Rule regarding Parking in front of a driveway if no dipped kerb

51
Found 16th Mar 2015
My friend had his car towed away by council in London after he parked in front of a driveway. There were no parking restrictions on the road or a dipped kerb in front of the house. I don't have any photographic evidence with me but just curious on what the rules are regarding parking in front of someone's driveway? yes, there was a car parked but apparently there was space to drive down ( "partially blocking access " was the council's reason I think or something on those lines) . If someone needs to use driveway for parking then should they not have to pay the council to dip Kerb/ paint yellow line ? Apparently he thinks the decision cannot be appealed once you pay the towing fees .

Sorry if I have been a bit ambiguous on the details - but this kind of info is going to come in handy for myself in future so just thought I'd post it before the hukd experts thanks!
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I'd say it really depends on the dropped kerb. If there wasn't one or any restrictions then it's easy not to notice that you shouldn't park there, I've done it before and only realised there was a "driveway" when the owner asked how long I was going to be parking there!
Original Poster
Benjimoron

I'd say it really depends on the dropped kerb. If there wasn't one or any … I'd say it really depends on the dropped kerb. If there wasn't one or any restrictions then it's easy not to notice that you shouldn't park there, I've done it before and only realised there was a "driveway" when the owner asked how long I was going to be parking there!



That's what I thought too, but if the council acted on the request ( must have been by the home owner) then I am wondering there might be some valid reason to it? An cthe tow fee was close to £300 I think so it's a fair bit to lose especially if the rule is not clear
You're not allowed a driveway unless the kerb is lowered ?
A driveway is fairly obvious to see, dropped kerb or otherwise. If there's no wall and it's paved logic should tell an educated person that the house owner is more than likely going to stick a vehicle on it.
I recall my grandfather being made to pay the council to lower the kerb as he wasn't allowed to park the car in the garden, even though the kerb was only around 3" high in the first place, they spent about a week dropping it to around 1".

Highways Act 1980. Section 184, Sub-section 17.

There is no obstruction offence being committed if the driveway does not comply with the Highways Act, as the OP has described, there has been no offence committed here.
I'd say there are a few drivers out there who either don't, or can't, consider others when parking. Someone parked outside my house the other day, got out of their car and walked across my grass to the next door neighbour's house... I ask you!
I think the crux here is that a car was actually parked in the 'driveway' which your friend technically blocked in.
If there was no car parked there you wouldve been fine. I myself have parked in London when no car has been parked and it was not a dropped kerb and nothing has happened.
You're not allowed to drive across a pavement without a drop kerb (the construction of which will have included rebuilding the pavement to provide suitable protection to any underlying pipes/cables - including a reinforced concrete raft in some cases), and there are plenty of vehicles that sit rotting on driveways with a SORN notice so will never need access onto the highway, so it's only reasonable to assume that a normal kerb is an available parking space.
I think your friend has a good case to appeal the penalty. If he is prepared to make an appeal then tell him to get photographic evidence as a picture is far better than words.
From the sound of it, the homeowner should be fined for driving across a public path if there is no driveway, it can only be a driveway if it has a dropped kerb apparently.
I would definitely appeal it, sounds like a friend has called a friend etc......and hopes the fine will be paid with no comeback!
Once mounted the curb and crossed the path to park outside some shops on a motorcycle and a cop pulled me and threatened me with prosecution.
Banned
If the curb was not dropped, then no offence has taken place.

Your friend should appeal it.

It matters not whether there was a car in the driveway or not. In fact I would question how the car parked in the driveway without mounting the pavement first, as it is a pavement without a dropped kerb.
Curbed dropped or not, your friend shouldn't be parking outside someone's home. 90% of home owners own cars as well, it's considerate to let people park outside their own homes.
Dropped kerb or not, what kind of person purposely blocks someone in their drive? What if there was an emergency and that person needed to use their car?




try a site called pepipoo, it's the martin lewis of dropped kerb contraventions
please do keep us updated as this info will be handy to a lot of people
if there was a car in the drive then he was causing an obstruction whether the kirb was lowered or not. if there was no car in the drive then no obstruction was caused . my uncle's a traffic warden. I've had this conversation with him before . you won't have a leg to stand on I'm afraid
bo84gle

if there was a car in the drive then he was causing an obstruction … if there was a car in the drive then he was causing an obstruction whether the kirb was lowered or not. if there was no car in the drive then no obstruction was caused . my uncle's a traffic warden. I've had this conversation with him before . you won't have a leg to stand on I'm afraid


I understand the logic of your comment but can you ask your uncle exactly which bit of legislation (and if it is council specific throughout the country) he's referring to so that we can all clearly look up and understand the exact reason why it would be deemed an actual offence.

Edited by: "Toptrumpet" 16th Mar 2015
I always thought no dropped kerb no driveway. Shouldn't be mounting the kerb for a fake drive. Some ppl are too tight to pay for the kerb. If it mate was me I would take legal action on the owner of the #driveway# and the council...
gr8t1

Curbed dropped or not, your friend shouldn't be parking outside someone's … Curbed dropped or not, your friend shouldn't be parking outside someone's home. 90% of home owners own cars as well, it's considerate to let people park outside their own homes.


Pretty sure if u pay the relevant taxs/insurace etc unless there is a permit area u can legally park where u like? Or am I missing something?
Toptrumpet

I understand the logic of your comment but can you ask your uncle exactly … I understand the logic of your comment but can you ask your uncle exactly which bit of legislation (and if it is council specific throughout the country) he's referring to so that we can all clearly look up and understand the exact reason why it would be deemed an actual offence.

it's deemed an offense just as it would if the kerb was lowered .there's no law saying the kerb has to be lowered to get to your property
if the kerb is not dropped, then surely the owner is not allowed to drive his car into the drive anyway.
There is no law regarding kerb must be lowered.

And we actually have parking on half pavement with no dropped kerb. Well it has dropped kerb on both ends but not in between which also reminds me when I was taking my driving test in goodmays I saw parking box's on pavements with no dropped kerb except at end of the pavement.

And if op's "friend" knew it was a drive way and parked anyway then serves you right.


Edited by: "MR1123" 16th Mar 2015
Banned
iv got a same drive way with Massive 6 foot tall twin opening gates and some people have the cheek to park there.
I have a sign saying no parking too, but I don't mind my neighbour parking there if she has no space.
However my husband can slightly turn his car in all directions to get it out but I can't, I don't park mine in there tho.

next time your friends park make sure they don't block any kind of driveways, it's so simple. its like blocking some one in asda.
We haven't contacted council or anyone tho.
Has nobody here got access to the highway code?
Extract below from gov.uk/wai…247
my bold . The dropped kerb bit is just about wheelchair users. Dropped or rasied kerb - just is not part of the argument at all. You cannot go parking in places where people need to get access/egress from their property.

243

DO NOT stop or park:

near a school entrance
anywhere you would prevent access for Emergency Services
at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
on the approach to a level crossing/tramway crossing
opposite or within 10 metres (32 feet) of a junction, except in an authorised parking space
near the brow of a hill or hump bridge
opposite a traffic island or (if this would cause an obstruction) another parked vehicle
where you would force other traffic to enter a tram lane
where the kerb has been lowered to help wheelchair users and powered mobility vehicles
in front of an entrance to a property
EN1GMA

if the kerb is not dropped, then surely the owner is not allowed to drive … if the kerb is not dropped, then surely the owner is not allowed to drive his car into the drive anyway.



The area where I live there are a few houses with driveways, but no dropped kerb and they still cross the pavement to access it, and some have been like that for years!
Section 243 of the highway code is mostly advisory (usually denoted by DO NOT xxx).. Specific offences which can be prosecuted for are usually indicated by "MUST NOT do xxx"
See section 2 of the Highway code.. gov.uk/hig…ion
Crusty

Section 243 of the highway code is mostly advisory (usually denoted by DO … Section 243 of the highway code is mostly advisory (usually denoted by DO NOT xxx).. Specific offences which can be prosecuted for are usually indicated by "MUST NOT do xxx" See section 2 of the Highway code.. https://www.gov.uk/highway-code/introduction


But that is in reference to criminal law.
This parking offence may be used as evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts.
tardytortoise

But that is in reference to criminal law.This parking offence may be used … But that is in reference to criminal law.This parking offence may be used as evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts.



I spotted that myself... and support the ideal that any reasonable driver should adhere to the advisory "DO NOT" rules.. I guess the key word here is "MAY" be used as evidence.. rather than an absolute offence.
Your friend should have a good chance of being successful upon appeal. You do need the kerb to be lowered. From a quick search, a random two government websites stating this are Tameside:

http://www.tameside.gov.uk/kerbdropping

And Salford:

salford.gov.uk/dro…htm
pinkleponkle

A driveway is fairly obvious to see, dropped kerb or otherwise. If … A driveway is fairly obvious to see, dropped kerb or otherwise. If there's no wall and it's paved logic should tell an educated person that the house owner is more than likely going to stick a vehicle on it.



You'd think wouldn't you!
Regularly get blocked in, drive, dropped kerb and 2 cars parked on the drive a lot of the time, and still ignorant inconsiderate people think it's fine to park across it!
search google London council dropped kerbs and they all state it is an offence to drive over the pavement to park on a private property without a legally constructed vehicle crossover. that's Enfield, bromley etc. it has always been my understanding that no dropped kerb then no real driveway even if there is a car up the path as they have bumped over the kerb which is illegal, as is parking on/off the pavement (which most drivers do)
Original Poster
Wow that's a lot of responses . Still going through them . Can see a Clear divide here going by the opinions. I agree that it is definitely sensible to not park when there is a car parked inside . Also like someone pointed out what some drivers think as sufficient space to get your car out might not apply to others especially If you are elderly. But that does not convince me that it's ok to tow the car away. Many thanks to everyone who has joined this conversation - Very helpful responses ! I'll fwd this link to my friend so he can feel a bit hopefull
nitelighter

Pretty sure if u pay the relevant taxs/insurace etc unless there is a … Pretty sure if u pay the relevant taxs/insurace etc unless there is a permit area u can legally park where u like? Or am I missing something?


Where I come from its called common decency and consideration for others.
blkwhte

Wow that's a lot of responses . Still going through them . Can see a … Wow that's a lot of responses . Still going through them . Can see a Clear divide here going by the opinions. I agree that it is definitely sensible to not park when there is a car parked inside . Also like someone pointed out what some drivers think as sufficient space to get your car out might not apply to others especially If you are elderly. But that does not convince me that it's ok to tow the car away. Many thanks to everyone who has joined this conversation - Very helpful responses ! I'll fwd this link to my friend so he can feel a bit hopefull



You emailing yourself?
My understanding is that there is no issue if you park over a driveway with no dipped curb. This does change however if you are blocking a car in so I think the problem lies with the fact that a car was blocked in.
Yep causing an obstruction/access regardless of any other rule overrides it.
check consumeradvicegroup.com I think or if you search CAG it may come up. go to motoring section and post your question there. It's a very good site

my mum's road has to driveways without dropped kerbs for years. when permit parking was introduced the council added parking bays right in front of the driveways as it doesn't regard them as legal drives I'd assume. Personally I don't think the law is very clear on this matter.
Original Poster

Ha

MR1123

You emailing yourself?



Haha should have disguised it better right ?

On a more serious note it's definitely a friend who got caught out. I would have posted evidence photo here to get a more accurate response If it had been for myself .
blkwhte

HaHaha should have disguised it better right ? On a more serious note … HaHaha should have disguised it better right ? On a more serious note it's definitely a friend who got caught out. I would have posted evidence photo here to get a more accurate response If it had been for myself .



haha, i actually had someone called mark asking me for advice for his mate mark this morning on a sensitive issue! he just didn't get it when i emphasised your mate mark
Its not a "driveway" as there is no dropped kerb. Your friend has not committed an offence. The driver of the vehicle on the "driveway" has though. It is an offence to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle across the footpath if no provision for access (dropped kerb) has been put in place. Your friend should appeal the penalty, as there is no legal access that they were blocking.

IF there had been a dropped kerb, you are only committing an offence IF there is a vehicle already o the drive and you block it IN, preventing it from coming out. If there's no vehicle on the drive, you can block the driveway. This is because it's an offence to prevent access TO the highway (drive to road) but it's not an offence to prevent access FROM the highway (road to drive).
blkwhte

Wow that's a lot of responses . Still going through them . Can see a … Wow that's a lot of responses . Still going through them . Can see a Clear divide here going by the opinions. I agree that it is definitely sensible to not park when there is a car parked inside . Also like someone pointed out what some drivers think as sufficient space to get your car out might not apply to others especially If you are elderly. But that does not convince me that it's ok to tow the car away. Many thanks to everyone who has joined this conversation - Very helpful responses ! I'll fwd this link to my friend so he can feel a bit hopefull




Its common decency not to block someone's drive, whether there is a car there or not, just because you think they have sufficient space doesn't mean there actually is and age does not coming into it. problem is people to day just don't care where they park or what the consequences to others.
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