sex abuse I think we also need to question the role of the parents and social services because these kids are being failed right from the start apparently.



The girls can still be left unnamed though. I do not see the need to hide the names of the criminals. The blame for the actual crimes should not be put on anyone else. Wild pack animals will always stalk the most vulnerable before picking them off.
Edited by: "Predikuesi" 29th Oct 2016

Navcity

important to note this is a tiny minority of Asian men. just like … important to note this is a tiny minority of Asian men. just like predominantly old white men are caught with online paedophilia, not all old white men are to blame.lets not go for pitch forks!



It doesn't matter if only a minority of Asian men or majority white men are involved, there should be no place to hide for monsters like this.

Predikuesi

It doesn't matter if only a minority of Asian men or majority white men … It doesn't matter if only a minority of Asian men or majority white men are involved, there should be no place to hide for monsters like this.



It seems when you're a devout Christian like Cliff Richard it is ok to be named, but when you are Muslim and a minority the law protects you even after you have been found guilty if child raoe, unlike Cliff.

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

From reading the story and local reports it appears as though the … From reading the story and local reports it appears as though the granting of anonymity was in part done to protect the identity of the girl. It seems a very complex case and details are lacking.What we do know is that this girl is apparently the victim of an awful upbringing and that has left her vulnerable. In all these cases of child sex abuse I think we also need to question the role of the parents and social services because these kids are being failed right from the start apparently.



​just because someone has a bad upbringing should not give these beasts a right to abuse them. then have anonymity because it seems their ethnic background.

Predikuesi

The girls can still be left unnamed though. I do not see the need to hide … The girls can still be left unnamed though. I do not see the need to hide the names of the criminals. The blame for the actual crimes should not be put on anyone else. Wild pack animals will always stalk the most vulnerable before picking them off.



I don't disagree with you but without knowing the specifics of this case it's hard to know whether they're justified in doing this to protect her identity or not.

Also I'm not excusing the people who abuse vulnerable kids, but we have to ask whether there's anything we can do as a society and as parents to better protect children surely. These kids are vulnerable, well why is that?

The disclosure of defendant names are covered by The Contempt of Court Act 1981 which gives power to judges whereas the police uses Code D of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act. This is the difference and these laws apply to all.

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

I don't disagree with you but without knowing the specifics of this case … I don't disagree with you but without knowing the specifics of this case it's hard to know whether they're justified in doing this to protect her identity or not.Also I'm not excusing the people who abuse vulnerable kids, but we have to ask whether there's anything we can do as a society and as parents to better protect children surely. These kids are vulnerable, well why is that?



If one of your children is murdered do you blame society for the crime and seek to find a way to protect the criminal. How your children are brought up has nothing to do with the crime against them. How the child is reared is a separate issue and should be dealt with accordingly. Diverting blame is wrong in my opinion.

Predikuesi

If one of your children is murdered do you blame society for the crime … If one of your children is murdered do you blame society for the crime and seek to find a way to protect the criminal. How your children are brought up has nothing to do with the crime against them. How the child is reared is a separate issue and should be dealt with accordingly. Diverting blame is wrong in my opinion.



Actually we do that in a lot of instances. If a child is murdered by a person suffering mental issues then we might look at how we treat people like that. If it's terrorist related then we examine those issues.

Society should constantly reevaluate and examine itself. That's not excusing the people who commit these crimes but looking at all the factors present.

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

From reading the story and local reports it appears as though the … From reading the story and local reports it appears as though the granting of anonymity was in part done to protect the identity of the girl. It seems a very complex case and details are lacking.What we do know is that this girl is apparently the victim of an awful upbringing and that has left her vulnerable. In all these cases of child sex abuse I think we also need to question the role of the parents and social services because these kids are being failed right from the start apparently.


That's right, blame everyone else other than those responsible. Disgusting vile pieces of scum that need removing from this planet, most certainly don't need anonymity, they will be revealed eventually and hope justice is served anonymously.

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

Actually we do that in a lot of instances. If a child is murdered by a … Actually we do that in a lot of instances. If a child is murdered by a person suffering mental issues then we might look at how we treat people like that. If it's terrorist related then we examine those issues. Society should constantly reevaluate and examine itself. That's not excusing the people who commit these crimes but looking at all the factors present.



I understand your point, but that should not distract from the immediate crime. Hitler was responsible for murdering over 11 million people in the death camps, was the fact that society disrespected his failed attempts at being an artist and an architect a factor in his crime? Did Klara not look after him properly? Maybe, but he was to blame.
We must take into account that all these men collectively and knowingly entered into the crime against the girls. That is one if the worst of premeditated crimes. Secondly, the men continued to have no feeling towards the children they were abusing. Thirdly, factor in over 1,400 girls they used as sex slaves. This equates as NO EXCUSE.

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

Actually we do that in a lot of instances. If a child is murdered by a … Actually we do that in a lot of instances. If a child is murdered by a person suffering mental issues then we might look at how we treat people like that. If it's terrorist related then we examine those issues. Society should constantly reevaluate and examine itself. That's not excusing the people who commit these crimes but looking at all the factors present.




In other words you are trying to muddy the waters so that the emphasis isn't put on the vile perpetrators!

It really is pathetic that you can't see the problem lies with the mentality of these men and their culture.


Edited by: "Mark2111" 29th Oct 2016

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

Actually we do that in a lot of instances. If a child is murdered by a … Actually we do that in a lot of instances. If a child is murdered by a person suffering mental issues then we might look at how we treat people like that. If it's terrorist related then we examine those issues. Society should constantly reevaluate and examine itself. That's not excusing the people who commit these crimes but looking at all the factors present.



​if someone go's out and gets drunk then gets gang raped we don't question we name and shame even before a guilty verdict.

couldn't agree more. when all these cases were coming to court and still now you still see cars full of asians driving round trying to chat up young girls. I know that may be classed as racist but you see it everyday in parts of West Yorkshire and no doubt elsewhere. MP Ann Cryer said it years ago, people in Rotherham were telling police about it, they were called racist.

I just don't see how these men got the ruling in their favour. Surely we can grant the victim anonymity yet shame these men and the public should know who they are.

Mark2111

In other words you are trying to muddy the waters so that the emphasis … In other words you are trying to muddy the waters so that the emphasis isn't put on the vile perpetrators!It really is pathetic that you can't see the problem lies with the mentality of these men and their culture.


So what's the cultural issue of scores and white men when they commit the same crime?

The vast amount of stories I read about the type of crime involves white men yet I don't think it's white culture that's the issue.

Yet Asian men and suddenly its cultural.

Banned

EN1GMA

I just don't see how these men got the ruling in their favour. Surely we … I just don't see how these men got the ruling in their favour. Surely we can grant the victim anonymity yet shame these men and the public should know who they are.



As always we don't know the full details. Perhaps it would be impossible to keep the anonymity of the victim if the perpetrators of the crimes were named.
Edited by: "cchopps" 29th Oct 2016

Predikuesi

I understand your point, but that should not distract from the immediate … I understand your point, but that should not distract from the immediate crime. Hitler was responsible for murdering over 11 million people in the death camps, was the fact that society disrespected his failed attempts at being an artist and an architect a factor in his crime? Did Klara not look after him properly? Maybe, but he was to blame.We must take into account that all these men collectively and knowingly entered into the crime against the girls. That is one if the worst of premeditated crimes. Secondly, the men continued to have no feeling towards the children they were abusing. Thirdly, factor in over 1,400 girls they used as sex slaves. This equates as NO EXCUSE.



I absolutely see your points and the instances of abuse where there have been convictions have been utterly vile and indefensible. This one seems to have a lack of information which makes then granting of anonymity hard to judge.

To the wider point though I think we need to look at why these kids are vulnerable in the first place and the role that social services have to play.

As for Hitler, history classes absolutely examine the factors that enabled him to achieve power. That's absolutely valid as is examining all the factors in these abuse cases.

cchopps

As always we don't know the full details. Perhaps it would be impossible … As always we don't know the full details. Perhaps it would be impossible to keep the anonymity of the victim if the perpetrators of the crimes were named.



That notion opens the door to more abusers in the future. It's ok guys, we can rape as many as we want, and no one will know who we are!" If this decision stays as it is, then it will be used as a foundation to get other vile people off the hook. If you believe for one minute that the identity of the children is the reason why the men are not named, then that's sheer foolishness. Sorry, but I cannot sympathise with the purpetrators in any way. If you can, then you need to question your humanity.

Predikuesi

That notion opens the door to more abusers in the future. It's ok guys, … That notion opens the door to more abusers in the future. It's ok guys, we can rape as many as we want, and no one will know who we are!" If this decision stays as it is, then it will be used as a foundation to get other vile people off the hook. If you believe for one minute that the identity of the children is the reason why the men are not named, then that's sheer foolishness. Sorry, but I cannot sympathise with the purpetrators in any way. If you can, then you need to question your humanity.


Does not matter what you or I think but if the ruling of anonymity is because its to protect the victim, then that's complex and I'm sure the decision was not taken lightly.

Don't agree with the anonymity but again, if that's to protect the victim, then it must be a very sensitive case.

EN1GMA

Does not matter what you or I think but if the ruling of anonymity is … Does not matter what you or I think but if the ruling of anonymity is because its to protect the victim, then that's complex and I'm sure the decision was not taken lightly. Don't agree with the anonymity but again, if that's to protect the victim, then it must be a very sensitive case.



Thanks for that, but I was hoping cchopps would respond, as I have a question that needs answering.

well my view is hang them then you will have to spend all this money on them so people don't know who they are it makes me so angry if we went to their country and done something wrong we would have to pay for it so let them **** pay for it Hang em High is time to get our country back but I believe in karma what goes around comes around and I hope they get what's coming around

Navcity

important to note this is a tiny minority of Asian men. just like … important to note this is a tiny minority of Asian men. just like predominantly old white men are caught with online paedophilia, not all old white men are to blame.lets not go for pitch forks!


You must be new here. That's not how it works on hukd.

EN1GMA

So what's the cultural issue of scores and white men when they commit the … So what's the cultural issue of scores and white men when they commit the same crime? The vast amount of stories I read about the type of crime involves white men yet I don't think it's white culture that's the issue. Yet Asian men and suddenly its cultural.




I am referring to this specific case in Rotherham.

I think there's a lot of confusion about what facts are actually known about this case. I'd urge people to actually read into it before commenting, but the title of this thread is possibly inaccurate.

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

I absolutely see your points and the instances of abuse where there have … I absolutely see your points and the instances of abuse where there have been convictions have been utterly vile and indefensible. This one seems to have a lack of information which makes then granting of anonymity hard to judge. To the wider point though I think we need to look at why these kids are vulnerable in the first place and the role that social services have to play.As for Hitler, history classes absolutely examine the factors that enabled him to achieve power. That's absolutely valid as is examining all the factors in these abuse cases.


You are correct that we need to look at the other factors involved but it doesn't mean we should blame them for the vile acts of the crimes committed. Those that committed the acts are the ones to blame. They should perhaps play a bigger role in preventing these people from committing the indefensible and protecting them, the victims from them.
Edited by: ".MUFC." 29th Oct 2016

Banned

Predikuesi

That notion opens the door to more abusers in the future. It's ok guys, … That notion opens the door to more abusers in the future. It's ok guys, we can rape as many as we want, and no one will know who we are!" If this decision stays as it is, then it will be used as a foundation to get other vile people off the hook. If you believe for one minute that the identity of the children is the reason why the men are not named, then that's sheer foolishness. Sorry, but I cannot sympathise with the purpetrators in any way. If you can, then you need to question your humanity.



I have no sympathy with the perpetrators, and every sympathy with the victim.

My humanity requires no examination, rather your thought process.

I have a question that needs answering?

If the victim, who must be be damaged goods, was somehow immediately known as the victim due to the perpetrators being named, would justice have been further served in your eyes?

The courts and the police seem to be unable to work together on these cases. I would recommend an outside police force is introduced

cchopps

If the victim, who must be be damaged goods, was somehow immediately … If the victim, who must be be damaged goods, was somehow immediately known as the victim due to the perpetrators being named, would justice have been further served in your eyes?



Sorry I don't understand what you are on about here

I won't bother asking my question as you have appeared to preempted it.

There have been around 50 "localised grooming" trials involving groups and gangs since 1997, some 30 towns and cities have been afflicted. This is absolutely unprecedented in the history of this country, there should of course have been many, many more trials - but the scale of the epidemic has been suppressed. In Rotherham Operation Stovewood is shaping to be the biggest ever criminal investigation in British history - no less than 11000 lines of enquiry are being investigated.

In Telford and West Yorkshire there have been recent calls for investigations into the scale and reasons for "localised grooming" there. Telford may be as big or bigger than Rotherham. West Yorkshire obviously is - there have been recent gang convictions for offences committed in Keighley, Dewsbury and Halifax.

Have a look on the map where these areas are, there is a pattern.

Edited by: "airfix" 29th Oct 2016

rodders443

Hmmm passing around a white girl only isnt racist at all.The prophet … Hmmm passing around a white girl only isnt racist at all.The prophet Muhammad married a girl of 6 and consummated their marriage at 9. Let's not blame all Asian men though yeah, or Islam.



​european royalty and aristocracy married girls as young as 6 up until 18th century so what's your point. you're showing your rabid ignorance

Banned

Navcity

​european royalty and aristocracy married girls as young as 6 up until 1 … ​european royalty and aristocracy married girls as young as 6 up until 18th century so what's your point. you're showing your rabid ignorance



Are you sure that wasn't betrothing?

I'm still try to think why the would get anonymity. Other similar cases the sickos didn't get anonymity.

It can't be because the victim wants anonymity so these vile criminals get it too.

There must be a personal link between the victim and these criminals or something of that nature.

This is unprecedented to give criminals to the this type of crime anonymity s must be something very significant.

EN1GMA

I'm still try to think why the would get anonymity. Other similar cases … I'm still try to think why the would get anonymity. Other similar cases the sickos didn't get anonymity. It can't be because the victim wants anonymity so these vile criminals get it too. There must be a personal link between the victim and these criminals or something of that nature. This is unprecedented to give criminals to the this type of crime anonymity s must be something very significant.



If it had been the other way round, I mean had it been a Pakistani teen groomed by a group of white males I surmise the outcome would have been very different, with direct action by that community to mete out their own 'justice'.

airfix

If it had been the other way round, I mean had it been a Pakistani teen … If it had been the other way round, I mean had it been a Pakistani teen groomed by a group of white males I surmise the outcome would have been very different, with direct action by that community to mete out their own 'justice'.



​a friend of mines son (who is white) was beat up in the 90s for being the boyfriend of a classmate who was asian. the attackers used racist language throughout the attack. the police said there was not enough evidence for any charges as the attackers were all at home with their family's. at least it didn't go down as a racist attack on the figures for Dewsbury police.
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