Expired

Royal Mail Postage With Insurance

25
Found 19th Apr 2014
This has been bugging me for a while now.

My brother sent an item he sold via eBay through Royal Mails Insured service.
he paid for up to £200 cover and the item he sent was broken when it reached the seller.

The item he sent was a Lennox Snow White set and the seller provided pictures.
It was 2 single items, One was fine but the other was broken.
(It was of a mirror, and a stand with the evil queens face incase anyone wants to know the items)

Anyway, The buyer was happy to keep one of the items which wasn't broken but my brother had to refund her half of her payment as one of the items was broken.
He was more then happy to do this but as you can tell he wanted to reclaim half of the money via Royal Mails Insurance cover that he had paid for. Not the full £200 as only one item was broken.
So he was being fair with them.

He went through the whole process of sending a form off and waiting for a reply etc, then sent the receipt over to them with photos of the damaged item, and the eBay number so Royal Mail could check it out.
Letters went back and forth over about 4 months and they are adamant they will not refund my brother £100.

If thats the case then why offer an insurance premium that people can pay to protect their items through the incompetence of post men who batter peoples items.

The Snow White item was not in circulation anymore so it cannot be replaced, however what if this was someone sending a family member something fragile that meant a lot to them that may have been irreplaceable both by item/value/personal attachment?

I dont understand why they won't own up and pay out to my brother, He wants to just let it go because its him that is constantly sending letters with proof but this woman who is replying will not refund him anything.

If it was me, I would have claimed for the full £200 as it shouldn't have been damaged
(The photos he has sent to Royal Mail show the well padded box it was sent in, with loads of foam and bubble rap etc)

What are you opinions on this?
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25 Comments
You haven't given the reason why they are refusing payment so it's not possible to comment. There is no such thing as 'Insured' service. Royal Mail offers Special Delivery Guaranteed where compensation of up to £500 is included in the price IF you comply with the terms and conditions. Did your brother read and comply with the terms and conditions?
ceres

You haven't given the reason why they are refusing payment so it's not … You haven't given the reason why they are refusing payment so it's not possible to comment. There is no such thing as 'Insured' service. Royal Mail offers Special Delivery Guaranteed where compensation of up to £500 is included in the price IF you comply with the terms and conditions. Did your brother read and comply with the terms and conditions?



The reply was just a flat "We don't see where this falls under insurance"

It was a while back hence I'm only posting now as the letters back and forth took months.

Yes he paid more for insurance, and I don't see how that doesn't comply to their T&C's.
It even states on the website for Royal Mail that items are covered with the service he used, if he can provide a receipt (Check) Proof of how it was wrapped before sending (Check) Proof of the damage (Check) Proof of items value AND Proof of the sale on eBay (Check) and lastly a damage report from the recipient (Check).

How on earth can anybody fault this?

Its like me selling you something and saying "Its comes with a years warranty if it breaks"
Then when it breaks I just say "Sorry your not going to be refunded lulz"
From previous experience myself all carriers seem to have an opt out clause that they wont handle insurance claims for glass items - I had a built-in oven smashed by couriers and they refused to pay even though the van was full of the glass saying their terms dont allow glass items to be posted - 90% of the oven was metal but that doesnt count. As it was a fragile item they probably have an opt out clause somewhere it the terms and conditions.
googley2

From previous experience myself all carriers seem to have an opt out … From previous experience myself all carriers seem to have an opt out clause that they wont handle insurance claims for glass items - I had a built-in oven smashed by couriers and they refused to pay even though the van was full of the glass saying their terms dont allow glass items to be posted - 90% of the oven was metal but that doesnt count. As it was a fragile item they probably have an opt out clause somewhere it the terms and conditions.



Yeah maybe but it should be noted before they take more money for a more expensive service if they know prior to it being sent.

Thank you for your reply (Both of you).
Like I said it was my brothers item.
Sent before Christmas, I don't think he's going to take it further but at least I hope someone reading this will take note to avoid getting robbed of a shoddy service.

Oh well, Lesson Learnt.
joewall33

The reply was just a flat "We don't see where this falls under insurance"



See, it's just a tad unlikely that's what they said.

joewall33

It even states on the website for Royal Mail that items are covered with … It even states on the website for Royal Mail that items are covered with the service he used, if he can provide a receipt (Check) Proof of how it was wrapped before sending (Check) Proof of the damage (Check) Proof of items value AND Proof of the sale on eBay (Check) and lastly a damage report from the recipient (Check).How on earth can anybody fault this?



Easily, because that's your version of what you think the T&C say, not what they actually say.

The lesson that should be learned is to read the T&C and make sure that you do exactly what is required so that you're covered by the compensation scheme.

joewall33

Its like me selling you something and saying "Its comes with a years … Its like me selling you something and saying "Its comes with a years warranty if it breaks"Then when it breaks I just say "Sorry your not going to be refunded lulz"



It's not at all like that. The two situations are entirely different.
joewall33

The reply was just a flat "We don't see where this falls under insurance"

joewall33

It even states on the website for Royal Mail that items are covered with … It even states on the website for Royal Mail that items are covered with the service he used, if he can provide a receipt (Check) Proof of how it was wrapped before sending (Check) Proof of the damage (Check) Proof of items value AND Proof of the sale on eBay (Check) and lastly a damage report from the recipient (Check).How on earth can anybody fault this?

joewall33

Its like me selling you something and saying "Its comes with a years … Its like me selling you something and saying "Its comes with a years warranty if it breaks"Then when it breaks I just say "Sorry your not going to be refunded lulz"



lol Im guessing you work for Royal Mail.

I quoted the Terms and Conditions as when a letter was sent back to them I was with my brother when he wrote a letter out to them.
No I'm not ill informed, The T&C's are on the Royal Mail website, Google it.

Yes thats what was put in a letter, Longer worded but that was the resolution.

Yes it is exactly like that, Your telling me when you pay for insurance and it breaks in transit you CANT claim on that insurance.

Wow, you've actually spent time to talk down my question and throw out accusations of things you presume how it went.
If you really want me to justify myself, Im down my brothers on Tuesday, Ill upload pictures of the response and if your too lazy to google the T&C's Ill even link you to it with photos of proof of everything that was asked for.

What a moron!
lol "did we comply with the terms and conditions"

No mate, he paid for insurance up to the value of £200 then we decided to say to the clerk at the Post Office "Actually mate, feel free to play football with my parcel".
Royal Mail should be investigated by trading standards in my opinion.
Woe full service and when things go wrong they just do not want to know.
anjasola

Royal Mail should be investigated by trading standards in my opinion.Woe … Royal Mail should be investigated by trading standards in my opinion.Woe full service and when things go wrong they just do not want to know.



Thank you.

Even if someone wanted to give there adivce I would take it on board, that other guy was talking like he works for them and tried to manipulate the situation and what happened.
joewall33

The reply was just a flat "We don't see where this falls under … The reply was just a flat "We don't see where this falls under insurance"

joewall33

It even states on the website for Royal Mail that items are covered … It even states on the website for Royal Mail that items are covered with the service he used, if he can provide a receipt (Check) Proof of how it was wrapped before sending (Check) Proof of the damage (Check) Proof of items value AND Proof of the sale on eBay (Check) and lastly a damage report from the recipient (Check).How on earth can anybody fault this?

joewall33

Its like me selling you something and saying "Its comes with a years … Its like me selling you something and saying "Its comes with a years warranty if it breaks"Then when it breaks I just say "Sorry your not going to be refunded lulz"



Wow! Someone tries to help you and you insult them by calling them a moron!!! How thoughtful!

It does seem as you have not followed the RM terms and conditions as the matter can be escalated further if you are not happy with their response. I've googled it for you and provided the link so that I am not insulted. royalmail.com/per…int

Furthermore, was the item packaged in accordance with their T's & C's?
where a breakable item has not been packed in a strong container with enough packaging material to protect the item against pressure and knocks, and where the item has not been marked with the words “FRAGILE HANDLE WITH CARE” in capital letters on the cover or envelope above the address,

I agree with ceres's statement that you are only writing your version of events and what you want people to hear, not what has been said or the true facts. Insurance doesn't mean "they'll pay for anything" because you have cover for £200. Insuring my £2000 car for £20,000 doesn't mean they'll give me £20,000 because I left my keys in it!
Thanks Therapist.

And OP, just for the record, I do not and have never worked for the Royal Mail, Post Office or any associated company.

I'll leave you to your ranting now. If your brother is relying on you for advice in respect of his claim, it's going to be a spectacular fail.
The Therapist

Wow! Someone tries to help you and you insult them by calling them a … Wow! Someone tries to help you and you insult them by calling them a moron!!! How thoughtful!It does seem as you have not followed the RM terms and conditions as the matter can be escalated further if you are not happy with their response. I've googled it for you and provided the link so that I am not insulted. http://www.royalmail.com/personal/help-and-support/how-do-I-make-a-complaintFurthermore, was the item packaged in accordance with their T's & C's?where a breakable item has not been packed in a strong container with enough packaging material to protect the item against pressure and knocks, and where the item has not been marked with the words “FRAGILE HANDLE WITH CARE” in capital letters on the cover or envelope above the address,I agree with ceres's statement that you are only writing your version of events and what you want people to hear, not what has been said or the true facts. Insurance doesn't mean "they'll pay for anything" because you have cover for £200. Insuring my £2000 car for £20,000 doesn't mean they'll give me £20,000 because I left my keys in it!



Ok firstly, I have said any opinions are welcomed.
That other guy hasn't gave any to help the situation he has only tried to make assumptions and talk down what I am telling you all what happened.

Thanks for the link, I don't need it as I have used it when I was with my brother which we quoted word for word.
Please read my comments in full before again talking to road to not express an opinion but to talk down what I am telling you what happened.

I have said the letter was more in depth but that was the outcome.
Like I said it was months ago.
Yes everything on the T&C's page was done and ALL proof step by step was sent to them.
(So in other words, everything that has to be down in order for a claim to be made was met)

My brother also went via the resolutions team and the reply was from the same person- no joke.

I haven't said insurance will "pay for anything" my brother hasn't asked for £200- he has asked for £100 which the value of the item which was broken, since he paid for insurance when he sent the item.
Again- your trying to talk down what happened.
What is wrong with people? I've put all of the facts in the initial question.

What are you talking about with insuring your car for £20,000 and leaving your keys in it?
No, the same would be, you owning a £20,000 car and getting it delivered to your house from the dealer.
And when it turns up there is damage caused in transit.
My brother didn't leave his keys in this parcel.

Opinions are welcome, but at least give an insight not just talk down what I have said happened.

If someone posted a question "how do I report a policeman as he abused his power" would you also reply "are you sure your not lying"
ceres

Thanks Therapist.And OP, just for the record, I do not and have never … Thanks Therapist.And OP, just for the record, I do not and have never worked for the Royal Mail, Post Office or any associated company.I'll leave you to your ranting now. If your brother is relying on you for advice in respect of his claim, it's going to be a spectacular fail.



You should have saved the witty reply, I accepted to ignore your imput yesterday after the random disrespectful tripe you posted.
No rant at all, I seem to have attracted people having a bad day and who need to learn how to read.

My brother like mentioned 4 times is going to let it slip, my advice (by following the terms and conditions, then sending pictures of each thing the terms and conditions ask for in order with his receipt) didn't seem to suffice.
But hey, I guess that's because like you two seem to think "Insurance doesn't cover your item".

Happy Easter.
X)

X)
Edited by: "ceres" 20th Apr 2014
I was going to post yesterday but could not find the right document to support my theory

as has been said before - most carrier will not insure glass, including mirrors. but it would appear that RM do NOT implicitly exclude glass - so it would be reasonable to assume they do.

Having said that - whenever I have sent stuff by RMSD (which I assume was the service you OP used) then the PO normally ask what is in the package and it's value. If you, or your brother, had said a mirror is in the package and the PO did not warn you that it is not included in the insured value, then you have a point.

BUT - and here is the crux of the matter - was it adequately packed in accordance with the T&Cs and was it clearly labeled as fragile - again in accordance with T&Cs.

To be fair RM are notoriously difficult to work with and do have so many get out clauses - so you have to be ultra careful with the T&Cs

EliTom
maybe I can shed some light on this

facts you say - you used Royal Mail Insured Service for £200 value

The item sent was Lennox Snow White set - these are basically ceramic figures from what I see on eBay

if the insured value was only £200 then you could not have used Special Delivery as the minimum insured value is £500

So you or your brother must have used something like Express 24 or Express 48 which is basically a ParcelForce service - old RM Parcel Post with additional insurance

see here for T&Cs

parcelforce.com/hel…ion

and to summarise -

Please be aware that goods are excluded from compensation as follows:

Fragile*
Ceramics or composites wholly or partially made of china and/or porcelain
Glassware - items wholly or partially made of glass or containing glass, e.g bottles, picture frames, TV's and laptops that contain glass

* In the case of these fragile items, we will pay refunds in the case of delay and compensation for loss, but not damage to the items.

so if you want further advice please state clearly what RM service was used - then those who have the facts can advice you further

EliTom
Edited by: "elitom" 20th Apr 2014
elitom

maybe I can shed some light on this facts you say - you used Royal Mail … maybe I can shed some light on this facts you say - you used Royal Mail Insured Service for £200 valueThe item sent was Lennox Snow White set - these are basically ceramic figures from what I see on eBayif the insured value was only £200 then you could not have used Special Delivery as the minimum insured value is £500So you or your brother must have used something like Express 24 or Express 48 which is basically a ParcelForce service - old RM Parcel Post with additional insurancesee here for T&Cshttp://www.parcelforce.com/help-information/compensation-refunds-and-claims/items-we-exclude-compensationand to summarise - Please be aware that goods are excluded from compensation as follows:Fragile*Ceramics or composites wholly or partially made of china and/or porcelainGlassware - items wholly or partially made of glass or containing glass, e.g bottles, picture frames, TV's and laptops that contain glass* In the case of these fragile items, we will pay refunds in the case of delay and compensation for loss, but not damage to the items.so if you want further advice please state clearly what RM service was used - then those who have the facts can advice you furtherEliTom



Thank you very much for your advice.

Yeah the £200 cover was before Royal Mail went private.
It was well wrapped and proof was sent over to them.

I can't see a light at the end of the tunnel for my brother getting his money back but he now uses a diffrent courier when sending parcels.
joewall33

Thank you very much for your advice. Yeah the £200 cover was before Royal … Thank you very much for your advice. Yeah the £200 cover was before Royal Mail went private.It was well wrapped and proof was sent over to them.I can't see a light at the end of the tunnel for my brother getting his money back but he now uses a diffrent courier when sending parcels.



even before Privatisation the Parcel Post / ParcelForce service was the same

maybe just a hard lesson learnt - always check what the insurance cover does cover.

and when sending anything that is breakable / fragile - firstly make sure it is correctly labeled as such and secondly double check that the insurance covers such articles.

At the end of the day it is your responsibility to ensure you have bought the correct product

EliTom
From my experience RM are an odd bunch to deal with, happy to break their own rules.

A couple of years ago I sold a PS3 Move kit on here, and sent it by recorded delivery. After the buyer never received it, I put the claim to RM, who simply refunded the cost of postage in stamps, instead of the £30 value and considered the matter closed. I remember challenging them and having to send atleast 3 letters with proof of value etc to convince them to compensate in full, which they eventually did.

I mentioned this at the post office where I'd posted it, who admitted RM worked in strange ways, and told me a of case a person sent an item worth £300 by just recorded delivery, when it failed to arrive he kicked up enough stink that they compensated him in full, even though he'd failed to send it by Special Delivery.

Upshot is to keep hammering at them, don't let them fob you off.
mudddy

From my experience RM are an odd bunch to deal with, happy to break their … From my experience RM are an odd bunch to deal with, happy to break their own rules.A couple of years ago I sold a PS3 Move kit on here, and sent it by recorded delivery. After the buyer never received it, I put the claim to RM, who simply refunded the cost of postage in stamps, instead of the £30 value and considered the matter closed. I remember challenging them and having to send atleast 3 letters with proof of value etc to convince them to compensate in full, which they eventually did. I mentioned this at the post office where I'd posted it, who admitted RM worked in strange ways, and told me a of case a person sent an item worth £300 by just recorded delivery, when it failed to arrive he kicked up enough stink that they compensated him in full, even though he'd failed to send it by Special Delivery. Upshot is to keep hammering at them, don't let them fob you off.



Yeah that's exactly what's happening.
Again thank you for your comment- Royal Mail don't seem to care when something is damaged.
joewall33

Yeah that's exactly what's happening.Again thank you for your comment- … Yeah that's exactly what's happening.Again thank you for your comment- Royal Mail don't seem to care when something is damaged.



but the T&Cs are very clear - ceramics and glass are not covered for breakage using Parcel Post

so unless OP can show that it was sent with a service that implicitly covered glass and ceramics then RM are correct in this case

EliTom
First things first, wind your neck in!

Secondly, what service did you actually use?

Was in RM Special Delivery or Parcelforce express48? Please be specific.
The Therapist

First things first, wind your neck in!Secondly, what service did you … First things first, wind your neck in!Secondly, what service did you actually use?Was in RM Special Delivery or Parcelforce express48? Please be specific.



and was it actually labeled as "FRAGILE"

when you can answer these questions then maybe - just maybe we can offer some advice

EliTom
elitom

and was it actually labeled as "FRAGILE"when you can answer these … and was it actually labeled as "FRAGILE"when you can answer these questions then maybe - just maybe we can offer some adviceEliTom



Yes it had fragile labeled tape on the box, the reason my brother paid insurance is when you send an item you have to tell the clerk what is being sent.

I wasn't with my brother when he sent it incase I get that thrown at me (no offence meant)
My guess at that is that he told the clerk and insurance was advised to take out OR my brother then asked to insure it.
After knowing what was being sent he should have been advised on the best action- isn't that someone's job, No?

Don't worry about it, he's not going to take it further it seems and is now using a different courier.

I was personally with him when he wrote out a reply and I had te terms and conditions on my Mac and he wrote out his letter literally working down in order of the terms and conditions.
Such as " for number 1.2 on your terms and conditions blah blah - please see photo 1 which shows items, photo 2 of how items were wrapped" etc..,,.

He didn't miss a beat and I have worked in the insurance field myself for years and I can't see a get out clause that Royal Mail can deny.

Lesson learnt, not using Royal Mail other then items worth less then £10.
The Therapist

First things first, wind your neck in!Secondly, what service did you … First things first, wind your neck in!Secondly, what service did you actually use?Was in RM Special Delivery or Parcelforce express48? Please be specific.



Question answered by someone else who shown respect and received respect.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

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